So who agrees with Graner's mother?

[Hippo_Tron]

Bush and Rumsfeld should've been tried and convicted before they got to Graner.

[MajorFlaw]

1. Makes sense to me. Abu Ghraib would have happened without Graner . . .

n/t

[alcuno]

2. Yeah but she also said it's better to fight them there than here.

Those parents were, and to some extent still are, drinkers of the right wing kool aid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. On that one she is corect

Before we got to Staff Sergeant Chip Graener, we should have tried...

ready, drum roll

Sec Def
Under secretary Wolfowitz
Under secreatary Cambone

Under secreatary Feith
LtGen Boykin
BGen Karpinsky...

Oh I forgot, Gonzales and Bush

She refered, quite accidentally, to... the Nuremberg standard.

Oh that does not mean that her son though should not have faced teh music... but still

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Agreed, her son should've been tried and convicted

But the bottom line is that he was following orders. Those who gave the orders need to be punished before those who followed them are.

[RBHam]

4. I kind of agree...

Bush and Rumsfeld are as guilty as Graner.

But "just following orders" has long been deemed as an unjustifiable defence.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/abughraib_commandresponsibility.html

[Hippo_Tron]

11. I think there's too much risk in defying orders in today's military

Now don't get me wrong, Graner and England don't walk away from this looking like roses in my book, they still made choices and they made the wrong choices (and honestly I don't think that given the option, they would've disobeyed their orders). However, trying Garner and England and not Rumsfeld and Bush, in my opinion, is like trying the guys who ran the gas chambers but letting Hitler walk away scott free.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[brainshrub]

8. Welcome to DU.

I'd be easy on her. What mother would want to believe that her son was so cruel?

[frylock]

9. no, she doesn't understand..

if her son had disobeyed a clearly illegal order, he would not be doing 10 years in the hole. If he were my son, nephew, brother, friend, neighbor, etc., I would also be ashamed.

Welcome to the board. :hi:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[Hippo_Tron]

12. Agreed, see my posts above...

Nonetheless, she has a good point.

[frylock]

13. don't get me wrong..

I feel that they were scapegoated (for lack of a better term), and the commanding officers, along with their superiors, should also be tried and convicted. But these commands were clearly illegal, and should have been disobeyed.

These soldiers were quite obviously not the sharpest knives in the drawer, and I don't think it's by accident that they were put in that position. Most people of an above average intellect would have questioned their commanding officer when faced with such orders.

[Cha]

6. Of course, they should have ..in

a just world..but that ain't this world.

[ComerPerro]

14. Well, they should be tried, but so should her son

I did like how Jon Stewart put it, though.

"Come on, now. Rumsfeld isn't the one on trial here. ... ... Hey, wait a second. Why isn't Rumsfeld on trial?"

[burn the bush]

15. I think there is no excusing what he did but.....

I do think you have to keep in mind that a lot of our guys are doing things in this war that they never would have considered doing had they not been sent to war. They are brainwashed with hate and violence and rewarded when they perform with that hate and violence. They are all being forced to do things that they will have nightmares about for the rest of their lives.
I don't think this guy should get off the hook, but I definately think that it should go to the top. He was just a minion.