4th Amendment dies today.

[Rex]

Court OKs Dog Sniff During Traffic Stop

Monday January 24, 2005 9:46 PM


WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court ruled Monday that police can have dogs check out motorists' vehicles for drugs even if officers have no particular reason to suspect illegal activity.

The 6-2 opinion, written by Justice John Paul Stevens, stipulates police dogs may sniff only the outside of a car after a motorist is lawfully stopped for a traffic violation, such as speeding or failing to stop at a stop sign.

But privacy rights advocates said the ruling would lead to far more traffic stops as a way to find drugs. They also warned that the decision could open the door to more expansive searches, from sniffs inside the vehicle to checks of cars parked along sidewalks and pedestrians on the street.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4753156,00.html

WTF does "no particular reason to suspect" mean?

Any DU lawyers wanna take a poke at that?

Ya know why they are doing this?

We allowed them to on Dec, 12 2000.

Now look what we got.

EDIT

Here ya go:

Amendment IV - Search and seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am4

[Bluebear]

1. USA 1776-2000

[cheezus]

2. does that mean they can require a blood test to check BAC

even if the driver doesn't seem intoxicated?

[enki23]

3. is there an objective way to determine whether the dog smells something?

of course not. all this is, is a completely open door to searching a vehicle whenever a cop feels like it, so long as said cop has a dog handy.

[hollowdweller]

23. About half these dogs don't work. They are just a handy excuse to search

I know people who have been searched that had stuff and the dog didn't even hit the car. I know people that have never had ANYTHING in their car and supposedly the dog hit it. I have known people that said the dog went NUTS when it got to where their weed was. I know of other people who were searched that could in no way tell that the dog made any indication that there was anything.

I saw a peice on this recently and several cases were thrown out when the defense objectivly showed that the dog who sniffed couldn't pass muster. Apparently there is tremendous demand for these dogs and every Tom Dick and Harry is training them and not every dog is capable of doing this type of work.

[karlrschneider]

4. And how long before they can walk into your home without warrants?

Slippery slope, anybody?
:grr:

[arcane1]

6. or at least let the doggie sniff around your door

:mad:

[Tony_Illinois]

10. Doesn't the "Patriot Act" allow that now?

[China_cat]

34. That's already happened.

Or haven't you read the PATRIOT act?

[arcane1]

5. fuck that!!

gods I'm so glad I don't drive anymore...

they can basically now sniff out anyone's car, the cop just has to say you were 'weaving' or some other such non-sense

:grr:

[Disturbed]

7. Raising the dog employment stats?

A lot more jobs for dogs coming soon.

[Rex]

9. Prison nation

War on drugs builds huge prisons to hold people that are terrorists. Go fig.

[napi21]

8. So don't be stupid! Don't carry the MJ in your car!!!

I don't believe in illegal search and seizure at all, but let's be real here. If you're stupid enough to run a stop sign, red light, or bread the speed limit while you've got stuff in your car, you're just stupid.

BTW, dogs are the MOST unbiased anti crime seekers you can ever find! They're rarely ever wrong.

If you want to break the laws, at least get smart!

[yankeedem]

12. Guess you've never heard of cops planting stuff

Or cops pulling cars over for that "Driving While Black" offence.

Or cops using dogs just to harass citizens who have a little too much to say.

Must be nice in your world. In mine, we need the 4th amendment.

[Rex]

14. That was what I was thinking about.

And ya know what the shit of it is? Our new AG just LOVES the idea of torturing MFS.

Ain't that sweet?

[Bluebear]

15. Exactly. I have a very nice auto and an old beater pickup truck...

that I use to haul stuff etc. When I drive the old beater at a "certain time of night" I am always getting trailed by the local PD who I am sure is running the plate to see if I "belong" in my nice little town.

[shadowknows69]

25. they're gonna have to haul me away

I'm citing the 4th amendment when I refuse to let them search and then I'll use my right to remain silent when they cuff and beat me.

[Solon]

30. Not just Driving While Black either...

Around my area, and I'm sure around others, cops have the "Driving While Young" practice. They target certain cars and people who either look young enough to be teens, or listen to the music, and pull them over. I had one buddy have his dashboard ripped out of his car because the cops wanted to search for drugs. The funny thing around here is that, the plain view practice doesn't matter. If they ask and you say no to a search, they then have probable cause, at least that is what the cop told me the last time I was pulled over. I have been driving for over 7 years, had only 2 speeding tickets in all that time, but have been pulled over at least twice a year, almost like clockwork.

[Bluebear]

13. If we are going to "be real here"

..and I just got through defending police on another thread, and don't use drugs, but do you think every officer just stops 'lawbreakers'? They can't say you were "weaving" or something? Are you willing to give up rights and like Ashcroft say "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear"?

[CrispyQ]

20. "Failure to come to a complete stop"

...is the fave in my little town. DA almost always drops it cuz it can be arbitrary (and they see it so much!), but once they've got you, you're at their mercy.

[against all enemies]

18. It's freakin 0 degrees out today, am I supposed to ride my bike?

Why don't you stop being stupid? MJ is a criminal offense because minorities and liberals are more apt to partake. What if the US had marijuana laws similar to Canada's. There would be no way for the police to harass minorities, kids and the poor. How about a dog that smells Chablis or maybe Grey Goose?

And I like the way you accuse the members of running stop signs; the offense is probably more like a tail light out, or 26 miles per hour in a 25 mph zone. I hope you are young and naive because if you're old you missed the boat.

[Bluebear]

19. What happens if you buy a used car that once had drugs in it?

Just askin'. Say you get charged with possession with intent to deliver. The second bit is always added on. If you are out of your home state when that happens, then you are charged with interstate drug trafficking, and that is a federal crime. And that has mandatory minimum sentences of ten years, no parole.

[Columbia]

22. Why is it the state's business what plants are in my car?

[GreenArrow]

11. already dead...

just another shovel of dirt in the grave.

[Columbia]

21. Yup

Died circa 1970 (formation of the DEA).

[stopbush]

16. The force of the 4th Amendment hinges on the "probable cause,"

"oath of affirmation" and specificity of place/person/thing to be searched aspects. "Unreasonable searches and seizures" is a moving line in the sand, especially with bushco in charge.

[Rex]

17. makes corruption that much easier

Thanks Uncle Don Scalia

[Bluebear]

26. Be very afraid.

[atre]

29. ... or "reasonable suspicion" for the brief stop and frisk

just to clarify.

[Bluebear]

31. kick

[oneighty]

24. Keep spray bottle of ammonia on hand?

Moth balls? Confuse the dogs?

180

[China_cat]

33. Those things don't work

Transport a bitch in heat. Every chance you get. Even female drug dogs will alert on the scent and make themselves look really bad when nothing is found.

If enough people did this and caused serious gridlocks, the practice would stop soon enough.

[oneighty]

35. One would require a steady supply of such bitches.

I have read about ammonia and other chemicals possibly confusing a dog's scenting mechanisms. But of course I have no first hand information.

I once bought a car from a friend of mine. The son of the fellow showed up to retrieve the small bag of pot seed he had stashed in the trunk. I would have had a hard time explaining that to a curious policeman had I been stopped.

I guess I would be guilty by association.

Off with his head!

180

[KnowerOfLogic]

27. And the corpse begins to rot.... nt

[atre]

28. This isn't new

The plain view doctrine (or "plain sense" in this case) was expanded to include police dog sniffing as far back as United States v. Place.

This is only the tip of the iceberg as far as Fourth Amendment jurisprudence goes for the legal laymen out there. You'd be surprised to see the sort of sophistry that goes on to accommodate new police practices.

[proudbluestater]

32. Why would only TWO justices dissent with this ruling!??

My son got pulled over for "driving too fast for conditions," had his car searched, had his fingerprints taken, had to submit to a breathalyzer. bullshit.