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"“We don’t want this freedom of the Americans."

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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 05:35 PM
Original message
"“We don’t want this freedom of the Americans."
The following information was obtained from an unsourced blog ... perhaps it's just propaganda ... perhaps it's true ... and if it is, what does this say about the conduct of our troops and how they are treating Iraqi civilians? and what does it say about those who continue to support military operations in Iraq? ... are we helping these people or not?

source: http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/dispatches/000168.php#more

I asked if the family had requested that the Americans come remove the unexploded ordnance. Mr. Shakr, with a very troubled look told me, “We asked them the first time and they said ‘OK, we’ll come take care of it.’ But they never came. We asked them the second time and they told us they would not remove them until we gave them a resistance fighter. They told us, ‘If you won’t give us a resistance fighter, we are not coming to remove the bombs.’” He holds his hands in the air and said, “But we don’t know any resistance fighters!”

Also last winter I also reported on home demolitions in Samarra by the military. The consistent pattern then was that anytime an attack occurred against occupation forces, nearby homes/buildings/fields were then raided or destroyed by the military, along with complimentary electricity cuts for the villages and/or cities.

Mohammed, a 15 year-old secondary school student stands near his home explaining what he saw. “There is a grave of an old woman they bulldozed,” and then he points to the nearby road, “They destroyed our fences, and now there are wolves attacking our animals, they destroyed much of our farming equipment, and the worst is they cut our electricity.”

“I don’t know why I was arrested,” he explained of his journey through the military detention system for 10 months, which found him experiencing treatment like having mock executions, being bound and having his head covered for days on end, and being held at a camp near Basra in the scorching summer temperatures. “At that camp they hung a sign where we stated that said, The Zoo,” he explained. He claims that his home and fields were searched and no weapons were found. His ten month detention included witnessing sexual humiliation of prisoners, and regular beatings. “I watched black American soldiers put naked Iraqi women in a cell and then enter the cell,” he explains, “I heard the screams as they soldiers raped the women.”


the Democratic Party continues to maintain that "internationalizing" the "war" in Iraq will lead to a positive result ... the Democratic Party refuses to call for withdrawal ... it's hard to see how bringing in more military with different colored uniforms will change anything described in the article ... isn't it ???

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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe having witnesses (the "international" soldiers) would
make the U.S. army behave better?
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. well, that's a nice theory ...
first of all, other countries are pulling out of the "coalition" ... the Ukrainians, who were a key part of the "Poland-Eastern Euro" block announced yesterday that they're leaving ... so the reality is that we aren't going to have more countries, we're going to have fewer ...

and while the Democratic Party continues to have faith in the military solution, and people think things might get better if there was a real international coalition, the situation continues to worsen everyday and people are dying ... how long can these poor people be expected to wait for something that's never going to happen ...

i never agreed with the policy in Iraq ... but at least, while Kerry was running, there was a chance that he could succeed at "internationalizing" the "war" ... bush has no credibility and no interest in doing this ... it's just not going to happen ... so, the Democratic Party's position before the election was valid even though I thought it was totally wrong ... but now, with bush in office, the policy is absurd ... it needs to be updated ... it needs to stop calling for "internationalizing" because that's no longer a possibility ...

the only valid options that remain are more troops or withdrawing ... continuing more of the same, which is effectively where the Democratic Party is at by default, is not a policy at all ... it's a non-policy ... it's time for a rethink and it better happen soon ...

one of bush's few remaining allies in the "coalition of the willing" is the Democratic Party itself ...
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dahr Jamail is not really just another "unsourced blog"
He's one of the few unembedded, independent journalists on the ground there.

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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. appreciate that ...
i wanted other DU'ers to see what kinds of reports were eminating from Iraq but I couldn't vouch for their authenticity ... the reports really feel like they're coming from "real people" caught in the middle of this great atrocity ...

one doesn't focus on palm trees, fences and wolves if one wants to propagandize ... there are many issues that would "sell" much more effectively ...

the quality of the reporting appears highly credible to me ...

thanks for the clarification ...
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I think he's very credible, too
Which makes his reports really hard to read.



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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tks for posting. Here's what the Iraqis call US Freedom
Edited on Sat Jan-15-05 06:19 PM by Tinoire
I love that reporter. He's American I believe.

I just happened to have this site up when you posted...
http://www.albasrah.net/index1.html

Lots of pictures on their "Democracy" page but they don't seem very impressed with it.
http://www.albasrah.net/images/democracy/index.htm

This is one of the pictures.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. The problem is unsolvable. Current US policy is only making...
things worse, and there's little than can be done to stop that, except to get out as soon as possible.

The Iraqis can handle their own affairs without US "help".
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