'Christian' bootcamps aim to cure 'nice guys'

[KurtNYC]

From the Chino (christian in name only) crowd.

Churches and Christian groups worldwide are organising military-style boot camps and "weekend warrior" retreats to help men fight their perceived emasculation within church-going societies. The inspiration for the movement is Wild at Heart, a book by Colorado-based author John Eldredge, who believes "God designed men to be dangerous". The book has already sold 1.5 million copies in English and been translated into 16 languages.
...
He believes most men abandon paths of adventure and risk, and Christianity, which often "feels like nothing more than pressure to be a nice guy", is in part to blame.

"It is no wonder that many men avoid church, and those who go are often passive and bored to death," he says. The kind of character Mr Eldredge cites is Russell Crowe in Gladiator as he fights noble battles and finds adventure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/24/warrior24.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/24/ixworld.html

[On the Road]

1. Oh, Dear God

Can anyone imagine what the result will be? Christian militas maybe? Nooooooo....how could that happen?

[jokerman93]

49. Now, christian pit bulls - just great...

"Forget steroids - I'm powered by Cheeerist!"

These brutes will make good neighborhood patrols and intimidators when the time comes for curfews in our cities.

I've come to worry lately about the brown-shirting of the christers. They have the necessary psychology. I have no doubt there are those in power who are quite aware of this - and now the dominion cultists are getting their own boot camps. I would REALLY like to know what kind of militant dogma they'll be spewing in these private training camps.

Got a bad feeling about this.

[On the Road]

61. Jesus Had at Least Two Zealots Among His Followers

and Christianity was long seen as a kind of death cult because joining the church made you liable to be arrested and fed to the lions.

So in one sense, I don't really argue with the characterization. It's partly that they're serving the wrong side. Jesus opposed Roman imperialism and especially the upper-class Jewish quislings who enabled them.

[ComerPerro]

2. Why don't they just enlist and go to Iraq?

[htuttle]

3. Excuse me, but which New Testament have they been reading?

Is it that one that Anton LeVey wrote? Because somebody should tell them that is probably not the same book as they think it is...

[jhain]

4. FREEDOMMMMMM

I keep expecting Bush to show up in a kilt ala Mel...

somebody photoshop one up for me!
Maybe using the shot of him in the coat and boots and gloves from a few weeks ago??

[KurtNYC]

8. If it will make you happy....

[jhain]

47. can't see it n/t

[rocktivity]

55. Weird--neither can I

:headbang:
rocknation

[jhain]

62. still can't see it

usually have no problem...
oh well.I have the imagined visual....

[notadmblnd]

59. looks like he could be Joe Dirts' dady

nt

[TWiley]

11. Freedom-ination !

[JHB]

16. Here they come!

[Cocoa]

5. I have a better role model for boys

instead of Russel Crowe in his role in a revenge movie, how about Jesus?

I know I know, he's a wimp, and talk about boring!

[Jack The Tab]

7. Better yet, how about Jesus in "Passion of the Christ"?

Isn't that who Christians want to emulate? And Mel made such a spectacular film about his life and teachings....

wait...it wasn't about his life now was it?

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

6. the meek shall inherit the earth???

Sometimes I wonder if these wackos actually have read the OT and NT in their entirety.

It also appears this dude never saw Gladiator either. Maximus did not fight to be macho or a stud... he fought because he had to do that as a gladiator, which was really a glorified fighting slave/outcast/criminal in Roman times. I think he may be confusing Gladiator with the Chuck Norris crapola movies out there.

[txaslftist]

9. It is HARD to be a Christian...

The path is very narrow.

Because God commanded us, when your enemy strikes you on the left cheek, turn to him the right. When he steals your blanket, offer him your coat, also.

It's a pacifist faith. Read any decent book about Ghandi and you will see that pacifism is HARD WORK. It requires dedication and discipline unlike anything these "boot camps" are going to instill.

Christian boot camps... what a pathetic attempt to reconcile our inner sinfulness and desire for violence with a non-violent religion. This is ludicrous.

Unless they are training men to be struck and to not strike back, it is NOT a Christian enterprise. It's hypocracy.

[TWiley]

10. There ya go! Change Jesus into a Bloodthirsty thug

just so you don't have to endure the pain of a meaningful spiritual conversion. Instead of changing ones-self, simply change the defination Jesus!

With that in mind, the rest of us need to update our conceptions of Christianity as well. A person should know that any donation to a Christian outfit will only buy assult weapons for the KKK.

[KurtNYC]

15. You nailed it

Instead of changing ones-self, (they) simply change the definition (of) Jesus

[JHB]

19. That's what always astounds me when these guys say I'm "arrogant"...

...because I'm an atheist.

I think Jesus was a normal person, probably earnest-to-the-point-of-slightly-wacky but still normal, who had a bunch of good things to say about getting along with our fellow man. When I ignore his advice, I ignore his advice and do what I think is right.

These guys worship him as God, so when they ignore his advice, they have to rewrite everything he said to suit themselves.

Which of us is more "arrogant"?

[yurbud]

12. wahabbis already having these kind of boot camps

They could save some money and just send their guys to the al Qaeda camps.

[David__77]

13. Another sign of a decadent empire in decline.

The religion is being twisted to fit the whims of man. These are people who are presumably literalist about scripture but they engage in such things. Luckily, I'm secular...

[unpossibles]

14. not only do they not read the Bible

but apparently they have not seen the movies either.

Gladiator is about a soldier who wants peace with his family, and gets pulled into fighting because he is almost killed and his family is raped and killed.

Plus he was a pagan. Duh!

Braveheart had a similar theme - he was fighting both for the freedom of his land against the oppressors AND because they killed his wife.

I seem to have forgotten the Bible verse which states "kill thine enemy" or "become a Bad MoFo".....

[mumon]

17. "God designed men to be dangerous"

And that's why Jesus told twelve men to eat...ah, better not go there....

[ClassicDem]

18. What a splendid idea.

Maybe we can send some of our leaders in the Senate and Congress to something like this that way they will stop being pushovers.

[hunter]

20. If I was a certain kind of "nice guy..."

The idea of these camps would make me horny.

:silly:

[BiggJawn]

21. "Promisekeepers' meets the "New Warrior's Training ADVENTURE"...

Or "Tim Lahaye reads 'Iron John"..."

Wooo. Peee.

[bmbmd]

22. "Wild at Heart"

is a great read. If you have not read it, perhaps you should before passing judgement.

[RetroLounge]

29. I liked the movie better

Nick Cage and Laura Dern!

RL

[WoodrowFan]

23. full contact Bible Study!!

arrrrrrrrrrrgghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[hector459]

24. Men avoid "church" and "Christianity (religion)" because to be a true

"Christian" means being a responsible individual and requires sacrifice and committment AND because they know a "con" in the pulpit when they see one. In order to attrack men now, a new marketing tool must be used: "the warrior image." something that is totally different from the image Christ presented. It won't be long before you will be seeing 'tin Christian soldiers' carrying the most sophisticated weapons.

[BiggJawn]

38. Like "Bibleman"??

"Bibleman Platinum"


"Bibleman El Furioso"


Oh, NO! It's "Luxor Spawndroth!"

"The villain of temptation, Luxor Spawndroth. While Luxor uses temptation to cause trouble, he is no match for Bibleman, the caped Christian that stands ready to battle evil armed with the Word of God.

I avoid Church because they teach religion there.

[geniph]

45. Instead of the Buddy Christ,

we need the Battlebot Christ!

[ernstbass]

25. Maybe they could start a vacation bible school for these guys

[jhain]

50. been done

click around here ( but not on a full stomach)

http://www.campamerican.com/sessions.htm

[TWiley]

57. Unbelievable. Did you notice that there were NO speakers

delivering a "religious" message. EVERY SPEAKER was addressing legal topics ranging from "Constitutional law" to the "repsonsibilities of a republic"

Teaching "constitutional law" in sunday school is a big thing around here in militia country. You will notice they also have a speaker discussing militarism.

Bow to the new world Christian, or else they will blow your FUCKING head off.

[kweerwolf]

26. Watch for Mel Gibson's new movie ...

"Passion of the Christ II: The Second Coming" ... He's back! He's pissed off! And He's gonna make Rambo look like a sissy!

[msmcghee]

27. When will people realize that . .

. . being liberal or conservative has nothing to do with reason or logic or education - as is so often expressed here at DU (and just as often at FR).

It comes from a liberal or conservative mindset (worldview) that develops in us as we grow up. Once that mindset starts to solidify some of us will spend amazing amounts of personal energy "learning" the most effective arguments to justify our particular view.

We'll even convince ourselves that those justifications are actually the reasons why our mindest is the "true" way to look at the world.

Some in the world believe that gaining and using power over others is the path to happiness and success as a human. They identify with the power that is currently in control. They support the status quo. They hate and are threatened by social ambiguity - religious, moral, sexual, gender, etc. During periods when these folks gain the upper hand - cruel punishment for apostates and war become normal modes of life. Male oriented values and left brain technology, especially war technology flourish.

Some believe that happiness comes when people are fair, kind, open and inclusive toward others and their social expression. During these periods female oriented values like nurterance, inclusiveness and love - and right brain knowledge like the conjunction of the arts and the sciences flourish.

Human culture swings back and forth between these reformist and renaissance periods. It is a negative feedback (relaxation) oscillator. Reform periods advance until so many people suffer and are killed that the reformists finally tire of their destruction or run out of victims- and that allows a new age of renaissance to flower.

The personal freedom of renaissance provides many opportunities for reformists to take over and regain control of the loose system and institute their strict "moral reforms". Eventually they do.

When the world is in one of these modes or the other - it seem as if that is the way the world has always worked and the other view seems ludicrous or hopelessly naive and impossible.

GW Bush and Osama bin Laden are the defacto world leaders of the current reformist movement - just as Saladin and Richard the Lionheart were in the twelfth century. Even the religious alignments are the same. The Mullahs hate secular Arabs as much as Jerry Falwell and Christian Republicans hate homosexuals.

Their followers, the psychologically conservative on each side, see our liberal worldview as ludicrous, naive and immoral.

Like the last major reformation (Protestant, 17th century) they will continue to gain power until they've destroyed enough of the world's innocent humanity in their need to cleanse the world of social ambiguity - that they get tired of it. When liberals resist reformation that only gives the reformists more fuel for their righteous hatred. Enjoy the ride.

[Beware the Beast Man]

28. And Jesus wept...

that's all I can say :(

[salin]

30. Sad and ironic things that folks in history have done

in His name...

Wonder if dude is a so-called "Born Again" (their phrase) who believes as Bush did who proclaimed that "Jesus changes your heart"? Because despite all of that "personal relationship with Jesus" rhetoric... seems dude doesn't have a clue as to the teachings of Christ.

Says this perpetually-puzzled-at-this-brand-of-Christianitys- manifestations Christian.

Then again - dude could just be angling to make a buck in Christ's name (another thing that I think that would lead Christ to weep)

[Proud2BAmurkin]

31. BWAhahaha. Sorry, no hope for the Repuke Dickless Wonders.

They're all like their true lord and master, Dickless Dubya.

[CBHagman]

32. I need to know more about what these "boot camps" actually are.

For example, do they actually encourage aggression and even blood sports, or do they merely use the warrior as a metaphor? Are they teaching men to love their wives as Christ loves the church (i.e., nurturing, laying down one's life) or to model what George Lakoff calls the strict father model, which involves domination and the inability to countenance other points of view?

Details matter here.

By the way, I am more than a little amused by using the film "Braveheart" to teach men about their roles. Didn't the guys notice that the Mel Gibson character A) had sex with another man's wife and B) wound up extremely dead?

[KurtNYC]

36. On the advice of poster #22

I checked out the reviews of the guy's book. It does seem a bit less misguided than the article made out, just a bit.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785268839/qid=1106768387/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-2426546-4705501

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Great, just what this country needs

More guys who are mean and dumb. :-(

[saltpoint]

34. New movement: Jack-Booted Thugs for Jesus.

"We have to kick your ass to save it."

[dutchdoctor]

35. Do they get slapped on the cheek? How are they supposed to react?

[htuttle]

42. Well, that 'turn the other cheek' stuff is SO 1st Century, you know

Gotta update the New Testament for the 'Post 9/11 World'!

[Stuckinthebush]

37. Dear Lord, please protect us from your followers

There are no words that can adequately describe this tripe.

[arwalden]

39. Je-e-e-sus!! Hello-o-o? We're W-A-A-AITING!! Come on! Any day now!!

Hurry up and do that rapture-thing! I'm as eager for you to come take away all of you your followers as THEY are.

Let's get this show on the road! They want to leave! We want to get rid of them! This is a win-win situation, man... let's get with it!

[Dhalgren]

51. Yes! I'm with you there!

Come on! Sweet Jesus! Take these...these...'people' to heaven - take them now! Not only will we be rid of them, but we'll get all of their stuff that will just be lying around, unattended! It's a win-win-win situation! Let's go Rapture, let's go!

[eagler]

40. The article mentions Fuller theological seminary which is

heavily associated with Reverend Moon. Notice the Korean studies dept..http://www.fuller.edu/swm/swmks/

[Dhalgren]

52. Oh, it's a Moon thing. Makes sense now...

[TWiley]

58. Doesn't Rev Moon own a large portion of the media in the US?

I thought I read that somewhere

[tubbacheez]

60. Moon owns the Washington Times. n/t

[DrGonzoLives]

41. Eh?

I thought only us softie, feminism-loving liberal elitist slime were emasculated. Silly me.

[Dhalgren]

53. Yeah, that's true, but see - we like women.

I mean, even the ones of us who don't like having sex with them, still actually like women as wonderful human beings. These "boot camp" types don't actually like women - never have, never will. They think of women as good to "use" - but that's about it. So they need to be taught how to act like men, because they never actually WILL be men. See?

[geniph]

43. If they want to be weekend warriors, there's an organization for that

It's called the National Guard. They should join up and try it out!

...of course, they might get a little surprise and find those weekends last a little longer than they thought, but these guys all support the quagmire in Iraq, right? so they won't mind a little Stop Loss here and there.

[ernstbass]

44. Hope they include self flagellation in the boot camp

[Dhalgren]

54. Won't that make you go blind?

[oasis]

46. Christian's are in a one-upmanship war against blood thristy Islamists.

Winning is everything.

[ucmike]

48. I'm not just Christian...I AM AN EXTREEEME CHRISTIAN!!!

BITCHES!!!!

us EXTREEEME christians hope you will note the extra E's in EXTREEEME. its kind of our signature.

NOW WHERE'S MY CHRISTIAN EXTREEEME STREET LUGE???? its the one with the "Where Would Jesus Basejump" sticker on it.

[KurtNYC]

56. LOL - 'Where would Jesus basejump?'

[dansolo]

63. Hope he hands out enlistment forms in his camps

Why don't these guys become real warriors, instead of pretend warriors? Join the Armed Forces if they want to prove their manliness.

[codswallop]

64. Onward Violent Christian Soldiers

break out the balls