Is Fundamentalism A Mental Illness?

[ruggerson]

And why isn't this openly discussed? Why doesn't the media address the fact that tens of millions of innocent children are being held hostage in families crippled by this sad disease. And millions more are indoctrinated through depraved and incessant recruiting tactics by throngs of mentally ill cultists.

When religious rightwingers appear on talk shows, shouldn't there always be someone on opposite them to inform that there is help - there are ways to "cure" them of their illness? To show them that there IS a way out?

There seems to be a taboo about discussing this mental illness openly. The only way these cults of mentally ill Americans will be broken if this issue is addressed and examined by the media.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Because so many of the "experts" are themselves victims of the disease.

or people like Sciafe who is a rich insane fundy, who owns media sources, can afford to pay the media to spin the news to make it sound like they are not crazy, or not allow a fair exchange of ideas.
Then there are others who are in it for more self serving reasons, like monetary profit..Murdoch, and his ilk. We won't even go into the motives of the Bush crime family, Rove, Norquist and the rest of them and their insanity.

[liberalhistorian]

10. I think that's an insult to call

fundamentalism a "disease" or "mentally ill", etc. We may not agree with them, but that doesn't make them mentally ill. When we say things like that, we're just as bad as when they try to make being gay a disease, or a type of mental illness.

[karlrschneider]

27. I disagree. Every human is born an atheist. That is to say, without any

beliefs about supernatural deities one way or the other. It HAS to be "learned", or more accurately "ingrained." I know a lot of people, both gay and straight, and have yet to meet one who made a conscious decision to be whatever they are.

[alittlelark]

34. Excellent point....

that's why it is so imperative to them to teach them about religion from the start, then on to sunday school. If it's not taught from a young age it won't take.

[tx_dem41]

37. Good debating point, but...

I'll still agree with the poster you were responding to.

[catzies]

2. I don't know, but susceptibility to it is a weakness that can only be cure

by education. ;) I think it capitalizes on ignorance.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

Well, there is a 12-step group called Fundamentalists Anonymous

I'm not making this up.

[liberalhistorian]

3. Ummm........

I think you're way out of line here, frankly. We may not agree with them or their philosophy, and we may resent their relentless efforts to impose their beliefs and their own version of religion on everyone else. But that doesn't at all make them mentally ill or a cult, not by a long shot. I think saying that is just as bad as what they say about gays. We have no more right to demand that they believe a certain way, the way that we do, than they have to demand that of us.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

6. Agreed. n/t

[ruggerson]

8. But we can love the fundamentalist

and hate the mental illness.

[Undercover Owl]

9. Well, how about "Is liberalism a mental illness?"

That question has already been asked by conservatives, loudly and rudely.

[liberalhistorian]

13. I agree that that's ridiculous

and I resent it as much as you do, but does that give us the right to turn around and do the same thing? Can't you see how childish that is, and that it gives them even more ammunition against us? And we've also had our own "experts" attempt to call conservatism a disease, as well, so we're not pure and holy here.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. No one said Liberalism or Conservatism was an illness.

The discussion was about the extreme Fundamental Religious Fanaticism

[BrklynLiberal]

18. Not sure that is a valid analogy - but not all Fundamental Christians

would qualify as mentally ill. But there sure as hell are a lot that would. Seems that the populations of moms who drown or stab or otherwise dispose of their young kids these days seems to be over-represented among the young, stay-at-home fundie Moms, who then tell the police that God told them to kill their kids. Sorry, that is an extreme example, I know.
But that blind refusal to see anything but the straight and narrow single truth that they are told to believe is exactly the same as what is thought of as one of those "crazy sects". They will hear no other ideas, and accept no possibilities of change. It cannot be a healthy way of being.

[Undercover Owl]

4. good question.

Fundamentalists exhibit delusional thinking. They need help.

[marmar]

5. Absolutely...

When you're that committed to such hardline ideas and completely unwilling consider that there's another viewpoint, you've got some degree of mental illness.

[AngelAsuka]

7. And, IMHO, we'll get eaten -alive-

by those easily swayed enough to not understand the context. The O'Lielly's of the world will tell them 'this is what librulls think of your religion, see, I told you, they think they know whats best for you if only you listen to them'.

I see your point, but...I just think that the RW Talkazoid :freak:'s will make so much hay out of it...

I dunno. Its just my 0.02 worth. :toast:

~~AA~~

[HEyHEY]

11. Yes...

[liberalhistorian]

14. Really? Well, then, using

that same logic, we could call gays "mentally ill" and/or a "cult." And that's just as wrong.

[ruggerson]

21. Being gay is a biological fact of nature

Fundamentalism is an acquired lifestyle choice.

Bad analogy.

[BrklynLiberal]

22. How can you compare something you are born as to something you become

intellectually? Do you think that as you grow you are taught to be gay?
Do you think that a Fundamental Christian Religious Fanatic would be that way no matter what family they were brought up by? There is absolutely no comparison between being gay and being a religious fanatic.

[ultraist]

29. I agree, that comparison is apples and oranges

A state of mind cannot be compared to sexual orientation.

An unbalanced mind can be considered unhealthy. Intolerance,hatred, and invoking fear to control others is considered abusive when it is not cloaked in religion. Fundies are extremely judgemental and resort to hell, fire, and brimstone Bible quotes to fuel their fearmongering tactics. Every school of thought within the psychology field recognizes such tactics as compromised at best and often abusive, especially when employed in parenting.

[BlueJazz]

28. I don't think it's the same thing at all.

1. Gays don't try to force other folks to imitate their actions
2. Gays don't try to force their thought or lifestyle into law.
3.(Most) Gays are rational thinkers and are able to accept scientific theory. Fundamentalists can't accept anything that is not made up in the bible.

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. Some gays

are also mentally ill. Just like some fundamentalist are mentally ill. Every group has their crazies.

[Toots]

48. Is being Black also a mental disorder?

Mental disorder has to do with thought process. I know of no gay people that deliberately think themselves into gayness. Fundamentalists however do nothing but think themselves into a turmoil. I agree with the original poster. It is a mental disorder that is not shared (experienced) by the huge majority of the people in the world.

[Kerrytravelers]

16. Spend some time with these people and you'll begin to think

either they're crazy or you are. You can look at the same world and see two totally different images. It's like we're not even on the same planet. My in-laws are fundy fruticakes neo-con warmongers whom I despise. So, I'm a bit biased. They will never be alone with our children unsupervised, it's that bad.

While I think many things about their mental state, unfortunately, I can not have them committed.Believe me, if that were possible, my husband would have locked them up years ago.

[SharonAnn]

12. It appears to me to be a kind of addiction. I understand why some

addicts and alcoholics when they stop using turn to this kind of "religiosity" and are obsessive about it.

The type I'm thinking of couldn't be described as a religion, it's better described as religiosity.

It's typically full of judgmentalism, black and white thinking, good vs evil, there's only one way to be saved, and all that stuff.

[asjr]

24. That sounds logical to me. They have been so indoctrinated

for so long they have forgotten what their religion is really about. I think most of them are scared out of their wits not to follow what their parents taught. The trouble I have encountered with them is that they cull the Bible for the passages they want--not the ones they need. Most times it is the Old Testament (fire and brimstone) they quote with none of the good teachings of the New Testament. They sing Jesus Loves Me while hedging their bets.

[BlueJazz]

32. Yep..All they do is turn one "Addiction" into another.

[Clark2008]

15. Because the "illness" is cloaked in religion and religion is protected by

the Constitution - or, rather, the free expression, thereof.

Now, where it may make a difference is in the abject torture that some children, particularly girls, experience from hardline (mostly) fathers. Child welfare agencies do step in a take away children who are being physically, sexually or emotionally abused. Maybe we make the case to local child welfare agents to "check on neighbor so-and-so" because he may be abusing his children. They might find something and they might not - but it's probably worth a try. (And I'm not talking about spanking. I'm talking about hardcore hitting and namecalling).

[NAO]

17. Some say it should be classified as such...see article

Ending Biblical Brainwash
For better mental and cultural health, it's time we classified religious fundamentalism as a psychological disorder
By George Dvorsky
http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Transitory_Human/column.aspx?articleID=2002-12-15-2

excerpt:

Imagine that you're a psychiatrist. A new patient comes to see you and says that he regularly talks to an invisible being who never responds, that he reads excerpts from one ancient book and that he believes wholeheartedly that its contents must be accepted implicitly, if not taken literally. The patient goes on to say that that the world is only 6,000 years old and that dinosaurs never existed. He brazenly rejects modern science's observations and conclusions, and subscribes to the notion that after death he will live in eternal bliss in some alternate dimension. And throughout your meeting, he keeps handing you his book and urging you to join him, lest you end up after death in a far less desirable alternate dimension than him.

Is this a mentally healthy person? If you were a responsible psychiatrist, how could you answer yes? These symptoms border on delusional schizophrenia, which the American Psychological Association's DSM-IV describes as involving a profound disruption in cognition and emotion, assigning unusual significance or meaning to normal events and holding fixed false personal beliefs.

So, should you insist on follow-up appointments along with some strong medication? Well, quite obviously, the patient is a religious fundamentalist. So he would most likely not be diagnosed with a psychological problem. In fact, such a diagnosis could land you in hot water; the patient's religious beliefs are constitutionally protected.

Yet, perhaps it's time this changed, and that we made religious fundamentalism a mental and cultural health issue. People should be able to believe what they like, but only so long as their convictions don't harm others or, arguably, themselves. Fundamentalism, however, breeds fanaticism and often leads to terrible violence, injustice and inequality. If society can force drug addicts into rehabilitation because they're a danger to themselves and the public, then we should be able to compel religious fundamentalists to undergo treatment as well.

full article at:
http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Transitory_Human/column.aspx?articleID=2002-12-15-2

[Kerrytravelers]

23. Being upfront before my post...

I am a Christian. However, I have a far more spiritual view of the world than a religious one. I believe that all religions reflect the culture they're from. Christianity reflects European culture, for example. All religions have a basic creation myth, a flood-type myth, a life beyond death myth, etc. So basically, being spiritual is being connected to people from all over the world. When I say a prayer with my rosery at mass, it's to the same spiritual connection as the Buddist Monk down the street from me. I see a world view with a spiritual connection. Having faith to me means seeing that the world and the human experience is bigger than me. For me, the rosery works, for others, there is a different spiritual connection that makes them feel closer to the world.


I loved this article (Ending Biblical Brainwash
For better mental and cultural health, it's time we classified religious fundamentalism as a psychological disorder
By George Dvorsky) posted by NAO. Fundamentalism isn't a spiritual connection, it's something far different.

For those of you who take exception to the use of fundamentalism, read the article carefully. I hardly think it applies to anyone here on DU. It is more the * style of mock-Christianity.

[DoYouEverWonder]

44. Sounds interesting

got a link?

thanks

[Kerrytravelers]

47. The link...

<http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Transitory_Human/column.aspx?articleID=2002-12-15-2>


I was referring to the post directly above mine. If this link doesn't work, scroll up and try that one! :hi:

[ultraist]

25. Obssesive Compulsive Disorder seems to be linked with fanaticism

My brother in law's wife would make a great case study for this. She has OCD and is an extremist fundie. She is delusional and spews out OT bible quotes to justify her every thought and action. It's quite frightening to witness. She refuses to seek treatment or use medications properly, although she pops valium when she feels stressed.

Fundie churches do meet the criteria of being a cult. Why should we candycoat the truth? These people are ill and are not being diagnosed or treated as they should be.

[Mist]

49. From their behavior, it seems many are co-dependent

From Co-Dependence: Misunderstood - Mistreated, by Anne Wilson Schaef:

Characteristics of co-dependence: dishonesty (denial, projection, delusion); not dealing w/feelings in a healthy way (frozen feelings, distorted feelings, holding onto feelings, like resentment); control; confusion; thinking disorders (confused thinking, obsessive thinking, dualisstic, either/or thinking); perfectionism, external referenting (being other-directed, "impression management," shame-based existence); fear; rigidity; judgmentalism; depression; inferiority/grandiosity; self-centeredness; loss of personal morality (compromised value system, loss of a spiritual base); stasis; negativism.

[BrklynLiberal]

26. Great article.

[neebob]

31. In some cases, I think it might well be a disorder

but see, there's this problem, and it is that a majority of people believe in same basic invisible being. Many of them talk to him on occasion and read the same ancient book and subscribe to some form of belief in eternal bliss. Where do you draw the line?

Good luck with that one.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

40. "Some" say lots of stupid things

I agree with the poster above that this is the kind of comment that is guaranteed to paint the left as haters of religion.

[mopinko]

20. i absolutely think so

and i think the day that it is recognized is coming. that is not to say the religion is an illness, but fundamentalism is.
it is a proven fact that epileptics are more likely to be highly religious. a "belief system" that leads you to commit murder/suicide is an illness. a "belief system" that causes you to beat and torture children is an illness.
going to church on sunday is fine. handling poisonous snakes is sick.

[barbaraann]

30. It's a cult that leads to mental illness.

n/t

[specimenfred1984]

33. Is Lying a Mental Illness?

Isn't that what bugs people most about fundamentalists: that they are conning us?

They're just liars stuck on permanent lie mode, they "took the pill". Most know they're lying, if they don't then they are mentally ill people who are masking their mental illness with religion.

There's no mental illness strictly defined by being consumed with religion that I know of but there are a lot of mental illnesses that could involve an inability to think about anything else. Check it out and have fun!

http://www.psychologynet.org/dsm.html

[Sugarbleus]

35. I think the sect started off as a serious religious dogma BUT

as time has gone by, adding politics and unsavory "preachers" "Teachers" "heretical teachings"...the whole movement seems more cultic than purely religious/holy.

I have some good friends still in this movement. A couple I can think of off hand are what I call: BRAINWASHED I can see it in their eyes, in their demeanor. They "look" like regular people; many will have a laugh with you or a cordial hello, but when you hang around long enough you get these vibes that are pretty intense. The subjects they talk about are 95% "religion related". They cannot go beyond associating EVERYTHING they do with "God's Word".

One of these friends of mine is a Jewess turned Christian. She's educated from UCLA, was born in England. Her mother lives in Beverely Hills and is a psychiatrist. LOL

Her mother doesn't approve much of her daughter's choices but they cope with each other. Get my friend off to herself and she can be THEE MOST obstinate, opinionated, unsympathetic person you've ever seen. Her arrogance is a stench in my nostrils. I will say hello, but I will NEVER again confide one personal thing to her. This woman came into my house once where she spied a couple pieces of framed art I had just purchased because of its color and beauty. Immediately, she starts telling me the symbolism in the art was cultic as it represented "fairy-like" nymphs (or something) who were holding celestial globes. She felt these were too close to Astrology to be good for use in my "christian home" (now former xtian home)

It's like what we call: Mass hysteria, this belief system.

Anyway, my friend is a RABID conservative and a pompous ass, I'm unhappy to say.

[Tacos al Carbon]

36. What a sad bunch of bigots

I find cavorting in this thread. Is most of the population of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, the PA, etc. mentally Ill? How about India, Pakistan and Afghanistan? How about Utah? One big insane asylum as far as you're concerned? Most are fundamentalists by any reasonable understanding. Were most of the founding fathers mentally ill? How about Gandhi? MLK? Mother Theresa? Bishop Tutu? Or is it only religious people who disagree with you on politics? Are other religious fundamentalists mentally healthy in your book?

Since when is it OK to equate a belief system, whether religious, political or otherwise, with a debilitating medical condition? Oh, how wonderfully superior all of you "healthy" people must feel.

[ruggerson]

42. Give us your historical evidence that the Founding Fathers

were fundamentalists.

I also don't buy your generalization that most of the middle east is fundamentalist. Much is religious, but there is an enormous difference between having religious beliefs and being a fundamentalist.

I await your evidence on the Founding Fathers with interest.

[imenja]

38. no, don't be ridiculous

They might say the same thing about you. Labeling that which you disagree with as mental illness is not only intolerant, it trivializes the truly devastating effects of mental illness.

[sweetheart]

39. No, its a process, a period, in growing up

Most every person grows through a period of fundamentalism in life,
be it at a young age accepting mommy's word as "god", or big brother,
or teacher, corporate boss or whatever authority figure. When one is
ignorant and learning about the world, it helps to align with other
interests and fundamentalism can help in this process.

This all presumes that it is not an end in itself, and rather something
one ultimately throws off... as the next process is the undoing of
fundamentalism, the questioning of all evidence and theories to explore
what is "real" in life, and what is myth... and this questioning and
exploring leads one to composite ones own views, sovereign individualism
that a fundamentalist finds so threatening, largely as it is more
mature. The only way to oppose is through fundamentalist authority.

Then perhaps one could outline even a further evolution of constructive
nihilism... of realizing that all theories are just that, and that life
can only be lived in the moment, in all its mystical totality. Then
carrying the baggage of preconceptions of any sort is simply a way to
block out the sacred totality.

[annabanana]

45. "sacred totality"

Only a tiny bit of this totality is physical, I think. I've recently started thinking of myself as a "physonaut", I guess. (a primarily spiritual entity in a physical suit exploring the harsh inhospitible physical world.) Evolution is a "tinkering" with the suit so it can progress further in exploring this world. Our dreams and internal dialogues are a debreifing process. It's a fun idea to noodle with.

[sweetheart]

46. consciousness and the physical

Another way to consider it is perhaps physical is just an extension
of awareness of the sacred totality. Perhpas as well, you are like a
surface fish that has been taken by a sea current 100 meters down where
a whole different breed of dark-fish inhabits, seemingly inhospitable
for creatures of the light.

And what light of truth is so comfortable for such a spiritual being
burns the eyes and the skin of the dwellers of the darkness, who,
as they cannot see in the light, grope around perceiving the physical
as separate and other, rather than wholeness of a greater awareness.

:-) namaste :-)

[Bridget Burke]

41. Not all Fundamentalists are alike.

In the past, most Fundamentalists just wanted to follow the basics of their faith, as interpreted by them. Most avoided involvement in government since they did not want the government involved in their religion. Christian Fundamentalist roots go back to the Nonconformists--people often oppressed by the Church of England (or of Ireland).

The Christian Reconstructionists, Dominionists, etc., have politicized conservative Christianity. They want the USA re-made to match their Calvinist view of Old Testament sociey. These groups are not above influencing conservative Christians by stealth. And many on the top are not really that religious--they're just in it for the power & the money.

Discussion of this politicization of conservative Christianity would be more useful than running around saying "they're all crazy!"