Will the tutu Dems fall into the Rove trap again and give Bush his $87bn?

[TruthIsAll]

It's deja vu. Rove put the Democratic wimps into a position of having to vote for the pre-emptive, illegal Iraq War in Oct. 2002.
And they all trotted out on the WH lawn pledging support for the little dictator, while ignoring the pleas of millions of their constitutents.

Fast Forward to the present. Biden praises Bush, who got us into this mess and now wants another $87 billion added to the $75 billion he has already spent in this quagmire while killing thousands in the process. And this is while Bush's poll numbers are under 50%.

Rove is daring the Dems to come out against the funding, so he can use it as a political bludgeon in 2004. It's either:
1) The Dems are not patriots, they voted against rebuilding Iraq or
2) The Dems support Bush, therefore he must be doing the right thing.

I say, if the Dems vote to give Bush $87 Billion and choose (2), then they deserve all the abuse they deserve.

When will they learn their lesson?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Actually the trap will be...we tried to fix our mistakes and do the

humanitarian thing to restore order but could not get the funds released.

[Jacobin]

8. I'm not trying to be difficult here. I'm really not

But. As I recall, there was order in Iraq until we invaded. Repression? Hell yes.

But how the heck do we think we can "restore order" when we are the ones that caused it, and the "lack of order" is caused by our continued existence in their country?

Surely a Pandora's box has been opened. But by staying there, we are making it worse day by day. Why do we think we need to be the new repressive regime? Will we kill those who attempt to repel us from their country any more kindly than Saddam killed those who sought to question his authority?

We jumped into a snake pit. The longer we stay, the more will be killed on both sides.


We need to get the hell out pronto.

[Brucey]

2. Tough spot again, because the repugs control

House and Senate. The best thing to do is to stall this thing and defeat it as much as possible. Don't sell out, but push for international cooperation.

[grytpype]

5. I think directly trying to defeat it is the wrong thing.

I think we should try to attach conditions to our support. Such as, we will support the $87GB only if the administration agrees to a full investigation of the run up to the war, compelled testimony under oath from everyone, documents, the whole thing.

[fujiyama]

12. good point

They should also hold hearings on who is profitting and where the money is going....and demand ABSOLUTE accountability! How much money for Haliburton? Are American corporations profitting in any way? These are all questions that must be asked...If they are not asked, then Biden should simply resign from the minority ranking member of the fr committee. hell, he should step down anyways because his unwillingness to call bush for what he is. but either way he should be a target for removal...

[RichM]

3. Obviously they will. The catch-phrase will be "We can't cut and run."

In the Albuquerque debate last week, only DK had the guts & wisdom to say we should get the hell out. (And even HE hedged it a bit by saying the UN should be in charge.)

Expect to hear "We can't cut and run" and "Stay the course" over and over again.

[RichV]

6. Probably so

"Expect to hear 'We can't cut and run' and 'Stay the course' over and over again."

Uh, probably. And I agree. What happens if we leave? There's no internal security or infrastructure thanks to us, there's no feasible national government to speak of, the Turks and Kurds to the north have been feuding forever, the Iranians would love a piece of that pie, and who knows what the Saddam loyalists would try to do. Remember the old man is still on the loose and the country is now infested with al-Qaeda. I was opposed to the war too, but no way in hell we get out and anything good comes of it unless we're replaced by willing troops/peacekeepers from other nations. And even then the violence is likely to persist. We need to do what Kerry and Dean have said and internationalize the force to ease the burden on our troops and treasury. But we can't just leave.

I'm sure this has been debated a million times here so I don't intend to threadjack. Sorry. Just bothered that DK was credited as brave and wise for saying we should let Iraq fend for itself. It's unrealistic.

[Jacobin]

9. vietnamvietnamvietnamvietnamvietnam

Same worn phrases. Same idiotic thinking. Same stupid results.

More dead people, more money spent, more good will squandered.

We fucked up.

We aren't gonna make it better. We will make it worse.

LEAVE NOW>

[Rose Siding]

4. They'll say they've won concessions

but nothing more than Buah already expects to give them, they'll say "We'll be watching you" with a little growl and then cave just like so many did last time. Then later, they'll confuse the issue of what it was they agreed to in the first place.

[leftofthedial]

7. almost certainly

Would a "yes" vote for the $87 B ($66 B is for military) be the immoral equivalent of the Iraq war powers vote?

[Cocoa]

10. not a Rove trap, imo

they really did not want to have to make this request now. They would have preferred to do it later in the fall when there would be less time to debate it. I think his doing it now is because he had no choice, things are going so bad, and the calls were coming so strong he was forced to do it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. Seems your prediction is coming true, TIA

Yahoo News

Lawmakers Backing Bush's $87B War Request

WASHINGTON - Republicans and Democrats predicted Monday that Congress will approve the $87 billion President Bush wants for Iraq and Afghanistan, but many said they would demand more details on administration policy in both countries.


WTF? I'm sick of these stupid SOBs.

[Philosophy]

13. Grudgingly give them the money

But with the explanation that they will make sure it is spent more wisely when a Democrat takes over the presidency next year.

[Upfront]

14. Rethugs

Control both houses of congress and the Whitehouse. If they want to give * 87 billion, they will. Democrats can't stop them if they wanted to.