IRAQ: The One Thing EVERYONE Keeps Overlooking

[Yavin4]

There is no one to turn the country over to with there being violence, bloodshed, and a civil war. There are groups there that hate each other and hate us even more. There is no way to install Jeffersonian Democracy on a nation where the people have more fidelity to religious, ethnic, and cultural ties than they do to this idea of a "democracy".

No matter how they spin things, Iraq cannot be transformed into a peaceful, democratic nation.

[Avalux]

1. Nope

and some of us knew that from the beginning. It's never gonna happen, just like the flower throwing never happened.

[unblock]

2. we haven't overlooked that at all

no one with any brains ever bought the laughable idea that democracy could be imposed by a conquering imperialist hegemony that the iraqis already viewed as satanic even before we destroyed their country and killed thousands.

dictatorship can be imposed, but democracy must come from within.

[Eloriel]

13. Right. We talked about it quite a bit pre-war, pre-resolution in fact

Scott Ritter talked about it too. Lots of columns about it.

Nope, not overlooked here.

Made me actually think there are times and places where a dictatorship isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world. I'm sure there are a number of Iraqis who are thinking quite the same thing by this time. "If this is your justice, spare me your mercy."If this is your liberation, spare me your democracy.

Eloriel

[BeFree]

3. Is the US a peaceful democracy?

You may be right... we cannot transform Iraq into a democracy. But we can say...here is a plan and what you do with it is up to you. We took out Saddama Osama, and now we offer you a chance to be a democracy. See ya later. Do with this democracy thing as you please. If you need some help, call us.

Boom, bang, boom... were outta there. It's an exit strategy, at the least. Better than anything the bushco can come up with. Right?

Somehow, someway, we've got to end our invasion. Putting democracy on the table is our out. Bring the troops home!

BeFree

[SharonAnn]

8. Except that Saddam is still around, somewhere.

And if we leave, all bets are off!

[lumpy]

18. There are lots of 'little Saddams' around, also,

just as there are lots of 'little Bin Ladens' all created by Bush & Co.

[Jacobin]

4. Which is why we were against the invasion

We'll be lucky if this doesn't spread to create further havoc in the region.

[carpetbagger]

5. It can be done with sacrifice, good will, and good leadership.

Unfortunately, the second part of that is missing for now, and the cost wasn't looked at until the goods were shipped.

But federalist republican-democracy is a real possibility in Iraq, by a model that would hold local elections in short order, draft constitution that would provide for a mechanism for transition to permanent government while at the same time establishing as permanent a set of rights. If we keep our noses clean, avoiding lust for riches and cowboy displays, we'll build up good will. It's a small step for those local governments to appoint regional representatives to a congress, which can then figure out the fineries of establishing a federal government.

We broke it, we bought it. Might as well make something pretty out of it.

And while we're at it, someone get the little boy out of the china store before he breaks something else.

[maggrwaggr]

17. I think you're looking at Iraq through red-white-and-blue glasses

I think, with all due respect, that your notion is naive.

I don't think Iraq is one bit interested in being anything like us.

[leftofthedial]

6. It is not really a single nation

it's an artifical construct of the British.

Perhaps the region needs to be "balkanized."

[Yavin4]

7. Thank You!!

We have doomed the Iraqis to years of violence and bloodshed for generations.

[Cocoa]

9. they have no model to emulate

nothing like this has ever been tried before. Why do we think it can work, because Tom Friedman is optimistic about it?

[PurityOfEssence]

10. World War 1 and the Versailles Treaty: the gifts that go on giving...

As Robert Lansing (U.S. Secretary of State) said in his diary in 1920, "I fear that all we have done is to sow the seeds for a future European War".

Yep.

Except that's not where it stopped. Yugoslavia was another made up country created by people who didn't know anything about it with that treaty, and that didn't really blow until the 1990s. At least the falsely combined Czechs and Slovaks had the civility to part ways amicably.

[shance]

11. The main places where our presence should not be is conveniently located

by the oil wells.

Halliburton and Brechtel should be told to leave, and then both the US and UN Peacekeeping forces can take over from there.

[PaDUer]

12. That's right..

and tonite, the army extended the reservists Iraq tours to one yr..
http://www.msnbc.com/news/963676.asp?0na=x2202440-
How many more suicides will we see, how many guys are not coming home ever, but in boxes!

[K-W]

14. The Best thing We can do

is to let the UN take over, the best hope is with a more neutral and international prescence.

[frank frankly]

15. they never wanted democracy in Iraq

They wanted to bomb it and rob it. And they did and they are.

But now BushCo has to go back to the UN and ask for help, which will infringe greatly on Halliburton's control and profit. BushCo may be forced to assist in the creation of a free election--which is the last thing they wanted. Any elected leader would kick BushCo out!

I don't know how the Iraqi people will respond to elections. I imagine if we quit killing and robbing them while simultaneously scolding them for their "untidy" freedom, that they would rally around a true election. This occupation is an abomination. I just hope some level of irony will hit the PNAC dillbags right between the eyes. Unintended consequences...

of course i am avoiding the fact we don't have true elections here

[SilasSoule]

16. I wish I could give credit to the very astute DU'er who predicted

that after invasion and occupation, IRAQ would become an "internally divisive basket case". That is exactly what is happening now.