I am a guy partial to the military. My son was in DS1 with the 101

[opihimoimoi]

I have a Nam vet lving in my workshop for the past 18 months...he is one of them walking wounded guys....

and now, I find myself helping other grunts coming back from Afghanistan...

These are high level sargents///the E8 level. Guess how the Army treats these guys....no bonus to re up. They get the worst housing on base...the best housing/quarters goes to the younger troopers who get $15,000 to re up. My friends are bitter and will leave the Army after 20 years of service......

I asked them how is it after giving the Army the best years of your adult lives...they treat you this way? Because they can.....was the answer. They just don care about those leaving......He even turned down a Sargent Major E9 position....

So WTF is going on in the Army that they do these sort of things to their own people? Treat them like trash...all used up and with high pay...they are envouraged to leave....It don make sense...does it?

I am flummoxed.

Come, we go drink.

[bo44]

1. Open one up

:toast: to the soldiers

[Cleita]

2. Because the Americans making these decisions today are

racist, homophobic elitists. They believe the world and everything in it exists for their benefit only and when you outlive your usefulness to them, they cast you aside like old torn clothes.

I'm drinking a scotch and soda. Cheers. :toast:

[RobertSeattle]

3. But they got the "lifers" by the short hairs

Quit prior to 20 and no retirement $$$. But I sure can see how it would suck to be a 18 year E-7 or E-8 and watch some punk SP4 gets a 15K bonus!

I've always though better housing goes with rank so I'm surprised that housing is being doled out based on re-ups - that doesn't make sense.

[quiet.american]

9. I hear you 100%

USAF 81-87, here --

But it starts to make sense to bribe the lower ranks when you've practically broken the military we have, instituted a "backdoor draft" and have troops deserting in droves....

Damn, I'm glad I didn't serve under this AWOL Baboon-in-Chief.

[stevedeshazer]

4. That's just a complete disgrace.

I've not been in the military, but that just seems like a really shitty way to treat people anywhere.

Thanks for what you're doing to help vets.

:toast:

[libertypirate]

5. Hey be level headed about this.....

this is serious. I mean it looks to me if they are squeezing people out in a time like this when we are at war there has got to be some reason.

The only thing I can think is they want "less qualified" or simply greener leadership in those ranks. Why do you put a less qualified soldier in a leader position when you already have qualified men doing the job?

There is one thing I know about junior leadership, they rely more on what they are told and don't ask what they don't know to ask.

They are also less likely to recognize what they are about to get into. Which pisses me off because it only increases body bags and dead people.

You should write your senators and representatives. I would detail your conversations and ask them if they could find out why this is occurring. You might get someone curious.

[Warpy]

6. Corporatism

corporate culture is responsible.

Check out some of the graduate level management courses some time. Read those books. They detail setting up formulas to determine when a seasoned, well trained, efficient employee becomes more expensive than training a fresh young kid who doesn't know squat. Older employees start to have health problems, and merit raises and promotions make them dent the corporate bottom line a little deeper than training some kid would.

This is now infecting all areas of this country.

This sort of "humans as commodity" to be used up and thrown out without a second thought when they start getting a little shabby or need a little maintenance is endemic.

It's why unions so wisely insisted on seniority rules so that vicious managers couldn't pull this shit on human beings who had devoted their lives to the companies for which they'd worked... or to the military they'd so nobly served.

We need to look at ourselves in this country and to figure out just what sort of country we want to live in. Our country no longer needs incremental change to tweak the social contract. There is no longer a social contract left to us. We need radical change, and the sooner the better.

[Karenina]

7. W-A-A-A-Y BACK in the wayback

over flavored vodka in a smoky Manhattan bar I was told by some "dissident" Russians attending Columbia, "The Soviet Union poses no threat to the U.S. America will be destroyed by the Harvard Business School."

[cmd]

11. BINGO

With no union brothers to back them up, the older employees are toast. Replace them with cheap labor. Replace the cheap labor with outsourcing. This is why unions are so important to me. I spent years fighting for the language in our contracts.

[cornermouse]

20. I think that you have the real reason.

Business without any restraints sees their employee's salaries as a drain on their bottom line. So they try to squeeze as much work for as little pay and benefits as they can. Those who develop serious illness which raises insurance fees are likely to find themselves unemployed although for stated reasons other than illness. I've seen that happen.

[scarletlib]

21. You said it so well. This is exactly what I think is the reason

for doing this.

[recovering democrat]

8. While we drink,

I refer you to two of my favorite sites. You probably already know them too.

http://www.hackworth.com/

http://www.sftt.org/

Hackworth is the inspiration of SFTT also.

Once in a rare while, a question actually gets answered and action actually gets taken because of the information in and out of here.

Can't hurt. Might help.

It only makes sense to chickenhawks who never served in the military and have no idea what they are doing. They love magnetic car decals.

:toast:

[opihimoimoi]

15. Sent following e mail to sysop

I rent bedrooms... 2 of my tenents are Military. I support the Military with acceptance of short term agreements to comply with their movements, something other landlords rarely do.

From what they are telling me, they will retire when their 20 year hitch is up....no bonus, and poor housing compared to the younger lessor grade guys who also recieve $15000 to re up....is their reason.

Why are we treating our non coms in this manner?

[Just Me]

18. Those are empowering sites!!! eom

[hollowdweller]

10. The soldiers are just underclass trash to the rich elite that run the US

Why do companies lay off people that have worked for 30 years and cut off their pensions? It's the same principle.

[Cleopatra2a]

12. Are you saying he is getting out before retirement?

From a practical point of view, why give someone a bonus who will probably stay in anyway? The Air Force was giving out 60K bonuses to people who cross-trained into networking. Now they have too many and are cutting slots and bonuses. The part about the housing is strange, would not happen in the Air Force. I am fortunate that after 20 years (next spring), I can retire, not have to work and enjoy life.

Why didn't he take the E-9 slot? He probably would have had to move to another base. My SO says I will have a hard time adjusting to regular life. I hope not! I did get a little ticked off when we went to the tax office and no one stood up!! HAHA!

[opihimoimoi]

13. In 4 months, he will retire.....meanwhile, he will stay at my house

.....then off to Texas where he comes from...

BTW, he did vote for Kerry.....he KNOWs what the Pubs are up to..and many of his friends too.

[DrBB]

14. Ever hear of the "Bonus Army March" of 1932?

Congress had overridden Herbert Hoover’s veto of a veterans’ compensation act early in 1932, which provided some relief for ex-servicemen, but also fueled sentiment for having payments made in cash. Such requests were swiftly rejected by Republican leaders who believed that such irresponsible action would only deepen the nation’s woes.

In late May, a group of veterans numbering around 1,000 came to Washington, D.C. to lobby for their cause. Many of these were unemployed and homeless, and they vowed to remain in the nation’s capital until favorable legislation was passed. As the weeks went by, the so-called Bonus Expeditionary Force (BEF) grew to more than 17,000. Many of these took up residence at a camp outside of the city on the banks of the Anacostia River*; others made homes for themselves in vacant government buildings and even on the lawn of the Capitol. Despite the swelling numbers, the on-going demonstrations remained essentially peaceful.

Here's more... Short version: it didn't turn out well for the poor bastards. Tear gas, dogs, riot police, and 100 vets injured. Not to mention a dead baby.

Republicans have a long and hallowed tradition of fucking over vets. Hey, only losers go into the military, and it's a winner's world, baby. I got mine so fuck off.

The GOP mindset was ever thus.

[opihimoimoi]

16. Its heartrendering and sickening the Pubs who are so vocal

re the Military...would be so callous when its time to help those who helped them... its a stab in the back...the bastards, and they wonder why the anger level is up...they should look at the mirror more often.

[Just Me]

17. There is one POWER no one can take from you,...

,...the POWER to speak.

I have great compassion for those muddling through hardship, having lived through my own. The POWER to speak pulled me through.

There are many ACTIVE channels for your voices. I've connected with several military family groups who could serve as a source for you to excercise your power. You can also work together to become your own 527 or PAC.

I regret that you all feel abandoned. Just try to unite in the one power no one can steal,...the power of expression.

:hug:

The power of your voice has touched many individuals,...who pass on the power. Never underestimate your influence.

[opihimoimoi]

19. These guys are so loyal they wouldn't think of it.....Its guys like us who

really see the wrongdoing that know something is amiss.