Something I Need To Bring To All Of Your Attention!

[leanin_green]

Last night, as I was thumbing through the channels, I came across a movie that reminded me of some things we need to remember as people opposed to the "adventure in Iraq." That movie was BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY.

There was one scene that was ominously reminiscent of what is happening in America again today. Many of the same statements, ideologies, political stances and general viewpoints are present today.

I found myself in awe of the fact that this same wound to our national psyche, ala Vietnam, is being played out again with Iraq. When I think about it, it wouldn't matter what country it was. It really isn't so much about what country or war we engage ourselves in. It's about the wound that never healed.

When Tom Cruise's character was all dressed up in his dress blues, rode in the Fourth of July parade(and the flashbacks started to bleed in), was up in front of the crowd to give his speech, and the cry of a baby could be heard over the crowd, and the flashbacks began in earnest. I was seeing the wound all over again. I heard what the VFW character was saying as if I was listening to these same men today. The scenes of the VA hospital, the doctor explaining about the cutbacks, all of it is exactly what is occurring today.

So what am I trying to say? It's just this.

This war in Iraq is a recurring theme for the wound that has never healed in our country. We are the new players in that theme. We have repeated the same mistakes because we have never, as a nation, come to terms with what happened in Vietnam. The only ones who get it are those Vietnam Vets who are actively helping the Iraq vets in the hospitals. They know what is going on and are going about it the right way. With understanding and support. Listen my fellow Democrats and Progressives. There are a lot of Americans hurting and confused about what is happening. Republican and Democrats alike are losing loved ones to this war. As more light is being shed on how we went to war, many cherished beliefs are being challenged by those of the Right. These aren't the political operatives I'm talking about. These are simple Americans who need our help and compassion. These people want to believe in this country so badly it hurts. As we fight against what BushCo and his cronies are doing to our country let's not forget these simple people. Let's not repeat the mistakes at home of the Vietnam era.

We have an opportunity to get it right this time. And know this. It is the law of Karma, cause and effect, God's Law, whatever you want to call it, that each time the opportunity comes along to learn about the behavior that has brought us to the current circumstances and we don't use it; the next time it comes around it will be worse. The intensity increases each time in order to create the necessary internal pressure, discomfort and crises so that what needs to be addressed in our behavior is addressed. Why do you think that John Kerry was our nominee? Coincidence? Not hardly. Kerry, knowingly or not, answered a collective unconscious call from our national psyche for healing. I believe our nation answered that call and elected him. We all know the rest. There is an element of our consciousness as a nation who won't accept the need for healing. Just look at the people in power. All of them that are in key positions served at the time of the original wound of this country. The people who hold to their view in our country are afraid. How will we answer this fear? With anger? With actions of disdain, superiority, name-calling, elitism and detachment? Yes, they revile us, make us crazy and stir us up into a frenzy. We need to talk to those that lived during the time of this original wound to our nation. Engage a Vietnam vet into a conversation. Let's ask them to step up to leadership positions to guide us through this murky time. What did we do wrong then that created the need to revisit it again? The players that have brought us here again are more insidious this time and it will take a greater effort on our part to not go down the wrong roads again. How do we proceed?

[sportndandy]

1. The country will never resolve VietNam

because there will always be a large and influential section of our society who is in denial. It is unthinkable to them that the US could lose, therefore someone at home has to be blamed. Somehow our protests gave such comfort to the enemy that they were able to carry on against a superior force. Those who hold this belief will never accept that the war was wrong and that we were beaten by a more dedicated people.

Fast forward to today. Iraq is an attempt to erase vietnam, to prove that we could have won if we stuck it out. There is a core of war supporters who will never believe that the war is wrong, and will alway beleive that we will triumph. Reasoning will not change this.

The problem is that these people generally hold power in this country. They try to make it political suicide to for anyone to accept that we were wrong and that we lost because we deserved to.

Now democrats in congress are protesting the war. When we finally give up, which we will, these democrats will be blamed for giving comfort to the enemy and causing us to be unable to win.

Fascism is a wonderful thing. The pro-war people will always find a way to have a war, and the anti-war people will be blamed when they lose.

[radwriter0555]

2. Iraq isn't the new viet nam, it's the start of the world conquest hitler

style, brought to you by the people who profited from Viet Nam.

There is no way to beat this regime. There are no tactics, no movements, no protests that will still the coming hell we're on the cusp of.

It will take 15 - 20 years of hell before this nation is once again ruled by decent people, and hell will be here long before that happens.

Like hitler, it will only take a world united to bring down the bush regime, and you should expect it to take a very long time... and it won't happen in the voting booth. Your votes are worthless now.

I'm really sorry.

[bryant69]

3. Thank you Mr. Sunshine

But this is BS. If we were planning to conquer the world we would not be pussyfooting around the need for a much larger military. They would be pushing for a larger army a larger navy.

Instead it was Kerry that was calling for two new army divisions (and with good reason, actuallY), and Bush who must preserve his tax cuts and so can't ask for any more money for the military.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[leanin_green]

5. Whom is the WE you speak of Mr. Melancholy?

Don't equate what is happening in Washington with the rest of America. I've stopped caring what those idiots do a long time ago, I just keep my eye on them. I'm more concerned with the results of their actions in my name have on the real country, you and I. So if you haven't anything to add that helps on the subject, get the fuck out of my way!

[bryant69]

6. I'm not sure what I did to earn this response

Could you explain?

Also please explain how I am in your way as I am not sure how I am doing that either.

[leanin_green]

9. The Mr. Sunshine dig got to me a little.

And I sympathize with your attitude with the current state of things, I held onto that too for quite awhile. I'm just trying to get grounded again and offer a voice of reflection here. That's what I'm talking about getting in the way. Believe me Bryant, the anger is just below the surface and it doesn't take much to get a bite from this growling dog! Sorry if I jumped you.

[bryant69]

13. Well if you are looking for discussions where there is no sarcasm

than this may not be the ideal place for you.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. So, I guess you're admitting to a personal attack? Very nice...

...how honest of you!

[bryant69]

23. Calling someone Mr. Sunshine isn't a personal attack.

[leanin_green]

25. You know what bryant?

As I looked at the placement of your first post I realized Mr. Sunshine wasn't directed at me. So I owe you an apology for this whole back and forth. Guess I'm getting a little defensive, sorry.

[Beam Me Up]

19. This will change with the next 'terrorist' attack

Small nuke wipes out half a million in a mid-size city such as Detroit. 24/7 news coverage spreads the images around the globe. Martial law is declared. The total militarization of our society (compulsory enlisted service for ALL young'uns)--and SUV driving mom and pop aren't going to belly ache about it. "Liberals" will be a thing of the past. They might as well be now.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. You can ignore whatever you want to ignore, but it's all spelled out...

...on the PNAC website starting with "Rebuilding America's Defenses".

The recurring theme of the PNAC writings is "global domination" by any means necessary to include using one or more of our economic, military, and political resources.

You may also be intrigued by the statement that we needed "another Pearl Harbor" to cause Americans to want to achieve broad goals in the Middle East.

[radwriter0555]

22. Who needs an army when you've got nukes, bio-weapons, the CIA,

and propoganda and the support of half the USA.

You seem to think 'it can't happen here'. I'm telling it's happening now. Under your very eyes.

Mark my words, in less than 12 years NATO will take up arms against the US military.

I don't know what the solution is. I'm very sorry.

[leanin_green]

4. Sounds as if you got the gist of it.

This is exactly my point. I'm not talking about the regime. I'm talking about real Americans. Forget about their politics and focus on the one thing we all share, this war. Believe me, as things progress, even as you describe them, the people will need each other. Forget about these profiteers and their madness. Your right, we can't stop them anymore. But I believe in the people of this country. And I believe they are hurting and continue to hurt. Gradually they will all become more and more disillusioned and that is our opportunity. So how do suggest we proceed when this inevitability happens?

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Watch the missery index

when it raeches 70% riots happen

90% all bets are off, and these folks are pushing the country in that direction, and FAST

[sportndandy]

7. You might like this story

I think it is a russian folk tale, I can't remember were I heard it.

A man lived in a little house, living his little life and minding his own business. One day came a knock on the door. The man opens the door, and on the other side is the Dictator, who asks: "May I come in?", and without waiting for an answer he does just that. For the next dozen or so years the Dictator lives in the man's house. The man cooks for him, cleans for him, shelters him. One day the Dictator dies. The man wraps the Dictator in the funeral shroud, carries him out the door and sets him down.
"No" he says, and goes back inside.

[oneold1-4u]

14. Wished I'd said that!

We may have to handle things in somewhat that manner. We will soon know! This house is ours, all Americans, and we must hold for all right to the end. We liked the bright light of the candle but it is dimming, we must toss it and start with something better and more lasting. As a strength for many who do not see clearly, we must create a means to light their path as well as our own!

[mojaverose]

8. Amen To All You Say, And An Addendum

Don't just talk to 'Nam vets, as valuable as their insight is. Talk, too, to those on the homefront who were working to end that war. Talk to people who know why Jane Fonda went to Hanoi.
I have listened, and heard not one response to the Republican character assassination of those of us who opposed that war. They talk about soldiers being called "Baby Killers". Unfortunately, some 'nam vets even believe that myth. Several studies have been conducted and not one of them ever found an instance of that occurring. The soldiers questioned all responded that they had not had it happen to them, personally, but knew of somebody who had. I know personally, because I was In the movement, that the protestors did Not consider soldiers evil. We considered them the ultimate victims.
I do not want to open old wounds, but maybe they need to be opened so they can heal. I have heard pundits compare this to Vietnam regarding policy, but the demonstrators are always treated in a vacuum, as if this is something new, and nothing to worry about. Nobody ever mentions that Protests of Vietnam started out slowly, too.
What I see here is almost an exact replay of Vietnam. this is what That war looked like in 1966. I pray that this is Not the same, so that my grandchildren are not put in the same position I was. It is Hell to have to make a choice between your government and your country. It is Hell to watch your country, which you love so dearly, doing something so Wrong.
Maybe I wandered a little; this is a topic about which I cannot be objective and rational. It is my Youth. At a time in my life when the biggest thing on my mind Should have been How to pass my history exam, or Whom I'm going out with Saturday night, I was caught up in Assassination, Violence, and Loss of Trust at the most basic level of my being. I speak with the generic "I", and I do not mention that the soldiers suffered too, lost their youth too, because they can tell their own stories. I would not Presume.
Although few of us on the homefront were required to make the Ultimate Sacrifice, All of us made tremendous sacrifices of the Psyche. Whether we went on to successful careers or not, all of us suffer. We don't Want to be fans of any political candidate again. We don't want to get anybody else killed. We don't Want to speak out against those who villify us; we don't want to do Anything that will add to the fires again. It seems that, in our Youth and Old Age, we are in the same place.
Maybe the country needs this experience to learn. but I don't think we want to be in on the lesson.
Talk to these people. They have valuable insights.

[leanin_green]

10. Thanks, this is what I'm talking about. . .

I was only eight in 66. I'm toward the end of the Baby Boomers that I often refer to the Bridge Generation. Too young to participate in the 60's but old enough to be influenced by them. When the 70's happened and the whole Me Generation thing happened, I'm afraid I was still influenced by the 60's and felt more like a We Generation. I'm 46 now and still have my 65 microbus, you figure it out.

I agree with everything your saying. I'm just trying to shed some light on what the possible process is that's going on and that we need to be aware of it. I mean, it feels to me like I'm pickin' a festering scab or something. It does need to be opened up.

[bobbieinok]

31. yea, verily...

"Although few of us on the homefront were required to make the Ultimate Sacrifice, All of us made tremendous sacrifices of the Psyche. Whether we went on to successful careers or not, all of us suffer. We don't Want to be fans of any political candidate again. We don't want to get anybody else killed. We don't Want to speak out against those who villify us; we don't want to do Anything that will add to the fires again. It seems that, in our Youth and Old Age, we are in the same place."

[wadestock]

11. I appreciate your logic, but you're barking up the wrong tree.....

I have a dozen or so friends I still stay in touch with from Nam....and not one of them would touch any of this with a 10 foot pole.

That's not necessarily a robust survey, but having been through that period and almost been drafted (number 289) I have a number of deep memories about what happened, friends that were injured, etc.

Ironically, we had our chance to elect president the guy that would have brought sanity to all of this, John Kerry....bringing all that good old lessons learned Nam stuff to bear as you put it....but it ain't gonna happen. Our time has passed...and no one will ever know now just what we lost by not having him president.

Don't forget, the real roots of all this current mess was sown in Desert Storm. When Daddy Bush went into Iraq and I saw all the hubbub about kicking ass I thought to myself....geeze, how could this be...but then thought about the possible connection to Nam and how the country really needed to win a war to get over it....more or less the analogies you've made.

Desert Storm bothered me deeply....almost as much as this so called war (neither of them could really be called wars in my opinion, Desert Storm being an military exercise and this one being an occupation). I was one of the few that argued vehemently against that campaign, and many of my Nam buddies agreed....they saw it as pointless.

But people generally bought the rationale for force, analogies of Saddam to Hitler, and got pumped up about what they though our military could actually accomplish. The military got pumped up after Desert Storm bigtime. I work with people throughout the Army and there were a lot of people full of themselves that we could kick anyone's ass in the world. Desert Storm was actually a very well crafted move by Daddy Bush, and only cost us a bit under 10 Billion when all over. No one should ever expect wars to be so cheap, or fought with so few casualties, although many don't know over 800 were lost, about 1/2 to friendly fire.

Unfortunately, it was Desert Storm which lay the poor groundwork for this so called war. Don't get me wrong, we have the best, most highly trained and lethal army in the world, but it got a bit too full of itself after Desert Storm.

Now think clearly volunteer Army vs. non-volunteer Army. There's a nite and day difference between what happened in Nam and what you have today. There's not I know of the of the Nam generation that have the same kick ass mentality that is prevalent in today's volunteer Army or today's youth in general for that matter.

Now couple these factors with a bad businessman with bad intentions and an administration that looks at all of this as a "business opportunity". These are people that will wave the flag, sing support our troops, and then stick it to them. In the best case scenario, it's mere incompetence and a bunch of bad businessmen listening to overzealous military strategists (Thomas Barnett, et al)

Why they can't see through these lying bastards is beyond me. So the bottom line is this...we're not going to get it right this time. The only way to "get it" is to go through the horrible financial loss, death, and failure, such as the Soviets did in Afghanistan.

Unfortunately, to reach that threshold of pain will probably take another 5 years and 5,000 lives.

True war is unaffordable.

[leanin_green]

12. Do you think so?

You may know more than I, having lived through it differently. I was too young to really understand all that was happening around me then. Yet, when I went into the Navy in 76(I enlisted in the delayed entry program in late 75)it wasn't soon after Nam. I became a corpsman with the Marines and I had many a drunken evening with quite a few Gunnery Sgts, SSgts and Tops that were there and could only seem to access it after a great deal of alcohol. It's funny what these men/Marines share with their Docs in that state. Not to mention that the military of that time was no picinic. Couldn't even wear our uniforms out in San Diego without risking bodily injury. I just don't want that to happen again. Because most of it came from from the same kind of people writing on this site.

I don't know, I'm just feeling the pain of all of this now and I'm groping for a way. Perhaps I'm reaching out to all of you who lived it to get some answers. So much of me just wants to foment revolution against all of this, but who am I? I know that's not an answer. You'd just be replacing it with something built on the same principle, blood and violence.

[oneold1-4u]

18. Oldest generation

We hardly went to war in time in 41 and quickly knew we had to be in Europe's war if we wanted help from the rest of the world. Korea did nothing for this country but bolster the industrial machine.
VN wasn't needed at all and at the beginning I told a friend how wrong it was. She had a map of VN and put pins on it for every American assault and believed to the last that we were right and going to win. This war today may well have been necessary at a point in time but bush is not a leader who has the slightest idea of what would ever be needed to gain a place in the MI. He is carrying a lot of cheap rich no-nothings along with him because money makes him seem strong. He isn't strong and neither is anyone in his cabinet or "his congress". When deceit is so accepted, speaking truth will take the strongest people to task. Prepare to be strong and accept the task or this nation will come down to where only the criminal will survive.

[wadestock]

24. Wonderful statement......

"When deceit is so accepted, speaking truth will take the strongest people to task. Prepare to be strong and accept the task or this nation will come down to where only the criminal will survive."

Look at how far we've come....or that is....gone backwards.
All in the interests of the "bottom line".

It's taught today in all the leading text books......the job is this...make a better bottom line for the shareholders.

What ever happened to good old American ingenuity? An honest dollar for an honest day's work?

The slim has risen to the top.

[leanin_green]

29. I love your generation.

I'm sad whenever we lose another one. It must be hardest for them the most to see all that they fought and died for treated so badly. Please speak up more and teach this young one how to fight this fight. I'd like to think I'm one of the "strongest people." I need all the guidance I can get, because I'm beginning to find my voice, and it is a strong voice. This site has helped me to begin to clear my throat and bite back the bile that is rising in my throat.

[libnnc]

15. Here's a question I have

How do we talk to those who have gone and whose families have lost loved ones in Iraq? There are those who believe this war is just and right because they HAVE to believe it to stay sane. In their heart of hearts they may know the truth but they hold on to the lies because its the only thing that makes sense.

How do we communicate with folks who have lost so much and hold on to the lies because there's nothing else to hold on to?

Thoughts?

[wadestock]

17. For them....it will be doubly worse.....

once they realize the ineptitude that was responsible for this.

The sheer ineptitude that is making our country go bankrupt as we speak.

Yes, I love the country too...and I feel this in your words too....but we have to come to grips with the sheer fact that these bad businessmen are heartless. There's no pulling any punches on this fact....they are a bunch of lying bastards that only care about what they can gain out of any of this.

It's actually a nitemarish scenario that we will all have to come to grips with. Bush is a drunk that has illusions of making his name in the history books. Meanwhile there are a bunch of 4 star bad business assholes on the sidelines just loving his coaching the whole thing....for what they think they can profit from all this.

We've all been actually been preparing to be fooled like this for years now....listening to cheap sales pitches....being told by bad businessmen just how much we can gain by following their success plan.
Little by little we've been nickle and dimed to death.

Now, unfortunately, the entire country is at the mercy of these bad businessmen who have no real love for this country like you and me.
Even worse is the culture that has developed, a winner takes all mentality that perhaps we ought to sell our sanity just for the 1 in a million chance to get a ticket to paridise.

The only thing they worry about is the bottom line. And as much as a fool might believe that Bush has some heart or religion in him, believe me....that's all the freek that bastard is worried about too.

[leanin_green]

28. You know, I've been saying that too.

And I believe it too. That's why I've come to where I am now. I'll enlist in any fight against those guys, anytime. Just tell me when and where and what to bring. That anger and zeal is still burning within me. But, in the meantime, I am coming to the realization that even many of the people I have spoken of, love this country, and I'm not going to turn my back on them.

In reference to the bad businessmen principle, right on the mark! I see it the same way. In fact, I have to thank bush and company for being so inept and sinsiter that it finally lit a fire under my ass. The election really sealed the deal for me. I've began withdrawing(and believe me it's withdrawl)from t.v. I spend most of my time reading and learning all I can for what is ahead. I have some pretty way out ideas that were just tin foil stuff when I first got here, but, I'm beginning to see much of what I've been saying starting to be repeated by others from other sources. I thank God for this site. Peace.

[magellan]

30. It's consumerism all the way, that's it exactly

bush** was sold to us. 9/11 was sold to us. Iraq was sold to us. Terrible policies have been sold and more continue to be sold, while things like logging the sequoias and tainting our water and air go all but unnoticed down in the fine print.

A lot of Americans have been fooled by decades of clever marketing into buying this product called BushCo. It's actually the END product. Reagan, Bush I, Clinton...they were prototypes. What we're saddled with now is a corporate hegemony acting as government; glorified salesmen who don't give a damn about their customers or whether we really need what they're selling, as long as they enhance their bottom line.

Remember the Pepsi/Coke wars? Do the tactics coming from BushCo seem familiar? They should. These people didn't get into politics to make life better for you and me. They're there to make a profit. And they'll be anyone's best friend as long as people keep buying from them -- but only that long. WE know that. WE'RE the ones who aren't buying, so the BushCo salesmen don't waste their "goodwill" on us.

Only a fool would leave their child in the care of their utilities company CEO. And yet that's exactly what America has done to its children.

I don't know what the answer is; I'm fairly well convinced there's nothing that we, the ones who aren't buying, can do to stop things. We're in bargain basement conditions now, with BushCo trying to sell every last cheap bangle as a luxury item. Maybe we'll have the fire sale next. The only thing I know for certain is there's already some buyer's remorse out there, and it's going to get a great deal worse in the not too distant future. Perhaps the only thing we can do is act as educators to those who will inevitably realize they've been taken. But I think we'll have to wait for them to come to us, first.

[Karenina]

33. Here's a place to start...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1198643

[leanin_green]

36. Thanks, that is a good place to start.

[leanin_green]

26. libnnc, this is what I'm talking about.

These people need support too. Not just from others like them, but from us a well. Let them have their beliefs, it's meaningless in the scheme of things. They'll come to their own understanding as time goes on. So, to answer your question, we communicate through silent support, and give them us to hold onto if need be. This isn't a time for making our case for or against the war. We need to start seeing each other as Americans again, apart from bush, et,al.

Thanks for hearing some of what I'm asking about.

[hector459]

16. What we did to the Native Americans, the Civil War, War with Mexico---

are wounds that have never healed either. The Civil War is still being fought across the nation and we will never rid ourselves from it. Such is the case with Viet Nam. I am beginning to believe that man is a much less noble being than we like to think we are. With each generation more and more of human compassion seems to be bred out. Man's evolution seems to be heading toward more evil and less good. Glad I won't be around in 60 years.

[leanin_green]

27. hector, I hear you. We have much to answer for, but. . .

what Vietnam did was awaken a generation to just what your talking about. Some of it began to creep in during Korea, my dad told me about that. But it took full bloom during Nam. The whole decade was one shock after another. We couldn't help but wake up and ask WTF? I believe it was the first time in history that we took our leaders to task about what we were doing in the world. It's been done on a smaller scale before, but not to the point it was during Nam/60's.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. My brother in Law was in Nam, I know

a Seal who was in NAM, my hubby served in every major conflict save Bosnia over the last 20 years, as a Navy Man.

We talk about this all the time now...

I also spent ten years as a medic (in somebody else's service) and swa plenty due to the other silent war that many profit from, the so called War on Drugs...

We all have concluded they need these wars, constant warfare is good for them, and their bottom line. We, as a nation have been here before, where Corporations direct the direction of the country... taht is 1900 McKineley America.

Now you are right the scabs from Nam are bleeding, but so are the collecive scabs of the civil war, and civil rights... this country truly is in the midst of an internal and so far, cold civil war.


It may explode, and when it does, you will know it, and I will know it... if things get bad enough (and I beleive they will) this country will explode into Revolution... and I mean a hot open revolt.... the let them eat cake crowd will learn what many others have learned over the course of history.

Of course the other possibity, due to the PNAC papers, is that this country will have to be brought down... and tens of thousands, if not millions will die... but the lesson will not be cheap... and that is my nightmare... but I knwo that is what we have inhertited due to us sleeping at the switch.

Yes there is a difference from Vietnam... LBJ was not plaaning world domination, the Neo Cons are.

[leanin_green]

38. Thanks fellow Doc.

Your right, we did see this before in 1900 and what happened to McKinley? Internally people are fighting what they are seeing. Right now, I think, they are still in disbelief and are struggling with the new reality. Eventually it will explode, because bush and his ilk are too dumb and smug and think they can continue their "master plan" with impunity. And their just stupid enough to think that no one can do anything about it. This is where my faith in the American people is justified. They will revolt, and your right, it will be hot and open. Either that, or we will finally receive our karmic due justice. I guess we're saying the same thing from different perspectives.

[0rganism]

35. Kerry and the karmic burden of Vietnam

> Kerry, knowingly or not, answered a collective unconscious call from
> our national psyche for healing. I believe our nation answered that
> call and elected him

Well, I agree with you up to a point. Unfortunately for all of us, Sen. Kerry did not embrace the necessary healing process, he ignored his own prior involvment in the anti-war movement to the detriment of his campaign, and was overrun by liars with respect to his combat experience. As a result, he was NOT elected, and instead our nation elected the anti-Kerry: a know-nothing bullshit artist who spent his Vietnam years hiding from duty, who now presents himself as a triumphant Crusader for Liberty as he loots the treasury on behalf of his corporate sponsors.

Far from answering a call to begin a healing process, our sad nation has repudiated it, and instead chosen to revisit every struggle we've ever fought: the Vietnam war, World War II, the Civil Rights movement, the Labor Rights movement, the Gilded Age and the Great Depression, the Civil War, and so on, ultimately all the way back to the American Revolution. As with any such recapitulation, it must be viewed from all sides: the oppressors and the oppressed, the invaders and the invaded, the guilty and the innocent; we will take part in this retro-drama from both sides of every possible dialectic.

Sadly, we cannot move forward to confront the urgent obstacles of the future until we learn the lessons offered by the demons of the past. Worse yet, by the scope of our own self-imposed idiocy, we drag the course of human civilization, indeed the entire biosphere, along with us for the ride. It doesn't matter where you are on the planet; the people who hope to avoid this insanity by moving to Canada are fooling themselves. We must do everything we can to ensure that this time we find a way to learn and remember.

[leanin_green]

37. Just to be clear.

When I say Kerry knowingly or not answered the call for healing, what I am referring to is that many of us find ourselves doing things that we don't know or understand fully. I think Kerry fits into this category. The times we are in vibrated at a frequency that resonated with Kerry. Therefore he was moved to act. And as far as him NOT being elected, well, I believe he was. I believe that Americans for the most part did respond to the need for healing. However, it was denied them by fraud and theft. This is taking awhile to sink in, but it is. The more bush struts, smirks, claims his mandate to destroy everything dear to them it will become a part of the accepted knowledge and people will respond.

[Catbird]

39. How about the crusades?

I think our karma dates from before the American Revolution. Sometimes I think we are in the middle of the crusades that I thought were just ancient history when I learned about them in school.