A lot of people on the left live in as simplistic a world as Bush does

[accipiter]

Everything is PNAC this, PNAC that. All the problems of the world have been grafted onto an image of Bush upon which you direct daily three minute hates.

Any Dem who isn't on your side all the time is an automatic traitor. Man, this shit is getting old.

Anyone who doesn't fall into a certain far left view of things is buying into the 'propaganda' or 'the fear'. All the while you spread you own propanda from some very questionable websites. Sometimes stuff from solid left wing news sites is derided, i.e. The Nation. I've seen it done here on DU: 'The Nation is a propaganda rag, here believe what I read on this backwater website.'

Fuckin' A.

[sniffa]

1. i'm sure many here wiLL be receptive

to your POV.

[HughBeaumont]

2. Didn't read any rules, sorry.

Edited to not piss anyone off.

[da_chimperor]

4. Calling people out is against DU rules

do an edit and change the heading. The mods will make the judgement.

[okieinpain]

34. what do you mean call people out.

[sniffa]

6. hey now

you need to shoot under the radar if you're gonna break the ruLes.

[accipiter]

9. nope just someone tired of the bullshit of some of you

Tired of the bitterness and hate directed at anyone who dares to fall out of line. Some of you are as bad as freepers.

This whole idea that the 'left' is more open minded is pure bunk. Much of the left is about as open minded as the right.

[HughBeaumont]

16. How the hell are we as bad as freepers?

The day I support sending my friend and my wife's cousin to somewhat certain death because big oil interests say so, all under the idiotic guise of "freedumb fightin'" and "protection", THEN we can talk. Don't even get me started about the almost 24-7 "victimization by the lib'rul scourge" these anuses parade around on their corporate-controlled MSM. Until that happens, please shut the fuck up.

[sweetheart]

17. Dude, for a 2 day registered DU'er... this is rich

You have been spreading paranoia and ungrounded hogwash without any
evidence except television programs you watch.... and then you think
you've got some corner on objectivity.

Then you start off with broad brush comments like "This whole idea that the 'left' is more open minded is pure bunk." I look forward to some
evidence from yourself to substantiate your views... but it seems that
you're here on a propaganda hit, to instill some fear in to us at DU,
to push your television shows and your ungrounded paranoia about the
global network of terrorists that's in every city waiting to blow up
your local starbucks.

:-)

Evidence man... truth... its all vapour what you're selling... and
then you spread a load of fertilizer on top of that with these
broad brush rhetorical conclusions about the left and 50,000 writers
on DU. My oh my, what hubris for a new poster.

[Individualist]

49. rich and transparent n/t

[devilgrrl]

33. Oh yeah? And what positive contribution have you made?

Project much?

What a whiney, politically correct bore you are! :boring:

[deutsey]

48. Ideological people of any stripe are often very intolerant

and difficult to get along with unless you share their stripe.

However, it has not been my experience here on DU (and I've been here since 2001) that most DU'ers are ideologues. Strong opinions abound, yes, some with which I don't agree, but it's a discussion board, after all.

While I know there are some leftwing ideologues here (I'm on the left myself, but don't see myself as ideological or a purist), I think factionalism has been a bigger problem here than anything else.

You may not have been here during the primaries, but it was brutal, with each faction at the other's throat about something.

[merh]

50. Are you playing one of those silly games with us, trying to make us

feel guilty for not being liberal enough? Are you, huh?

Guess what, we have played nice and we have respected everyone's right to have a different opinions, and we have tried to support our "leaders" despite their failings, but it is time to call "enough" on that side of our "liberal" ways.

Our nation is being destroyed at the hands of some pretty scarey people who have no concern for anyone but themselves. We can have liberal points of view and still demand that our leaders protect our nation and our democracy.

If we bother you, go find another forum!

[KissMeKate]

52. so open minded our brains fall out?

do you want us to be that openminded?

[arcane1]

58. again, examples please

where is this bitterness and hate of which you speak, besides in your very own post?

[da_chimperor]

10. I'm not worried about you pissing people off

I'd just like to help you avoid getting a deleted post. :D

[HughBeaumont]

20. Thanks for looking out, anyway.

I seriously didn't know about that rule . . . :evilgrin:

[da_chimperor]

23. No prob, it happens

:)

[DrWeird]

3. This is the most Islamophobic country in the world.

There's bigoted propaganda everywhere you look. Assuming you're not a sucker and know how to recognize it.

[progressiveBadger]

11. So true!

My wife was telling me about this experience she had at work yesterday. I guess they have a newsletter and in it there was an interview of one of the high ups in her company. They asked general questions such as what CDs you have in your car, etc. One of the questions was "if you could sit down and talk to anyone, who would it be?" He said it would be this Muslim leader who was evidently a very respected person throughout the world... my wife couldn't recall the name and my Islam history leaves much to be desired. Anyway, these right-wing friends of ours came up to her and said, "What, is he an Islam fantatic or something?" What a ridiculous thing to say. My wife was PISSED.

[robcon]

24. Ever heard of India, DrWeird?

I think the hatred spewing from the leading Hindu party in India would belie your claim that the U.S. is the most anti-Islamic country.

[DrWeird]

27. Sure, if you ignore the hatred spewing from the leading Republican party

in the United States.

[Clark2008]

5. Have you actually READ the PNAC initiative?

It's about 80 pages long, so it takes awhile.

That said, I don't blame everything on it, but I certainly blame this administration's rush into war with Iraq on it. I also feel the great apathy prior to 9/11 was either utter stupidity or LIHOP - and are both a flavor of the PNAC.

However, Bush's social agenda isn't to be blamed on these foreign policy know-nothings. That's all the so-called "Christian" Right's doing.

[prayin4rain]

12. I agree.

When you read the agenda it is all spelled out. What they intended to do and then did. What they are intending to do and are now working towards. It is sort of like blaming the holocaust on Mein Kampf. Although I do agree even as horrible as what is going on now is, it still has not even approached holocaust horrors. But, you know the analogy works in the other sense.

[txaslftist]

7. Hmmmm. Very thoughtful post.

LOL.

[Me.]

8. Oh Stop Already!

When the "left" declare war on and destroy a country that didn't attack us based on lies of mass destruction, and when the "left" decides to conquer the world for democracy you'll have ample reason to complain.

[bemildred]

13. Well, that's it, I'm convinced. We all need to wise up.

Thanks for setting us straight.

[Avalux]

14. Seems you operate the same way

by using the words "everything" "all" "any", etc. to get your point (whatever it is) across; a gross generalization that's difficult to take seriously.

[IrateCitizen]

15. Turn those three fingers back at yourself, newcomer...

"Anyone who doesn't see Islamic fundamentalism as the greatest threat to civilization since the Black Plague is a fool! I saw it on Frontline last night. It's real, and it's going to kill us all!"

:eyes:

Please.

[accipiter]

18. Did I say that?

Of course not. But your response is typical. So hilariously typical.

[IrateCitizen]

How in the hell do you know what's typical at this site?

You've been a member for how long now? One day?

I've nothing against newbies, but I do have problems with those who come in and start telling us all how we're wrong, and what we need to do, and so on and so forth ad nauseum.

Oh, we're all so fortunate to have someone like you come in here and tell a bunch of people you don't even know what all our problems are. We should just drop to our knees and raise our hands to the sky and give thanks that you have been sent down to save us.

Why don't you try LISTENING for a little while before you start espousing grand platitudes. Who knows, you might just LEARN something in the process. And when you do raise issues of debate, perhaps you'll be able to express your point in a manner that is grounded in REASON and FACT, as opposed to stating your points in terms of near-hysteria.

[sweetheart]

26. ROFLMAO.. ha!!!!

He asked for it!! :-) Beautifully put! ... ditto!

[txaslftist]

51. Hey, unfair...

We all know that only the prez can claim to have been dropped down from above to save us all. Haven't you read "Left Behind"?

[Karenina]

35. Must. Conserve. Bandwidth.

You were given a lot of information to peruse. Obviously, your perception of Ay-rab boogeymen inhibits your ability to do so or grok it.

C'est la vie! Tschüs! PLUNK YOUR MAGIC TWANGER, FROGGIE!

[sweetheart]

21. I think its an invasion of the new moral superiors

here to teach us that bush might be rational after all.... and we should
stick to the center and hang with the vichy crowd. I love the use of
the divine jesuitical right of moral absoluteness to judge us all.

Oh yea... and we're all freepers for disagreeing... at least this chap's
learned his straussian formula... we can at least say that.

[Democrats_win]

19. bushworld was simplistic, now its rather complicated

Jest look at the reasons we invaded Iraq. Very complex. You need a PhD and a shovel to figure it out.

[da_chimperor]

22. Simplistic? Hardly.

PNAC is not the root of evil in the world, rather a collection of powerful people with very fucked-up ideas for America and the world. Read more about them, and you'll see what I mean. I doubt most people here blame the problems of the world solely on bu$h. I don't, but I do blame him for many things. I also blame him for wasting so much money on Iraq that could have gone to much better use, like paying off our deficit or helping stamp out poverty throughout the world, and for causing so much death and destruction. Generalizations are a very ineffective way of making your point, not to mention being logically flawed. You may want to re-think your argument.

[bowens43]

25. So you drank the kool-aid?

Too bad.

[el_gato]

28. Yet you are the one spouting simplistic assumptions and generalities

i.e. your full of it

[UdoKier]

29. Nation is not especially leftwing. American Prospect is liberal.

The *New Republic* is almost as center-right as Joe Lieberman.

(Sorry, I mixed up the Nation and New Republic. I only subscribe to American Prospect).

AMERICA is to the far right of almost every advanced country in the world. Not all of us consider what passes for "the center" in this country, or at least on our media, to be truly centrist or moderate at all. It is right-wing.


If DU is too far left for your tastes, there are plenty other places you can go. Try democrats.org for example.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[IrateCitizen]

30. The Nation is as center-right as Joe Lieberman???

Sorry, bud -- but I think you're way, way off on this one. If you had said The New Republic, I'd have believed you. But The Nation? They've been staunchly anti-war, anti-DLC, anti-market fundamentalism for the past several years -- at least as long as I've had a subscription.

[UdoKier]

31. You're right. I got the two mixed up. Apologies.

nt.

[rman]

38. so The Nation is in fact rather left wing?

(just for the record)

I've heard The Nation is one of very few actual national periodicals, with more subscribers then any of the big local papers (such as NYT etc).
A very popular left-wing rag in the USA, imagine that.

[IrateCitizen]

39. The Nation is the best-selling political weekly in the US

It used to be primarily a magazine of the EXTREME left, but has jumped in membership ever since Katrina vanden Heuvel :loveya: took over as editor.

I believe it has somewhere around 2x as many subscribers as TNR, and about 1.5x as many as National Review.

[UdoKier]

40. I would say it's mainstream liberal.

The Prospect is a bit more liberal, with Mother Jones being a bit more scattershot and hippy-dippy in approach - geared more to greens, etc.

[Strawman]

54. The Nation is to the left of The American Prospect

I subscribe to both and The American Prospect seems more reflective of elite/insider liberal Democratic opinion where The Nation seems to speak to the leftmost flank of the Democratic party and is more inclined to flirt with Greens and Socialists and folks a bit further to the left. You won't find someone like Alexander Cockburn writing in The American Prospect (at least from what I've seen). I don't subscribe to The New Republic, but to me it has always seemed more center-left, occasionally crossing over to the center-right.

[UdoKier]

61. I'll have to look into it more then. Sounds interesting.

But I like The Prospect very much and have long been an admirer of Robert Reich.

[K-W]

47. Liberal isnt left wing.

Liberal is centrist. Bush disguises his platform as liberal for a reason.

[rman]

62. I've never heard * say he's liberal.

I'd be curious about any sources for his "disguising his platform as liberal".

Also many RW radio pundits refer to those opposed to things like the war or privatization of social security as "liberals", which would be pretty close to "communists" if you'd have to believe the pundits. The moderates/centrists otoh generally do not oppose * all that much, and they aren't getting half as much flack from the RW as "liberals" do.

For all i know the popular definition of "liberal" is rather broad, including both centrist liberals and left-wing liberals, which would be pretty much equivalent to "democrat". Hence the apparent need for the distinction between centrist and non-centrist.

To make it more interesting still, many liberals (dems) are proclaiming "we're progressives now".

Oh, all these labels. I think we should stick to issues.

[Bridget Burke]

32. How can it "get old" when you've only been here two days?

Comments like yours are what gets old.

Believe me, your opinions are nothing we haven't seen before. We'll still be seeing them long after you're gone.

[Ms. Clio]

36. That's not the shit that's getting old n/t

[LeftHander]

37. disinfo....It's the WAR stupid...

Trying to shift focus away from the goal..

Typical GOP tactic.

The fact is that this kind of crap post detracts from real discussion about the lies used by the neo-fascists to start a WAR...

And how does the democratic party shift away from the path to the right it is on and get back to core values of progressive social action.

[bobbyboucher]

41. accipter knows everything, damn, wish I'd known sooner.

You are so smart accipter, that I just want to curl up next to you and worship your warmth and never-ending knowlege. Please, where are you so that we may come and worship.

Only 100 posts and already he has summized that all of DU is nuts and should listen stricty to his edicts.

Praise be accipter. You are my hero. Thank you for just being you.

Skinner, shut down the DU, accipter has it all figured out.

Please, oh great and wonderful accipter, lead us.

[UdoKier]

42. Funny, it just hit me.

If I were to post this message over at FR, they would delete it and ban me instantly.


"A lot of people on the right live in as simplistic a world as Michael Moore does"
Posted by Udokier

Everything is terrorist this, liberal that. All the problems of the world have been grafted onto an image of the stereotypical liberal upon which you direct daily three minute hates.

Any Conservative who isn't on your side all the time is an automatic traitor. Man, this shit is getting old.

Anyone who doesn't fall into a certain far right view of things is buying into the 'propaganda' or 'the fear'. All the while you spread you own propaganda from some very questionable websites. Sometimes stuff from solid conservative news sites is derided, i.e. CNN. I've seen it done here on FR: 'CNN is the Clinton News Network for liberals, here believe what I read on this backwater website.'

Fuckin' A.

And yet your thread is tolerated, and even engaged constructively.

And we're a bunch of far out loons?

Okayfinewhatever.

[bobbyboucher]

45. He's Bill Dance,

if you know what I mean.

[txaslftist]

53. Try it for fun!

report back to us on how it goes!

[Q]

43. Well...I'm definitely not on YOUR side...

...even if you presume to be a Dem.

You offer no specifics...just another silly rant against those with which you disagree.

I wonder if you've ever even read the PNAC documents? If you did and haven't realized what they mean to present day America...then you'll feel much more comfortable with your head in the sand.

And really...who in the hell are YOU to come here and lecture us? Especially without giving ONE example of what you call 'hate'.

For all we know you're just one more Bush apologist using the 'left wing' as the usual scapegoat to distract from the most corrupt government this nation has ever seen.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

44. and many more dont...

i guess you pick up the info you are looking for...you look for craziness amongst 60,000 and you will find it...and sanity while it is in the majority you ignore..

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stirk]

55. You're really generalizing.

You're shoving everything you've seen here into one big pile and calling it "the left".

People talk about PNAC because it's a such a potent example of the problem. It's tied into so many aspects of the threat that it's become a short hand for neoconservatives, corporate imperialism, the World Bank, media consolidation and corruption, the whole thing.

It's bigger than Bush, everyone here knows that. It's bigger than PNAC, or fundamentalism, or Fox News, or any of the other little symptoms you care to list. But if you can seriously compare today's left to the far-right, then you're just out of touch. We've actually got a reason to be angry.

[arcane1]

56. do you have any examples, or are you being simplistic too?

60,000 registered users, and you put us all in the same basket? Why?

a nice generalized, but meaningless post. Much like your Hillary '08 cheerleading

:eyes:

[Skidmore]

57. You're still here?

Wow! talk about cruising on the edge.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taxloss]

60. This is a very unfair and misinformed attack.

What, no tombstone?!