Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bogus news story making right-wing rounds

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:57 PM
Original message
Bogus news story making right-wing rounds
My source (family member -- hillbilly with computer -- be afraid) sent me this in an email. It's obviously bogus, but some people are too stupid to see it.

_____________

August 12, 1945 WASHINGTON DC (Reuters) President Truman, just a few months into his young presidency, is coming under increasing fire from some Congressional Republicans for what appears to be a deteriorating security situation in occupied Germany, with some calling for his removal from office.

Over three months after a formal declaration of an end to hostilities, the occupation is bogged down. Fanatical elements of the former Nazi regime who, in their zeal to liberate their nation from the foreign occupiers, call themselves members of the Werwolf (werewolves) continue to commit almost-daily acts of sabotage against Germany's already-ravaged infrastructure, and attack American troops. They have been laying road mines, poisoning food and water supplies, and setting various traps, often lethal, for the occupying forces.

It's not difficult to find antagonism and anti-Americanism among the population--many complain of the deprivation and lack of security. There are thousands of homeless refugees, and humanitarian efforts seem confused and inadequate. In the wake of the budding disaster, some have called for more international participation in peacekeeping. A Red Cross official said that, "...the German people will be more comfortable if their conquerors weren't now their overlords. It makes it difficult to argue that this wasn't an imperialistic war when the occupying troops in the western sector are exclusively American, British and French."

The administration, of course, claims that, given the chaos of the recent war, such a situation is to be expected, and that things will improve with time. As to the suggestion to internationalize the occupying forces, the administration had no official comment, but an unofficial one was a repetition of the quote from General McAuliffe, when asked to surrender in last winter's Battle of the Bulge--"Nuts."

In an attempt to minimize the situation, a White House spokesman pointed out that the casualties were extremely light, and militarily inconsequential, particularly when compared to the loss rates prior to VE Day. Also, the attacks seem to be dying down with each passing month. But this statement was leaped upon by some as heartless, trivializing the deaths and injuries of young American men.

Many critics back in Washington seem now to be prescient, with their previous warnings of just such an outcome a little over a year ago. One congressman said that "...it's time to ask whether the German people are better off now than they were a few months ago. Yes, a brutal dictator has been deposed, but at least the electricity and water supply were mostly working, and the trains running on time. After years of killing them and destroying their infrastructure with American bombs, it seems to me that the German people have suffered enough without the chaos that our occupation, with its inadequate policing, is bringing."

It's not clear how much support the Werwolf has among the populace, who may be afraid to speak their true minds, given the fearfully overwhelming "Allied" presence in the country. But it is possible that, like the guerilla forces themselves, the people have been inspired by Propaganda Minister Josef Goebbels' pre-victory broadcasts, and those of Radio Werwolf. "God has given up the protection of the people . . . Satan has taken command." Goebbels broadcast last spring. "We Werewolves consider it our supreme duty to kill, to kill and to kill, employing every cunning and wile in the darkness of the night, crawling, groping through towns and villages, like wolves, noiselessly, mysteriously."

While no new broadcasts of Goebbels' voice have been heard since early May, no one can be certain as to whether he is alive or dead, and continuing to help orchestrate the attacks and boost morale among the forces for German liberation. As long as his fate, and more importantly, that of the former leader Adolf Hitler himself, remains unresolved, the prospects for pacifying the brutally conquered country may be dim. Although Grand-Admiral Donitz made a radio announcement of Hitler's brave death in battle to the beleaguered German people on the evening of May 1, some doubt the veracity of that statement, and there has been no evidence to support it, or any body identified as the former Fuehrer's.

Rumors of his whereabouts continue to abound, including reported sightings as far away as South America, and many still believe that he is hiding with the "Edelweiss" organization, with thousands of Wehrmacht troops, in a mountain stronghold near the Swiss border. Many have criticized flawed intelligence for our failure to find him, causing some, in the runup to next year's congressional elections, to call for an investigation.

A staffer of one prominent Senator said, "For months, starting last fall, we were told by this administration that Hitler would make a last stand in a 'National Redoubt' in Bavaria. General Bradley diverted troops to the south and let the Russians take Berlin on the basis of this knowledge. But now we find out that there was no such place, and that Hitler was in Berlin all along. And now we're told that we can't even be sure of where he is, or whether he's alive or dead."

For many, marching in the streets with signs of "No Blood For Soviet Socialism," and "It's All About The Coal," this merely confirmed that the administration had other agendas than its stated one, and that the war was unjustified and unjustifiable. General Bradley's staff has protested that this is an unfair criticism--that the strategic decision made by General Eisenhower was driven by many factors, of which Hitler's whereabouts was a minor one, but this hasn't silenced the critics, some of whom have bravely called for President Truman's impeachment, despite the fact that most of these decisions were made even before he became president in April.

But some have taken the criticism further, and say that failure to get Hitler means a failed war itself. "Sure, it's nice to have released all those people from the concentration camps, but we were told we were going to war against Hitler, even though he'd done nothing to us," argued one concerned anti-war Senator. "Now they say that we have 'Victory in Europe,' but it seems to me that if they can't produce the man we supposedly went to war against, it's a pretty hollow victory. Without this man that they told us was such a great threat to America, how can even they claim that this war was justified?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Forward it to Snopes
On second thought, they may report it as true given their recent track record...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. I don't think we need snopes on this one.
It's easy enough to do a google and read about the "German Werewolves". They were active at the end of the war but once the Germans surrendered they were for the most part not active.

Bottom line post war Germany was not comperable to modern day Iraq.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Snopes already has it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Thank you for the link.
I did a search on Snopes today but didn't find it. Must've used the wrong keywords.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Not a problem
anything for a fellow DUer doing some educatin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Where is the link to the source?
I mean the news outlet that originally published it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I don't have a web link n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
protect freedom impeach bush now Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. send them this - Slate: Condi's phony history
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 08:34 PM by protect freedom impe
this is just another prime example of how blatant the Bush administration
lies, and lies so often that the US news media never questions their repeated
lies - like WW2 history that never ever happened, yet the US news media
repeats the Bush administrations lies as if it were fact

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087768/

Condi's Phony History
Sorry, Dr. Rice, postwar Germany was nothing like Iraq.
By Daniel Benjamin
Posted Friday, August 29, 2003, at 4:04 PM PT



Rice-a-phony history?

As American post-conflict combat deaths in Iraq overtook the wartime number, the administration counseled patience. "The war on terror is a test of our strength. It is a test of our perseverance, our patience, and our will," President Bush told an American Legion convention.

National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice embellished the message with what former White House speechwriters immediately recognize as a greatest-generation pander. "There is an understandable tendency to look back on America's experience in postwar Germany and see only the successes," she told the Veterans of Foreign Wars in San Antonio, Texas, on Aug. 25. "But as some of you here today surely remember, the road we traveled was very difficult. 1945 through 1947 was an especially challenging period. Germany was not immediately stable or prosperous. SS officers—called 'werewolves'—engaged in sabotage and attacked both coalition forces and those locals cooperating with them—much like today's Baathist and Fedayeen remnants."

Speaking to the same group on the same day, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld noted,

skip .....Well, no, it doesn't. The Rice-Rumsfeld depiction of the Allied occupation of Germany is a farrago of fiction and a few meager facts.

Werwolf tales have been a favorite of schlock novels, but the reality bore no resemblance to Iraq today. As Antony Beevor observes in The Fall of Berlin 1945, the Nazis began creating Werwolf as a resistance organization in September 1944. "In theory, the training programmes covered sabotage using tins of Heinz oxtail soup packed with plastic explosive and detonated with captured British time pencils," Beevor writes. "… Werwolf recruits were taught to kill sentries with a slip-knotted garrotte about a metre long or a Walther pistol with silencer. …"

In practice, Werwolf amounted to next to nothing. The mayor of Aachen was assassinated on March 25, 1945, on Himmler's orders. This was not a nice thing to do, but it happened before the May 7 Nazi surrender at Reims. It's hardly surprising that Berlin sought to undermine the American occupation before the war was over. And as the U.S. Army's official history, The U.S. Army in the Occupation of Germany 1944-1946, points out, the killing was "probably the Werwolf's most sensational achievement."

Indeed, the organization merits but two passing mentions in Occupation of Germany, which dwells far more on how docile the Germans were once the Americans rolled in—and fraternization between former enemies was a bigger problem for the military than confrontation. Although Gen. Eisenhower had been worrying about guerrilla warfare as early as August 1944, little materialized. There was no major campaign of sabotage. There was no destruction of water mains or energy plants worth noting. In fact, the far greater problem for the occupying forces was the misbehavior of desperate displaced persons, who accounted for much of the crime in the American zone.

The Army history records that while there were the occasional anti-occupation leaflets and graffiti, the GIs had reason to feel safe. When an officer in Hesse was asked to investigate rumors that troops were being attacked and castrated, he reported back that there had not been a single attack against an American soldier in four months of occupation. As the distinguished German historian Golo Mann summed it up in The History of Germany Since 1789, "The readiness to work with the victors, to carry out their orders, to accept their advice and their help was genuine; of the resistance which the Allies had expected in the way of 'werewolf' units and nocturnal guerrilla activities, there was no sign. …"

Werwolf itself was filled not so much by fearsome SS officers but teenagers too young for the front. Beevor writes:

..............skip.......

It's hard to understand exactly what Rumsfeld was saying, but if he meant that the Nazi resisters killed Americans after the surrender, this would be news. According to America's Role in Nation-Building: From Germany to Iraq, a new study by former Ambassador James Dobbins, who had a lead role in the Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, and Kosovo reconstruction efforts, and a team of RAND Corporation researchers, the total number of post-conflict American combat casualties in Germany—and Japan, Haiti, and the two Balkan cases—was zero.

So, how did this fanciful version of the American experience in postwar Germany get into the remarks of a Princeton graduate and former trustee of Stanford's Hoover Institute (Rumsfeld) and the former provost of Stanford and co-author of an acclaimed book on German unification (Rice)? Perhaps the British have some intelligence on the matter that still has not been made public. Of course, as the president himself has noted, there is a lot of revisionist history going around.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087768/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. thank you
I was going to look for that.

There will be some hard-core war supporters who will buy the WWII analogy, just because they want to, there's nothing really to be done about that. A lot more people see right through it, because Bush is obviously no FDR, despite David Broder's saying he is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Its on snopes, and its a pathetic lie
Its amazing how the right has no problem with lying their fucking asses off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. You're right, here's the direct link to the debunking
http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/quagmire.asp

The Repukes have no shame. They impeach a p
In fact, I would go so far as to say * would tell a lie even if the truth would be more politically expedient because he has no idea how to tell the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Thanks for posting that
I saw this on snopes a few weeks ago.

I like to check their site to see what might be making the rounds.

The right is also sending around an email accusing Martin Luther King, Jr of being a fraud and a sex offender, among other things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. George W. Bush never casually tells the truth about anything.
Ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Tell your hillbilly friend
WWII in Europe was over before the US entered the war.

The US just did mop-up

In fact the US sold goods to Germany while the rest of the world was fighting nazism

No,we haven't forgotten.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's bogus.
Right wing satire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. they're right, the post-war nazis DID commit sabotage, etc.
it's just that they did it in argentina, and/or working for the oss/cia. under threat of execution or worse, they pretty much all either committed suicide or fled the country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TennesseeWalker Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hey! I'M a hillbilly with a computer!
Be afraid.....be VERY afraid....most of the folks here in the hills are afraid of me, because, and I'm qouting Hank Hill here...."that boy ain't right"!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. We're probably kin
I'm related to half the trailer park white trash in the Ozarks. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. aren't there too many WWII vets alive who can refute this?
my uncle was in Germany at the end of the war and he doesn't remember this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. My husband, who lived in Ireland during WWII as a teenager
just verified that the werewolves were never active. He's pretty good at remembering the war and a lot of the details because it was a hobby of his after the war to study it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
protect freedom impeach bush now Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. not even One death of US occupation forces in Germany
READ THIS

Condi's Phony History -
http://slate.msn.com/id/2087768/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. Also, there were no killings of U.S. soldiers in
occupied Japan, either.

Of course, the U.S. went into Japan after having consulted experts about Japanese culture, trained a lot of people in the language (and they did not weed out the gay interpreters, some of whom later became noted scholars in Japanese studies), and had a clear idea of what they were going to do.

The people who actually administered the occupation were mostly New Dealers excited about the prospect of helping the Japanese people recover from the war and eager to bring democracy to them--not contractors mostly interested in exploiting the country's natural resources. (Well, Japan doesn't have a lot of natural resources, which was probably lucky for them.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. It was my understanding that Himmler formed the
werewolves when he knew Germany was going to fall to the allies, so that they would act as a guerilla force against the occupation. Nothing actually was ever done by the werewolves as far as I have been able to discover, but maybe some of the historians on the site have better documentation than I do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. In an unguarded moment..
this weekend, I ran across Ms. Coulter on some show -(Scarborough perhaps) - and she posited this nonsensical tale in an effort to say that this is exactly what our military is facing in Iraq. Sadly, the fellow that was there to counter-balance her was insufficiently informed and failed to rip her on it. But then, what good does that do anyhow? Her response to anything she didn't like was "That's a lie" or "That's not true". She's such a bogus broad that she's hardly worth the effort. I've got earwigs in my garden that are smarter than she is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dubyawatchers Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. Pure Bogus Repug
There is a report available from the Rand corporation

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1753/
America's Role in Nation-Building: From Germany to Iraq
From Chapter 9

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Thank you for this document
I had the misfortune of watching a well-known, uh, spinster who, using the usual Big Lie strategy, claimed that the post "mission accomplished" period in Germany was just as bloody. A lie, as usual, and in my view credibly challenged by the sane panelist, but having the real numbers is great.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. Here is an interesting editorial on the matter:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC