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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:41 PM
Original message
Sign this petition against Bill Thomas's agenda for Social Security.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. And again....
the Republican Party is the party of Racist and America Haters! They stand for everything that we oppose!

"Klansman Bill Thomas"

:puke:
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I HEARD him say that blacks don't live as long
as whites so they are cheated out of their SS retirement...but he never mentioned that the children and families and survivors might need that help.

I found his statement about race to be disgusting and appalling...
and frightening for what it could lead to....
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Thomas on the tube yesterday with Russert
was accusing AARP of "spending tens of millions of dollars to scare people."

WHEN are we going to be heard on the damn tube?

SIGNED and forwarded.

The idea that individual women should get less per annum because ACTUARIAL women live longer is appalling.

And racial discrimination is unconstitutional PERIOD.

DAMN this is upsetting.
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katywho Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. Kick
Discrimination, plain and simple!
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Done
thanks for posting
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. signed
what the hell is he talking about

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Keep kicked please.
This petition is important to all senior citizens and those who collect SSI.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kick! I signed. Hasn't he heard of the Constitution?
This blatantly discriminates on both race and sex.

Keep this kicked, all! I'm nominating for homepage.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Another
:kick:
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progressiveBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. I read that in the paper this morning...
It was reported on as if there was nothing wrong with his comments. He actually said that the fact that women tend to live longer than men should be taken into consideration. Just sick...
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tmooses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. What differences doe he exactly propose because of race? Maybe ..
we can all even out the death rate for all gender and race groups by
denying the ones living longer extended benefits beyond a certain age, therefore starving those groups to earlier an earlier life expectancy?
That's what it sounds this right wing lunatic is saying. I already signed from an earlier e-mail from McAuliffe with the comment this guy should be brought up on charges and removed from the House.
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StephanieMarie Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Should we not just let them hang themselves with this
and not sign the petition?
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. I signed.
Social Security has always been a pay-it-forward, what-goes-around-comes-around type of program. I have contributed all of my life and I want to be able to collect some day. I don't think I should be discriminated against because I am a woman and other women have outlived men.
Inflation will punish me financially if I live too long, Don't let Social Security punish me also for being of the wrong gender.
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ezee Donating Member (615 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Signed and sent to my list.
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. Did it earlier through my email. And I'm kicking it!
:kick:
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thank you I signed it
and sent it to my friends.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Done and kicked NT
:kick:
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TwoHandedLayup Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. Rush agrees
I was travelling in Northern IN and listen to Rush to keep awake when driving. He keeps my blood pumping with his self proclaimed "omnipotence". He was going after this also. If the dittoeheads and the DUers can agree, it must be really bad.
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VALibby Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. signed.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. Did it earlier, today, from McAuliffe.
Did anyone, else, have a problem with their website and the readability of the petition response blanks, or was it a problem with my browser?
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-05 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. FYI: C-span had a wonderful woman on today speaking about
Social Security and African Americans.

http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=WJE&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=206&Rot_WD=&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

This is in the Washington Journal section of C-span. Click on Jan. 24,2005 show. (This show uses Real Player). Once open, slide the advance bar/forward to 2.03.30. This is where Ms Maya Rockeymoore starts.

She is VP of Research for Congressional Black Caucus Foundation.

She was GREAT on the subject of NOT killing SS; and on how killing SS would affect people, especially Black Americans.
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ihaveaquestion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Washington Journal shows are also broken down ...
by segment. Click on the "All recent programs >>" link at the bottom of the home page. There is a link for the Maya Rockeymoore segment - the second segment of the show.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. Just got another email from the DNC
They have 70,000 signatures and need 30,000 more to get 100,000. This is really important. Contact anyone you know who will sign this.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. 21 talking pts: why bush's plan for SS SUCKS

USE the below HOWEVER YOU SEE FIT.




I keep adding to this as associated with sources.

I intend this to be a program of innoculation: get ready for the Rovian media blitz. Use this however you desire as far as I am concerned. I have simply organized the information from a variety of helpful sources. marsha hammond, phd



21 REASONS WHY PRESIDENT BUSH'S PLAN FOR SOCIAL SECURITY IS A BAD IDEA AND IN FACT IS MISLEADING :
(WAYS TO INNOCULATE YOURSELF AGAINST THE ONCOMING MEDIA BLITZ):
A story of how Social Security is not like a 'pig in a python' (but that's what Bush and company are telling you)
We are being scammed to pay for the war on Iraq & associated deficits


You will notice that points have references; see those references at the end of these points. This is not intended to be an 'academic presentation'; thus, the URL's which you can check for yourself.



1. WHO WANTS THE CHANGE AND HOW WILL THEY 'FRAME' THE ISSUE? Wall Street wants privatization in order reap a windfall profit. Everyone else should be very suspicious. If the stock market goes down, your benefits go down.

This is what you will hear from Bush and company: "right now we are on an unsustainable course." They say, 'its unfixable as it is.' They will say: 'the problem will just grow and grow as more and more boomers come on board to obtain their Social Security benefits.' They will say: "the trust fund is empty.

Quite the contrary: Social Security funds are actually increasing and....and will actually expand for 10 more years because of the interest it receives from Treasury bonds. Could it be that Bush and company are worried because, "the government has already used the annual surpluses to finance its operating deficits." (Edmund L. Andrews; The New York Times ; Monday 10 January 2005)

That's right: Bush and company have used the surplus which usually accumulates along with the principal money in order to do something about the deficit that they have created over the past 4 years.



2. EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE SURPRISED: WAS THIS 'TWEAKING' OF SOCIAL SECURITY MEANT TO TAKE PLACE PERIODICALLY? : YES "What people forget is that the baby boom is not like a pig in the python," said Kent Smetters, an associate professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania and a former senior official in Mr. Bush's Treasury Department. "If you just balance it over the next 75 years, it just means we have to come back and do the same thing all over again about 15 years from now," Professor Smetters said. (Edmund L. Andrews; The New York Times ; Monday 10 January 2005)



3. WHY ARE WE BEING TOLD WE NEED TO 'DO SOMETHING ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY'? The nation's baby boomers start to retire at the end of this decade and relatedly the cost of retirement benefits is expected to rise much faster than payroll taxes from active workers. Obviously, payments become higher with each generation of retirees, even after accounting for inflation. By 2042, the trust fund will have used up its reserves and payroll taxes will cover only about 70 percent of the promised benefits.


4. WON'T WE HAVE TO PAY FOR CHANGING TO PRIVATE ACCOUNTS?? HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST US? : the Bush administration deems the current system, with its average monthly benefit of $955, as too generous (that's less than $12,000/ year). The Bush Administration wants to cut benefits by more than 40% to help pay the trillions of dollars that would be needed for the creation and maintenance of private accounts. http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=41481

This doesn't make sense given that now Social Security is the most efficient government system ever instigated, utilizing only 1% of the overall funds to manage the monthly Social Security payments for millions of people. More than 99 percent of Social Security's revenues go toward benefits, and less than 1 percent for overhead. The Social Security System is legally separate from the rest of the budget. Bush wants to discontinue that. This will make it difficult it not impossible to track in terms of is the Social Security money really being used for other purposes like making war on Iraq.

Where's all that money right now? "The Social Security trust fund has accumulated more than $1.5 trillion in reserves, held in Treasury bonds." (Edmund L. Andrews; The New York Times ; Monday 10 January 2005)



5. WHO IN BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION IS DRIVING THE MATTER? Karl Rove, Bush's right hand man: He is attempting to convince the public that Social Security is 'heading for an iceberg." )http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6791950)


4. WHY WOULD KARL ROVE WANT TO PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY? Rove sees it as : “one of the most important conservative undertakings of modern times,....“We need to establish in the public mind a key fiscal fact: right now we are on an unsustainable course,” the e-mail said. “That reality needs to be seared into the public consciousness; it is the precondition to authentic reform.....government and toward giving greater power and responsibility to individuals,” said Wehner, the director of White House Strategic Initiatives. " Who is this Wehner? : Peter Wehner, the deputy to White House political director Karl Rove. Thus, Rove is attempting to continue the line of 'getting government out of your lives' which is a recipe to allow corporations unbridled power and individuals no retirement through Social Security. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/679195


5. WHAT STRATEGIES ARE BEING UTILIZED IN ORDER TO CONVINCE THE PUBLIC OF THE NEED FOR PRIVATIZATION OF SOCIAL SECURITY?: "The administration has suggested that it would be justified in borrowing some $2 trillion to establish private accounts because doing so would head off $10 trillion in future
Social Security liabilities. It's bad enough that the $10 trillion is a highly inflated figure, intended to overstate a problem that is reasonably estimated at $3.7 trillion or
even considerably less. Worse are the true dimensions of the administration's proposed ploy, which were made painfully clear in a memo that was leaked to the press last week. Written in early January by Peter Wehner.".....(Rove's right hand person): http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/opinion/10mon1.html?ex=1106369074&ei=1&en=81cd3e12f07545a0


6. WHAT WOULD ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE RE: THIS PRIVATIZATION EFFORTS PER BUSH/ ROVE / THE REPUBLICANS? : "Revamping the system to allow investment accounts would not shore up the future finances and would make the financial picture worse. The administration is considering borrowing $1 trillion to $2 trillion to continue paying benefits to current retirees while tax revenue is diverted into personal accounts, called transition costs, Wehner's e mail said (per this article, this e mail was verified by the White House). Separately, to address the future financial shortfall, the administration is looking at plans to cut future promised benefits, by 46 percent in some cases, with investments expected to make up the difference." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/679195


7. WHO ELSE UNDERLINES THAT THIS IS WHAT WOULD ACTUALLY OCCUR? : " The real impact of President Bush's Social Security privatization scheme: massive cuts in promised benefits. The White House is expected to propose a new system of calculating Social Security benefits called "price indexing." The technical change would mean "cutting promised benefits by nearly a third in the coming decades" – with even deeper cuts in the future. For example, if the "price indexing" change is made, "a retiree in 2075 would receive 54 percent of the benefits now promised." David C. John, a Social Security expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation called the proposal "very much like sticking your hand in a wasp nest.": American Progress Action Fund" <progress@americanprogressaction.org


8. WHAT ARE SOME POINTS THAT YOU MIGHT EXPECT TO HEAR FROM BUSH AND THE REPUBLICANS? Talk about: PRICE INDEXING: The current method of calculating Social Security benefits is adjusted to reflect the standard of living when a person retires. That means when your benefits are calculated based on your average earnings, the salary you made 25 years ago is adjusted upwards to reflect the overall rise in wages (wage growth) since that time. The "price indexing" plan, expected to be proposed by Bush, would make that adjustment based on the rise of consumer prices – essentially the inflation rate. Since wages rise much faster than inflation, that means your newly adjusted salary will be lower. The end result is far lower benefits for every new generation of retirees. If this system had been in place since Social Security's inception, people today would be retiring with a benefit tied to the living standard of the 1930s, when 40 percent of households lacked indoor plumbing.: progress@americanprogressaction.or


9. WHAT ELSE CAN WE EXPECT TO COME OUT WAY RE: THIS PUSH FOR PRIVATIZATION? : You will hear talk about how it will be cheaper in the long-run to privatize at least part of Social Security. Specifically, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan claims, "The cost is $10 trillion if we do nothing. So what you're talking about would be a significant savings over those costs." There are two problems with this argument. First, the $10 trillion figure grossly distorts the modest long-range deficit of the Social Security program by projecting that shortfall over eternity. (There is no shortfall at all until 2052. Projections beyond 2052, obviously, are extremely unreliable.) Second, and more fundamentally, "borrowing $2 trillion to fund individual accounts does nothing to reduce Social Security's long-term deficit." Under the Bush plan the long-term deficit is reduced through deep benefit cuts.: progress@americanprogressaction.or


10. WHAT ARE SOME OTHER MATTERS ASSOCIATED WITH RETIREMENT SAVINGS THAT WILL BE BOUGHT UP? The Thrift Savings Plan: what is it land what might be the downsides of such a model, which could be part of the Rovian onslaught?
the Thrift Savings Plan could serve as a possible model for personal investment accounts in Social Security.
Numerous readers said the two programs are unrelated and that the TSP, which relies on federal payroll systems for its basic operation, cannot be replicated on a scale as large as Social Security. Others said a column about the plan failed to stress that the TSP is a voluntary savings program that supplements Social Security, a tax-based program. Cavanaugh's paper (The paper, "Feasibility of Social Security Individual Accounts," was published by the AARP Public Policy Institute. AARP is opposing Bush's plan), for example, says that personal accounts in Social Security will cost more to manage than those in the TSP, in part because the TSP can rely on hundreds of federal agencies to administer payroll deductions and provide retirement planning and other services.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61607-2005Jan9.html?referrer=email


11. SO THE THRIFT SAVINGS PLAN APPEARS TO WORK FOR LARGER PERSONAL INVESTMENT ACCOUNTS, YES? The paper also points out that TSP operates on a progressive fee system (usually 60 cents per $1,000 account balance) so that holders of the higher account balances absorb part of the cost of maintaining smaller accounts. Such a fee system would not work in Social Security because too many accounts would be small, the paper contends. Social Security relies on the government to absorb inflation and market risks, while the TSP shifts those risks to individual investors, Cavanaugh writes. "Attempts to combine these two fundamentally different programs are like mating a bear with a bee -- somebody is going to get hurt," he concludes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61607-2005Jan9.html?referrer=email


12. WHY DOES WALL STREET WANT THE CHANGE? In the background, beyond private accounts, are various proposals to cut guaranteed Social Security
benefits in the future.


13. BUT WE WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER DEPRESSION AS IN 1929: wrong: In 1973-74, the stock
market lost 48 percent of its value. The stock market is a very dangerous place to put money



14. WHO DOES NOT WANT THE CHANGE? (1) AARP, the nation's largest seniors organization, is coming out
strongly against President Bush's plan to allow private individual accounts
within Social Security. (2) On January 10, 2005, a NY Times Opinion piece stated this: "In this and other ways, the administration is manipulating
information - a tacit, yet devastating, acknowledgement, we believe, that an informed public would reject privatizing Social Security." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/opinion/10mon1.html?ex=1106369074&ei=1&en=81cd3e12f07545a0


15. HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST TO PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY? transitioning to private accounts could cost $2 trillion. See above information also.


16. TO REVIEW, WHERE WOULD THAT MONEY COME FROM? our taxes will have to be increased to make Bush's proposed plan work.


17. THEY TELL US THAT SOCIAL SECURITY IS BROKE OR GOING BROKE?: With all the clamoring about Social Security, a simple fact has been obscured: the Social Security budget is currently running a surplus; progress@americanprogressaction.or


18. OTHER COUNTRIES MUST HAVE SOCIAL SECURITY AND MAYBE THOSE ARE BETTER? wrong: Chile's system, management fees are around 20 times as high. A privatized system will take money from your Social Security check.


19. SHOULD YOU BE WORRIED THAT YOU WILL NOT HAVE SOCIAL SECURITY? Nothing is going to change, in terms of benefits, for people near your retirement age.


20. WHO TAXED SOCIAL SECURITY TO BEGIN WITH? Ronald Reagan, a Republican, began the taxation on Social Security in 1983.


21. IF WE ARE GOING TO 'FIX IT' HOW DO WE KNOW WHAT TO DO AS RELATED TO WHAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST TO 'FIX' IT? "If you compare its position now with its position at the time of the last reforms in 1977 and 1983, it's clearly better," Professor Diamond said. "Even then, it was readily fixed without radical reforms, and it's obvious that can be done again." (a professor of economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a co-author of the book "Saving Social Security.")





There is no Social Security crisis, just as there were no weapons of mass destruction. Social Security has provided a lifeline to millions of Americans with
millions of checks, and in more than 60 years has never missed a payment—and this track record can continue. Social Security is basically a sound system
that can meet 100 percent of its obligations for the next 39 years, and with responsible changes it can continue to do so indefinitely.

"Social Security is not a crisis for which enormous borrowing, huge benefit
cuts and risky private accounts are a solution. Rather,
it's a financial problem of manageable proportions,
solvable without new borrowing by a combination of modest
benefit cuts and tax increases that could be distributed
fairly and phased in over several decades, while
guaranteeing a basic level of inflation-proof income for
life." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/opinion/10mon1.html?ex=1106369074&ei=1&en=81cd3e12f07545a0


And don't forget: It remains a fact that 30% of the votes in this national election were cast, and 80% of the votes were compiled, by three private companies, owned and controlled by conservative Republicans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/05/01/12_give.html




REFERENCES:




Edmund L. Andrews; The New York Times ; Monday 10 January 2005:

HTtp://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=41481

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6791950)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/opinion/10mon1.html?ex=1106369074&ei=1&en=81cd3e12f07545a0


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61607-2005Jan9.html?referrer=email


progress@americanprogressaction.or


Social Security Tax Hike Feared
By Alan Fram
The Associated Press





ADDENDUM:

IS SOCIAL SECURITY GOING BUST (FOR THOSE IN THEIR 20'S NOW)": We are being told by Bush (week ending January 15, 2005) that the system is ' going bankrupt.' This is a lie. "The facts: The Social Security system cannot go "bankrupt," for it has no creditors. By law, the trustees will continue to pay reduced benefits even if the trust fund is exhausted. Payroll taxes will continue to come in and benefits will continue to be paid. According to the trustees' intermediate economic forecast (neither doom nor boom), the trust fund will be able to pay about 73 percent of scheduled benefits in 2042 and about 68 percent of scheduled benefits in 2078. http://www.dailyhowler.com/

Bush, week ending January 15, 2005, stated: "Bush: "Most younger people in America think they'll never see a dime."
The facts: Social Security says younger people will see a lot more than a dime. Their retirement benefits–even under a "flat-bust" system–will be significantly higher than today's benefits in real terms. http://www.dailyhowler.com/ For low-income Americans, currently scheduled benefits for those who retire in 2080 are $19,906 per year in 2004 dollars. If Social Security can pay only 68 percent of those benefits, that would be $13,536 per year, compared with benefits of $8,804 for low-income retirees who retired last year. For the highest earners, Social Security is currently promising $53,411 per year for those who retire in 2080 (or $36,319 per year if Social Security can pay only 68 percent). Current maximum benefits are $21,891 per year for those who retired last year.


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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Thanks for posting this and putting it together.
It is very helpful. I printed it out for reference.
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skyounkin Donating Member (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. Not that you listen to anything but....
the goddamn voices in your head I know you won't listen to this but that won't stop me from saying it. It is wrong to tie Social Security to race and gender.

That's what I wrote and I hope the scumbag reads it personally.:mad:
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