Could the Iraq War be a red herring? Could the real war be here at home?

[JohnnyCougar]

When examining George Bush's Social security plan, it seems like it is another attempt at bankrupting our government and diminishing its power. But I notice a pattern: everything Bush has done has achieved this very same end. The Iraq war is one of them. Social Security the other. His trade policies weaken the dollar. His foreign policies weaken America around the world.

I fail to believe that this is all a coincidence. It is part of a larger strategy to eliminate federal government power except in the area of defense and punishment.

A victory in Iraq is not necessary for Bush's plan to succeed. I fail to believe they really thought their "Shock and Awe" plan would work. They really didn't care, as long as they got a hold of the oil, and it cost a lot of government money. They created a huge defecit and bankrupted the Social Security trust fund. The PNAC could be a red herring as well. There is no way anyone cold ever believe that the US military could take over all the countries on that list. It is there to distract us from the war at home. The war between the corporations and the federal government. The less the feds are able to provide, the more the corporations can provide. And without the federal government to check corporations, there is nothing stopping them from creating a monopoly and screwing the consumers as much as possible.

So does a failing Iraq policy hurt the Bushes plans? No. It only hurts the federal government, the people of Iraq, and most importantly, our soldiers. And it distracts people from the war that is going on at home. Just like it was intended.

[PATRICK]

1. The plan does not matter

The reality is that the essence of America as a bastion of democracy and civil law is under attack. In all scenarios it is the soul and power for good that is under assault whatever the intentions or plans.

IF the gambit and bluffs prevail and the Ponzi capitalism is allowed to fall under US dominance Iraq is small potatoes. In many curious ways the administration shows its colors by looking indolent or uncaring about Iraq or even the other "knock off" schemes.

It isn't about America UNLESS the real psychological sickness of W is that he hates America for never voting for him and his father fairly. it is about various egos creating an atmosphere of re-enslavement of humanity with tempting global ambitions.

[MisterP]

2. this is actually planned for by Grover Norquist: he wants the fed. gov.

small enough to "drown in a bathtub"

[Sir Jeffrey]

3. I've said before that Bin Laden and Bush have the same goals...

If you (not you specifically) only stop to consider the facts. Both have taken action to bankrupt the US, OBL has admitted this. OBL wanted the Arab Socialist Hussein out of power, so did Bush. OBL uses weapons to terrorize innocents, so does Bush. OBL justifies his actions through God, so does Bush. I could go on and on.

So that leads us to this question:

as you indicated, the real war is here at home between the anti-human corporate/heirarchical structure and pro-human collective thought. What does OBL ultimately desire as his goal?

The answer: theocracy. Is Bush taking any steps toward theocracy? You bet.

You said it yourself: he is taking funding away from OUR government i.e. the progressive legislation and regulatory consumer/citizen protections.

This is frightening to me...

[JohnnyCougar]

4. I feel like the shadow of Mordor is on the rise.

Where is our Gandalf?

[Kikosexy2]

6. Thank you...

for the enlightenment...this is something I've never considered in their scheme of things. Indeed it is frightening! God, someone please must stop these lunatics!!!

[Sir Jeffrey]

9. Yes it is frightening but take heart...

we now have access to unlimited reams of information over the internet that 20 years ago was not there. Everyday Americans can now read the Guardian daily for free, or listen to the latest speech by Noam Chomsky, or see pictures of casualties from Iraq that our monarch doesn't want us to see.

In the past progressives and liberals had to struggle in the dark with little access to information. IMO that is why Fahrenheit 9/11 was so damn frightening. Here was all the information kept out of the debate in America put in front of them finally. More people will continue to see it and realize how much they are being lied to.

And remember too that we came closer than we ever had before to unseating a "president" in a time of war. Will Pitt was right: the ** security detail on 1/20 was not to protect him from terraists: it was to protect him from the American citizens.

He is just about finished as a relevant political figure. I keep telling my wife that sooner or later people will get tired of war, tired of being poor, not having enough to pay for school, or medication, or car insurance, etc. while the millionaires and CEOs get to buy yet another "ivory backscratcher." We're almost there.

[immoderate]

10. Optimistic(!?)...but I like it.

I think Social Security might prove to be the proverbial third rail.

--IMM

[Sir Jeffrey]

12. Definitely optimistic...

The best thing about not being in power is that you cannot be blamed for how bad things are.

[Kikosexy2]

11. And tired...

of Republican politics and politicians. Please let it come sooner than later. Amen!

[oecher3]

5. smashing idea...

... never thought of it that way, but you certainly bring up a great point. But how would you think you bring this point to people that would otherwise look at you and think "conspiracy nerd, get real, this is not that deep!" and you know that people would react that way.
Or to view it from the historic point of view, how could the Germans have stopped the Nazis from taking over while most people said, " your conspiracy theory is going to far, they will never do that! That would be outrageous and nobody would try to conquer the world"?
There must be a way to come up with a counter argument!

---Not that I am trying to confuse your idea with the thought of Bush being a Neonazi, that would be again another discussion. ---

[Sir Jeffrey]

7. I have had this exact discussion with my wife...

when I tell her "Bush is a war criminal" she understands it and discusses it in intellectual terms. If I tried to tell that to my mother-in-law, who still happens to think that Hussein has WMDs, I might as well be talking to a brick wall.

I'd like to get the OPs opinion on explaining without sounding fruity, but as for me, I have given up trying to explain to people a lot of things. It is too frustrating and has cost me a lot of friends and family. People are supposed to think for themselves, but they don't.

IMO you are supposed to learn to think independently in college, but what i have seen at my school is an effective method of brainwashing which i have discussed in another thread.

Remember, a lot of people are not exposed to the information we know how to access. I think of my duty as trying to get others to expose themselves to the information they are not getting. It helps if you read a lot and can remember where you have read something. I also try to remember that, yes, at one point, I too was a conservative and became a liberal/progressive/socialist/commie pinko bastard only after intensely studying history, politics, social theory, advertising, the law, government policy, and other societies for several years. But if someone would rather believe the lies, there is not much anyone can do. We tend to flock to those who will support our ideas and worldview. Hell, that's why I am at DU :)

[JohnnyCougar]

8. My opinion on how to say it without sounding fruity:

When you are told you are crazy, just say "that's what the Germans said when Hitler was taking over Germany."

The trick is to say it flippantly, like THEY are the ones that don't know what they are talking about. They are more insecure about their views than you, most likely, because they certainly pay less attention to what is going on than you do.

Other than that, it's hard to get through to brainwashed people.