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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:25 AM
Original message
Unforgivable Blackness
Did anyone else see the new Ken Burns piece on PBS -- "Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson"? If so, what were your thoughts on it?

I saw it and liked it very much. Burns did an excellent job of putting the complete hypocrisy of US race relations at the turn of the 20th century on full display. I especially appreciated the way in which he pulled no punches in his (historically correct) depiction of Woodrow Wilson as possibly the most racist President we had after the Civil War.

I also liked the way that historians contrasted Johnson, Booker T. Washington and W.E.B DuBois as the most influential black figures of the Progressive Era, and the difference between the lives they lived and what they stood for. Personally, I've always been a big fan of DuBois, and I especially liked the way that even though DuBois disagreed with most of what Johnson did with his life, he correctly recognized that the reason that Johnson was being persecuted had everything to do with his "unforgivable blackness".
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Voltaire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. I saw it
And I bought the DVD and Book, got them over the weekend. I am black and my wife is white and let me tell you, she looked at me when it was done and she said "I finally UNDERSTAND why you feel the way you do about America." Thank God for Ken Burns for telling American History like it is.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Burns' piece was largely from Johnson's perspective...
That is, it attempted (and largely succeeded, IMHO) in telling Johnson's story from the perspective of "black" eyes, as opposed to telling it from the perspective of "white" eyes. Personally, I thought that this was perhaps the most valuable part of this work.

Of course, telling history from other perspectives is not always popular. Just look at the post by robcon, below, which snips a review by The New Republic. TNR seems to be miffed about this telling of a story from a largely "black" perspective, and their complaint, reading between the lines, seems to be about a lack of "balance". The funny thing about all of this, though, is that they would NEVER come close to howling this loudly about lack of "balance" if Burns had told the story from a predominantly white perspective. It is only when nonwhite perspectives are emphasized that calls for "balance" in historical perspective rear their heads.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes! Ken Burns is one of my favorites
It was a great piece. Right. I loved the contrast of the three men too. Johnson is definitely an enigmatic figure.

Sadly, a good sized segment of the U.S. still thinks along the same bigoted lines. We've made strides, yet still have far to go.
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Darknyte7 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. Saw it and loved it!
Edited on Wed Jan-26-05 11:35 AM by Darknyte7
In fact, I would love to have it on DVD.

In a thread over in the sports forum I made reference to this documentary and stated my opinion that Randy Moss is a modern day Jack Johnson.

It's sobering to realize just how little some things have changed for flamboyant Black athletes.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm not certain I'd agree with that comparison...
The primary difference being that Moss plays a team sport and Johnson participated in an individual sport. Moss's flamboyance isn't a problem -- hell, Terrell Owens is one of the most flamboyant players in football as well, and he's highly regarded by coaches and peers around the league. Moss's problem is that he demonstrates a complete lack of team concept on a regular basis (like walking off the field prior to a field goal try in the Vikings last regular-season game).

Furthermore, the downfall of Johnson wasn't from what he did in the ring -- there, he was unbeatable. His downfall was due to what he did OUTSIDE the ring, and how he pretty much spat in the face of the racist social mores of the time, living his life to the fullest without a care of what other people thought of him.
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Darknyte7 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. No, the parallel isn't perfect, but...
Edited on Wed Jan-26-05 12:13 PM by Darknyte7
I believe that comparison is apt because both mens' talent is superior to their contemporaries. Furthermore, the critisism that Moss has endured has been unfair and tinged with racism. Moss does not care what the press thinks of him. He gives interviews rarely. He dismisses questions he regards as rude or irrelevant. And most significantly--he doesn't seem to care what the pundits think of him. In other words, he doesn't know his place. And that, it seems, is his most unforgivable offense.

As a result, Moss is maligned at every opportunity. His astounding achievements as a receiver are attributed to "natural" athleticism. His story is framed as if his success is simply the product of genetic good fortune (the same thing can be said of nearly everyone in professional sports). His work ethic, his savvy, and his drive, meanwhile, are somehow viewed as suspect. So while Moss remains on pace to break every receiving record in NFL history, he is continually tagged with labels such as "lazy" and "not a team player." In a different era, the words might be different--"uppity" surely would have been deployed, as would "nigger"--but the meanings would be largely the same.

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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Some of the points you raise are completely valid...
... however, I still disagree, overall, with the comparison. Perhaps if Moss played an individual sport, as Johnson did, I'd see them more. I just can't get over the things he's done over the past couple of years that have shown that he really has absolutely no team concept in a team game.

If there's one sports star I'd actually compare Johnson to from recent times, it would be Charles Barkley. Barkley was criticized because he refused to fit into a nice, clean category for the portions of White America that embraced the NBA. He was criticized for being an outspoken black man, when you get down to it.

But perhaps the best parallel to Johnson was another boxer -- Muhammed Ali. The manner in which he was persecuted by White America for just being true to who he was and refusing to conform to THEIR standards was eerily parallel to what happened to Johnson.

In any event, thanks for an engaging discussion, even if we don't completely agree.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. I didn't see it but...
I read this savage review in TNR...

"...And now comes Ken Burns's four hour-long documentary about the life of the great black heavyweight boxer, Jack Johnson, a film that brings Caucasian condescension to a new low. This film is not, however, the product of a guilt-ridden white mind. Burns seems absolutely free of guilt. He seems, on the contrary, and with wide-eyed cynicism, adept at ransacking the painful historical experience--now long past--of another group of people for his own gain...."

https://ssl.tnr.com/p/docsub.mhtml?i=tube&s=siegel012405

Ouch!

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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. TNR can piss up a rope
Edited on Wed Jan-26-05 11:58 AM by IrateCitizen
The reason they don't like Burns' work is that it pulls absolutely no punches when displaying the reality of race relations during this period in history, and how that legacy still affects us today.

Burns' sin to the editors of TNR was that he told the story from more of a BLACK point of view as opposed to a WHITE point of view. The difference between these persepectives of American History during this time frame is immense, and both sides should be aired in order to gain a better understanding of what true effects and legacy our racial bigotry and hypocrisy in America has created. Seeing as how most historical accounts already trend toward the "white" perspective, Burns, in reality, is only attempting to balance the scale with a portrayal from the "black" perspective.

TNR appears to be upset that the piece was not "balanced" enough -- that since it was about Johnson, it portrayed the times through more "black" eyes than "white". However, I find it extremely difficult to believe that the editors of TNR would be howling quite so loudly had Burns done a series that told history strictly through "white" eyes. It is only when something tells a story through other-than-white eyes that "balance" is insisted upon.
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I agree
I thought it was a wonderful documentary.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Gotta love it.
Balance means we should make sure we present as compelling a case possible that the racists were right.
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