Racism alive and well in the South

[BOSSHOG]

The Council of Conservative Citizens <CCC> (described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a patently white supremacist group) will hear from "several" Mississippi State house and senate members this Thursday. The head of the organization, Bill Hinson, would not tell the AP who the lawmakers were or where the meeting would take place.

Hinson says the CCC does not make race an issue. He said our focus is on taxation and southern heritage. He said - "I GUESS YOU COULD CALL US THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT."

THIS IS BUSH'S BASE.

Source. www.sunherald.com

[merh]

1. In the 60's we at least could call the FBI and ask them to

monitor the meetings. They use a different letter of the alphabet, CCC as opposed to KKK, but their mission is the same.

[noonwitch]

2. It's alive outside the south, too

Come to Detroit, where the poor city is 80% black, and the suburbs are 80% white (except for Southfield). It might not be segregation by law, but it is still segregation (de facto).

[Bethany Rockafella]

3. I agree.

It's not just the south. In fact, I think there are more integrated neighborhoods in the south than the north.

[Karenina]

4. Racism

is alive and thriving ALL THROUGH the United States of Amurikkka. Always has been and I expect no sudden change.

[ChairOne]

7. I love it when people try to hide the elephant....

... by saying that there are elephants *everywhere* (what'll we tell the kids!).

The OP wasn't talking about all the other elephants - s/he was talking about one *in particular*.

Billy: Boy those Nazis were awful to Jewish people.
Suzy: <shrug> Anti-Semitism is alive and thriving throughout the world. Always has been and I expect no sudden change.

The rhetorical "oomph" of Suzy's respons is to create a false moral equivalence - either by *decreasing* the relative measure of Nazi activities, or by *increasing* the relative measure of the rest of the world's. Whether intended or not, the practical upshot of Suzy's repsonse is "nothing to see here folks, move along".

And that's the "false" part of "false moral equivalence. There *is* something special about the Nazis and anti-Semitism. And there *is* something special about the south and racism. No matter how much some Southerners want the rest of us to stop looking at it, it's still there.

[Bridget Burke]

9. So--what's your home state?

And why did you omit it from your profile?

We'd really like to know the part of the USA that's 100% free of racism.

Edited to add: The CCC is strong in the South, but there are chapters in Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, New York, New Jersey, Ohio & Pennsylvania

www.cofcc.org/chapters/cofcc_chapters.htm

[ChairOne]

11. Elephant? What's an elephant? lol

As if the validity of my point stands or falls with my willingness to divulge personal information... Sheesh.

It appears that some people are confused over the structure of what I said. I would advise them to re-read it, and think about it the 2nd time through.

As if the existence of elephants *elsewhere* in any way detracts from the specialness of the one the OP called attention to.... <sigh>

Who cares if *I'm* a serial killer? There's murderers all over the country. I'd "really like to know the part of the USA that's 100% free of murder". Move along, nothing to see here, folks.

[Bridget Burke]

12. Ashamed of your home state.

Too bad. Which CCC Chapter is closest to your home town?

[ChairOne]

20. Is there a special on red herring this week or something?

You (should) know perfectly well that (a) where I live/have lived is completely irrelevant to the (in)correctness of what I said, and (b) it's absolutely none of your (or anyone else's) business where I live/have live.

But keep harping on a non-issue as long as you desire. The elephant will still be there, and will still be a valid topic of conversation no matter how much you try to talk about everything else under the sun.

[enki23]

19. i get that all the time too. "racism is actually *worse* in the north..."

it's bullshit, of course, but there you have it. racism is bad everywhere. but you'll notice where organizations like the CCC hold open meetings, and it ain't in minneapolis.

and the next person who says "at least in the south, they're honest about their racism--up north, they keep it secret" gets a rhetorical ass kicking. down south they have plenty of secret racism too. but in the south, racism is so unexceptional, so well accepted, they don't HAVE to keep it a damned secret. and up north i've never known the secretly racist assholes get comfortable enough with me (a fellow whitey) to talk about the "goddamned niggers" as soon as they felt even slightly comfortable in my company. down here they do. up north, they HAD to keep it a secret, because up north the middle-class moderates had enough decency to feel embarrassed about it. down south, the middle-class moderates fling the n word around like it was mandated by jesus.

the language people use gives a great deal of insight into how they think. and the language they use *colors* the way they think as well.

comparing northern and southern racism may be comparing apples to apples, but one of 'em is big motherfucker.

[placton]

24. enki: you are sooo right

I have the same take on the moral equivalence argument that "racism's the same in the north and the south" - the south is far more racist INSTITUTIONALLY than the north, inter alia

[Karenina]

15. Let's talk again

once you've been around a little longer. ;-)

I ask you to stand with me on this corner of observation... What IS "special" about the WWII nazis, in the D'englisch sense, is the INDUSTRIALIZATION of human death. It isn't so direct this time around.

[ChairOne]

18. Awesome - (attempt to) silence the dissenters....

... based on a completely unjustified and 100% false assumption.

Given how hard the "good guys" fight to keep people from seeing the elephant in the room, it's no suprise at all that republicans keep winning...

[Karenina]

21. Now you've lost me...

My point is that the elephant of racism permeates the American psyche, no matter WHERE it rears its ugly head. What's YOUR point? What is it that YOU see?

[ChairOne]

22. I see many elephants......

The OP talked about a *specific* one, and then a bunch of what some might call "southern apologists" jumped in trying to distract attention from *that* elephant by pointing out a bunch of others.

In other words: I see just what I reported in my first post in this thread.

[Karenina]

23. Whatever...

:shrug:

[patdem]

47. Chair one why do you chose to be obtuse in your answers..I see perfectly

well what you are saying and others may be confused by what you said, but instead of trying to be more clear you became more obtuse. Why is that? I understand what you say..."Well there is racism all over" is to excuse the worst place where racism is embedded and a part of the government structure..which enables the other places to be racist, cause the gubment in the south encourages and embodies it..but why do you get so defensive and obtuse in your postings? Just wondering?

[ChairOne]

48. [shrugs] Both defensiveness and obtuseness are....

... to a significant degree in the eye of the beholder, I suppose... YMMV.

[GarySeven]

16. Something about the North and bigotry ...

You folks change the flag that flew over slave states, Indian massacres, Japanese internments ... you folks take down the monument to Custer, blast the faces of Washington and Jefferson off Rushmore and change the name of the Capitol

THEN you can maybe claim the moral perspective to lecture us on our character flaws.

[DrGonzoLives]

26. Who is "hiding" anything?

Is it wrong to point out that racism is everywhere? Or should we just focus on those evil asshole hicks that aren't enlightened enough to live in New York or California? That's what this is about, not creating "moral equivalency," not excusing racism, but pointing out this idiotic sectional elitist bullshit that has been allowed to exist for far too long on DU.

OK, so the CCC doesn't have a lot of chapters outside the South. Is this suddenly proof of something? I'm sure if you look, you'll find plenty of similar organizations all throughout the United States. Just because they're not officially affiliated does not mean that the North gets a pass here either.

And, yes, it is perfectly acceptable to ask where it is that you live that is so wonderful, perfect, and a beacon of light to the rest of the world. Where? Tell us. Even if it's just the general region of a state. No one can track you down based on that.

It seems that Southerners aren't the only ones who want to keep fighting the Civil War. Maybe instead of looking down noses, we should be holding out hands. But I guess that would mean actually having to speak with those rednecks and make an effort, so we don't do it.

I live in the far north suburbs of Chicago, and have spent time in western Michigan and west-central Indiana in my life. Feel free to use that to "prove" whatever culutural elitist garbage you're trying to push on people here today.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[atre]

29. Blatant false analogy

By using the analogy of Hitleresque anti-Semitism (which was anti-Semitism plus genocide) and ordinary-run-of-the-mill European anti-Semitism (absent genocide), you are manufacturing a distinction between Southern racism and racism elsewhere in America. Keep in mind that we're talking about racism being alive in the South today.

There *is* moral equivalence in modern America. In the latter 25 years of the twentieth century to the present, there simply is no relevant difference between the racial discriminatory practices in the South and the practices elsewhere in the country. Consult your local EEOC branch office (or the state equivalent) if you don't believe me.

[ChairOne]

30. Sorry, the award's already been given out....

... No late entries allowed...

I gave *several* structurally similar examples. It's too bad you focussed on the *content* of one of them, which varies, instead of their *logico-rhetorical structure*, which is the same across all...

[atre]

31. I understand your point

You just miserably failed in pinning it to this particular argument.

You think expanding the scope of the scorn is an indirect way of avoiding moral inequivalencies. But you failed to explain why there is moral inequivalency here.

Is that clear enough? Or perhaps you should you arrogantly and dismissively toss out yet another "award?" Or perhaps I should do the same, since apparently you saw the word "Hitler" in my post and assumed an argument that I wasn't making?

[ChairOne]

32. Oh well - {shrugs} - can't win em all.... /eom

[WCGreen]

40. I don't know, the GOP always tries to diminish a point by expanding

the scope of the arguement....

For instance, every time they bring up Clinton when Bush is being attacked, it sort of tells the people that the Bush form of governing is okay because Clinton did something similar on occassion.....

Racism is alive and well all across the nation but it seems to be more culturally inbreed in the more rural and agricultural areas of the country.

Not making a blanket statement, but the idea that Indiana is a typical northern state is just plain wrong. Outside of Indianapolis and Gary, the rest of the state is pretty small town and agriculturally dependent.

The same goes for a large portions of Ohio......

Racism is an individual stance manifest through collective action in state sponsored or religious institutions. YO me it is morally reprehensible for any religious organization to give aid and comfort to those adhering to a immoral position.

[mitchum]

50. Thank you, Karenina...

for that is what I was going to say. Unfortunately, the USA is racist "from sea to shining sea"

[forgethell]

10. I know I live in one,

about 50-50. My block as a boy was white, but the next block over was black. I know when I was growing up I heard about integration, "in the South they don't care how close they get, as long as they don't get too high, in the North they don't care how high they get, as long as they don't get too close." I thought it sounded pretty awful back then, but there may have been a lot of truth to it. The various civil rights acts have done something about the "high" limit, but nobody has done anything about the 'close' one.

[Clark2008]

42. This is true

I'm not going to lie and say racism is but a memory down here, but I think Southern blacks experience less of it because of all the race-healing the South went through in the 60 and early 70s.
The biggest thing about the South is that when there is racism, it's very open, like the organization that inspired this thread, and black folks (and us white folks who hate racism) know how to deal with it.
I think racism up north is still cloaked and harder to root out as a result.
Just my opinion, though. I could be wrong.

[Stepup2]

57. Segregation and racism is

insidious in the north imo. Just because the north does not fly confederate flags on federal buildings does not mean segregation is not alive and well. Benton Harbor MI. is another example of this.

[Rowdyboy]

5. At least our pathetic bozos are open in their hatred and racism

It defies the imagination that they can get away with this in 2005.

[BOSSHOG]

6. Hello RowdyBoy

I'm sure you know the story but (By God), State Representative John Moore (RRRR), Brandon said that (By God), "If I find out they are a racist organization, (By God), I am going to confront them." (By God). How in the fuck does such a moron not know it is a racist organization? I apologize for such an asinine question.

[Rowdyboy]

8. Even worse, one of the sick bastards compared the CCC to the NAACP

as racist organizations. The unmitigated gall just astounds me.

[Clark2008]

43. Ha! I just said this right above you before reading your post!

I take it we agree on this issue.

Ours is out in the open and can be dealt with.

[Rowdyboy]

52. Absolutely....In some ways, the south is ahead of the rest of the

country because we started dealing witht he problem of racism earlier than everyone else.

[Stuckinthebush]

13. Racism is alive and well all over the US

The South is just very good at it.

[GarySeven]

14. Racism alive and well in the NORTH

Just in case you forgot.

You folks INVENTED the slave trade and profited most from it with your investment houses, insurance companies, shipping firms and manufacturing plants. The worst race riots and racial violence in recent memory have happened in your blessed, Eden-like paradise of racial "tolerance."

[ultraist]

17. Racial profiling/Police brutality is more prevelant in the North

Boston has one of the most notorious PDs as does LA.

The South does have a different style of manifesting racism but racism runs rampid in all areas of the country. We don't hear as much about it in the midwest, because very few African Americans or other minorities live in the midwest. Overall, the South has more African Americans than any other region in the country.

This is NOT just a "southern" social ill.

[Sgent]

25. The last KKK rally in North Mississippi

Was I believe in the late 70's.

In Indiana they were having them yearly.

I was present at a former grand wizards funeral not too long ago -- and there was a substantial number of blacks, including two pall bearers.

The Confederate battleflag was kept on the state of mississippi due to a significant portion of the Black vote -- it would have been taken off otherwise.

Dont' confuse rural with racism -- they can look similar.

All that being said, any long-term Mississippian who doesn't know that the CCC is a racist piece of shit organization, if either lying or unbelievably dumb. The CCC was in charge of Mississippi's secret police force through the late 60's which was in chrage of protecting "white people from the moral icursion of blacks (actual word was differnt)".

The organization is evil, and I hope that any polititions that meet with these assholes get taken to the woodshed.

[Blue_Tires]

33. why would blacks attend a grand wizards funeral?

celebration, perhaps?

[GarySeven]

36. One of the most important slave traders in Mississippi ...

was a BLACK man; many other blacks also owned slaves, as well as Native Americans.

Slavery was a pernicious evil that involved all races, both as owners and as the owned. History is much more complicated than the simplified version you learned about in community college.

[Brewman_Jax]

41. To complete the story

A black slave owner could NOT own white slaves, rather, indentured servants.

You're right, history is more complicated that the sanitized version you learned.

[Blue_Tires]

44. i see no reason for the insult

i just wanted to know why blacks would attend the funeral of a grand wizard?

[Clark2008]

45. They tried to have a KKK rally in Newport, TN

AND NOBODY CAME!

LMAO!

Actually, the "organizers" showed up (about five or 10 people) and about 100 to 200 protesters showed up. :)
Newport, TN has a duly elected black sheriff - and, apparently, the people who live there LIKE it that way. The organizers were instigators from outside the town. :P

[bicentennial_baby]

34. Actually, the Portuguese started it

if you want to be exact about it...Americans were pretty damn late to the game, compared to the Portuguese

[GarySeven]

37. Very true - but the original poster was implying ...

that the South was the originator and sole party responsible for slavery, at least in the US.

[ChairOne]

53. Curious: exactly *which* of the OP's 8 sentences....

... alone, or on combination, imply that?

(I'm including the subject and citation in my count.)

[fishwax]

54. the original poster implied no such thing

at least not that I can tell. What are you referring to specifically?

[kwassa]

58. Nonsense

GarySeven:
"You folks INVENTED the slave trade and profited most from it with your investment houses, insurance companies, shipping firms and manufacturing plants. The worst race riots and racial violence in recent memory have happened in your blessed, Eden-like paradise of racial "tolerance."

The slave trade wasn't invented by any Americans.

http://africanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa080601a.htm
excerpt:

For two hundred years, 1440-1640, Portugal had a monopoly on the export of slaves from Africa. It is notable that they were also the last European country to abolish the institution - although, like France, it still continued to work former slaves as contract labourers, which they called libertos or engagés à temps. It is estimated that during the 4 1/2 centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Portugal was responsible for transporting over 4.5 million Africans (roughly 40% of the total). During the eighteenth century however, when the slave trade accounted for the transport of a staggering 6 million Africans, Britain was the worst transgressor - responsible for almost 2.5 million. (A fact often forgotten by those who regularly cite Britain's prime role in the abolition of the slave trade.)

[PROGRESSIVE1]

28. NASCAR driver Tony Stewart backed the CCC's Haley Barbour (R)...

for Governor of Missisippi in 2003!

Just pointing out a fact.

:puke:

[ultraist]

35. Socio-economic indicators by State are a good measure

Income and educational attainment by State are good measures for evaluating what regions are more racist. Barriers to equal opportunity seem to be equally prevelant in Southern and Northern states.

For example, in Alabama, only 7.5% of African Americans earn Bachelor's degrees compared to 13.5% of Whites (approx 7% difference). 3% of African-Americans earn over $100,000 compared to 9.2% of Whites in Al (approx 6% difference).

In NY, which has more African-Americans than any other state, 10% of A-A earn Bachelor's compared to 17% of Whites (approx 7% difference). 8% of A-A earn over $100,000 compared to 18% of Whites (approx 8% difference).

State by State data available at the US Census Bureau or here:
http://www.fairdata2000.com/SF3/contrast_charts/Statewide/Black/

The percentage of discrepancies is approximately the same in one of the most Southern states and a BLUE Northern state.

[Jack_DeLeon]

38. NEWSFLASH: Racism is alive and well everywhere.

[geniph]

39. Racism is alive and well EVERYWHERE, unfortunately

as is sexism.

[Karenina]

51. Like, all over the world...

Same shit, different day, location, code words.

[drthais]

46. ok. Let's see now....

"....and southern heritage"

and idiot (even a southern idiot)
KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS

that means "when whites owned blacks and all was well"

[Sgent]

49. Why they attended...

This person was a Grand Wizard through the 60's, and afterwards had a change of heart. Not really sure why, and he wasn't public about it. He was the police chief in the town, and had garnered a lot of respect from people of both races for being fair handed.

[fishwax]

55. Trent Lott got in trouble for being a rally-goer

and speaker back in the late 90s (before his whole Strom Thurmond snafu). These guys have been around for a while, and they're quite vile. Their web site has plenty of articles expounding their sick philosophy as well :puke:

[McCamy Taylor]

56. No duh! Tell us something we dont know.