Do you believe adding slot machines in a city would do more harm than good

[RagingInMiami]

Here in Miami, it looks like there is going to be a vote in March as to whether or not slot machines should be allowed in dog tracks and jai alai frontons, where gambling is already allowed.
Some argue that it would bring in more money that could be used for education.
Others argue that it would drain money that would otherwise be spent in stores, causing a loss in sales tax.
I'm leaning more towards the first argument. What do you guys think?

[JHBowden]

1. Don't do it!

Maybe I'm just used to Illinois politics, but that much of that money will *not* be spent on "education."

[JimmyJazz]

2. It's a good question. I know slots are legal in Delaware and that

Delaware does not have a sales tax. I also know that Delaware's property/school taxes are a mere pittance compared to what I pay just over the line in Pennsylvania (aka Taxylvania). I don't know if that is as a result of slot machines or not.

[RagingInMiami]

3. so how would you compare delaware's education system to penns?

[JimmyJazz]

15. That is the rub, sir. Delaware's school system is a mess, but

it's not from lack of money. I'll try to keep this as simple as possible (I'll try not to start flame bait in the lounge) -- Delaware was charged with violating Brown v. Board sometime ago. They were in clear violation, too. To correct the problem, they tried busing and "school choice" and all sorts of other things.

In essence, what it amounts to, is that little kids are on a bus for 45 minutes ONE WAY - traveling up and down a main interstate. It's insane. Plus, with the inner city schools, many don't have separate playgrounds, but they have recess in a nearby public park. Prior to the children coming out, the playgrounds have to be checked for broken glass, garbage, etc.

[hippiechick]

4. They've been talking about slots to fund a new dome in Indy ...

Cause of course the godd*mn Colts organization won't pay for their own friggin' stadium.

[Newsjock]

5. Excellent editorial from Missoula

Where mini-casinos (20 poker/keno machines) are practically on every street corner.
http://missoulian.com/articles/2005/01/22/opinion/opinion6.txt

Montanans wagered $868.3 million on legal gambling, such as video poker, lotteries and horse racing, in fiscal year 2004. That's a lot of money - averaging $944 for every man, woman and child in the state.

Well, that's one way of looking at it. However, averaging gambling expenditures on a per-capita basis distorts the picture a bit. Crunch the numbers a bit more, and the picture is more disturbing.

... But we can't help looking at those gambling expenditures in the context of Montana's 45th-in-the-nation per-capita income of about $25,000 a year. Is it really any wonder that so many Montanans can't get ahead?

Take that $1,600 wagered each year by the average Montanan who gambles and put it into a savings account or modestly performing mutual fund - earning, say 5 percent a year - and over 10 years you'd likely amass $20,000. If that doesn't sound like all that much money, try multiplying it by the more than 534,000 adults who likely gamble in Montana. It amounts to over $10 billion.

more

[soothsayer]

16. I guess if you took all the money people wasted on movies, and

video games, and other recreational activities and made them save it instead they'd be better off, too. So people like to gamble for fun? You can't spend your own money as you wish?

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. That's how they convinced us to approve gambling in MO

They told us the profits would go to education.

And they do, but it's just a mere drop in the bucket of the statewide education budget. And everytime any school district says they need more money, someone says but what about all that gambling money?

So it's kind of a pain. And I like to gamble.

[CountAllVotes]

11. I like to gamble too but

where I live they have a couple Indian casinos. You can lose a lot very fast. It is fun (I guess?) but in the long run I'm better off if I just stay the hell away from these places. :(

:kick:

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Indian casinos are the best

I almost always win there.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Legalized gambling is a sneak preview of Libertarianism.

Basically, it's making a profit off human weakness. If those weaknesses were not exploited, perhaps the people that succumb to gambling (obsessive compulsive behavior) would be resorting to something that is legal and productive. But, once they get into gambling, it may be a venture which will leave them and their families bankrupt.

Because you do have people now hooked on it, expect crime to sour as they attempt to get money to pay for their habit. Also, somewhere around there, expect the mob to move in.

[RagingInMiami]

10. Mobsters have been making Miami their second home for years

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. Might I suggest that we make it a little less profitable for them?

[McKenzie]

12. you are right about the mob thing

I'm not against gambling per se because it is a choice thing. However, its addictive nature is a cause for concern.

My main point though is that, wherever a lucrative enterprise like gambling sets up, the mob are usually involved somewhere. Licences have to be granted, there is scope for avoiding taxation, fixing the odds and so on.

Difficult subject. Perhaps we should be asking if it is appropriate to fund children's education that way.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. Some of those children whose schools benefit from gambling profits

may also have parents who beat them; who drive them into the poor house because they can't hold jobs due to their gambling habit. How many of those child casualties are worth the experiment?

[McKenzie]

27. Very good point there. My answer would have to be not one n/t

[RagingInMiami]

8. Another argument down here is that they would create more jobs

But other than the people who go around providing change, and maybe a few repair people, I don't see that many jobs created by slots.

[Viking12]

29. False argument

Gambling revenues are derived from discretionary income that would be spent somewhere else if not on slots. Overall, there is no economic benefit. To the contrary, gambling and other recreational/tourist business often diverts expenditures away from industries that create long-term, stable, and higher wage jobs.

[fishwax]

9. They put the money in education, but education funding DOES NOT increase

Well, that's a common pattern around the country, at least, when gambling and lotteries are approved. They may earmark the money from the lottery for education, but then eventually (after a few years) redirect the money that had previously gone into education.

Hey, the school's are getting all this money from the lottery, so we as a legislature don't really need to give them quite so much, do we?

I think that most of the time, it changes the source of the funding more than it changes the amount.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. I think slots are the work of true evildoers

They suck in people least able to afford to gamble. They give false hope. Plus, once every state has them (as it seems some people are trying to accomplish) there will be fewer players per slot and they'll not generate the profits it was hoped they would provide. All we'll have is people spending money they don't have for winnnings they'll never get.

Raise taxes on the upper income folks and get on with life. Slots are the height of regressivism.

Evil, pure evil.

[soothsayer]

18. slots are fun!

A sucker bet, yes, but fun!

[CountAllVotes]

24. gambling - "passifier of the poor"

ain't it the truth?

:kick:

[Longgrain]

17. I think they were thinking about it in MA

I know floating casinos are allowed up here. There's also a couple of Indian Casinos in Conn. and I can tell you from experience that some of that money has at least been put into the highway system...

[ClassicDem]

19. Here in Oregon we have Video Poker

That and the Lottery are the only taxes people line up to pay. I don't have a problem with it,if people want to spend their money on it thats fine with me.

[oneold1-4u]

28. Where money goes---

With little or no control, the OR gambling became graft from the beginning with bad appointments (political friends) to create and operate it. They still give little or no accounting to the people of the actual use of the funds and amounts dispersed to whom. They did set up, almost immediately, a GA organization which the Indian casinos also support. If that is anything like thousands of other organizations to benefit mankind, someone(s) is likely overpaid and still helping themselves most!
I do know for a fact that the bars and taverns (where machines are located) and ticket vendors, receive millions more than the education system which was the purpose that sold the public on the idea in the first place. Once the general public decides this is wrong somehow, at least Oregonians can change things with a legitimate ballot!
We certainly do make mistakes, and have changed many things. It is nice not to have to leave your own home to give voice on the ballot.
There was a study done here on OR machines, Indian machines compared to Nevada. The state machines were the lowest percentage pay, then Indian, but both far below what Nevada Gaming Comm. requires of the machines there.
I do love to play and hope my small donations (Indian casinos) will allow me and/or descendants to remain in the domain, once they buy it all back!!!!LOL

[smbolisnch]

20. We have slot machines here.

I haven't seen a dime of it go to our community and certainly not to education. :shrug:

[dsc]

21. When I lived in Ohio, I voted in favor of legalized casino gambling twice

then I moved to Mississippi which has legalized casino gambling and never would again. The town I lived in had one department store, two major grociers, but three pawn shops, several check into cash places, and even a few title loan places. We also were a half hour from a casino. I got broken into twice there, and never anywhere else. I would never support legalized casino type gambling no matter what the money went to.

[RebelOne]

25. If they do add slot machines, I may move back to Miami

Here in Georgia, all gambling machines are banned.

[HawkerHurricane]

26. Gambling:

A tax on people bad at math.

There is no casino run game of chance that pays out more than it takes in. There is no method to beat the house; and if there were, the house would change the rules so that the method didn't work anymore.

That said...

If a adult wants to lose his money on a slot machine, why not let him? For me to decide 'you can't do that, you'll hurt yourself' isn't right... and leads down a slippery slope. "You can't drink alchohol, you'll hurt yourself, you can't own a gun, you can't have a car, you can't read that book, you can't see that movie, etc. etc. etc." Let adults decide for themselves, and if they make bad decisions let them suffer for it.

[Blue Wally]

30. SoFla already has slot machines (and other forms of gambling)

Between several large 9and untaxed) indian gambling establishments and several "cruises to no where" that run outside the three-mile limit and begin slots, craps, and blackjack, there are plenty of ways to lose your money gambling in SoFla. There is also the state run lottery with a multiplicity of lottos and scratch-off games. What is being proposed is to allow slot machines at the jai alai fontons, dog tracks, and horse tracks in SoFla. These are three dying industries here. Theiir devotees are getting older and rarer. Their "betting handles" are virtually dissappearing. I just can't see saving any of those industries. If they were like NASCAR, they could make their money out of the price of admission and sponsorships. Instead, they are only kept alive by betting. Let's do the jai alai, thoroughbred, and greyhound "athelets" a favor and retire them forever.

[spinbaby]

31. Slots are coming to my neighborhood

Western PA. Next year, I think. Aside from the traffic, I don't think they're going to do the area that much harm because we already have slots nearby in West Virginia. The compulsive gamblers will just find it a bit more convenient to gamble.