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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:49 AM
Original message
Michael Moore's Bodyguard Arrested on Airport Gun Charge
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,144921,00.html

An excerpt:

NEW YORK — Filmmaker Michael Moore's (search) bodyguard was arrested for carrying an unlicensed weapon in New York's JFK airport Wednesday night.

Police took Patrick Burke, who says Moore employs him, into custody after he declared he was carrying a firearm at a ticket counter. Burke is licensed to carry a firearm in Florida and California, but not in New York. Burke was taken to Queens central booking and could potentially be charged with a felony for the incident.


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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. oh, I'll bet the freepers are pissing in their diapers right now!!!!
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The irony is clear. I'm amused.
Moore gun-banning attitudes are well known. Quite hypocritical for him to employ armed security. Oh well, show me somebody who has never been a hypocrite, and I'll show you somebody who doesn't really exist...or something like that.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Hypocritical for him to hire armed security?
Not with the nutcase wingers out there. It would be ludicrous for him not to have armed security.
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kaho Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. ...isn't that exactly what the NRA would say?
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DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Isn't Michael Moore an NRA member?
I seem to recall him saying he is in Bowling for Columbine.
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
78. Yep. He's a life member of the NRA.
He stated that he wanted to run for President of the NRA so that he could then dismantle it.

Got to be a life member to run - that's why he joined. Can't say he's pro-NRA then can we? Well, maybe he's come around to their way of thinking over the years, anyone think that's what happened?

He may or may not be in favor of banning (some) guns - not really sure what his stated position on the AWB was - but one thing for sure as demonstrated, he sure as hell IS NOT in favor of banning concealed carry for his private security.

I believe he's also stated that he's a huge fan of Charlton Heston's work.
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. The NRA would say that it is ludicrous for him to not...
legally have the option to carry. I agree with that particular statement.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Where exactly has Moore said we should BAN guns?
Edited on Thu Jan-20-05 01:59 AM by Downtown Hound
I believe he's in favor of gun control, but I've never heard him say we should ban guns outright. And what is Moore supposed to do? Follow his security team around on their off hours to make sure they're not committing crimes?

And as for it being hypocritical of him to employ armed security, can you imagine how many death threats Moore has probably received? I would employ armed security if I were him. Doing so in no way means you can't support basic gun control measures. He's a public figure, and a highly volatile one at that.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
40. That's right.
Moore has never, to my knowledge, advocated banning firearms. The point he has repeatedly made is that there seems to be a tie between Americans' abuse of the Second Amendment and our culture of violence. I don't blame him for hiring armed security; somebody's got to protect the folks who are speaking up for the people.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Gun-banning attitudes? What the hell are you talking about?
Moore himself is a lifetime member of the NRA, and won marksmanship competitions when he was younger. Nothing he has said implies "gun banning" as far as I can tell. But perhaps you can enlighten me.

How "well-known" are Moore's "gun banning attitudes", and are you postive they're not just a pack of lies propagated by his numerous enemies?
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. I used the wrong phrasing.
He made a decidedly anti gun film. F9/11 was much better. I don't have much use for Bowling.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
81. Anti-gun film? Do you mean Bowling for Columbine?
Edited on Thu Jan-20-05 03:35 PM by 0rganism
Bowling for Columbine documented a pervasive culture of fear in this country that overrides our natural concern for human rights, human dignity, and human life. It was hardly an "anti-gun film".
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. Moore has never been for gun banning, that's another lie from the right...
I gather you didn't watch Bowling For Columbine or you would know that.
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Sure did watch it. Wasn't impressed.
It was decidedly anti gun. F9/11 was a much better work.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. Ummm, no, was not anti-gun, it was anti-gun culture....
a totally different issue. Bowling for Columbine showed the fact that Canada has many, many guns yet the number of deaths from guns is minuscule and he was questioning why the US murder rate from guns was so high. It was the CULTURE surrounding guns in the US he was questioning. I am very surprised you didn't pick up on that very clear theme in the movie.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Bowling for Columbine did not advocate on behalf of ANY gun control
measure.

And the movie's villian was Bill Clinton.


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kaho Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
84. ...very perceptive film, but even better was Elephant...
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Willy Lee Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
51. Much more anti-fear-driven-society than anti-gun
IMHO.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Facts, schmacts. I don't need no steenkin' facts!
I have RW TalkingPoints® and JEEBUS sez that's all I need! </freeper> :crazy:
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The Sad Little Pony Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
90. ACTUALLY, Moore IS for banning.
Edited on Fri Jan-21-05 08:49 AM by The Sad Little Pony
He supports a ban on Handgun ownership.
And that WAS what his Bodyguard was arrested for.

Here's a transcript:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/articles/index.php?article=trans-donahue-20021028

From the interview.....

DONAHUE: OK, so let's understand. You'd like a ban on the sale of handguns.

MOORE: Yes. I believe that we don't need handguns.



It's not a big deal.
It's okay to admit that MM isn't perfect. None of us are.
His membership in the NRA doesn't immunize him against criticism in this case.
If Ashcroft went online, clicked away and became an ACLU member, would it make HIM immune from criticism?
Not from me.


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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
47. Banning?
Where does Michael Moore say BAN guns in the US? Many call Michael Moore extreme and yet his real views are not extreme enough so they exaggerate.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
49. Would you prefer he NOT have armed security and be an easy target
for the many many many people who hate him?

I understand if you don't want to answer this question truthfully. I really do.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Several people hate me
Including one or two who are regular contributors to DU forums. One of them even threatened me with physical violence.

Whether the total number of people who hate me is two or 20 or 2,000 shouldn't I have the same right to self-protection as Michael Moore?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Of course, feel free to hire a bodyguard yourself.
Give somebody a much-needed job. But it would be futile, since you're not a public figure and don't have the risks a public figure has.

Your point was?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. I'm not wealthy like Michael Moore is
Edited on Thu Jan-20-05 11:05 AM by slackmaster
I can't afford to hire a bodyguard.

But it would be futile, since you're not a public figure and don't have the risks a public figure has.

I see: All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.

And you have made some unfounded assumptions about what kind of risks I face in my life.

Your point was?

My life is worth just as much as Michael Moore's. I should be able to carry my own weapon. I already own several and know how to handle them.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. Sounds like something Marie Antoinette said
"Let them eat cake."

I think I'll stick with deciding for myself what I need, and I'll do it within my own means.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #56
67. Then why do insurance companies charge skydivers more than accountants?
I speak of risk, you speak of "value of life". This exchange is futile. Have a nice day.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Gee, they didn't charge me a higher premium for having guns in my home
Sorry you have to get so angry about this.
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
55. Moore's never been in favor of banning guns
that's what the right-wing nut jobs want you to think. In fact he's a lifetime member of the NRA.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. Sure he has
He's often spoken in favor of the now-defunct federal "assault weapons" ban.

Please don't reply by saying that because he's not in favor of banning all guns that he's not an advocate of gun bans.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #58
68. So, did the bodyguard have an assault weapon?
Only then calling Moore an hypocrite because of this wouldn't be utterly moronic.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Obviously he did not have an assault weapon
Edited on Thu Jan-20-05 12:06 PM by slackmaster
The classification no longer exists. It expired last September 13. All the assault weapons became just rifles, pistols, and shotguns like they were before September 13, 1994.

:dunce:

To me Michael Moore's hypocrisy or lack thereof is a secondary issue. If he thinks he needs an armed guard and can afford one, bully for him.

Much more important to me is the fact that the bodyguard is the victim of an inequity in the law. He has a license to carry a weapon in another state. Like his license to drive a car, that license should be honored by all 50 states.

The bodyguard should not have been arrested. The law is unjust and should be changed.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #68
98. His own website says he favors banning the sale of handguns
DONAHUE: OK, so let's understand. You'd like a ban on the sale of handguns.

MOORE: Yes. I believe that we don't need handguns.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/articles/index.php?article=trans-donahue-20021028
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
57. Moore's "gun-banning attitudes" aren't well known to me
in fact I didn't know about them at all. If Moore had "gun-banning attitudes" I would think he might have included them in his movie about guns and gun laws, but he didn't. :shrug:
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Tim4319 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
97. I thought he was just against assault weapons?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #97
99. No, he also supports banning handguns
DONAHUE: OK, so let's understand. You'd like a ban on the sale of handguns.

MOORE: Yes. I believe that we don't need handguns.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/articles/index.php?article=trans-donahue-20021028
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Love it how Fox is covering the story
Like this really has anything to do with Michael himself. The man is just an employee, hired to do a job.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. it's not like he was trying
 to smuggle the gun through! He declared it at the counter.
But I guess that we will hear about that for a week to cover
up some real news.
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Of course it has something to do with MM.
MM supposedly hired this guy. It logically follows that MM would know his bodyguard is armed. Also, it appears that he didn't hire an intelligent bodyguard. I find it amazing that the dumbass would actually think he could declare it at a NYC airport. As if his Florida and California licenses would be good there. Perhaps the biggest problem is that his licenses to carry are NOT good in NY. Why is that? MM's bodyguard can legally carry in 30 states with his two licenses. He should be able to carry in all of them.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. Obviously he did not hire the most intelligent bodyguard
but I still don't see how this really reflects on Michael. Bodyguards for the rich and powerful are often hired from private firms. He simply goes to them and says, "I need some security men," and these are what it provided to him. What they do away from his presence is neither his fault nor his responsibility, unless he specifically told him to take his gun to NY, then it would be a different matter. But this man's bad judgment is his own. He is supposed to know the gun laws since he is carrying it. He is in charge of Michael Moore's safety, not the other way around.
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Boosterman Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
62. Yeah but you would think that
his bodyguard would have known he MIGHT go to New York. I agree on reciprocal licenses. Why the heck did we spend all that money on the silly databases.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
82. And the very latest news....
Edited on Thu Jan-20-05 06:40 PM by Downtown Hound
It's not even Moore's regular bodyguard. He has been assigned to him in the past but only on a few occasions. This is basically like saying that you're responsible for what a gardener that you once hired to install a lawn does on his spare time. But I guess some people will always be looking for excuses to call Moore a hypocrite and slam him, regardless of how ridiculous it is.

And here's the latest from an anti-Moore site. Even they're discounting the story.

http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/correction_to_moores_bodyguard_story
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. I wonder what the truth will ultimately be, this phrase is suspicious:
"Police took Patrick Burke, who says Moore employs him..."

Fox news and weasel phrasing usually means the truth is not what they are implying.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Parlock?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. That's a heck of a story.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/04/171.html

I was only vaguely familiar with it. It is an interesting read.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Interesting. Cons are so quick to claim Moore is "hypocritical"
when they have no problem with th flood of lies coming out of the monsters in DC. Even on DU you find posters looking for any opportunity, no matter how irrational, to bash Moore. It doesn't take much to bring them out.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. Yeah. it IS possible the guy could be punking Michael here.
Has Michael confirmed whether Burke actually is his bodyguard?

This has Nixon-style ratfucking written all over it.
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Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. Would that be Patrick Burke of the University of Chicago
Articles written by Patrick Burke

http://maroon.uchicago.edu/archives/writer/patrick_burke/

Will Michael Moore cash in on the second Bush term? by Patric Burke.

http://maroon.uchicago.edu/viewpoints/articles/2004/11/15/will_michael_moore_c.php
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #34
50. Interesting
Moore lives in the building next door to me. I have seen his bodyguard several times. Does anyone have a photo associated with this story? The bodyguard I have seen is African American, about 5'9", stocky (or wearing kevlar) with close cropped hair.
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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
75. Clear this up for me, since you live in NYC
Aren't the NY state gun laws different from the city gun laws?

Second Question: If the gun is in a double container, can a gun be transported through the city without a permit or license?

Thanks for any info you might have.

signed:

a gun totin' grandma from FL who wants to know.
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moindependent Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Good reference website
Refer to the New York state page on Packing.org for a good reference on transporting firearms into and through NY state and NYC.

Basically, if you're travelling and your destination is anywhere in NY, leave your gun at home. If you're flying and you have a connecting flight through an airport in NY, refuse to take possession of your luggage during the connection. You will be arrested and persecuted for illegal possession of a firearm.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #75
94. For non-residents
It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license. (A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel if the person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console).

more at: http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=NY

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
74. Quite a coincidence of names, if nothing else
Time will tell, I suppose.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm a gun-toting lib
This is another myth we need to dispel. Many democrats fully believe in the conceal and carry laws and own guns.

This bodyguard should be let off. It's awfully hard to keep up with each state's laws. He did declare it.

But then New York's governon is Republican, so he could get life without parole.
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UL_Approved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
12. Is this really his bodyguard anyway?
Is ANY part of this story true? Does anybody know if this is actually somebody associated with Michael Moore?

<bullshit>
Next, on FOX, Michael Moore's dog gets fined in Central Park. More after this commercial break.

And welcome back. This afternoon, Michael Moore had a run-in with the New York City police when his dog apparently relieved itself in an area outside of the designated zone for such things. Police said Moore tried to explain that it was a misunderstanding. Later, animal control was called in to assist the officers on scene. Moore is scheduled to be in court this coming Monday following charges of violating leash laws.
</bullshit>
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Later, dude. Sleep tight. n/t
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UL_Approved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. What did I miss? n/t
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MHalblaub Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
37. The usual talk about Mr. Moore from
a 'free' republic point of view.

By the way.

Did anybody here know where to find some official statistics about:
- person killed by gun or rifle
- person killed by car accidents
in the US?

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #37
60. Try these.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
18. They are scared of him. Thats why they attack him.
He is doing somthing right to get this kind of negative "Liberal Media" coverage.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
21. Watch this guy do time because he is with Michael Moore.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
83. This article doen't confirm his employment by Moore, yet
Fox uses Moore's name in the headline. Whoever out there who is keeping a list of each breach of journalistic ethics by Fox needs to put this one on the list.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. Maybe it was a "plant" for a message that MM is protected with real
bullets, in case anyone gets any stupid whims.
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Doubtful, you think that somebody would commit a felony for him?
Seriously, who's going to risk prison for a movie maker?
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
23. I love Moore but the Columbine film hurt the Dems and alienated a high %
Edited on Thu Jan-20-05 08:03 AM by hollowdweller
of the blue collare working class people who identified with Roger and Me and his other films showing the screwing of the working class. I know tons of people who hate Bush and Iraq but refused to see F911 because of what they perceived as an anti gun film (Columbine). After that one he became the enemy of the little guy in their opinion.
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. too bad......
these people don't seem very bright.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. The conservative attack machine did that
Not the film. It was excellent.
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PunkPop Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
39. Columbine was about irrational fear
and the media's role in stoking it amongst the american public. Anybody who thinks it was an anti-gun film wasn't paying attention. I thought it was a great movie.

Moore points out that Canada has an equal or even higher percentage of gun owners as the U.S. but significantly lower rates of gun violence. Kind of a counterproductive observation to include in an "anti-gun" film don't you think?
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #23
42. Then they are idiots and don't deserve to see the truth?
maybe?
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kaho Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
85. ...yes, I think Mr Moore...
...dropped the cheese off his cracker around about then.
A victim of his own ego I think.
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MyMouth Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
32. Another anti....
Surrounding himself with men with guns. Wonderful. What a lovely example you set, Michael, you are in good company with Boxer and Bloomberg now.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #32
43. 3... 2.... 1....
later
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #43
100. What does
"3... 2.... 1...." mean? :shrug:
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
45. another "anti....." what?
what are you claiming he is against?
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #32
46. HUH?
"surrounding himself with men with guns"? What I see is that he has A bodyguard who carries a gun. I hate guns, but in my opinion, Michael Moore would be a fool not to have a bodyguard with a gun. The people who hate him are not exactly what I would call peace-loving people. They seem to be more the war and violence loving type.
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MyMouth Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. So you would have no problem
If I, or any other law-abiding citizen, wanted to carry a concealed handgun to protect myself with, if I felt threatened?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #48
63. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #48
66. Are you a bodyguard by trade? Is it licensed?
Are you in the public eye, with VERY good reason to feel threatened? I'd really need more information. Don't put words in my mouth.
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MyMouth Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Do I need to be?
Do only those of a certain profession get to protect themselves? Only the famous? Under who's burden of proof do I need to prove I am threatened?

Why should I need permission, from anyone, to protect myself, if I am a law abiding citizen? What I am aiming for here is the freedom for ANYONE to take measures to protect themselves, not just the rich and powerful. If I tried to take a handgun through JFK, I would currently be enjoying my 15th body cavity search of the day, either by homeland security officers or my cellmate.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. I'm sorry
I don't like guns. I think they're dangerous. My extremely irresponsible brother had 3. We managed to have the police take them away from him when he developed a bad drug problem. You're asking the wrong person. It is a miracle that one of his kids never picked up the always loaded gun and shot themselves or someone else. He was licensed to have them.

I do think people who have reason to feel threatened, or are in the public eye, should be able to protect themselves, yes. I don't think any "law abiding citizen" should be able to carry a concealed weapon. That can turn a "law-abiding citizen" into a criminal quickly. I didn't say "celebrity" - I said people in the public eye who have VERY good reason to feel threatened.

In my opinion, if you feel threatened, you too should hire a trained bodyguard. I know of too many people with guns who aren't here anymore, who probably would be if they didn't have licensed guns.

It is just my opinion. I do not like guns. I would not impose my likes or dislikes upon other people if the majority felt differently, but I am entitled to my opinion, as you are to yours.
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MyMouth Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. "Hire a trained bodyguard?"
"Public eye"?

What would you advise for a low-income female, not in the public eye at all, who is being threatened by an ex-husband? Hire a full time bodyguard? Or perhaps pick up a used .38?

Again, I guess only the rich deserve protection from harm.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I would not impose my likes or dislikes on other people
I refuse to argue with you. It was an opinion, that's all. If you want to get a gun, feel free. If you feel you need one, maybe you do. I can't make that decision for you. Just because I don't like 'em has nothing to do with whether you have one or not. Nor have I ever voted specifically for or against any kind of gun laws.

You do seem well versed in putting words into other people's mouths. Perhaps you should change your name.

Anyway, I'm done. It was nice chatting.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #69
91. you say that like you ENJOY body cavity searches....
:nopity:

the point you are trying desperately to make is irrelevant.

IMHO.
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kaho Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #46
86. ..I think criminals are the violence loving type...
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
33. I wonder what the Brady Campaign and Million Mom March are going to say?
After all Moore is there hero since he made BFC, and donated money to them. Those 2 organizations do NOT support concealed carry.

I wonder if they will call for "tough enforcement" of the laws?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. Most states allow private citizens to carry concealed weapons
Edited on Thu Jan-20-05 11:33 AM by slackmaster
New York and my state (California) are two of just 13 that either don't issue permits to individuals or require some kind of special permission. In two states no permit is required, and in the other 35 anyone who wants a permit and meets the state's requirements for clean criminal record, training, etc. can get one.



I'm just as qualified as someone in the 37 states that recognize the right to carry a weapon to decide whether or not I should carry one.
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
41. Timing?
The timing of this is all too convenient, coming out right before huge inaugural protests are to take place. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this was some kind of plant to delegitimize the protests today (by Rove, perhaps).
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Boswells_Johnson Donating Member (526 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
44. How is it that an honest expression of opinion, on ANY topic,
is percieved to hurt the Democrats? So and So said this, and the dems were hurt...so and so said that, and the dems got screwed...

Shouldn't them Dems want to lead and not pander to interest groups? I think Dems get so concerned with not offending anyone that they end up frequently watering down ideas, or simply become reactionary.

* is an knob. Everyone knows it. Why don't people start calling it how they see it? You gotta take back the label "Liberal" in your country, and be proud about it!

(I forget which response this for...I didn't reply to the right one...:)but it was in this thread)
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kaho Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #44
87. Sir, you may be in the wrong thread, but...
you are right. I like the cut of your jib...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
72. Gun licenses should work like driver's licenses - Guard should go free
The bodyguard did not deserve to be arrested. A license to carry a gun in California or Florida should be honored in New York.

Here's a site with lots of good information about state laws on concealed weapons:

http://www.packing.org
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moindependent Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-05 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
79. Unjust arrest? Yes. Hypocritical? Maybe not, but ironic at the very least.
Moore is most certainly anti-gun. He favored a ban on semi-automatic weapons, based on their names and appearances, without any evidence that they contributed to crime rates. He promotes the idea of an evil "gun culture" in the U.S., without defining what that culture is.

Guns are common possessions among the American public, whether their owners are black, white, red, or yellow, and regardless of whether they live in the inner city or a rural area. Some are used legally, others illegally. Substitute the word "Cars" for "Guns" in this statement, and it will be equally true. Moore and others of his ilk villify the inanimate "Gun" to avoid placing the blame on the criminals who use them, including two degenerate schoolchildren in Colorado.

He associates himself with people and organizations hell-bent on removing firearms from the American public, including Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, and Sarah Brady's Handgun Control, Inc (or whatever name she chooses to slap on it today). These people abuse the rights of law-abiding citizens to maintain their status in the spotlight, and he associates with them by choice, placing himself on their level.

So....yes, his bodyguard is being abused by a movement that Moore himself seeks to perpetuate, either directly or indirectly. Moore is a hypocrite for associating with, and thereby supporting, those who would deny the right of self defense to the average person, while maintaining armed guards for himself. He was a hypocrite before and after his bodyguard was arrested, so the arrest is irrelevant but ironic.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #79
102. MM is not anti-gun.
He IS anti-GUN NUT!

I understand your concern.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
88. The real story, finally.
www.gavindebecker.com
Dear Editors:

Our firm employs Patrick Burk.

Fox News has now removed the link for this story from their home page; their original story contained several errors (below). We want to be certain you are aware of the appropriate corrections.

I know that Fox News editors must rely upon others when preparing their stories, and I offer with no judgment that their story titled “Michael Moore’s Bodyguard Arrested on Airport Gun Charge” contains several errors, including its entire headline.

Please correct the errors in your story below as soon as possible, because, as you are aware, the errors reach an ever-widening audience with each passing minute - and will predictably be picked up by other news agencies.

Our full-time employee, Patrick Burk, is not “Michael Moore’s bodyguard.” Accordingly, the headline in the Fox News Web site story is false and misleading.

If you believe Patrick Burk was ever assigned to protect Michael Moore, or any number of other public figures, you might accurately report that “A bodyguard who was once assigned to protect Michael Moore...”

You could as accurately say “A bodyguard that was once assigned to protect President Clinton,” because Patrick Burk has also been assigned to protect President Clinton in the past - but you wouldn’t be accurate if you said “President Clinton’s Bodyguard.”

Patrick Burk is not Michael Moore’s bodyguard, nor was he protecting Michael Moore or in any way involved with Michael Moore on Wednesday night, when he (Burk) was checking in at JFK for a flight to Los Angeles.

When checking in for the flight, Patrick Burk voluntarily advised United Airlines that he was transporting an unloaded, locked firearm in his checked luggage, precisely as regulations require, and not “carrying” a weapon, as your story inaccurately reports. Advising the counter ticket agent is a routine procedure for police officers and security professionals. In this case, a Port Authority officer decided to arrest Patrick Burk on the charge that he is not licensed to carry a firearm in New York City.

The Fox web site headline contains an error not present in the story. The headline indicates that Patrick Burk was arrested on an “airport gun charge.” He was not. The charge involves having a firearm without a New York City License to carry it. On that note, Patrick Burk was not carrying a weapon on his person (only locked in his baggage), and the police do not allege that he was carrying a weapon on his person, as your story implies.

Police, security professionals, sportsmen, and citizen gun owners who fly on the Nation’s airlines are legally bound to advise the airlines of firearms in their checked baggage - and the firearms are transported just like any other baggage.

The Fox News story also says Patrick Burk was carrying “an unlicensed firearm.” Please correct that error. Patrick Burk’s firearm is legally registered to Patrick Burk - it is not “unlicensed.” Patrick Burk is licensed to carry a firearm in several States, and a court will determine if any charge is appropriate for Patrick Burk in this matter, which involves New York City.

Though I realize a Michael Moore connection would be of interest to your web site, Patrick Burk is not Michael Moore’s bodyguard, and has never been employed by Michael Moore.

An important note for you is that Patrick Burk is not a public figure and even the smallest inaccurate detail that is widely disseminated could predictably interfere with his ability to pursue his profession. Patrick Burk is a former Marine who served with distinction in an elite and specialized Marine unit, and he protected, among others, then-President Clinton.

Our firm provides protective coverage for public figures and others, and Patrick Burk is a leading professional in his field.

I highlighted in red below the specific errors where they appear in the Fox News story.


Sincerely-

Gavin de Becker
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #88
92. I KNEW I SMELLED HORSE MANURE! thanks for posting the real story.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #88
93. Gee, I wonder if faux will have an investigation into how they
allowed this phony story to be published. And then, fire all those repsonsible.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. Like so-called "Rather-gate" this should be John Moody-gate
He sees the opportunity to slander MM and doesn't care if he takes a decorated Marine who it looks like, in spite of the arrest, has committed no crime.

Also Fox saw fit to screw with one of the most elite bodyguard firms in the country by creating an atmosphere where clients and potential clients may believe that their bodyguards will create negative publicity for them. Sounds compensable.
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #88
96. Ok, MM's former bodyguard.
Why did he bring up MM's name, I wonder? Interesting.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #96
101. Parlocky.
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. The sound you hear is my feet scampering towards the dictionary.
Edited on Fri Jan-21-05 12:49 PM by skippythwndrdog
And "parlocky" isn't in the dictionary. What the heck does it mean?
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. Is this the man that pinched his daughter to make her cry and
then said that liberals are making his daughter cry?
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. I'm even more confused now.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. during the campaign, an idiot freeper named parlock...
attended a Kerry rally and fabricated an attack on his daughter, using his son to pretend to be a union member and rip up her Bush signs in the Kerry section, making her cry.
It made the rounds of right wing blogs...stirring an outrage at the bad, bad, kerry supporters who would attack a child.

but the only thing was, he did the EXACT SAME THING four years ago, with another child, claiming exactly the same thing.....freeper theatre for the small minded. He also claimed the RNC headquarters in his area had been shot at...which establishes a pattern of attacking yourself, pretending to be victimized, in order to point an accusing finger against your opposition.
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. Thank you! I was baffled! YOU ROCK! eom
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Lucille Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 12:50 PM
Original message
I can't find that letter at the website you posted.
Has it been pulled?

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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
89. Faux Moos; MISINFORMING rightwingnuts still. As always.
Sorry freepo-fascists, but Faux Moos is WRONG.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
104. It was total Bullshit
Moorewatch.com had to post the following from Burk's employers.


Dear Moorewatch Editors:

Our firm employs Patrick Burk.

Fox News has now removed the link for this story from their home page; their original story contained several errors (below). We want to be certain you are aware of the appropriate corrections.

I know that Fox News editors must rely upon others when preparing their stories, and I offer with no judgment that their story titled “Michael Moore’s Bodyguard Arrested on Airport Gun Charge” contains several errors, including its entire headline.

Please correct the errors in your story below as soon as possible, because, as you are aware, the errors reach an ever-widening audience with each passing minute - and will predictably be picked up by other news agencies.

Our full-time employee, Patrick Burk, is not “Michael Moore’s bodyguard.” Accordingly, the headline in the Fox News Web site story is false and misleading.

If you believe Patrick Burk was ever assigned to protect Michael Moore, or any number of other public figures, you might accurately report that “A bodyguard who was once assigned to protect Michael Moore...”

You could as accurately say “A bodyguard that was once assigned to protect President Clinton,” because Patrick Burk has also been assigned to protect President Clinton in the past - but you wouldn’t be accurate if you said “President Clinton’s Bodyguard.”

Patrick Burk is not Michael Moore’s bodyguard, nor was he protecting Michael Moore or in any way involved with Michael Moore on Wednesday night, when he (Burk) was checking in at JFK for a flight to Los Angeles.

When checking in for the flight, Patrick Burk voluntarily advised United Airlines that he was transporting an unloaded, locked firearm in his checked luggage, precisely as regulations require, and not “carrying” a weapon, as your story inaccurately reports. Advising the counter ticket agent is a routine procedure for police officers and security professionals. In this case, a Port Authority officer decided to arrest Patrick Burk on the charge that he is not licensed to carry a firearm in New York City.

The Fox web site headline contains an error not present in the story. The headline indicates that Patrick Burk was arrested on an “airport gun charge.” He was not. The charge involves having a firearm without a New York City License to carry it. On that note, Patrick Burk was not carrying a weapon on his person (only locked in his baggage), and the police do not allege that he was carrying a weapon on his person, as your story implies.

Police, security professionals, sportsmen, and citizen gun owners who fly on the Nation’s airlines are legally bound to advise the airlines of firearms in their checked baggage - and the firearms are transported just like any other baggage.

The Fox News story also says Patrick Burk was carrying “an unlicensed firearm.” Please correct that error. Patrick Burk’s firearm is legally registered to Patrick Burk - it is not “unlicensed.” Patrick Burk is licensed to carry a firearm in several States, and a court will determine if any charge is appropriate for Patrick Burk in this matter, which involves New York City.

Though I realize a Michael Moore connection would be of interest to your web site, Patrick Burk is not Michael Moore’s bodyguard, and has never been employed by Michael Moore.

An important note for you is that Patrick Burk is not a public figure and even the smallest inaccurate detail that is widely disseminated could predictably interfere with his ability to pursue his profession. Patrick Burk is a former Marine who served with distinction in an elite and specialized Marine unit, and he protected, among others, then-President Clinton.

Our firm (www.gavindebecker.com) provides protective coverage for public figures and others, and Patrick Burk is a leading professional in his field.

I highlighted in red below the specific errors where they appear in the Fox News story.

Please let me know that you have received this email, and if you need further information or need to reach our firm, please call (redacted), and ask for (redacted).

Sincerely-

Gavin de Becker
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. I knowed it, I knowed it, I knowed it!
I love being right.

Person out there scoring Faux on breaches of ethics, I hope you caught this one!
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