My letter to Schumer and Hillary

[Renew Deal]

You voted for Condi Rice. Why did you do that? I see that as a vote for torture and lies. I am disgusted by it and the fact that I voted for you. How do you represent me, Democrats, NY and the world? You have had some good moments in your career. This is not one of them.

Addition for Hillary:
Don't bother running for President. If I want to vote for Republican values, I'll vote for them directly.



Does it mean that they support lies and torture? I'm not sure if it means anything else. They could have safely voted against her.

[Babel_17]

1. I live in NY

and I too am bewildered.

With Schumer it is especially puzzling. He has afaik no aspirations for the presidency or vice presidency and he has just been re-elected by what was afaik the biggest landslide in US history.

The only thing I can think of is that it was the democratic party policy to make the vote one of a strictly measured protest and that is why Schumer, and possibly Hillary, voted the way they did.

Hmmm, following that line of thought...... if Schumer voted against Rice it would have put a huge spotlight on Hillary ............ if Hillary voted against Rice, it was perhaps thought, the issue risked being sidetracked ............ Hillary in 2008 would become the focus along with charges of opportunism.

So on second thought I will reserve judgment although I remain decidedly unthrilled by their votes.

[makhno]

7. Chuck doesn't rock the boat

In Chuck's mind, what's good for Chuck, is good for the country. And what's good for Chuck today is not to alienate himself from his republican friends in Washington and his socially liberal but fundamentally reactionary bourgeois base here in NY.

Just as a few short weeks ago, Chuck enthusiatically supported Bernie Kerik's nomination as head of DHS.

In the final analysis, Chuck is a shameless scumbag and it saddens me profoundly to have him represent my state for another six years at least.

[autorank]

2. You're right about "a vote for torture and lies."

:wtf: Voting for Rice and pretending it's not a vote for the death she's caused is like supporting Dr. Jack Kevorkian and pretending all his patients survive. I am so sick of the closed fraternity atmosphere of our "ruling class." This logic is an extended distortion of the same type of class loyalty excuse British intelligence agents used for not turning in Kim Philby. We really need a hard edged populism and some serious, forceful, relentless advocates. Clinton and Schumer need to take your helpful hint and get on board.

[Babel_17]

3. Additionally

Let's hope they are saving their "face time" for voting against Gonzales.

[Erika]

4. Agree Completely

If these two had voted against Condi, she would have the most votes against her for SOS since 1835. They had a chance to take a stand, and they missed it.

[Me.]

5. Totally There With You

I've also sent them letters and the one to Hillary also questioned her running in '08. I simply do not get this "I have doubts about you but I'll vote for you anyway" attitude that I heard from dems. I also questioned why she didn't stand with Boxer.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

8. One can only hope that some of these things can happen to you.

But they probably won't because your chickenhawk ass will sit in front of the computer, too scared to go to the combat you enjoy so much.

[OneBlueSky]

9. I agree completely . . .

I voted for both of them, and their votes in the Senate are really starting to infuriate me . . . the Patriot Act, the Iraq war authorization, the recent budget bill, the Rice nomination, etc. are all far right Republican votes that in no way represent me . . . like you, if I want Republican policies, I'll vote for Republicans directly . . . if this keeps up, my next votes for Senator will be for the Green candidate(s) . . .

[KharmaTrain]

10. It's Picking Your Fights

The endgame going on is called "watch the Rehnquist". Any day we'll learn how terminal his illness is or get the abrupt announcement that he's either resigned or died. His days are few and the game inside the beltway is about to start. Condi isn't worth the effort that is surely gonna be needed when Bunnypants submits his first of what could be several Supreme Court nominees...that's gonna be the big game and it's going to happen soon.

I suspect Schumer, Hillary and many other Democrats who voted in favor of Condi did so with a look at the bigger battles ahead. Tossing Cabinet nominees is a bitch, since one day a Democrat will be elected and the GOOP surely will remember the grief they got and will gladly give it back in spades. While Condi IS responsible, along with others, for war crimes and lying to the American public, when the question comes to "is she qualified"...the bar is far lower and just based on her academic and government experience, she barely makes the grade. Again, I'm not defending anyone who voted for her, I surely wouldn't, just attempting to rationalize why some of the Democrats voted the way they did.

I envision Rice as being a highly ineffective SOS...due to her close coat-tails to this hated regime and lack of any real diplomatic experience. If she brings that "in your face" attitude this regime likes to push people around with on the international stage, she'll get crushed.

Forget about SSI or Tax Cuts...it's all gonna be clouded once the Supreme Court game starts rolling. Unfortunately, that's what bothers me, since this regime is set on ramming all this legislation through and with so many big fights ahead, one has to pace themselves and not get caught up in every little fight that goes along...that's what plays right into the GOOP propaganda machine's game of labeling Democrats and "libruls" as obstructionists.

[Sleepless In NY]

11. Clinton, Schumer, Rice, Richard Clarke, August PDB & NY

I don't know how any self respecting democrat from NY could vote for Rice, after she consistently ignored Richard Clarke's warnings, Warnings from other countries, & an August PDB "Bin Laden Determined To Attack In The United States". My God, look what it has cost us.

Schumer & Clinton are suppose to be representatives of this state, yet have we ever seen them do battle with bush, ever? No.

Mind you, bush is not well liked in this state and still these 2 never speak up. Remember Bush ordering the EPA to tell us the air & water was safe in NY after 9/11, when they knew it wasn't? What did these 2 do about that? Nothing.

I can go on and on about what's gone on here since 9/11 and the deafening silence from the both of them about it.

Had Schumer or Clinton voted against Rice, it would have cost them nothing. It would have been a safe vote for both of them. There is no excuse, none, for what they have done. It's unforgivable.

[Me.]

14. Excellent Posts

In this state where ***h is so unpopular they have very little to lose for standing up to him. But even if they did have something to lose, so what? They should still be standing up to him. God knows we in this state and the country as a whole have lost, so much, as a result of him being president. I'm sick to death of these senators wanting to stay in office and protecting their backs by playing nice with ***H. Now if they're voting that way because that is what they really believe then we for sure have the wrong senators and they should plan moves to red states.

[Sleepless In NY]

12. KharmaTrain "It's Picking Your Fights"? Baloney

Do you have any idea how idiotic democrats who voted for Rice look? How they make the rest of look and feel? Talk about flip flopping, how can someone like Joe Biden talk about all of Rice's failures, then turn around & vote for her? Or Feinstein & Lieberman praising her. How does that look to potential voters out there? 1. That democrats donot back what they say. 2. That bush's policies are right and democrats agree with them, therefore why bother to vote for a party that seems to be talking out of both sides of their mouth.

There is no strategy in this party what so ever, none. Republicans crying about us playing the Race Card, by refusing to vote for Condi, would have been put to rest by a single vote from Obama. Now bush can take his "token" and use her to gather even more votes from blacks.

She deserved to be fired, period. They only thing they have shown is that the wont fight, period. And this is not the first time, it's becoming a habit with them, and it certainly wont be the last.

THe GOP might "remember" if a democrat is elected next time? That's funny, Democrats don't seem to remember the 8 years of hell the GOP gave Clinton.

I'm tired of apologizing for these spineless democrats, us keeping quiet about it, is like watching someone ready to jump off a cliff and not stopping them. We have lost the Presidency, the House & the Senate. What they have been doing isn't working. They better wake up & realize every fight is worth it, because at this point in time they have nothing to lose.

[KharmaTrain]

13. So What Would Delaying Rice's Nomination Have Accomplished?

People here make it sound like the Democrats had the votes to stop her nomination. All Democrats got were 9 hours to speak their peace...almost totally ignored by the media and portrayed as more "Democrat wining" and sour grapes. Rarely did I hear a commentator try to frame this debate about Rice's lying or the overall illegality of this invasion.

I was suprised to hear Senator Dayton...who spoke for many of us...but again, those are now voices in the wilderness as the GOOP hubris is so strong and deep right now, we're a party that reacts, doesn't act. That's what has to change...and that won't happen inside the beltway but in the states and counties and communities...places in many areas where there's virtually ZERO Democratic party presence or support. If you want to start looking at what's causing some major problems, start looking there.

And yes, this affects the votes of Democrats...especially those in "purple" or "red" states as they see how the GOOP will distort and lie about a record and use their money and media muscle to turn those lies into "fact". If I'm a Ben Nelson, I'd tread real lightly since it's sure that any dissent on this issue can be easily turned as being "weak on defense" or "obstructionist"...just look at the job they did on Daschele and other Democrats last year. The GOOP knows when they frame Democrats as weak, they win.

There weren't enough cross-over votes to even make this close. Why alienate those people who will be needed later. Again, there's going to be Supreme Court, SSI and Income Tax battles...issues that will require a lot of political energy and focus and reaching across to grab a moderate GOOPie where we can. Not much more that can be done until Democrats start winning local elections and takes back the House.

I keep saying our greatest problem is not the White House as much as it's been the House. This is where the endless probes during the Clinton administration took place and where all the cover-up for this regime goes on.

Unfortunately, instead of looking at the local party structures, many here are ready to jump all over any and all that aren't this "ideal liberal" or progressive or whathaveyou. Sorry, when you have to go to voters in Missouri or Oregon or even Texas, you can't take the same stances as someone going after votes in New York or Massetchusetts. Until Democrats realize until we win seats and elections all our posturing means little...and the longer we put litmus tests on our own members and candidates, no matter who, we keep them on a greater defensive and make them and this party even weaker.

Yes, we better fight, but first let's realize what's worth fighting about and what's counterproductive in political capital, money and time.

[jdj]

15. I think that some play straight, some play strategy.

Hilary is becoming as good a strategist as Bill.

They want Condi to stay, because she's a nightmare, a trainwreck, and because they know that she is horrible P.R. for the right.

The fact that they would re-appoint her after 9/11 can only mean bad things for them and for the U.S. in the long run.