DRAFT counseling office Open, ask me anything!

[Dems Will Win]

After the Inauguration, Bush will start on reinstating the DRAFT. They already have the generals out, complaining about low recruitment and weak divisions. THe Skills Draft law is next, then in April or May, the GOP Congress will reinstate in the middle of some night.

If anyone has any questions, ask them here.

Who will be eligible:

Combat Draft: Men, to 25, but those who turn 20 in 2005 through 2008 will be especially vulnerable.

Skills Draft: Several Hundred Occupations possible, men and women, 18-34 (NO deferments)

Medical Draft: Several Hundred Occupations possible, men and women, 18-44 (NO deferments except "essential community service")

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05

AND IT'S '05!!



LOTS MORE INFO:
http://www.blatanttruth.org/draft.php

[Ian David]

1. My cousin is a Bush supporter with a 14 year old son

I warned him.

By the end of Bush's second term, he'll be about draft age.

[hang a left]

2. I read on at your link.

So do you believe that the Medical Skills and the Special Skills drafts will be the only ones?

[scarletlib]

3. Skills my friend will be whatever they decide they need

Truck driving is a skill. So it won't just be people with computer or language skills, etc.

[Dems Will Win]

9. That's correct. Here's a sample MOS list

Sample Military Occupational Specialty List

This MOS list ranges from “Basic Hygiene Equipment Operator” and Warehouse Clerk to Musician, Graphic Artist, Engineer and Computer Experts. It is given as a sample of the broad nature of a Military Occupational Specialty Code and would not be the final non-combat Skills Code that would be on a Skills Draft Registration card.

That will be longer, as it will be drafting for the Department of Homeland Security and the Pentagon. The list includes combat jobs (says for men only)

Taken from: http://www.marinemoms.us/USMC/usmc-mos.asp

U.S. Marine Corps MOS Listing
Personnel & Administration: Occupational Field 01
Specialty School Location
Administrative Clerk Camp Lejeune, NC
Unit Diary Clerk Camp Lejeune, NC
Personnel Clerk Camp Lejeune, NC
Postal Clerk Camp Lejeune, NC


Intelligence: Occupational Field 02
Specialty School Location
Intelligence Specialist Dam Neck, VA


Infantry: Occupational Field 03 (This occupation is for males only)
Specialty School Location
Rifleman Camp Pendleton, CA & Camp Lejeune, NC
Machine Gunner Camp Pendleton, CA & Camp Lejeune, NC
Mortar Man Camp Pendleton, CA & Camp Lejeune, NC
Assaultman Camp Pendleton, CA & Camp Lejeune, NC
Light Armored Vehicle Crewman Camp Pendleton, CA
Antitank Assault Mis Camp Pendleton, CA & Camp Lejeune, NC


Logistics: Occupational Field 04
Specialty School Location
Logistics/Embarkation Specialist Coronado, CA & Little Creek, VA
Maintenance Management Specialist Little Creek, VA
Air Delivery Specialist Ft. Benning, GA
Landing Support Specialist Camp Lejeune, NC


Field Artillery: Occupational Field 08 (This occupation is for males only)
Specialty School Location
Field Artillery Fire Controlman Ft. Sill, OK
Field Artillery Meteorological Crewman Ft. Sill, OK
Field Artillery Cannoneer Ft. Sill, OK
Fire Support Man Ft. Sill, OK
Field Artillery, Radar Operator Ft. Sill, OK


Utilities: Occupational Field 11
Specialty School Location
Refrigeration Mechanic Aberdeen, MD
Basic Hygiene Equipment Operator Camp Lejeune, NC
Basic Electrician Camp Lejeune, NC
Electrical Equipment Repair Specialist Camp Lejeune, NC
Fabric Repair Specialist Ft. Lee, VA


Engineer, Construction, Equipment & Shore Party: Occupational Field 13
Specialty School Location
Basic Combat Engineer Camp Lejeune, NC
Engineer Equipment Mechanic Ft. Leonard Wood, MO
Basic Metal Worker Aberdeen, MD
Engineer Equipment Operator Ft. Leonard Wood, MO
Engineer Assistant Ft. Leonard Wood, MO
Bulk Field Specialist Ft. Lee, VA


Printing & Reproduction: Occupational Field 15
Specialty School Location
Lithographer Ft. Belvoir, VA


Tank & Emphibian tractor: Occupational Field 18 (This occupation is for males only)
Specialty School Location
Tank Crewman Ft. Knox, KY
Assault Amphibian Crewman Camp Pendleton, CA


Ordnance: Occupational Field 21
Specialty School Location
Machinist Aberdeen, MD
Assault Amphibian Repairman Camp Pendleton, CA
Main Battle Tank Repairman Ft. Knox, KY
Small Arms Repair Aberdeen, MD
Electro-Optical Instrument Repair Aberdeen, MD
Light Armored Vehicle Repair Aberdeen, MD
Towed Artillery System Aberdeen, MD


Ammunition & Explosives Ordnance Disposal: Occupational Field 23
Specialty School Location
Ammunition Technician Redstone Arsenal, AL


Operational Communications: Occupational Field 23
Specialty School Location
ULCS Operational Maintainer 29 Palms, CA
Field Radio Operator 29 Palms, CA
Communications Center Operator 29 Palms, CA
Construction Wireman 29 Palms, CA
Ground MOB For SATCOM Terminal Operator 29 Palms, CA
High Frequency Communications central Operator 29 Palms, CA
Multi-Channel Equipment Operator 29 Palms, CA
Field Wireman 29 Palms, CA
Fleet SATCOM Terminal Operator 29 Palms, CA


Signal Intelligence/Ground Electronic Warefare: Occupational Field 26
Specialty School Location
Basic Electronic Intelligence Operational Analysis Pensacola, FL


Data/Communications Maintenance: Occupational Field 28
Specialty School Location
Ground Radar Repair 29 Palms, CA
Radio Technician 29 Palms, CA
Telephone Technician 29 Palms, CA
Cable Systems Technician 29 Palms, CA
PC Tact Office Machine Technician 29 Palms, CA
Electronic Switching Equipment Technician 29 Palms, CA
Multi Channel Equipment repair 29 Palms, CA
Test Measures/Diagnostic Equipment Repair Albany, GA
Communications Security Equipment Repair 29 Palms, CA
Artillery Electronic Systems Repair 29 Palms, CA
Counter Mortar Radar Repair 29 Palms, CA


Supply Administrations & Operations: Occupational Field 30
Specialty School Location
Supply Administrations & Operations Clerk Camp Lejeune, NC
Basic Packing Specialist Albany, NY
Warehouse Clerk Barstow, CA & Albany, GA


Transportation: Occupational Field 31
Specialty School Location
Traffic Management Specialist Ft. Eustis, VA


Food Service: Occupational Field 33
Specialty School Location
Basic Food Service Specialist Ft. Lee, VA
Subsistence Supply Clerk Ft. Lee, VA


Auditing, Finance & Accounting: Occupational Field 34
Specialty School Location
Disbursing Technician Camp Lejeune, NC
Fiscal Budget Technician Camp Lejeune, NC


Motor Transport: Occupational Field 35
Specialty School Location
Automotive Organizational Maintenance Camp Lejeune, NC
Logistics Vehicle Operator Ft. Leonard Wood, MO
Body Repair Mechanic Aberdeen, MD
Motor Vehicle Operator Ft. Leonard Wood, MO
Vehicle Recovery Operator Ft. Leonard Wood, MO


Data Systems: Occupational Field 40
Specialty School Location
ADA Programing Quantico, VA
Small Computer Systems Specialist Quantico, VA


Public Affairs: Occupational Field 43
Specialty School Location
Combat Correspondent Ft. Meade, MD


Legal Services: Occupational Field 44
Specialty School Location
Legal Services Specialist Camp Lejeune, NC


Training & Audio-Visual Support: Occupational Field 46
Specialty School Location
Combat Visual Information Equipment Specialist Pensacola, FL
Graphics Specialist Ft. Meade, MD
Combat Photographic Specialist Pensacola, FL
Combat/Motion Media Specialist Pensacola, FL


Band: Occupational Field 55
Specialty School Location
Drum & Bugle Corps Washington, DC
Music, Basic Little Creek, VA
Music, Intermediate Little Creek, VA
Music, Assistant Bandleader Little Creek, VA


Nuclear, Biological & chemical (NBC): Occupational Field 57
Specialty School Location
NBC Defense Specialist Ft. Leonard Wood, MO


Military Police & Corrections: Occupational Field 58
Specialty School Location
Law Enforcement (Military Police) Ft. Leonard Wood, MO


Electronics Maintenance: Occupational Field 59
Specialty School Location
Aviation Radio Repairer 29 Palms, CA
Tactical Air Operations Central Technician 29 Palms, CA
Tactical Data Communications Central Technician 29 Palms, CA
Tactical Air Command Central Repairer 29 Palms, CA
Tactical Data Communications Central Repairer 29 Palms, CA
Aviation Radar Repairer 29 Palms, CA
Marine Air Traffic Control Unit Navigational Aids Technician Pensacola, FL
Marine Air Traffic Control Unit Communications Technician Pensacola, FL
Marine Air Traffic Control Unit Radar Technician Millington, TN
Marine Air Traffic Control Unit Navigational Aids Repair Millington, TN
Marine Air Traffic Control Unit Radar Repairer Millington, TN
Marine Air Traffic Control Unit Communications Repairer Millington, TN
Data Systems Technician Mare Island, CA
Tactical General Purpose Computer 29 Palms, CA
SUR AIR Defense Systems Acquisition Technician Redstone Arsenal, AL
SUR AIR Defense Systems Fire Control Technician Redstone Arsenal, AL


Aircraft Maintenance: Occupational Field 60/61
Specialty School Location
Aviation Maintenance Administration Meridian, MS
Aviation Safety Equipment Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Marine Cryogenics Equipment Operators Cherry Point, NC
Aircraft Mechanic KC-130 Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Mechanic F/A-18 Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Power Plants Mechanic Pensacola, FL
KC-130 Aircraft Flight Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Hydraulic Airframe Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Structure Airframe Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Flight Equipment Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Maintenance GSE M/R Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Intermediate Level Structure Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Intermediate Level hydraulic/Pneumatic Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Helicopter Mechanic New River, NC & Camp Pendleton, CA
Helicopter Power Plant Mechanical Technician Pensacola, FL
Helicopter Power Plant Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Helicopter Dynamic Comp Mechanic New River, NC
Helicopter Hydraulic/Pneumatic Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Helicopter Structure Mechanic Pensacola, FL
Helicopter Structure Mechanic U/AH Pensacola, FL
CH-46 Crew Chief Pensacola, FL
CH-53 Crew Chief Pensacola, FL
UH-1N Crew Chief Pensacola, FL


Avionics: Occupational Field 63/64
Specialty School Location
A/C Comm/Nav Radar Systems Pensacola, FL
A/C Comm/Nav/Wpns Systems Pensacola, FL
A/C Comm/Nav/Wpns Pensacola, FL
A/C Comm/Nav Electronics Pensacola, FL
A/C Elec Sys Tech KC Pensacola, FL
A/C Elec/Sys Tech F Pensacola, FL
A/C EleCntrmrs Systems Pensacola, FL
A/C Comm/Nav Sys Technician Pensacola, FL
A/C Nav Sys Tech IFF Pensacola, FL
Aviation Elec Micro-Miniature Pensacola, FL
A/C Elec/Inst Flight Counter Pensacola, FL
A/CFlt Tech Helo/OV Pensacola, FL
Aviation Test Set Tech IMA Pensacola, FL
Radar Test Stat/Rad Pensacola, FL
A/C Internal Nav Systems Pensacola, FL
Hybrid Test Set Technician Pensacola, FL
A/C Fwd Looking Rad Pensacola, FL
Consol Auto Sup Systems Pensacola, FL
A/C Elec Equipment Tester Pensacola, FL
A/C Elec Counter Systems Pensacola, FL
Aviation Precision Measurement Albany, GA
Aviation Meteorological Electronics Pensacola, FL
Computer Sys Tech DP Great Lakes, GA


Aviation Ordnance: Occupational Field 65
Specialty School Location
Aviation Ordnance Ammo Technician Pensacola, FL
Aviation Ordnance Equipment Repairman Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Ordnance Technician Pensacola, FL


Aviation Supply: Occupational Field 66
Specialty School Location
Aviation Supply Clerk Meridian, MS
Auto Information Systems Computer Operator Meridian, MS


Weather Service: Occupational Field 68
Specialty School Location
Weather Observer Kessler AFB, MD


Airfield Services: Occupational Field 70
Specialty School Location
Aviation Operations Specialist Meridian, MS
Aircraft Recovery Specialist Pensacola, FL
Aircraft Firefighting/Rescue Goodfellow AFB, TX


Air Traffic Control/Air Control/Air Support/Anti-Air Warfare: Occupational Field 72
Specialty School Location
Air Control Electronics 29 Palms, CA
*Air Support Operations Operator 29 Palms, CA
Air Traffic Controller Pensacola, FL
HAWK Missile Systems Operator Ft. Bliss, TX
LAAD Gunner Ft. Bliss, TX


Enlisted Flight Crews: Occupational Field 73
Specialty School Location
First Navigator Pensacola, FL
Airborne Radio Operator Pensacola, FL

[leftchick]

16. How about Banking and Finance?

I would LOVE to see my bushbot college repuke nephew majoring in finance be drafted! I really, truly would!

[Dems Will Win]

18. Prime Clerk material at least

Plus anyone can qualify for Basic Hygiene Equipment Operator (latrine orderly)

[leftchick]

24. lol!

I would LOVE for that little prick to get latrine duty! :)

[Occulus]

48. Postal clerk?

Fucking wonderful. That's ME.

edited to add: I'm almost 30, and this scares the living piss out of me. Holyfuckingshit. I'm known to be a hard worker, too. Fuck.

Does being known to be gay help me here at all?

[Dems Will Win]

65. No, gay is OK in the Skills and Medical Drafts

And there are no Medical Deferments

Don't register if they call the skills draft. Let them find you. If they do, then you can register if you want with zero consequences.

Meanwhile, you might live to be 35 and then you're home-free.

[benburch]

4. What self-inflicted injuries would disqualify one from the draft?

Would fake needle tracks (and a few ounces of poppy seeds eaten the day before the physical) do the job?

[Dems Will Win]

6. Doubt it that it would get you a Med Deferment

The Draft Board and then the regional Appeals Board make the final decision on deferments and they are conservative in most places.

Probably figure the Army can straighten you out.

[benburch]

8. So, what might work?

Hepatitis-B Vaccine makes you test positive henceforth. Is Hep-B an disqualifying illness?

[Dems Will Win]

10. Yikes! Let's slow down.

How old are you first?

[benburch]

Oh, I am an old fart.

I am thinking about kids and other draftable people I know.

If having the Hep-B vaccine series, and therefore testing positive for Hep-B, is sufficient to keep you out, then I want to spread the word.

I think we need to do the maximum possible to help people evade this draft.

[Dems Will Win]

23. Still dubious

Favorites in the 60s were back and psych problems. Copius teenage Medical records were the best way out.

BTW, for those who support Bush's conquest agenda, please disregard this thread. This thread is only for those who do not believe they should die to make the world safe for Halliburton.

[Dems Will Win]

17. Don't forget only 20-year olds will likely ever be called up

for combat. Plus there is the lottery. 2/3 will get out for that. The lottery comes before you get your exam notice, BTW.

I got a CO in Vietnam days and then I pulled a number over 300, too high to ever be called.

[leesa]

57. Only means you have antibody...not the disease.

[American Tragedy]

55. My dad became so desperate that he collaborated with a physician

who was willing to sign a letter stating that he had chronic migraine headaches. Since my father was a body builder and was visibly in excellent condition, there were very few crippling diseases of which he could credibly claim to suffer.

Astoundingly, it worked.

[OneTwentyoNine]

14. You need to call Ted Nugent for full details....

He knows first hand how to beat the system and then become a rough tough gun nut.

[queerart]

25. That Was Funny As Hell................

And Ohhhhhhhhh... soooooooo True!

[Kingshakabobo]

45. I didn't know that about Nugent. Haha, one of the biggest Chickenhawks

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17430



Ted Nugent

The image says it all - all image: our hero stands in combat attire, equipped with not just one, but two phallic symbols. Do we detect a hint of insecurity regarding manhood here? Standing in front of a band of cartoon brothers, he rests his boot on Saddam Hussein’s posterior. And yes, that flag is mounted on a spear. And yes, there is blood dripping from the tip of the spear. Mr. Nugent claims to be drug free, but if anyone has ever everdosed on bloodthirsty jingoism, it’s him. Born in 1948, there’s no way this bad boy would have missed a chance to kill for his country, right?

According to a widely-circulated account which we’ve never seen refuted, here’s how Mr. Nugent dodged the draft. "He claims that 30 days before his draft board physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last 10 days, he ingested nothing but Vienna sausages and Pepsi; and a week before his physical, he stopped using bathrooms altogether, virtually living inside pants caked with his own excrement, stained by his urine. That spectacle won Nugent a deferment, he says. ‘... but if I would have gone over there, I'd have been killed, or I'd have killed, or I'd killed all the hippies in the foxholes...I would have killed everybody.’” -- Detroit Free Press Magazine, July 15, 1990

Our thanks to “a bitter Gulf War veteran” for the straight dope on this straight dope.

[hang a left]

5. There is a rumor going around here that some expect some type

of pull out from Iraq in February. I don't believe that for a minute unless it is a faux pull out until some type of MIHOP Gulf of Tonkin incident. Anyway...My question is

Where do you think these new inductees will be sent?

[Dems Will Win]

7. There will likely be 200-300,000 drafted in 2005

They will mostly go to Iraq and Afghanistan, although some will relieve units stationed in Germany and South Korea.

By February, I expect raids into Syria by IRaqi and American forces, then a full-scale invasion in the fall. The first draftees will be in Iraq for the 2006 deployment as they have very short training times nowadays.

[Ian David]

12. What about gay people?

Can we find America suddenly inflicted by a "Gay Plague" that only infects men of draft age?

[OneTwentyoNine]

21. Good idea,Repukes and their ilk don't want gays in the military...

And I'm sure gays don't want any part of Bushits illegal invasion. Sounds like a match.

[Dems Will Win]

27. Sorry, Don't Ask, Don't Tell

At the exam, they won't ask if you are gay this time around...

[Geek_Girl]

96. what if they don't ask

But you say hey I'm gay and tell them anyways.

[Geek_Girl]

97. In February of this year?

We'll be invading Syria? That's like 2 weeks away. When will the first draft happen?

[Dems Will Win]

11. Love your handle: HANG A LEFT

LOL!

[leftchick]

20. This will KILL that rumor.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1153006

The Pentagon is planning an extended (permanent) stay in Iraq. People need to look at what the US military is doing. Not wtf they say!

[alfredo]

53. If they are pulling out of Iraq it is so they

can invade Iran.

[hang a left]

13. Next question

How do you think that this will be sold to the American public?

[Dems Will Win]

15. They will pass it in the middle of the night

The law is already there, just a 1-page trigger resolution is needed. First, by March do expect Skills Draft legislation that will be sold as "we will never need this". One month later, after the trigger is passed activating all drafts, you will hear Frist say "we had to pass it. We're not going to cut and run from Iraq. We have a real war there now."

It will be a fait accompli. And once you start drafting, expect it to last for several years.

[Hippo_Tron]

91. I wonder if senate rules will allow a fillibuster after Frist is done

But once the draft is passed there will be riots in the streets, it will be the 60's all over again.

[neweurope]

19. Another MIHOP?

Why are you hearing about smallpox and Anthrax again?


-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Hippo_Tron]

92. That's my only guess, another 9/11 is the only way it will happen

At least a full-scale draft anyway, special skills is a different story.

[murray hill farm]

22. So...

my daughter is 39 and an elementary school nurse..is she vulnerable? I already have one son in Iraq...i dont want another child to be drafted and sent also...what do you think the chances are that my daughter would be drafted into the skills group?

[Dems Will Win]

26. Actually, they will have a Medical Draft, up to age 44

Nurse is the number #1 shortage in the whole military. There is already a "contingency plan" to draft 36,000 doctors and nurses (NYT)

But if she does not register for the Medical Draft when she is supposed to, then hope she makes it to age 45 alive, she is home free.

At least under current planned legislation.

Welcome to BushWorld.

[Ian David]

28. Oh, god. I could get called up on a Propaganda draft

Public Relations and Marketing experience, don't you know.

Someone needs to write all the truth-speak and such.

I promise, that if I am drafted, I will do my best to write the most ineffective propaganda ever unleashed upon the American public.

[Dems Will Win]

29. This area will no doubt be very big in the new BushWorld

[Eye_on_prize]

37. Well, we've been wondering when *bush would come up with a "Jobs Program"

now we've finally got the Rethugs version of one. yikes!!!

be careful what you ask for.:wtf: :grr: :puke:

[Ian David]

30. That gives me an idea. What if we all failed the aptitude tests?

Would that help?

Fail the aptitude tests... collapse during the physical?

I think I recall someone deliberately trying to fail the psych tests and then being surprised when they thought he was fine. (I think it was Isaac Asimov, but I could be wrong).

[strategery blunder]

77. Bad idea...they will just make you a grunt.

So saith my friendly local Vietnam vet.

Best chance for me is to go to the draft board with a walking stick instead of my glasses. They don't need to know that my 20/300 vision is correctible---and when asked for medical records, I'll say that I can't afford them. Which is perfectly plausible in Bu$h*'s Amerikkka.

[stellanoir]

31. does anyone know

whether or not Quakers will still be exempt from the draft?

[Dems Will Win]

33. Yes, I am a CO myself

I was Ethical Culture, but there are several religions that can do it--if you get a liberal draft board. Quakers are included.

[H2O Man]

34. For more on CO

read: http://h2oman.blogspot.com

[tomkertes]

32. For updates on the draft issue: Visit DailyDraftDispatch.org

http://dailydraftdispatch.org

[Ian David]

36. I got my draftboard application in the mail today

Along with the application came a little booklet that listed some of the justifications for a draft deferment.

Three of the ways to avoid the draft was listed as "Ministers of Religion" and "Ministerial Students" and "Student Postponement."
http://www.sss.gov/sssyou/sssyou.htm

This is troubling.

First of all, a new draft may likely not allow a student postponement anymore. But "Ministerial Students" is in a seperate category from just plain "student." Does this leave the door open to special status for students enrolled at Oral Roberts University or seminaries?

As for Ministers of Religion...

http://www.sss.gov/classif.htm

Classifications

Men are not classified now. Classification is the process of determining who is available for military service and who is deferred or exempted. Classifications are based on each individual registrant's circumstances and beliefs. A classification program would go into effect when Congress and the President decide to resume a draft. Then, men who are qualified for induction would have the opportunity to file a claim for exemptions, deferments, and postponements from military service. Here is a list of some, though not all, classifications and what they mean:

1-A - available immediately for military service.
1-O Conscientious Objector- conscientiously opposed to both types (combatant and non-combatant) of military training and service - fulfills his service obligation as a civilian alternative service worker.
1-A-O Conscientious Objector - conscientiously opposed to training and military service requiring the use of arms - fulfills his service obligation in a noncombatant position within the military.
2-D Ministerial Students - deferred from military service.
3-A Hardship Deferment - deferred from military service because service would cause hardship upon his family.
4-C Alien or Dual National - sometimes exempt from military service.
4-D Ministers of Religion - exempted from military service.

Student Postponements - a college student may have his induction postponed until he finishes the current semester or, if a senior, the end of the academic year. A high school student may have his induction postponed until he graduates or until he reaches age 20. Appealing a Classification - A man may appeal his classification to a Selective Service Appeal Board.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=site:www.sss.gov+%22Ministers+of+Religion%22


Also, this is important:

The same applies if a person who is entitled to a complete draft exemption is improperly denied exemption, or given only a partial exemption, by the Selective Service. For example, ministers of religion are supposedly exempt from the draft. They don’t have to perform any kind of military or civilian service so long as they stay in their ministerial jobs. Usually, the kind of ministers who apply for the ministerial exemption are the ministers, rabbis and imams who conduct worship services in churches, synagogues and mosques. This is the image which springs most readily to mind when one thinks of a minister of religion.

However, sometimes the Selective Service has wrongfully denied ministerial exemptions to legitimate ministers on the grounds that the ministers did their work in an unconventional way. The best examples of this kind of situation involve the members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious group. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses’ theology, every JW member is a minister of the gospel, responsible for bringing the good news of the gospel to the unsaved. Many readers may have encountered JW members who were doing their missionary rounds.

During the draft, every JW member considered himself eligible for the ministerial exemption, but the Selective Service has often been hostile and suspicious toward such claims. For one thing, Jehovah’s Witnesses are an unpopular group precisely because of their evangelistic practices, as well as their denunciation of flag-salutes and of other religions (especially Catholicism). For another thing, the Selective Service usually thought of “ministers” in accordance with the establishment paradigm of leaders who supervise worship services each week. And a final consideration provoking suspicion of the Jehovah’s WItnesses was the fact that JWs, who are rarely wealthy and often not even middle-class, support themselves by secular employment, rather then drawing their income from preaching the gospel.

Often, Jehovah’s Witnesses were were ordered by the Selective Service either to serve in the military, or to perform civilian alternative service as conscientious objectors. When Witnesses refused to do the duties assigned them, maintaining that they were entitled to a full draft exemption as ministers, then prosecution would result. In some cases, Witnesses went to prison, but there were some enlightened court decisions which recognized the ministerial status of at least some Witnesses. Some judges realized that being a minister doesn’t necessarily mean that you get your income from preaching the gospel-under that definition the apostle Paul, who was a tentmaker, would not qualify as a minister. Leading weekly worship services, enlightened judges recognized, was not the only task of ministers; ministrial duties included missionary work. Finally, the enlightened judges recognized that the ministerial exemption should be applied to members of unconventional religions as well as members of mainstream religions, or else the U. S. would be discriminating against unpopular religious groups, which would be unconstitutional.

http://nd.essortment.com/selectiveservic_roro.htm

If anyone is interested in becoming a minister, priest, rabbi, imam, or whatever (for free):

The Universal Life Church

You can become a legally ordained minister, instantly, online, at this website. The Universal Life Church is totally non-denominational, interfaith and welcomes all religions. After you fill out the ordination form, you will receive a pop-up instant credential, which serves as your receipt of your ordination. Print it immediately.

As a ULC (Universal Life Church) minister, you can officiate one wedding ceremony or you can make weddings, funerals, baptisms, house blessings, etc. your business. You can even start your own ministry. The Universal Life Church is interfaith and non-denominational.

We have, online, free training for ministers, an online, one-year seminary program, where you can receive a diploma to enhance your knowledge and your credibility, and a monk program.

While you don’t have to purchase anything from the ULC to gain the legal benefits, entitlements and respect, we do offer a wide variety of materials to assist you in your ministry and/or business.

More:
http://www.ulc.org/

On a side note:

More blatant forms of draft-dodging included feigning illness (including homosexuality, which was then considered a mental illness), self-mutilation (so as to render oneself unfit for service), and fleeing the country. Canada was a favorite draft-dodger destination in the Vietnam era, although the tightening of Canadian immigration laws since that time may make Canada a less welcome haven for American draft-dodgers today. Sweden, which maintained neutrality during the Cold War, was another favorite destination.

The respectability of draft-dodging may be illustrated by enumerating some of the prominent people who engaged in it. Grover Cleveland, future U. S. President, hired a substitute to fight in his place during the Civil War (hiring substitutes, or paying a “commutation fee,” was an old method of getting exempt from the draft, but such an option is not available under current draft laws). George Wallace bravely served in many bombing runs over Japan during World War II, but finally Wallace decided he wasn’t going to fly any more raids. Wallace received a discharge based on alleged mental illness. Whether this counts as draft-dodging or simple war-weariness is hard to tell. Dan Quayle (future Vice-President) got into the Indiana National Guard, which was never sent abroad even though the Vietnam War was going on (the President now has the power to deploy National Guard units abroad, which contradicts a long-standing Constitutional tradition). The current President of the U. S., George W. Bush, also had a stint in the Texas National Guard during Vietnam, although presumably the President would deny having dodged the draft. Former President William Clinton took various available options to keep himself from going to Vietnam while at the same time preserving his “political viability.”

From:
http://nd.essortment.com/selectiveservic_roro.htm

[No Exit]

35. When do we take to the streets screaming HELL NO WE WON'T GO

and 1-2-3-4, WE DON'T WANT YOUR RICH MAN'S WAR!

The day they revive the draft is the day all hell should break loose.

[masaka___]

87. Refuse!

> The day they revive the draft is the day all hell should break loose.

That's the TRUTH!

[Eye_on_prize]

38. 2 Questions: #1 does "mental illness" = deferment? for example, a 20 year-

#1 (cont'd) ..old male who has a "bipolar episode", flips out a little in public, is hospitalized for a couple of weeks, goes on meds, becomes "stabilized". Would having such an episode in one's medical records preclude being drafted?

#2 About gay deferments and "don't ask don't tell". What if the potential draftee "tells all" anyway, says he's way-queer, that he just doesn't want to be in a situations where he's always getting turned-on in showers with other naked men, etc., and kinda goes off on this during induction process? Any chance this would kick in a deferment of any kind? When someone "tells" wouldn't the "don't ask, don't tell" rule be breached and go out the window? What happens in these cases, do you know?

[Dems Will Win]

43. We don't really know about the gay deferment in a new draft psych exam

Volunteers never tell. It could work, but in a conservative area, if they know you and you're not really gay, forget it. We'll have to see how it shakes out in reality. the Draft Board decides.

Bipolar--yes! If you can prove you have episodes and are on meds, you will get a deferment.

Next question?

[LibertyorDeath]

39. How confident are you in this

"then in April or May, the GOP Congress will reinstate in the middle of some night"

[clem_c_rock]

40. Are you doubting there will be a draft?

[LibertyorDeath]

41. No all signs point to a Draft it was the April May time line I was

asking about. Should have been clearer.

[Dems Will Win]

42. On March 31, 2005 the SSS reports it is ready to draft within 75 days

But the real reason is they have to write and pass the Skills Draft legislation and they are finishing up designing the compliance cards everyone under 35 will have to fill out at the local Post Office.

It will all be done by April 1, so watch the April Fool (and every other month) reinstate at that time.

It's simply the earliest possible moment they can call it, without having to go back and then try to pass the Skills Draft legislation with the draft going. Too hard.

They'll pass the Skills Draft Law first in March then everything will be ready.

[LibertyorDeath]

47. Thanks for all the info..

[Geek_Girl]

99. I have a question

Do you have to fill out the compiance card? What happens if you don't?

[ProgressiveConn]

44. There can be no draft.

A draft will mean civil war. There will be no draft.

[H2O Man]

46. That's a pretty strong

statement. I do not think there is anything to indicate that it is true.

[ProgressiveConn]

49. Your reply is expected.

So how do you think the draft will go over in Detroit or Newark? The realization of what the neo-con agenda has always been will fall upon the people of America. I'm sure you know some Bush supporters so enthralled in the New-Republican cult of misinformation and intentional ignorance that they have all but given up an attempt at ideological Independence.

That said there can never be a draft because it would instantly undo all of the neo-con's "progress." People would see them for who they are and would refuse to put up with it. This is one thing that they cant put up a media smokescreen to cover. When kids are drafted people notice. It would instantly energize the Democratic base while putting the finishing touches on the death of the moderate wing of the Republican party.

[H2O Man]

51. Oh, no need to worry.

I'll be glad to discuss this.

Now, you said, "A draft will mean a civil war." When asked to explain, you respond with, "So how do you think the draft will go over in Detroit or Newark?"

I would imagine that a draft will go over in Detroit and Newark about the same as it will go over in Chicago or Los Angeles. I suspect that most people will be upset; some will test the system with CO cases; others will flee the country, or go underground. But most will be drafted, and there is little reason to think that this will change the political reality in America today.

From history, we know that the military draft has always been somewhat unpopular, but has also always provided the military with all the soldiers needed.

From history, we know that a draft has never resulted in anything close to "civil war." During WW1, when there were some draft riots, the population was in an entirely different set of circumstances; the riots were not close to "civil war," however.

From history, we know that this country has only had one Civil war, and that the circumstances surrounding the upcoming draft are not remotely close to those.

We also know that young people in the USA are not remotely close to as organized as their counterparts in the late 1960s and early 1970s. There is no evidence that young people today have the organizational ability or the discipline to stand up for themselves. The most organized are the rich kids looking to get a career on Wall Street, and the gang members who will be doing factory work in the prison system. Young people will depend on their parents to save them.

So tell me about your "civil war"?

[ProgressiveConn]

59. From History

We know that specific events or series of events trigger waves and counterwaves of the liberalization process. I believe that if the neo-con administration starts drafting people you will see the start of a significant shift towards liberalization which will continue for several decades while we "try to fix" what was done. Only to be met with a counter wave within decades. It would be just the wakeup call the US needs. Which is why it will never happen. Bushco has a good thing going. Why ruin it?

I also think you might very well misunderstand me with the term civil war. You shouldn't think anything like the civil war in our past.

American History gives us more than just the era of hippies as a guide. Think a little Hartford 1814 combined with a lot of 1919 Chicagos. But again this is pointless cause he would never ruin what he has going for him by starting to draft his followers children.

[H2O Man]

61. You are correct

that I mean "civil war" by the term "civil war." And there is nothing that indicates that there is any chance of civil war being a consequence of the draft being instituted. Rather than dream of things that have zero chance of occuring, young people should wake up and begin to explore what CO means. CO has a history, has worked in the past, and will work again. And it offers the country an option of healing.

[ProgressiveConn]

67. Nope.

I'm not a pacifist. Anyone who tells me "you either kill who I tell you to kill or you go to jail" is someone who is trying to get me to take innocent life thus they become my enemy.

As for the idea that civil war must be an organized war between psuedo states is silly to me. I think current warfare theory has proven that an outdated concept.

[H2O Man]

72. Good luck to you!

I don't think you have an understanding of concepts such as CO or civil war, but I wish you the best.

[ProgressiveConn]

80. I fully understand.

I just wont be even attempting to go the CO route. When someone tries to conscript me they have declared war on my person and I shall fight back with all means necessary.

Very Simple.

[H2O Man]

81. No problem.

People who say that rarely follow through. Those who do present no problem to the system. They make it easier for the system to discredit people who are brave enough to actually stand up and try to change the system.

[OutsourceBush]

58. You underestimate the Neo-Con-Artists

They will do whatever it takes. Another 911? You name it. They will do whatever it takes as they always do.

[Dems Will Win]

63. To Progressive Conn

"That said there can never be a draft because it would instantly undo all of the neo-con's "progress." People would see them for who they are and would refuse to put up with it. "

This is way off. The beo-cons are in power for four more years--what do they care?

Besides, they have a plan to take Syria and the oilfields of Iran and would clearly need the draft for that--not to mention the 2006 Iraq deployment. They don't have a choice given their agendas, hidden and otherwise.

[ProgressiveConn]

68. I think it more likely.

That the talk of Syria and Iran is nothing more than posturing. I've said for a couple years now that the only way we will get a draft is if there is a hardline revolution in Arabia. The political climate will become increasingly hostile to the Iraqi invasion over the next four years making an invasion of either country nearly impossible.

[Occulus]

50. Hi H2O Man!

Been a while since I've seen you post... is there any wisdom of your own you would like to impart here?

I'm a postal worker, and I noticed in a post above (the list of "special skills" candidates) that postal clerks are on the list. Well, that's me. How would they do this? Would I just go to work one day and find out that I have to enlist or lose my job? Would they have someone there to 'escort' me somewhere as a Special Skills draftee?

Would they even have to notify me or anyone else in advance at all?

[H2O Man]

52. Hello!

Dems Will Win has the best information on the administration's plan, which is far broader than the draft of the Vietnam era. It sounds like you are familiar with it.

Towards the end of 2005, the administration will inform the country that we have reached a crisis point in the war on terrorism. They will announce a "fairer" form of military conscription, which will place upper-middle class young adults into computer/domestic positions. The front lines will, as always, be the middle- to lower-income people.

Do not expect any "advance notice." Advance notice carries with it the implication that you could organize to resist the draft. It won't happen.

Instead, begin today. Learn about CO status. It does not require a person to be identified as "religious." Dems Will Win is always a great source of information on this. Also, go to my blog for further information. I will be running a series of articles on how to avoid being drafted.

[Dems Will Win]

64. They will authorize either a Combat Draft with a skills draft

or just a medical and skills draft without a combat draft. But it looks like all three to me.

30 days after authorization of the Skills or Medical Draft you will be required to REGISTER at the local Post Office on a card that will have an information sheet with several hundred jobs and their number code. You must "self-declare" all your skills, not just your primary one.

If you want to make Rumsfeld's job easier, REGISTER when they ask you to within the 30 days. Otherwise don't and see what happens. They may never find you in time before you're too old.

[clem_c_rock]

74. It didn't mean civil war in Vietnam or Korea

This country is so full of knuckle draggers that would believe the world is flat if you told them it was.

All you have to do is keep pounding the idea that we're under attack from terrorist and they will see the need for a draft.

Sh**, look how many DU'ers still buy this idea that the majority of Muslims are extremist.

[PaDem]

83. Never "Misunderestimate" the ability of this administration......

to sell something like this to the public. These people are masters at framing an obvious pile of crap like this in a manner in which they can draw a majority of support from "the folks".

[sakabatou]

54. So...

You will be drafted even if you get a deferment? Aw, hell no!

But, I wonder what this'll get me, if I do become drafted:
Acute tendonitis in both knees
Acute Anxiety disorder
(Wierd intestine thing, where it the intestines twist and knot)

[Dems Will Win]

71. There are no med deferments in the Skills or Medical Drafts

Outside of total disability. Only Essential Community Service for like country doctors is allowed.

Also Divinity students all get off

[conflictgirl]

56. Which specific skills, besides medical ones, are part of the skills draft?

I am at risk as being about to graduate from a social work program? What about my DH who works in computers?

Is there a master list somewhere?

[Dems Will Win]

66. That's what they are making right now, the Master List

But it will include everything from musician to toilet cleaner to computer programmer. Social Worker might get off, who knows. But there are the lowly jobs everyone will qualify for.

ITS CALLED COMMUNISM, FOLKS. CORPORATIST COMMUNISM.

[mrbassman03]

60. My brother and I have the same birthday, but different years...

Does that mean we are both automatically drafted if the date comes up? I turn 20 in 2005 and he turns 20 in 2007. Both in Feb.

[Dems Will Win]

62. No each year has a different lottery.

So you would have a different number outside of a wacky coincidence.

[mrbassman03]

73. Great, thanks for the info! n/t

[progressivebydesign]

69. Is this why Bush is saying that the troops in Iraq can come home "soon'?

So they are being replaced by 20 year old cannon fodder?

[clem_c_rock]

70. A typical MoveOn/MMoore person will always carry this argument::

"A draft would political suicide to impose a draft."

Now, I'm here to learn, and one question I have is, if the draft is political suicide, how did they pass it in the Vietnam days? A faked Gulf of Tonkin incident does not seem it would carry enough public shock that a draft would be issued just on those grounds. If a draft passed then, it seems the current situation would be enough to get one going as well. Sure, the public outcry will be massive and many govt officials will lose their careers but, their expendable as long as the PNAC is in power which they are for 4 more years.

The MoveOn/MMoore crowd seems to have such massive faith that the US government is still a valid, legal democracy and political checks and balances carry so much weight.

This was shown in their "lie-down-kick-me-in-the-head" response to the 2004 election when they blamed it on the performance of the democratic party instead of vote fraud.

[robertpaulsen]

75. Regarding CO status, how can I make sure I get 1-0 and not 1-A-0 status?

I just turned 32 four days ago, so I'm sure they will enact the special skills draft before I become too old to draft. I don't want to be sent into harm's way (actually I want nothing to do with this totalitarian misadministration) and I see that there are two CO classifications. 1-0 is opposed to both types of military service (combatant and non-combatant) so if I receive this classification, I would not be sent to the Middle East, North Korea or wherever they decide to take the War on Terror.

But classification 1-A-0, while it will keep you out of combat, could put you in the Middle East, IOW in harm's way as a non-combatant. How can I make sure that I would receive a 1-0 classification in the event of a special skills draft? I'm worried because when I was 18 I did not register as a CO. Am I too late?

[Dems Will Win]

78. Best way is to immediately get involved in a peace group

or religion that opposes war and the military in all its forms. It would help to write and then copy published letters to the editor on your opposition to the military. What you're doing is building a case.

This is true for everyone. If it happens then you are assigned for 2 years to a private sector or public Alternative Service job here in the States and your attendance is monitored by your employer.

[robertpaulsen]

82. Great idea!

Both Michael Moore and Country Joe McDonald have good links on their websites:

http://www.countryjoe.com/crisis.htm

http://www.michaelmoore.com/links/index.php

Anyone else in my shoes should check these out and follow Dems Will Win's advice: start a paper trail to prove your opposition to the military. We've only got a small window of time that will expire sometime between April 1 and June 15 of this year.

Thanks Dems!

[NC_Nurse]

76. 2 questions:

1. I turn 44 this year, does this mean I would still be elegible for the medical draft for one more year? Or is up to 44 so I'm off the hook in March?

2. My son will be 20 in 2008. Is hisAsperger's syndrome a condition that could get him a deferrment?

[Dems Will Win]

79. 2 answers

1. You're off the hook on your 45th birthday, sorry. Just don't register when they call the Medical Draft and by the time they find you through the doctor lists they are pulling together right now, you'll probably be OK.

2. Yup. Just keep ALL the records you can on his condition and maybe he could even avoid the exam if you are diligent and get a note from the psych that it would be traumatic for him to even report.

[Zech Marquis]

84. is foreign language a special skill?

I haven't say thi before in dU, but..a certain Dod agency had me take their language exam last spring...I passed it easily, but nothing else was done, hmmm....

[Dems Will Win]

85. Actually I made a mistake when I said nurse was #1 shortage

in the military.

Number #1 is actually linguist from all indications and nurse would be second.

Are you in college?

[Zech Marquis]

86. no, but I just have my one algebra class left to be done officially

age 32, and I took the Japanese language test, the other applicants took Chinese, Arabic, Korean...so I suppose Uncle Sam's going to be sending me a love ltter in the next months and have me report to whatever for further training..or whatever :eyes:

[bling bling]

88. With all due respect,

I clicked the link provided and it appeared to be a couple of months old. Did I navigate to the wrong information?

I am skeptical of a draft occuring within the next few months. Although I want to keep an open mind, I did not see any real evidence in the link that seemed convincing of an impending draft.

Do you have connections to inside information, or any other links or any verifiable data? Thank you.

[LaPera]

89. What about an only son that would have to carry on the family name?

With no male cousins?

[yodermon]

90. CO Question to anyone.

When I registered at 18, I wrote in big block letters on the top of my draft card, "I AM A CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR." (there wasn't a checkbox, see).

However, this is all I did, and I didn't keep a copy of this doc. Is there anything else I should do in advance of the pending draft to reinforce/assert my CO status?

[radar]

94. Link for you...

...Might have something useful...

How To Stay Out Of The Military - primer on draft resistance
by David Wiggins
http://www.duckdaotsu.org/resist.html

[rocktop15]

93. Fuck the draft.

Let those fucking hawks come and get my 19 year old college educated ass. They'll be a hell of a fight. I am never going to fight for oil and elitist causes in my lifetime. I am not concerned about the draft, because I am not going to go. Put me in prison or whatever you want. That is about all I have to say on that.

[fortyfeetunder]

95. will there be any consideration for a geezer draft?

Those able-bodied individuals aged 45-65. We aren't out to pasture just yet...but the threat remains...Boomers are the largest population.

[LaPera]

98. Only if your lucky enough to be over 70!

[radar]

100. I have a question...

...Not about the draft itself*, but what the "powers that be" plan to equip all these new recruits with? How's industry going to adjust?

We're buying bullets from Great Britain, Israel, & Taiwan; emptying stockpiles of gear; curtailing training...?
I don't imagine civilian industry will be too happy switching from profitable products to war merchandise.

Countering the insurgency, Stayskal said, has been difficult for Marines on the ground. In his case, his unit was chronically short of ammunition, and his support unit got pinned down at the same time across town. The two units couldn't help each other.
"They weren't giving us nearly enough ammunition for the situations out there. Everyone was running out. Everyone was grabbing each other's ammunition."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4701323/
wartime stockpiles
http://armedservices.house.gov/openingstatementsandpressreleases/108thcongress/04-03-24johnson.html
tanks moved from south korea
http://www.vnagency.com.vn/NewsA.asp?LANGUAGE_ID=2&CATEGORY_ID=34&NEWS_ID=128030
U.S. Seeks To Buy Ammunition from Taiwan: Report
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, TAIPEI
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=586112&C=america
Running Low on Ammo
Military Turns to Overseas Suppliers to Cover Shortages
By Renae Merle Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 22, 2004
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A4044-2004Jul21?language=printer
The Magazine Of Future Warfare
http://www.g2mil.com/May2004.htm
* The draft is the only thing that could allow this administration to hold everything it has gotten it's hands on. Once the reserves currently in Iraq come home, it'll be difficult to convince ALL of them to go anywhere next year. That's 40% of the force....

[rabbit2484]

101. I'm 24 with multiple episodes of anxiety attacks

and panic disorder. Saw a pshychiatrist for about two months last fall and had been to emergency two times in past couple of years. Will it help?

I mean even in a skills draft will they want someone who will have a panic attack doing something important?

I am married with two little girls and will not go. I have places to lay low.