John Kerry, (man for the people), Wal Mart investor.

[sfecap]

Unbelievable.

Oh, waitaminit...it's in his wife's name. Uh huh. Right.

What a phony lying asshole. Wal Mart is everything that is wrong with our country. Low wages, non union (union busting), keep women down, big box, destroys small businesses, ugly stores, ugly business.

And the Kerrys own their stock?

Check it out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=297811#297987

Note: This IS a Kerry bashing thread. This disgusts me.

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. Wal-Mart destroyed every small business

in my hometown.

[Raven]

2. ENOUGH! You folks really eat your own!

Just vote for Bush and be done with it! Jeeeeze!

[sfecap]

7. Don't like it? Don't read it.

A candidates investments are absolutely germane to his candidacy.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. Here's Dean's:

SALOMON SMITH BARNEY CASH ACCOUNT ($601,003 - $1,265,000 )
T ROWE PRICE SUMMIT CASH RESERVES ($250,001 - $500,000 )
560 ACRES OF UNDEVELOPED LAND IN LOWELL VT ($250,001 - $500,000 )
INTEREST IN MADISON COUNTY VA (TIMBERLAND) ($100,001 - $250,000 )
REAL ESTATE JERICHO CAMP (VT) ($100,001 - $250,000 )

[tjdee]

16. Well, his family has roots in Smith Barney...

So there's that...not a lot there, actually.

[sangh0]

17. A lot of money from stock breakers

Who's his acct, Aurthur Anderson?

[sfecap]

19. Stock brokers?

Do you know what a cash account is?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

48. Looks like a lot in undeveloped land and timber.

His own preservation policy? :shrug:

[sangh0]

91. Dean owns stick in Nazi-enabling IBM

who are now under fire for making their employees work with carcinogens.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

99. Look at the Public Integrity site.

Dean's affiliations are appx. 1 page.

Kerry's are 10 pages long.


One should look at the 30+ companies that Dean has an affiliation with and keep an eye on anything that has to do with those investments.

Ibid. the 550+(too many to count) companies that Kerry is involved with.


Which one will be easier to keep an eye on?

[sangh0]

103. So it's OK because Kerry is worse?

Weak.

[blm]

109. Dean campaigning is pushpolling here at DU, too.

Guess they decided to branch out.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

113. That's meme #1. Remember?

The new meme is Dean=Zell Miller. Meme #2.


FYI, I have no connection to the Dean campaign other than being a supporter. How about you? People usually accuse others of that which they are guilty themselves. See: Republicans for reference. (And no, I'm not accusing you of being a Republican. Are you actively involved in Kerry's campaign, beyond support?)

[blm]

117. Nope...not allowed

because of my spouse's workplace.

btw...I am the one who noticed MANY MONTHS ago that if people at DU were paying attention to Dean during his tenure as governor, that he would have fared as well as Zell Miller does here.

As far I know, I am the only one who has posted this. Why? Does it hit too close to home for you?

I noticed that sfecap smearing Kerry using the Nixon smear of "phony" that has been cultivated by the GOP operatives for over 30 years doesn't bother you a bit. But, me, a liberal member of a message board that points out that Dean is a centrist like Zell Miller becomes a person of suspect?

Hahah...fair and balanced, heh?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

110. No! No! No!

All I'm saying is that it is a valid factor to look at when weighing the pros/cons between two quality candidates. It's not THE deciding factor, just A factor. Anyone who is going to have a say in how our legislation is going to be structured must be subject to scrutiny. Dean and Kerry, et. al. Weigh it's value to you but don't discard it out of hand. Follow the money.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

38. Walmart stock is in my 401K

does that make me evil?

No.

If you look at any individual, you can probably find some investment or association that isn't to your liking. Things aren't that black and white.

[Andy_Stephenson]

45. No your not evil...

But I would divest the Wal-Mart stock.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andy_Stephenson]

66. Like Kerry the war enabler?

nt

[blm]

81. Biden-Lugar enabled war didn't it?

Howard Dean was FOR that version of the IWR.

[Andy_Stephenson]

85. Dennis was against the war...still is and

he is my man.

[TLM]

86. Only if there was a real threat and UN support...

then only to the end of disarming Saddam, not taking over Iraq.


Kerry supported invasion, take over, and no UN. In fact Kerry attacked Dean for saying he'd require UN backing before sending in troops.

Dean only supported use of force if there was a damn good reason.

Kerry supported use of force if it might help his career.

[piece sine]

14. but who shops there?!

Unless the manager of WalMart prints money in the back room, that store in your hometown is/was patronized but your hometown folks! They walked in a bought things...and in the process, yuor hometown folks drove or walked past local stores that needed the business. Am I right?

Now, unless WalMart held a gun to customer's heads, I 'd say the prosperity of your hometown businesses HAS everything to do with its customer base.

[sfecap]

28. Bullshit.

Wal Mart comes in, puts up the ugly big box, drives the local small businesses out of business, and the local community has no where else to go. But at least Wal Mart pays low wages, offers few benefits, screws workers at virtually every turn, and treats female employees like shit. But hey....that's a good thing huh?

Support the common man....invest in Wal Mart!

[piece sine]

44. customers talk, BS walks....

People should support their local stores or their local stores will go away. Simple economics. WalMart is irrelevant; apparently they deliver what people want. I do NO shop there (for the reasons you mention) nor do I own there stock. But lots of people shop there, apparently because they are attacked to something!

As you so blind as to think all WalMart customers are Republican??? Millions of Democrats shop there. And they may very well pass-by their own neighbor stores to get there. Shouldn't you be holding THE PEOPLE accountable for their shopping habits?

[Andy_Stephenson]

49. Wal-Mart uses slave labor for most of their products...

practices predatory pricing and drives the small business out.

[piece sine]

62. so join me not shopping there...

but those looking for reasons for Walmart's success MUST look at the people who shop there. I'm calling upon the average citizen to change his or her ways and support local merchants. You can blame big, badWalmart all you want but people vote with their feet -- shop with them too -- and they shop en masse at WalMart. For garden supplies, I drive right past WalMart and go to Mrs. McGregor's Garden Shoppe.

But there are still long lines at WalMart. Local merchants CAN compete if they build a good client base with quality products and services. Just yelling about WalMart doesn't change the business factors that make it a success.

I'm not a Kerry voter and I'm not trying to defend or knock on this him...but sometime between now and Election Day 2004, some of this threads at DU had better focus on common sense or we'll be in for a terrible, terrible shock.

[StopTheMorans]

65. great post!

loved the closing lines.

[yankeedem]

107. I agree with you

Walmart could give their crap away and they wouldn't succeed, if it wasn't for your neighbors and mine (oh, actually, we don't have a Walmart) passing the neighborhood store and going to Walmart.

I hate Walmart A LOT, but that is a fact that cannot be disputed.

Local stores have to compete, but at the same time local residents need to connect their neighbors lost jobs with Walmart coming to town.

[Freddie Stubbs]

You make it sound like the locals had no choice in the matter

How exactly did Wal-Mart "drive the local small businesses out of business?" Did they immediately close shop the day Wal-Mart opened up? Or did their customers begin shopping at the "ugly big box" instead of the small local businesses? Why would they do such a thing?

[denverbill]

68. They outprice them, unfairly.

Fred's Clothing store buys 100 pairs of jeans a month from Levi's. Walmart buys 100,000,000. Walmart gets an enormous volume discount. Fred's pays full price.

To a certain degree, it's reasonable to give large customers discounts. However, Walmart goes beyond reasonable in it's negotiations. If Levi's wants space at Walmart, they've got to agree to Walmart's terms and sell at Walmart's price, or Walmart starts talking to Wrangler.

It's fine when Fred's clothing does that. No skin off Levi's ass to lose 100 jeans sales/month. But losing 100,000,000 is another story. Levi's cuts prices to the bare bones, possibly even losing money in the process.

In the end, Levi's loses money and cuts job, Fred's closes shop and loses jobs, and Walmart and it's crappy minimum wage jobs survives.

[Freddie Stubbs]

72. So what you are saying

is that the locals would rather buy their Levis at Wal-Mart than pay more at Fred's clothing store. How in the world could Fred compete? By selling items that Wal-Mart doesn't. Not every small business goes under when Wal-Mart moves into town. The ones that can provide goods and services that Wal-Mart doesn't can not only survive but also thrive.

[piece sine]

74. Every body wears Levis...

"If you wear Levis, It looks like you shop at WalMart...so shop at Freddie's and buy all the great brands they Don't SELL at WalMart."

Shopping at Freddies helps you stand out.

There is a market for "Freddy's" goods and services. If we cocnede there isn't, then we are truly giving into WalMart. Rather then fight or knock the people who voluntarily shop at WalMart, we need to find ways of luring them back into "Freddy's."

[RummyTheDummy]

123. I tend to agree.

I loathe Wal Mart probably more than the average person. I've had a boycott going for over a year. But that's the little achiles heel of people who hate Wal Mart. The people in a particular town are in part at fault for allowing Wal Mart to succeed. They're the ones suckered in by cheaper prices. They go in there and spend their money.
Like you said, Wal Mart isn't printing money in the back room and we all know it doesn't grow on trees.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. And Henry Ford put many buggy whip manufactures out of business

[Starpass]

3. ummm, I wonder how many shares Dean's muti-bizzillion dollar

family owns??? These people are awash in money and I'll be it's in things that would drive people nuts. Be sure your candidate is dirt poor, owns no stocks, never took a political contribution, never spit on the side walk and NEVER locked his gov. papers in Vermont because he doesn't want you to see what he has been up to with big business in Vermont. Save the witch hunt for Bush.

[sfecap]

8. That is not relevant.

The relevant question is what does the candidate and his wife own.

Would you like to defend Wal Mart? I really want to hear that. Do you approve of Kerry investing in that company? (And it's not an insignificant investment....)

[tjdee]

27. Why his wife? Why not his mother? Why not his sister's?

Is there any particular reason you're stopping at the wife?

I mean, why don't we find out what his mom is investing in. Surely he has some input on that, too!

:eyes:

[dsc]

104. Given Teresa Heinz and Kerry's special

circumstances your post is fair in this case but I do hope you aren't making a general eqivalency between one's wife and one's mother or sister. That is just silly as a general thing.

[gWbush is Mabus]

4. in his defense...

I believe his wife is a BILLIONAIRE.
He probably owns shares of thousands of companies.

[sfecap]

13. For the record, his wife is not a billionaire.

And it's simple NOT to own particular stocks. You simply tell your investment advisors not to buy them.

[Andy_Stephenson]

5. BTW Compare to Dennis K.

OHIO PUB EMP RET SVC Stocks or Bonds Candidate $1,001 $15,000
THIRD FEDERAL S&L Stocks or Bonds Candidate $1,001 $15,000
CONGRESSIONAL FED CREDIT UNION Stocks or Bonds Candidate $0 $1,000
AM CROATIAN LODGE Stocks or Bonds Candidate $0 $1,000

[bearfartinthewoods]

6. you know, there really is no shame in

posting to your own thread.

you could cut down the clutter if you just started on "Kerry suxs"
thread and lay out your assorted beefs with him in one thread instead
of the three you started.

[sfecap]

11. Thank you. The thread police have shown up.

Next time I'll clear all posts with you first, OK?

[bearfartinthewoods]

56. excellant !

wow...an i didn't even have to flash my badge!

[Uzybone]

12. good point

instead of saturating the boards with this crap.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Patriot_Spear]

9. OOohhhhh- is he really? Ouch.

So much for my respect for him...

[Rose Siding]

10. Destructive flamebait

The only thing you'll accomplish is green lighting spew against your own candidate.

There were about a million ways you could make this point without being abrasive, insulting or intolerant of others.

[sfecap]

18. No, valid and relevant information.

How many union members will support investing in one of the most virulently anti union, anti workers rights corporations in America?

It is very, very, relevant.

[Rose Siding]

23. Did I say it wasn't relevant?

No, I didn't.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. Careful..Walmart just lost the case to restrict unions...you may be

slamming workers you will need to enroll in a union.

[sfecap]

35. That means nothing.

Wal Mart uses intimidation, one on one meetings, and employee terminations to thwart union organizing. They spend millions per year retaining union busting legal consultants to prevent any unions from being on their property. They may not "restrict" unions, but they can "convince" their employees that unions are not in their best interest.

As long as the tactics they use are legal, (and they are), workers at Wal Mart will continue to be abused.

[G_j]

21. I want to know this information

(I've been in a few bloody battles trying to keep Wallmart supercenters out of our town) But there is no need for the "lying asshole" stuff. please let's try to be more civil. thanks..

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. Thanks to your political saavy I presume the oil companies will continue

to run America.

SO THE FUCK WHAT! HE OWNS WALMART STOCK..PLEASE FIND ME A VOTE THAT WAS AFFECTED BY THIS.
THE BURDEN IS ON YOU!!

PLEASE FINE ME AN ANTI-LABOR VOTE BY KERRY.

PLEASE DEMONSTRATE ANY POLICY HE HAS PROMOTED THAT MIGHT HAVE ANY BEARING ON THIS INVESTMENT.

[Andy_Stephenson]

32. Ummmm how about a vote to steal Iraq's oil

By way of an illegal war...That should help his oil and gas investments nicely.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

58. That is simply attributing guilt through associating..got a valid argument

[sfecap]

43. Gee...I guess nothing does shock you anymore.

It's fucking HYPOCRITICAL!!!!!!

You want to defend it, go right ahead.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

55. Again, the burden is on you to prove that

Frankly, with a government that WANTS PEOPLE TO INVEST IN ORDER TO SUSTAIN THE MARKET, it would be hypocritical if he didn't own some stocks.


But since I know you are a pilot, let's talk about hypocritical...remember a certain airline turned over stocks to its employees then found itself in trouble and it's employees fully knowing they had stock to protect AND jobs to protect took both paycuts and allowed layoffs in their union negotiations.

If anything is hypocritical it would seem to me to be UNION EMPLOYEES owning stocks and therefore promoting policies that earn their union brothers and sisters less dough OR cost them their job...sort of defeats the purpose and power of a union...no?

[TheYellowDog]

111. YEAH NSMA!

Show these damned Greens that owning a stock has no bearing on what kind of senator someone is. What matters is the voting record.

[Darranar]

116. Judging by a certain Iraq war resolution...

his voting record is far from perfect. Not to mention that he failed to vote against the Patriot Act.

[sfecap]

119. Nothing wrong with owning stocks.

However, I believe in responsible investing. Owning Wal Mart with it's dismal record of workers rights is not appropriate for a politician who purports (and does) support the rights of workers to unionize.

Kerry is wrong on this and I'm frankly surprised that it is in his portfolio. He should review it.

As for the UAL situation that you allude to, boy that would take a whole nother thread to cover....we could do that if you'd like. It is an interesting situation...from many perspectives.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

122. First of all , he doesn't own it so please be truthful

Second, unless you can unequivically demonstrate that all of YOUR candidates investments are CLEAN...it's dirty pool. And anytime you would like to have that thread about UAL..I am all eyes...

[tjdee]

22. I'm SO SURE Teresa Heinz sat down with the newspaper

and highlighted Walmart as a possible buy.

Come on.

People that rich have investment managers and brokers to do the nuts and bolts investing.

I bet if someone walked up to John Kerry and asked him if his wife invests in WalMart, he'd look confused. Ditto with any one of these guys.

[sfecap]

41. No, that's true...

Teresa probably didn't do that. But you know what? She employees people who handle her investments. She merely has to pick up the phone and tell them what NOT to invest in.

I do it with my investments....so can she.

You wan to minimize this, fine.

As a union member, I won't.

[tjdee]

42. So is everyone with Walmart in their 401K evil?

Or only if they're the Kerrys?

[sfecap]

50. If you invest in Wal Mart....

You make a choice to invest in a company that is anti labor, anti worker, anti women (except for minimum wage women).

It's a choice.

For Kerry it's financial and political hypocrisy.

[Muddleoftheroad]

83. How so

Why do you say anti-women? It seems like they abuse everyone equally.

That said, we live in a capitalist society and what they do is legal. There is no reason Kerry should be abused for those investments.

[styersc]

25. Is this the same Walmart that was started by Sam Walton...

.. the man who bank rolled Bill Clinton's early political ambitions?

[Andy_Stephenson]

33. Yes...but

times have changed and Sam is dead.

[WilliamPitt]

46. ...and because it's Kerry, it has to be wrong.

:eyes:

[Andy_Stephenson]

51. No not only because it is Kerry...

But he is running for President and owns stock in a vile anti worker company. It is very telling.

[sfecap]

52. In this case, yes.

You want to put your money there, fine. But for Kerry it's hypocritical and shameful. You know Wal Mart's history and continuing treatment of workers...

A man for the common people? Bullshit.

Put your money where your mouth is, John.

[Old and In the Way]

93. Watch out for the falling prices.........

on the Wal-Mart Skull and Bones fall 2003 collection!

[Zhade]

100. I don't want to get into the war, but this post made me grin.

nt

[Hawkeye-X]

47. Sam Walton is a good man

but his offsprings are fucking idiots.

[barbaraann]

67. Sam Walton was not a good man.

Check out the book "In Sam We Trust" on amazon. And you should notice that this book seems to "disappear" no matter how many editions are printed.

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. His wife inherited her fortune from her deceased first husband

Kerry is running for office, not his wife.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

29. It's a sad day when anyone has investments in Wal-Mart!

:-(

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. Why is that? Shareholders can have great sway over company policy

and votes for the board of a company. I'd rather have Kerry owning wal Mart stock than say....SCAIFE!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

60. True, However....

the biggest investors are Institutional Banks who's main goal is to produce as big a profit as possible!

[sfecap]

63. Spin it however you like.

Shareholders and investors also provide working capital to increase the size and scope of the company to insure that the company can continue their business.

YMMV.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sfecap]

54. Gee...you attack me.

Why don't you defend Wal Mart?

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sfecap]

61. Nope, just an informed voter.

I guess that's a bad thing if it doesn't look good for your candidate, huh?

[lazarus]

37. btw

Hillary Clinton was on Wal-Mart's Board of Directors. FYI.

[Andy_Stephenson]

40. Yes I know

don't get me started on Hillary...Didn't she vote for war as well as Patriot act and Homeland gestapo?

I have no use for her either.

[lazarus]

64. Nor for Bill, I assume?

?

I'm not in any candidate's camp, btw.

[Andy_Stephenson]

69. As a matter of fact...

He lost me when he caved and signed DOMA.

[G_j]

97. I noticed you said she "WAS"

I'm glad to hear that she is no longer.

[Octafish]

39. Dean opened up Vermont to Wal-Mart.

They opened three stores in a state with 620,000 people. I wonder how many mom-and-pop stores were driven out of business? Dean didn't mind.

[prolesunited]

53. Could you clarify that?

I thought local jurisdictions controlled what goes into their communities. Can a governor just declare a particular company cannot operate in the state. Are there other governors who have banned Wal-Mart from their state?

[TLM]

59. As a matter of fact Dean wouldn't let Walmart build where they wanted.

Wal-Mart likes to build away from main business areas, as a way to draw customers away from mom and pop businesses. If someone has to drive out to wal-mart and they are away from other stores they are way more likely to just do all their shopping at walmart.

Dean wouldn't let them do it, and told them if they were going to build in VT, they had to do so in existing business areas, so the wal-mart is right there with other businesses, so someone can go to walmart, then to another store that is mom & pop next door or down the street.



Dean also is taking Wal-mart to task over their union issues and healthcare issues...

"The UFCW is currently fighting against Wal-Mart--the nation's largest private employer--which is non-unionized and does not offer health care to 600,000 workers, about 60 percent of its workforce. Workers should not have to sacrifice a basic American value--if you work, you've earned the right to health care security."

"Wal-Mart's attitude towards providing workers with health care is why Dean's Healthy America plan contains a 'hammer clause,' which punishes irresponsible big businesses that can offer health care to their workers but don't."

" These workers' rights protections are especially relevant given the egregious firing of Larry Allen, a produce clerk at the Henderson, Nevada Wal-Mart. Allen took two vacation days last week to attend the UFCW Presidential Health Care Forum in San Francisco, where Dean spoke along with four other presidential candidate. When Allen returned to work, he was summarily fired for his organizing activities--thereby violating at least two sections of Wal-Mart's own corporate policies. Without a union, Allen is left with no recourse or chance of appeal. "

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

70. From Pitt's locked thread (another thread about a thread)

There is no importance to financial disclosure?

Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 01:58 PM by RUMMYisFROSTED


Maybe we should get behind a law that hides this info from the public.


This info is fair game, imo. It doesn't tell you everything, and some of it can be misleading, but I think it's critical that we know how a candidate MIGHT be influenced once in office.

To ignore that one's own investments might dictate policy is to be ignorant.

If not, then shut the fuck up about Halliburton. (Oh, but that's different):eyes:

____________________________________________________________

You there, Will? Any response?

[unfrigginreal]

75. Mixed feelings on this Rummy...

but I agree that ignoring the investments is ignorant. I probably would agree wholeheartedly if I didn't think that it would knock out every candidate that we have.

That may be the way to go in the future, no private investments except government bonds and market CD's.

Talk about giving the government back to the people, can you imagine what it would be like for a REAL middle class citizen to gain the Presidency?

Nah...I don't think it would work and I worry that we'd be eliminating some of our best candidates.

[salin]

78. The problem isn't that they have investments

the problem is if they demonstrate a conflict of interest in the commission of their official duties (re: pass laws that benefit the companies in which they have holdings). Especially when the policies are not in the best interest of his/her constituents.

That is why it is very important to have disclosure. But the issue is not the investments per se (and in this case HIS WIFE'S investments) - but where there is a pattern of legislative behavior that indicates that the holdings are a problem.

[salin]

71. WooHoo gratuitous bashing

while only bordering on the truth. What limbaughesque techniques. How disappointing to read (the thread).

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

76. Pay no attention to who our politicians might be beholden to.

Right?

Forget Halliburton. Doesn't matter. That's just "gratuitous bashing." Right?

Money has Zero influence. It's not important. Right?

Right?

[salin]

77. This is about

slurring his wife's investments as his.

IF one comes back and can show where his behavior as a legislator has been shaped by this particular holding of his wife - THEN there is an issue. Until then - it is a gratuitous smear.

One can clearly demonstrate a pattern of official behavior, on the behalf of say - Dick Cheney as VP, that benefits Haliburton at a detriment to the country (no bid contracts are never a financial "boon" for the payer) and the detriment of other companies (unfair advantage). Thus - his connections to Haliburton (didn't he hold onto his holdings for much longer than he should have - is some Haliburton still in his "blind trust") IS an issue.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

87. Kerry voted for the TelCom Act.

FAIRPOINT COMMUNICATIONS INC TELECOM SERVICES ($2,000,002 - $10,000,000 )


Is there a there there?

[blm]

82. Dean's in bed with the energy companies

and supported Bush on Yucca Mt. and Sierra Blanca, seeded his campaign with energy company dollars and YOU are complaining that Teresa has stock in WalMart?

[VermontDem2004]

84. Ok I have searched for weeks for proof

on a comment made by Dean regarding the issue of Sierra Blanca. If you can find 1 comment where HE Knew that they were going to dump the nuclear waste at that specific site and KNEW about the dangers behind it and he supported it. I 100% promise will not support Dean if you can give me a link to a direct quote regarding the issue.

[TLM]

90. I think the closest thing Dean has said...

is that he supported getting the radioactive waste out of vermont, and secured. However Dean did not pick the site.

[tjdee]

94. "This is not a big issue."

Dean rejected calls by some anti-nuclear activists that Vermont should take care of its own waste, storing it above-ground at the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant in Vernont.

"We have much too much moisture in the ground and too much rain," Dean said. "This is not a big issue. Texas has the responsibility to site this (nuclear waste dump) and they will."

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/4745/LLRW/Texas/vermont.html

He didn't care where it went as long as it wasn't in Vermont.
This feeling has not changed, because this year he said the same thing about Yucca Mountain.

"Dean: As governor of Vermont, it was a grand idea because it would get the waste out of Vermont. But now that I'm running for president, I've got to reassess it and see what the science looks like."
http://www.gristmagazine.com/maindish/griscom052103.asp

[blm]

101. He HAD to know the dangers...he was a doctor!

And he was known for doing a helluva lot of travelling as governor, so why didn't he bother travelling to the place where he was spending 23 million dollars of the taxpayers' money to the state of Texas?

[tjdee]

102. "He didn't know" is a funny excuse.

I wonder if I can apply that to Edwards' vote on Yucca, or Lieberman's vote on the war....I imagine not.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

92. Sierra Blanca was a deal between 3 Governors

with 2 of them being named Bush and Dean.

Get your facts straight.

[tjdee]

95. According to deandefense.org, Dean did have something to do with it.

"Truth: As Vermont’s Governor, Dean supported getting nuclear waste out of his state into safer storage sites. The 1998 proposal of using Sierra Blanca, Texas as a repository was part of a compact, supported by Texas, Maine and Vermont, passed by Congress, and signed by President Clinton. As President, Dean would work towards a non-political solution to the nuclear waste storage issue based on science and safety."

http://deandefense.org/archives/000017.html

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

89. Where did I mention Theresa?

[blm]

96. Dean is beholden to energy companies. Bushlite, indeed.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Archive/Articles/Article/23996

MONTPELIER - A leading environmentalist was asked to leave Gov. Howard Dean's council of environmental advisers after she criticized the governor's short-lived proposal for a coal-fired power plant in Vermont.

Elizabeth Courtney, executive director of the Vermont Natural Resources Council, was one of 20 members of the governor's environmental council, which meets about once every three months with the governor.

But after Courtney wrote a newspaper opinion piece faulting Dean for his brief advocacy of a coal plant, she learned she was no longer welcome on the council. David Rocchio, the governor's legal counsel, wrote her late last month to say she will be replaced on the council by VNRC's board chairman. The move came after she had written the governor on energy issues and showed his staff her draft newspaper piece, Courtney said.

"From the tone of your letter (to the governor), the content of your (newspaper) essay, and your rejection of the concerns we have raised with you in conversation, it appears that you do not seek a dialogue," Rocchio wrote to Courtney and to VNRC's board. "The governor sees little point in continuing to try to discuss these issues with you."

Meanwhile, another prominent environmentalist - Mark Sinclair, Vermont director of the Conservation Law Foundation - was also asked to step down from the council. Sinclair said it was not yet clear whether he was being removed to make way for another environmentalist, as he was told, or because he had criticized Dean's environmental policies.
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http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html


Dean raises money from energy sources

February 27, 2002

By David Gram

ASSOCIATED PRESS

MONTPELIER — When Gov. Howard Dean wanted to raise money for a possible presidential bid, he followed the example of a former governor of Texas and called on his friends in the energy industry.

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“Administration actions going back some years betray an inappropriate coziness with the utilities,” said Paul Burns, executive director of the Vermont Public Service Research Group. “I am not prepared to say it’s a result of contributions given. But these contributions present the appearance of impropriety or appearance of influence that it probably would have been better to avoid.”

Dean’s close relationship with utility representatives dates back to the day he became governor in 1991. A lobbyist for Green Mountain Power and a GMP employee were among the first people Dean called in to help his transition.

A list of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers includes Green Mountain Power Corp.’s chairman, two company board members and a vice president, all of whom made donations to the Fund For A Healthy America. It also includes two longtime utility lobbyists.

Over the years, the governor has sided with the utilities on many of the most pressing issues, including the push for deregulation of the electric industry, and later backing away from that as a goal. Among other major decisions:

— After years of pushing for the companies to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contract with Hydro-Quebec, Dean’s Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of what those excess costs are expected to be in the coming years. The extra costs will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
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[oldcoot]

73. Kerry's wife is very independent

I really do not believe that Kerry is trying to pull anything because the stock is in his wife's name. I believe that Teresa Heinz Kerry is very independent and has kept her finances (legally) separate from her husband's. I do not think that she is the type of woman who asks her husband's permission before making investments nor do I think she would allow him to make investments in her name. She is not the stereotypical "little woman" who blindly supports her husband and she has a reputation for being very outspoken (she is no Laura Bush).

Ideally, I would like to see Teresa Heinz Kerry dump her Wal-Mart stock for all the reasons you have mentioned. Since she is interested in women's rights, she should not invest in a company that discriminates against women. However, she is not the one running for president. Although I am not a fan of Kerry (he voted for that damn war), I will not hold his wife's investments against him.

[blm]

79. Hillary Clinton was on the board. It didn't start out so bad.

But wasn't it Howard Dean who brought the first WalMart into Vermont? If Dean likes them so much, what's your beef with Teresa owning some stock?

[VermontDem2004]

80. TLM already tackled this on post #59

I don't like Wal*mart and encourage people not to shop there, some very releaving and bad stuff about wal*mart in the book "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy." And that was one of Hillary's biggest mistakes being on the board of directors.

[dsc]

98. It is his wife

as even you say. Given the certainty that they have a prenup (no heiress of a fortune like that would marry without one) then her money, stocks, etc, are hers. I don't think that he should be penalized for her stock holdings.

[John_H]

105. Just in case you were planning on Nader as an alternative:

I'm not accusing you of being a Green--Lord knows I wouldn't do that to anyone--but just in case you were thinking about supporting nader now that Kerry is an evildoer i though I'd bring you up to speed.

Even though Ralph won't even give 5,000 bucks to his own campaign (to avoid disclosing ANY financial info), it's well documented that he holds ...uh...a few shares of Fidelity Magellan fund.

Here are a few of Fidelity Ralph's Fidelity holdings as of March 31, 2003


Citigroup, Inc.--banks, credit cards

General Electric Co--big media, nuclear power equipment

Viacom, Inc. Class B-- Cable

Microsoft Corp--- Monopoly

Pfizer, Inc--- Drugs

Exxon Mobil Corp---Big Oil

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.--BWAHHAHHAHHHAAAA!

Merck & Co., Inc.--More Drugs

[Joseph Conrad]

106. That doesn't surprise me.

Nader is a tool of the Republicans. It doesn't surprise me that he invests like one.

[blm]

108. poster works for the Dean campaign, not a Green.

HJDHJ.

[John_H]

112. Hopefully not in their message shop.

As a Dean supporter, I hope they can afford better spokespeople. BTW, what does "HJSHJ" mean?

[blm]

120. He's just doing his job.

.

[TheYellowDog]

114. HAHAHAHA, sfecap is a HYPOCRITE

Nader owns stock in "bad" corporations too!!

Check this link out that I have posted before.


http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/10/28/stocks/print.html

Don't rip on Kerry, sfecap.

Here are some stocks Nader's fund owns:
"But this is not true. The Fidelity Magellan fund owns 777,080 shares of Raytheon, a major missile manufacturer. And this isn't the only example of his rhetoric not matching up with his financial investments."

"Nader has slammed Gore for being too cautious in his healthcare proposals, and for deferring to big pharmaceuticals. Before the House Budget Committee in June 1999, Nader testified that "Bristol-Myers Squibb markets taxol at a wholesale price that is nearly 20 times its manufacturing cost. A single injection of taxol can cost patients considerably more than $2,000 and treatment requires multiple injections." The Fidelity Magellan fund owns 15,266,900 shares of Bristol-Myers Squibb."

"After all, as Nader said to the Washington Post in June, "The corporations are planning our future. They are making sure grow up corporate. The kids are overmedicated, militarized, cosmetized, corporatized. They are raised by Kindercare, fed by McDonald's, educated by Channel One."

There is a difference between Gore and Nader on this point, at the very least: Nader has hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in a fund that owns 15,694,800 shares of McDonald's stock. Gore does not."

I copied all of these tidbits from the link above.

Here is Nader's fund in detail:

http://quicktake.morningstar.com/Fund/Holdings.asp?Country=USA&Symbol=FMAGX&fdtab=portfolio

Fidelity Magellan FMAGX See Fund Family Data




Top 25 Holdings Get Price Quotes 03-31-03

Total Number of Stock Holdings 210 Annual Turnover % 21
Total Number of Bond Holdings 0 Yield % 0.78
% Assets in Top 10 Holdings 30.96


Top 25 Holdings Sector P/E YTD Return % % Net Assets

Citigroup* 15.37 28.38 4.02
General Elec* 20.82 29.35 3.54
Viacom B* 34.88 14.22 3.29
Microsoft* 30.31 10.15 3.21
American Intl Group* 26.13 2.19 3.12

Pfizer* 48.26 1.23 2.76
ExxonMobil* 14.96 10.94 2.43
Wal-Mart Stores* 31.81 16.98 2.38
Merck* 15.48 -2.73 2.34
Fannie Mae* 13.12 9.39 2.27

Bank of America* 12.16 12.55 2.17
Johnson & Johnson* 23.39 -4.75 2.02
ChevronTexaco* 22.02 13.34 1.54
Coca-Cola* 25.45 1.81 1.49
Freddie Mac* 6.89 -6.51 1.47

UnitedHealth Group* 21.40 18.84 1.46
Wells Fargo* 14.41 10.41 1.42
Cardinal Health* 19.36 -4.70 1.42
Procter & Gamble* 23.92 7.41 1.33
Verizon Communications* 9.89 -3.45 1.31

Home Depot* 20.23 41.86 1.30
Lowe's* 28.28 45.59 1.18
Clear Channel Communications* 39.24 20.73 1.17
Morgan Stanley/Dean Witter* 18.91 22.95 1.10
Altria Group* 7.96 5.76 1.07


YTD Data through 09-05-03

Typical. Fucking Nader, who sfecap admires so much, owns stock in Wal-Mart, JUST LIKE KERRY DOES. Can you say HYPOCRITICAL? Sfecap: Game, set, match.

[TheYellowDog]

115. Well I see JohnH

beat me to it, but you can never have too much of something that you can rub in the stupid Greens' faces. :)

[sfecap]

118. Where did you ever get the idea that I support Nader?

I think Nader sucks.

He's a phoney. Always has been.

[library_max]

121. "My Candidate Sucks So Bad That I Have To Attack Yours"

All hail CoffeePlease1947! He has come up with the perfect formula for dispelling all these negative campaign threads! All you Dean-bashers, Kerry-bashers, any-Democrat-bashers, please repeat after me: “MY CANDIDATE SUCKS SO BAD THAT I HAVE TO ATTACK YOURS.”

If I were a Bush supporter, I would be ROFLMAO to see all these Democrats ripping each other to pieces. My candidate in the general election is Anybody But Bush. As for the primaries, I haven’t decided yet. Amazing, ain’t it? Considering that the primaries are only six months away.

Come on, ladies and gentlemen! Unity, please! Eyes on the prize! BUCK FUSH!