How can anyone love Christ AND bush at the same time?

[mopaul]

How can the idiots who claim to be Christians support the Biblical slaughter of innocent people by the hundreds of thousands?

How can a person who claims to support Jesus, support a man who is so OBVIOUSLY Satanic?

I suspect that it is deliberate delusion. You see something right in front of you, but your pride and urge to be correct blinds you to the truth. If you show a Christian bush supporter photos of DEAD CHILDREN who never harmed us, they instantly start justifying it with pre-fabricated talking points from a fat, drug addled maniac on the radio.

HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW do you get through to these assholes?

[lastknowngood]

1. They can't! As a matter of fact you can't be a repug and love

or believe anything Christ said. Everything the monsters stand for are against the teachings of Christ. Remember these are not Christians they are members of the "Jesus Cult" they spout his name to justify anything they want without ever embracing anything he said.

[Clark2008]

3. Amen!

And applause.

Wish they'd read the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. That might wake up some of the more intelligent and/or caring ones.

[bkcc]

2. It's willful ignorance disguised as "faith".

I agree. It is insanely frustrating to deal with people like this.

[terrya]

4. They don't understand what Christ really stood for in his teachings.

If one really reads the New Testament and reads Christ's teachings, you would discover that Jesus was...well, a socialist, actually. He sure as fuck wasn't about waging perpetual war or ignoring the less fortunate in this country or giving even more money to the ultra wealthy in the form of onerous tax cuts.

It's denial to these people. I don't know if you can get through to those assholes.

[Tigress DEM]

40. I think the WWJD movement offers some clarity

The idea is to look at the words and deeds of Christ and sort out the rest of the things around him and see how he responded to things.

There were Disciples that wanted Jesus to lead the revolution - I'm bad at instant recall, but I'm fairly sure that Judas - The Iscariot, was one of those who advocated violent overthrow and when he knew Jesus wouldn't take them that way did his little bit to make room for a more aggressive leader.

I like the Bible "The Way" it's written a bit more contemporary and I think they put things together in a more linear fashion is some places that show what was going on without having to rely so heavily on annotations.

[vixengrl]

5. I think it's definitely self-delusion

and that it comes from people not thinking very deeply about what it is they profess to believe. It is one thing for Bush to talk about morality, and faith--he does so with a lot of sincerity in his voice--but it its what he *does* that is the test. "By their fruits ye shall know them." I'm not sure what gets through to people though--denial is pretty strong, because if their belief in and support of Bush is challenged, it's like a challenge to their own morality and faith.

[Tigress DEM]

44. Ask a Christian to hate one of Bush's particular sins...

Gee, which one to choose, there are so many.

Ask a Christian if they believe in torturing innocent people. Any Christian worth their salt will say, "No." Then point out Bush says one thing and does another about torture.

His statement that he does not "condone" torture, yet his support of continuing INDEFINATELY to imprison those who were tortured and were never shown to be guilty of any crime in Guantanamo Bay.... His sin in appointing the man who dismissed the Geneva Convention as "quaint" may require EXPLAINING how the Geneva Convention gave POWs a small chance to return home without irreversable damage. But the bottom line is that if Bush doesn't "condone" torture he shouldn't appoint someone who does to Attourney General.

[depakid]

6. Because someone calls themself a Christian

doesn't make it so. One cannot both ardently support Republican policies AND be Christian. The 2 sets of concepts are diametrically opposed.

Anyone who says otherwise either hasn't read the Gospels or doesn't know anything about Republican policies.

[seeker4ever]

7. Rationalization

They can read the Sermon on the Mount and then tell you why capital punishment is good. They are what might be called... ass holes.

We all seek a "religion" that confirms our own prejudices. They start as assholes and end as even bigger "God" sanctioned assholes.

Allways have, allways will.

Arguing the 'Bible' is allways a tail chasing endeavor. It says everything and nothing. It says what _you_ want it to. Just look long enough.

[Ms_Mary]

8. Denial, ignorance and misplaced blind faith.

[salinen]

9. Could it be

as simple as that they are damaged humans who are now in the majority and the republicans gathered them up by virtue of there shear numbers?

[seabeyond]

10. love Christ AND bush at the same time?

you changed the inside of your post from your header

how can people love christ and bush at the same time. i will tell you how. talking to a christian teacher of my sons holding a bible up to me telling me things will only get worse, i told her i cna love the lying bush. the dishonest corrupt cheating bush. i do not need to recreate bush into a man of god, honest good christian in a false story to love him.

that is what they are doing wrong. jesus loved the prostitute. he didnt have to change her story to love her.

we cannot change the story on who bush is in order to give him love, or at that point we walk away from christ conscious and start living in a story that we cannot see any longer the reality. we then have to protect and hide our eyes to continue on with this false stories, ignoring all the stuff that comes along to refute said story created

i can live in christ conscious and love the lying cheating stealing bush.

[Tigress DEM]

39. Loving a sinner is one thing.. Voting and promoting is another

Jesus may have loved the prostitute and made her understand she was simply another flawed human being, but he didn't go back to her crib and hop in.

I do believe in gently bringing the Christian Right back to reality. They are like people hypnotized and if they blindly followed Bush they need to get fed the truth in doses they can digest until their eyes can see.

Now there are people on the far left banging the truth over their heads. Ironically THAT a Christian can dismiss as persecution. Feeds right into the methods of control the repubs set up. But an honest Christian pointing out the truths about the reality of what Bush is doing can only convert them towards getting rid of the liar - even if they choose to hold many of their other beliefs.

[GOPFighter]

11. Everyone has a dark place inside them

Where we keep our pent up anger and hate and frustration. Most of us realize that and fight the urge to lash and take our anger out on others. More importantly we used to have respected leaders, religious, political, and in the media, who had principles. They resisted appealing to American's dark sides, knowing the terrible things that can happen when a nation's dark side prevails.

This has all changed. Republicans and religious nuts have found that appealing to people's dark sides results in power and wealth. They don't give a damn about the consequences because to them it's all about power and wealth. America needs new leaders with principles and conviction who can put America's evil genie back in the bottle.

[BamaLefty]

12. Well, This Christian Is A Proud Democrat

The others are so misguided...

[SmokingJacket]

13. That is a really interesting way to look at it.

If you refuse to acknowledge that you HAVE a dark side, then other people can use it and manipulate it.

Maybe liberals are just people who understand that they have the potential to do evil, and consciously fight it.

[0007]

37. It may be to late to put the genie back in the bottle.

The opiate has already been administered.

[norml]

14. The "Conservative" Sermon On The Mount

The "Conservative" Sermon On The Mount


Blessed are the rich for all good things trickle down from them. Cursed are the poor for poverty results from their moral failings. Blessed are the war makers for they keep freedom on the march. Cursed are the peacemakers for they shall be called appeasers. Blessed are those who inflict harsh punishments for they maintain law and order. Cursed are those who forgive for they shall be called soft on crime. Blessed are those who pray loudly standing in the churches and on the corners sounding the trumpet before them. Cursed are those who shut the closet door and pray in secret for their prayers are not heard. Blessed are those who cast the first stone for the sake of sexual morality for that is the only morality that matters. Cursed are those who see sexuality as a private matter for marriage must be defended against them.

I wrote this and I offer it to be distributed.

[MsConduct]

19. Great job! I love it! n/t

[seeker4ever]

20. Well fricken' said!!!!

[Ms_Mary]

22. I commend you for writing that. I would love to distribute it.

[norml]

26. Go ahead, I would love it if you do.

You may distribute it anonymously, or if you want to put my name to it, my name is Brian Mary, first name Brian, last name Mary.

[Ms_Mary]

27. Thank you.

[Solly Mack]

28. Love it!!!

:thumbsup:

[DemonFighterLives]

34. You've really captured their creed

Great job.

[mopaul]

38. the Be-an-ass-itudes....

thanks norml.

[Tigress DEM]

45. Awesome! Norml n/t

[RevCheesehead]

51. May I add to it?

"Blessed are you when you say evil and horrible things about others, for you will win election campaigns. But cursed are those who take the moral high ground, for they shall be smeared beyond recognition; for others who have come before have also been smeared and destroyed."

[AnnInLa]

15. They are proud of it and "in your face" with it....Scalia in Baton Rouge

http://www.theadvocate.com/stories/012305/new_scalia001...

(Scalia visits the KCs in Baton Rouge)

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said Saturday that people of faith should not fear being viewed by "educated circles" as "fools for Christ."

The justice -- in Baton Rouge to address the Knights of Columbus Council 969 centennial celebration without charging a fee -- told a largely Roman Catholic crowd of 350 at the Holiday Inn Select that there's nothing wrong with "traditional Christianity."

"To believe in traditional Christianity is something else," Scalia said. "For the son of God to be born of a virgin? I mean, really. To believe that he rose from the dead and bodily ascended into heaven? How utterly ridiculous. To believe in miracles? Or that those who obey God will rise from the dead and those who do not will burn in hell?

"God assumed from the beginning that the wise of the world would view Christians as fools ... and he has not been disappointed."

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. There in lies the rub

because you can't follow Jesus and follow George. That's why Jesus said no one can come to the father, except through me.

[Tigress DEM]

47. King George in his NEW Mid E V I L reign

In Medevil times, those great Nobles who brought you such things as the "peasant tax" had a great 2 party system - which George is recreating here in the new Millenium.

Church - those who talk to God for the rest of us.
Nobles - God's annointed leaders who know what's best for us.
Peasants - those responsible for all the manufacturing and service positions and whose just compensation is dependent upon the whim of the Noblity.

[MsConduct]

17. They can't. To them Christian, Christianity, Christ and Jesus are

just buzz words they use to communicate with each other. There is no way the get through to them. Their hearts and minds are as cold as steel and welded shut.

[glaeken777]

23. Remember Zefferelli's Jesus...

The part where Barabbas (Stacy Keach) confronts Jesus (Robert Powell) and asks him to join the movement against Rome. Jesus politely refuses and instead asks him to forgive the Romans.

"Forgive the Romans?"
"But the Romans have slaughtered thousands... men women and children, all without trial!"
"Forgive them all. Your zeal blinds you to the truth!"

So, Christians... real ones, that is... must forgive Bush, despicable as he is. It really is tough to forgive the worst people. Jesus was right about that one.

[bvar22]

29. I will forgive them....

...right after I beat the unholy crap out of them.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Your are right, of course.
My rage diminishes my spirit, and allows me to forget what my true job is.
I am not entirely Christian.

[DemonFighterLives]

32. I was thinking along those lines

I'll forgive them after they are securely behind bars for their crimes against humanity. And they can start by paying the taxpayers back all the stolen funds. :)

[MsConduct]

52. Agreed, but that doesn't mean I have to like or respect any of them

n/t

[Tigress DEM]

48. Those would be the Pharisee equivilant, but a TRUE Christian..

can still be deceived and honestly have made the wrong choice for what they believed were the right reasons.

I suppose I would look at what Jesus said, "It is harder for a rich man to get into Heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of the needle"

It was a bit of a play on words as well as an admonishment to beware of becoming rich and unaware. The "eye of the needle" was a gate in Jerusalem that was an alternative to the often crowded main gate. But to get through it with a camel a person had to be determined and not overly proud because you had to completely unpack your camel and walk it through and repack it on the other side. Typical rich men of the time saw that as an action that was so far beneath them as to not even be considered.

TALK to a Christian for a minute or two and get their take on the whole "eye of the needle" bit and see where it leads before writing them off.

Christians who live in million dollar homes and figure they've done their bit when the write their checks to the needy will be shocked when they get to Heaven and probably are beyond help.

Christians who understand the day to day work that is faith, but were swept up in the propoganda of the repub election machine may still be salvagable.

[MsConduct]

53. They would have to wake up and wise up first. If ignorance of

the law is no excuse, then ignorance of what is really going on shouldn't be an excuse either. JMHO.

[Solly Mack]

18. I'm not entirely convinced Bushbots love themselves much less

anything or anyone else.

At least I wouldn't call what they feel love. Maybe a sick warped distorted version of love...

[amazona]

21. well what is love?

A fundy once told me that God's "love" was a bolt of good feeling that suddenly lit up his body out of nowhere. In that case, "love" of Jesus is no more meaningful than "love" of crack cocaine or "love" of a good orgasm. Me -- I would posit that "love" is more than a smug warm glow of self-satisfaction about how wonderful you are that an invisible spirit you have never seen has "chosen" you for some unknown purpose.

That isn't "love" for Jesus or anyone else. It is arrogance.

Jesus was very explicit about what you had to do to express love in action. "What you do to the least of these you do unto me."

He also spoke of the whited sepulchre. "Christian" Bush supporters are no more and no less than the modern-day Pharisees.

You can't "get through" to such people. They are willfully ignorant. Don't bother casting pearls before swine. Spend your time on those who are honestly seeking truth.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[ComerPerro]

24. Most fundies only pay lip service to Christ,

because, when you become born again, they tell you that all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ as your savior and you will get to heaven.

That's why they tend to treat other people like shit.

[PaDem]

25. I'm an Evangelical Christian..........

and I don't support Bush. In fact, I am way left of center politically.

The Christians you speak of have been fed lies and half truths from religious leaders for 30 years now. I say 30 because it seems that's about the time Christianity started to become completely synonamous with the Republican Party. Of course Christians have been fed lies and half truths from religious leaders since the beginning of the faith. The impact of people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell has been far reaching. They've had help from the Republican Party in building this machine. The message of national idealogues like Falwell spreads itself around to local religious leaders and the masses are indoctrinated.

The Democratic party, or more to the point some progressive thinkers, are now starting to have dialogue about how to best communicate with Christians. I've been working hard at it for years now myself. The bottom line is the right wing conservative Christian message is a mix of authentic Jesus and lies. The pressure is on those of us who are authentic Evangelical Christians to help those that have been duped to see with clarity where the right wing agenda of the neocons is contradictory with authentic Christianity. Likewise we must expose positions of hypocrisy where Christians are being used by the neocons (abortion is a perfect example).

The only people who can change any of this are progressive Evangelical Christians like me. Jim Wallis of Sojourners has been mentioned on this forum, he is a good example of someone fighting the battle on a national level. Right wing Christians will not listen to people "Outside the family" so to speak. The change has to come from within. I know many on this board would say "forget them". I can understand that, but winning now and in the future will be awfully tough for progressives if more Christians aren't pulled into their camp. The Christian/neocon relationship was built over time with a lot of hard work and effective propaganda. It can be, at least in part, undone with an equally effective effort from progressive Evangelical Christians.

[DemonFighterLives]

31. Great thoughts

It just all seems so hopeless at times. The media has been covering and supporting the regime. Once the house of cards begins to fall, people will become enlightened. A few good whistleblowers are needed to start to crack the armor.

[SuffragetteSal]

30. excellent question

I wish I could ask author Max Lucado who seems to have such influence right now the same question!

[RetroLounge]

33. Because they are not really Christians

they are fundie bush-cultists. They spew their bullshit in the name of Christ, while never actually trying to follow any of the teachings.

We have a few around here too.

RL

[Tigress DEM]

35. Hate the SIN - pray for the sinner...

I guess I think of Bush as a tool... of Satan.

I think people who supported him prior to the election were under the effect of the massive spin campaign and not watching anything but mainstream media which was PR for GW all the way.

I think I get through to them with calm rational discussion. I look for facts and feed them a few at a time - after I've been through my own anger on the subject.

Pointing out where we agree... killing innocent children is a pet issue for repubs - the whole Pro-Life thing. I say, "If you are so excited that they get to be born, where is your outrage now?" In a quiet voice, I demand that they be consistent.

I don't think Bush is right in calling himself a Christian, has committed blasphemy and is on the short bus to Hell. But I'm not going to give him any more energy than it takes to keep up with his lies and spread the truth.

He doesn't deserve my hatred. He's beneath me caring that much about him. I pray for him because he's running the country and if somehow he woke up and changed, it would be a miracle - but miracles are the department of the man upstairs.

I still think God could have saved us a lot of trouble with one well placed lightening bolt during the inaugural speach, but it was just an afterthought.

I think God knows what He is doing. I think the whole repub structure needed to be revealed so it can be broken down and thrown away. It will take time, but I'm fairly sure that's what's going on.

The DEMS are the party that puts feet to its faith, goes out and feeds the poor, shelters the homeless and turns the other cheek instead of rushing out into war.

Not only that WE don't need to blaze a fanfare about it. Doing the right thing simply IS the right thing. There are repubs who are like that too, but they are being bullied by their party. Bush put the Pope on notice and all of the sudden it ain't right to vote for someone who is pro-choice.

If the meek are supposed to inherit the Earth, that sounds more like us than the repubs. As much noise as we are making, we are still trying to be logical and factual about things - well most of us.

[ismnotwasm]

36. Any like that I have talked to

Seem not have thought things through very well, they use sound bites of the bible AND the media to justify both their religious and political views. To me, it's mind boggling. I am not a Christian, I'm agnostic, but I'm interested in religion in general, so I've read a lot of things here and there. I read the quotes I hear or read about in the bible every time I hear someone quote it, so I can get the context, rather than the quote. I have to say, because I do that, I understand to attraction (or faith in) of what I would consider "true" Christianity. It, like many faiths, runs much deeper than these ignorant fundamentalist types present it. I feel for the thinking people in the Christian, Muslim and any other faiths who have to put up with this crap, have their religion completely misrepresented and manipulated.

[bvar22]

41. A sleeping GIANT...

...has been awakened!
.
.
.
.
.
.and he is really, really pissed!
run away!!! run away!!...run away!!!

[shesemsmom]

42. The problem is they have been blind sided

when they realize this they will correct the problem. I can't help but believe some are already seeing the light. My boss for one. He realizes now that he was sucked in by his churh and we have a real; mess thanks to the fundies

[G_j]

43. Because, W is BETTER, SMARTER, GREATER than CHRIST!

That is why he can ignore (piss on) ALL of Jesus's core teachings.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

46. You can't be a Repuke and a Christian

.

[kweerwolf]

49. It's easy to love Christ and Bush ...

... just so long as you reduce Christ to a set of dogma.

Strange how so many of the so-called "Christians" will quote the Old Testament or the epistles in the New Testament to justify their beliefs, but so seldom quote from Jesus' teachings in the Gospels.

I always believed that people who followed Christ's teachings were Christians. Those that worship the dogma that surrounds Christianity could more aptly be described as followers of "Christianism."

[ldf]

50. those loving god AND bush?

i can only see two justifications...

1. they are told to from the pulpit, and since it reinforces their own prejudices they have no problems going along, and

2. they don't even go to church, and it reinforces their prejudices, so they are eager to go along.

so sad. come the rapture, all these people are going to be standing, looking around, saying WHAAAAAT?? THIS CAN'T BE!!! I'M STILL HERE!!!

and i so wanted their (nicer than mine - ok, i'm coveting) manhattan apartment, and now i won't get it.

:-(

[hoi polloi]

54. Me, I don't love either Christ or Bush

For Christians, I don't suppose it is difficult to separate our the religion from the politiacal religosity of Bush.
I'm sure there are a lot of Christians that hate Bush. I can't prove it, but I think so.