Our Southern Baptists are at it again...legislating morality.

[madfloridian]

We had our names taken off the roll here when they advocated for the Iraq invasion as being a holy war against good and evil. They called us unpatriotic. I was raised as a Southern Baptist, but I am ashamed of them right now. One large local church has split over moderate/conservative lines. Others are about to do so. It is going to be a real battle for the heart and soul of religion.

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050129/NEWS/501290365/1004

Published Saturday, January 29, 2005
AMENDMENT STRATEGY

Baptists to Fight Gay Marriages
Convention's plan includes alliance with lawmakers and possible tie to state's Catholics.

By Cary McMullen
Ledger Religion Editor

SNP..."LAKELAND -- A proposal to amend the state constitution to ban gay marriages took another step forward Friday.
The State Board of Missions of the Florida Baptist Convention approved a strategy to put a proposed amendment before voters next year. The Baptists are forming an alliance with family-advocacy groups and state legislators that eventually may include the largest denomination in the state, the Catholic Church.

The Baptist missions board, the coordinating body for the state convention, approved the strategy Friday near the end of a twoday meeting at the Lake Yale Baptist Conference Center in Leesburg.

A draft of the amendment, tentatively titled the "Marriage Preservation Amendment," is in the works. The strategy calls for gathering 80,000 signatures of registered voters by April so the Florida Supreme Court can review the amendment's language, said Barbara Denman, communications director for the Florida Baptist Convention. If the court approves the amendment, the coalition would attempt to gather 1 million signatures to put it on the ballot in November 2006....."END SNIP

[Rowdyboy]

1. I know there are several moderate/liberal Baptist organizations

in our state that have distanced themselves from the Southern Baptist Convention. Westminster Baptist in Jackson holds services that could pass as Episcopalian.

[liberal N proud]

2. Baptist and Catholic's cooperating, the end must be near

I grew up Catholic in a small Iowa town that was about 70% Baptist. As a Catholic you were the same as an atheist to the Baptist. Except the still thought they could save the atheist.
I was always called out by some Baptist because I was Catholic.

[CatholicEdHead]

7. Only right wing Catholics

the quasi-born agains. Most Catholics do not care about gay marriage and it is only those who are Republicans first and Catholics second who really want to push it.

[madfloridian]

8. Growing up as a Baptist, I felt I was always right and entitled.

That is how they taught us. Luckily my parents were open-minded, and I got my college education at two liberal arts colleges which made us think.

They taught we were the only ones on the road to salvation. I outgrew that, a lot have not. It is worse now.

The church in our city that just split, with half meeting at FSC, involves some of the more prominent folks in our city...Republicans. Publix Markets was born here, and the children of the original founders are active here now. I was glad to see many of them on the moderate side....leaving the more rabid to their hate and narrow-mindedness.

[Shopaholic]

11. LOL--I'm a Southern Baptist and you wouldn't . . . okay. . so you would

believe the number of Baptists who believe this particular piece of crap--that Catholics aren't Christians! It's revolting to me to believe that one religion's members are better Christians than another.

I've sought out progressive SB Churches over the years to attend and want to say that there are definitely churches out there that don't pay the national Southern Baptist convention much attention at all. But sadly, they state and national conventions do get a piece of our revenue and use it to conduct campaigns such as these which spread hate and venom and misinformation and do it in the name of God. Again, I wonder, do these people actually read their Bibles or are they so busy thumping the rest of us over the heads with it that they just never get around to reading it???

There's are reasons why I don't go to church as much as I probably should, and this would be one of them. The other is that I was actually told by one fellow member that it was impossible to be a Christian and vote for John Kerry (or any Democrat). This is the mindset we're up against and it terrifies me to think what the future holds for our party if we can't expose these charlatans for what they really are.

[madfloridian]

12. I think you chose a good word, expose. We can not give in to them.

They will not change their minds no matter if we try to be like them and pander. We must call them out on this. I was one of them, but then I realized I was not.

BUT...not all are....and that is the good thing. The half who split off from a large church here are wonderful people I have known a lifetime...the ones who stayed more often than not were more recent comers.

[ultraist]

3. More fighting between one type of Christianity and another, what's new?

This power struggle has been going on within Christianity since it's inception. Greek orthodox broke from the original Christianity, the Roman Catholics broke from the Greek Orthodox, the Catholics broke from the Roman Catholic, Episcopalians broke from the Catholics...etc it goes on and on.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised that organized religions have survived this long. With all of the corruption, power struggles, and intolerance, it's a wonder they haven't destroyed themselves. I suppose the roots of the power run deep. And of course, they each are the gatekeepers to "God."

[jody]

9. Greek orthodox broke from the original Christianity? I believe the

Orthodox Church predated the Roman Catholics and the Roman Catholics broke away from the founding churches.

[ultraist]

13. Read my post again

I did say that the Roman Catholics broke off from the Greek Orthodox. Where you are mistaken is that you are assuming that the Greek Orthodox was the original Christianity. That's not true. It came WAY LATER.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity
The earliest emergence of Christianity
In little over 300 years, Christianity grew from the personal practice of a minority of Jews to the dominant religion of the Mediterranean world. It also gained important extensions to the east and south of the Mediterranean. This section will examine those first 300 years.

The Earliest Church: Jerusalem Church, James the Just
The Gentile Church
House Churches
Dura-Europos, Syria is the site of the earliest discovered identifiable Christian house church.

[jody]

14. Sorry but wikipedia is not an acceptable source for things religious.

I said "the Orthodox Church predated the Roman Catholics and the Roman Catholics broke away from the founding churches." That happened circa 1054 and that is a fact.
:shrug:

[aquart]

4. What? You mean going to church doesn't work????

What a sad admission of failure.

[classof56]

5. I've given up on the Southern Baptists

The SBC church I was attending voted to allocate money to help fight a statewide "anti-gay marriage" constitutional amendment on the Nov. ballot. Then the pastor asked the congregation to pony up even more money to fight this evil. The ladies Bible study I had been going to for quite awhile became a "praise God we have such a man of faith leading our country" love-fest. I'm thinking the SBC missions board ought to stick with the mission Christ gave them: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel." And maybe they all should read or read again the book "Baptist Faith and Message" to remind themselves the basis for their beliefs and actions.

Like you, all I can say is, shame on them. Meanwhile, I won't waste my time in an SBC church anytime soon. Pity how this is all unfolding. And very, very sad.

Tired Old Cynic

[Lexingtonian]

6. this is everywhere now....

All of my 'churched' friends say their mainline congregations have been splitting over the past couple of years into moderate vs. conservative factions. The whole spectrum of denominations.

My own quite liberal group did so about a dozen years ago and is now, after a lot of pain, close to reunited. But we had thirty or forty resignations and deaths of maybe a dozen recalcitrant reactionary members, in the process. Our membership rose a bit through new members during the time, though.

I guess the pattern is that this schisming began in the most liberal groups first, in the early Nineties, reached the mainline churches in the late Nineties, and has now reached the most conservative churches.

[madfloridian]

10. Here is one of the "authors" of the SBC hijacking.

He was a sweet kid, very brilliant. Wonderful parents. I taught him and loved him. When he comes on TV now, he is a bombastic person who condemns everyone who does not agree with him.

I saw him on the Donahue show before it was cancelled. I felt very sad for what used to be, and for the little boy who loved people and brought me candy.

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mohler/?adate=2/23/2004

I taught others of the church leaders as well, but I had no clue that by even the 1970s the hijacking was going on.

[American Tragedy]

15. Has it ever occurred to these people that morality and legality

are two completely different forms of deterrant?

Moral decisions depend upon free will. Consequently, choosing not to engage in a particular activity simply due to fear of fine or imprisonment has nothing to do with morality. We know this. Why don't they? When are they going to leave everybody the fuck alone and take care of their own souls?