Lieberman freaks me out (On Daily show now)...he's actually a pretty

[karlrschneider]

funny guy but WTF is up with his politics? He's giving Chimp hell over the Social Security "reform" plan...defending Dems and talking about global warming and the deficit. Is he bipolar or something?

[drdtroit]

1. He's a politician. n/t

[Pirate Smile]

2. He generally is funny. Foreign policy v. domestic policy seems to be

where he is bipolar. He is a Dem on domestic policy but loves Shrub's foreign policy.

[scarletwoman]

6. The mainstream Democrats are kinder, gentler imperialists...

but imperialists all the same.

sw

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. *lol*

---------------------------------------------------------
"We the people" have no voice in the USA!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

[blm]

3. His record on the environment and civil rights was actually

left of many of the other Dem nominees. I believe his enviro record was rated close to Kerry's.

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. If DU is your only source of information about him

you will get a skewed picture of him.

[karlrschneider]

11. Well, DU isn't my only source for -anything-, although it's one of the

most reliable ones. :D
I just think Joe is something of a dichotomy. I've voted in every election since 1964 and try to keep up with the body politic. ;-)

[theboss]

5. Lieberman is an old-school Democrat

Which makes him the enemy of a lot of folks here.

Domestically, it's hard to find a better Senator. On foreign policy, he's an interventionist. That's what a lot of Dems were in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

[B0S0X87]

7. Come to think of it, that's pretty close to the truth

Democrats during the post-FDR era were usually very anti-Communist as well as only moderately socially liberal. However, the bedrock of the party back then was organized labor, and Joe isn't very close to groups like the AFL-CIO.

[LoZoccolo]

10. 90s too.

Don't forget Kosovo.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Except that he supported the civil rights movement during the 60's

when many Democrats were opposing it.

[theboss]

25. Again, his demonization here is so unfair

You won't find better Senators on issues like race, the environment, and poverty who aren't named Ted Kennedy. He believes in an aggressive foreign policy...much like old Democrats with names like Jack Kennedy.

It just never ceases to amaze me how Robert Byrd (who I've voted for and admire in many ways) is a hero here while Lieberman is a villian. It's as if there were no politics prior to 2001.

[Tinoire]

21. Ah yes... you mean the Scoop Jackson Democrats now known as neocons?

The same school that spawned Richard Perle (former staffer for Sen. Jackson and still a Democrat to this day), Wolfowitz? Those Democrats? Oh yea.. That was the beginning of the damn cancer that's destroying BOTH parties. True conservatives are NOT at all happy with these little "Scoop Jackson" Democrats commonly known as Neo-cons. Those who stayed in the Democratic Party, like Lieberman are known as neo-Liberals. Same nasty cancer. And I have the same disdain for ALL of them. Those aren't traditional Democrats- those are the CANCER CELL that are trying to snuff out traditinal Democrats and traditional Republicans to merge them all into one big pro-war, imperialistic party.

===

Scoop Jackson's protégés shaping Bush's foreign policy

WASHINGTON — As legacies go, few elected officials from the state cast a longer shadow than the late (Democratic Senator from Everett) Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson, who served 31 years in the Senate and launched two unsuccessful presidential campaigns.

(snip)

But it's easy to understand why Jackson's hawkish views are suddenly in vogue: Many of the young aides who were drawn to work for Jackson in the 1970s because of his unwavering opposition to the Soviet Union now help shape the Bush administration's foreign policy.

At one time, these Jackson Democrats advocated building more nuclear weapons in an effort to hobble world communism. Many have since joined the Republican Party and rally around new foreign-policy buzzwords: "regime change."

(snip)

Peter Jackson, the senator's son, said some admirers of his father's position on foreign policy forget Jackson's efforts to preserve wilderness and enact environmental policies. ((enter Lieberman who stayed behind to tend the environment))

(snip)

The list of former Jackson staff members reads like a who's who of foreign-policy experts.

• Richard Perle is an adviser to the Defense Department and considered a major influence on Bush administration foreign policy.

• Doug Feith is undersecretary of defense for policy at the Pentagon.

• Elliott Abrams, special assistant to the president focusing on Middle East affairs, worked as special counsel to Jackson.

Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of defense and one of Bush's Iraq policy experts, never served directly under Jackson. But they had a long relationship that began when Wolfowitz, then a 29-year-old graduate student, helped Jackson prepare charts when the senator wanted to persuade fellow lawmakers to fund an antiballistic-missile program in 1969.

(snip)

Many former Jackson staff members became disillusioned with the Democratic Party during the Carter administration and later supported President Reagan. As a group, they were known as the "neoconservatives," or neocons.

(snip)

"The Rumsfeld Defense Department is as close to Jackson as any publicly identifiable group," biographer Kaufman said. He remembers a Henry M. Jackson Foundation dinner in Washington, D.C., three years ago attended by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Perle, Abrams and Wolfowitz.

(snip)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001834779_jackson12m.html

[theboss]

27. So, Jack Kennedy was not a "traditional democrat" but a "cancer"

Because he wasn't too damn far from Scoop Jackson.

I want to know in what NeverNeverLand Democrats were always Pro-Peace/Pro-Social Justice. Scoop Jackson was the mainstream in this Party his entire career. That brand of Democrat didn't emerge until the mid 70s and are only elected from urban House Districts.

[LoZoccolo]

29. Democrats have traditionally been interventionists.

And these traditional conservatives you talk about, these isolationists, aren't exactly imagining all the people living life in peace. Dig deeper, and you'll find out that many of them think all these countries have cultures so inferior to ours that they are not worth bothering with because they'll fuck everything up after we leave. It's a very arrogant and nationalistic (and fittingly right-wing) philosophy.

Me? I cannot stand to think we'd sit around and flash peace signs and hope it'd all stop if some dictator somewhere else was committing acts of ethnic cleansing or what not. Or that our leadership would have to avoid doing something just because someone else is busy misconstruing it as imperialism because they do so in all cases because it fits their simplified story of how they see the world. Such a position does not value human life or peace.

[LoZoccolo]

9. No, he's just not the person people say he is here.

The "Bush* Lite" charges are a stretch.

[Senator Lamb]

13. hey

wasnt he even in favor of reperations for blacks?

[leesa]

15. He is a war mongering Bush worshipping POS.

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. Because he voted for the Iraqi War Resolution? So did Kerry and a lot of

other Democrats who are not "a war mongering Bush worshipping POS."

[LoZoccolo]

22. Thanks for your blunt, but edifying criticism/self-criticism session.

I am now on the shining path. If the Chairman were only alive to see me now.

[MuseRider]

12. I like old Joe

but I would not want to have to vote for him for President. Did not really care to vote for him as vice but I did. He is reliable, you always know where you stand with him and that is not a bad thing, I just think he is way too hawkish for me.

[leesa]

17. Do you also like the list of progressive professors he and Lynne Cheney

drafted in order to blackball them? Book-burning anyone?

[MuseRider]

18. I was not talking

about him politically, read what I said. I like old Joe, you know where he stands. I would not want to vote for him. Jeeze, sure, I love a good book burning. :eyes:

[leesa]

14. No. He's playing to the audience. He is a total fraud.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. So you think that he will support Bush's Social Security plan?

:shrug:

[OutsourceBush]

16. he kisses repuke ass every other day

He even kissed the Nazi S Hannity's ass on his radio show.

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Did you watch the Daily Show tonight?

Where he talked about opposing Bush's Social Security plan and the problem of global warming?

[Edgewater_Joe]

26. Not "Pretty Funny" - He SLAYED Tonight!

"John McCain and I lip-synched (to the oath of office), so we're both President."

"I'm going to a party with some Democrats ... and we'll try to be happy."

And the killer exchange ...

STEWART: So how do you (hang out with Republicans)?
LIEBERMAN: I have a high tolerance for pain.

Biggest laugh I had all day ... aside from THE DAILY SHOW "Republican ball" clip of what I think wsa from CALIGULA scored by the guy that sang "Let The Eagles Soar" this afternoon.

Makes me glad I didn't see a second of it during the day, and only saw what I saw on THE DAILY SHOW.

FREEDOM 27 - LIBERTY 15

[question everything]

28. But he was funny, and smart and articulated all the things that

Bush is nnot

[liberalpragmatist]

30. Joe gets a bum rap, although I disagree with him a lot on strategy

Ideologically he's actually quite mainstream, and even on foreign policy were Joe Lieberman President we'd still have a significantly better foreign policy than under Bush. For all his rhetoric, he still is more interested in diplomacy and cooperation than Bush.

Also, as many have said, on many domestic issues he's very good, especially the environment.

He's also quite funny and really a nice guy.

I even think he'd probably have won had he been the nominee. However, I'm glad he wasn't the nominee, because...

I have some MAJOR disagreements with him. He's way too pro-Corporate. I think it's because he genuinely believes in a lot of that, but I still can disagree with him for it. I'm not a far-leftist or anything, but I still think there should be much stronger business regulation than Joe is willing to consider.

Also, his rhetoric is way too accomodationist. He's obsessed with trying to be bipartisan and forge compromise. There's nothing wrong with that as a Senator, but as a President and a leader of the party? No. The party needs strong leadership that isn't afraid to charge in one direction. Lieberman would be way too accomodationist.

He also was way over-the-top in his criticism of the left-wing of the party during the primaries in a way that was not helpful and almost treasonous.

I don't hate him. I like him and I think he's a good senator. But I'm glad he's not the party leader.