If The DNC does not elect Dean, what will you do?

[Jack The Tab]

Since I believe Dean is the only hope for our party to stop Republican majority for the next generation, I think we need him.

Im getting a premonition that Dean is not going to be elected by the current advisor/lobbyist/old guard faction of the party.

If he is not elected, not only will the Dems get NO MORE of my money, but they will have to work very hard to even get my vote.

I may start contributing Green.

Edit for DNC

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Is Dean running for head of the DLC too?

[goodhue]

2. The DNC elects DNC chair, not the DLC . . .

[wtbymark]

3. I'll vote Progressive

until the party becomes bigger that the democratic

[Cleita]

4. DNC is not getting a red cent from me.

I would really like to see Dean stay at Democracy for America and make it the voice of the Democratic Party. Let the DLCers wither on the vine like the minority Republican lites that they are.

[davidinalameda]

5. it depends on who they choose

there are still some good choices out there other than Dean

[electropop]

6. What about Rosenberg?

My only acquaintance with him is from seeing some of his speech on C-Span yesterday. He said he wants to run weekly Norquist-style meetings, and he sounded like an actual progressive, unlike some of those clowns who seem to want to turn the Democratic Party into Repuke Lite. I strongly approve of the Norquist meetings. We need that to get a coordinated sound bite out every week.

[Roxy66]

48. I like Rosenberg too...Dean is too "now", we need new!!!

[Dob Bole]

7. Is there anyone to the left of Dean running? Kucinich, maybe?

[K-W]

8. Change doesnt come in a gift basket.

It would be great if Dean got it, it would make things easier for the progressive movement, but he isnt a lynchpin and this isnt a test of the democrats.

Until there is a progressive movement that can battle corporations and the right we cant expect the democratic party to change magically and we cant reach the conclusion that we should give up.

Until we try, we cant give up. And we havent tried yet.

[Jack The Tab]

10. Sadly, I think this is a test of the Democrats...

This is either sticking with the Capital Hill status quo or bringing in a true voice of the ideals our party stands for...and most importantly, is not afraid to call liars LIARS.

We disagree here. This is perhaps the biggest test of the Democratic party in a generation.

[K-W]

15. We have elections in this country.

The democratic party is just a political structure.

The people you have a problem with are the democratic politicians. The ones in office now.

The thing is, these wont neccessarily be the same democrats in office forever, in fact they probably wont be.

So why on earth would you care to test a group of democrats who you already know arent that progressive? What good does that do?

Especially when the simple solution to the problem is to replace them in elections with progressive democrats.

We dont have to just bitch and whine about them, we get to vote them out of office.

[patricia92243]

73. Totally agree!!

[OnionPatch]

9. I'm thinking Green too.

I've been giving the Dems the benefit of the doubt for a long time now, but they have a real chance to build on a progressive movement, a real populist awakening, and start winning. All they have to do is do the right thing. If they can't do that, I can't stay with them anymore.

[arwalden]

11. Oh Yeah... Here We Go!

[txaslftist]

36. Heh!

[Cocoa]

12. kill myself of course

what would be the point of going on without my preferred candidate as chair of a political committee?

[ShaneGR]

13. I'm backing Fowler, and I have a vote. :-)

Mostly because I believe Fowler is energetic, organized, experienced, young, and loves the grassroots. He's what our party needs, a fresh vibrant NEW face.

[JNelson6563]

14. Continue my efforts on a local and state level

and continue to ignore the DNC as I have for the last few years.

Julie

[BiggJawn]

16. Become totally apathetic.

Because a "ReTHUG Light" Democratic Party ain't worth expending calories on.

What? You think we'll still have a "2-party system" in this country?

hah.

[arwalden]

20. Sounds Like A Recipe For SUCCESS To Me...

whoo-hoo!

[txaslftist]

37. heh heh...

[Larkspur]

17. I will donate only to DFA and send the DNC form letters of my own

saying that they do not represent my Dem values and I'm sending my money to Dean's PAC since he represents my Dem values.

I will continue to work in the Dem Party in my area but will ignore the DNC leadership, like I do now.

[Walt Starr]

18. What will I do?

Declare political independence and only ever vote for any Democrat personally supported by Dean with the only exception being the office of president. For president I will only vote for Dean or a third party candidate.

[arwalden]

19. There Ya Go! That'll Show Em, Won't It?

They'll be sorry they ever CROSSED you, huh?

[Walt Starr]

21. Yep, it sure will

No more votes of money because if Dean is not the chair, the party is D-E-A-D as far as I'm concerned.

[arwalden]

24. Whoops! I Think I Caught You Sticking Out Your Tongue At Me...

... and waving your hands with you thumbs in your ears!

:hi:

[Walt Starr]

25. Nope, you caught me looking at Greener pastures

I'm through voting for a choice between Republican and even more Republican.

[arwalden]

26. Goodbye!

C-YA :hi:

I'm certain that even in defeat, you'll find great solice in knowing that you did the "right thing". Even though third-party candidates will always lose the national elections, at least you'll have your priciples to keep you company.

[Walt Starr]

29. The Democrats haven't done any better than third party candidates

two elections running now. so voting third party gets no different a result than voting Democratic did for me in 2000 and 2004.

So yeah, why waste your vote of the Democrats when they lose anyway?

[arwalden]

30. Wow... Two Whole Elections? That Must Be Some Sort Of Record!

>> So yeah, why waste your vote of the Democrats when they lose anyway? <<

I find it stunning that anyone would seriously ask such a question.

[Walt Starr]

32. I find it stunning that you would continue flogging this dead horse

Oh yeah, that's right, you still "believe"

so when's Kerry going to be inaugurated?

[K-W]

38. Theres nothing to belive Walt

The people in the party right now got there by winning elections or sucking up to people who win elections. Yes right now the party doesnt represent the left.

Now I would be thrilled if the democrats as they are constructed now were to take a chance and shift left, but that isnt an expectation, it is a hope.

Why would you expect them to magically change? This is a political party, if you want it to change you have to change who gets elected in party primaries.

Until progressives are out helping progressive dems defeat centrist dems in primaries, to expect the party to respond to you is like shouting at a mountain. Forgive us if we get a little annoyed when you ask for unreasonable things and then give up when you dont get them.

The country moved right because the right won elections, now you want it to move left just because the left asks.

The democratic party is a structure with access to power that is not locked to us. We just need to get enough people to win elections. Are you afraid we cant do that?

[Walt Starr]

40. Maybe I've just believed that bullshit longer than you

but that's what it is, bullshit. Nobody gets nominated that the party eleites don't want nominated.

A very few men control the party, and nothing will change that unless it is allowed to be changed.

[K-W]

42. This isnt about belief walt, stop saying belief.

This is a matter of facts.

"Nobody gets nominated that the party eleites don't want nominated"
That just isnt true. You are just plain wrong.

"A very few men control the party, and nothing will change that unless it is allowed to be changed"

Again, this is false.

What you are seeing is the entrenched nature of local and state party politics. And I certainly am not going to pretend that the system is fair and open. It isnt. But it isnt closed either. And once we take power the same institutional conservatism is going to help us keep power past where our work warrents, just like it has done for the DLC.

Yes there are unfair roadblocks in our way, but those roadblocks were in labors way, in the civil rights movements way, in the enviromentalists way, in the christian right's way.

Yah it sucks, but it isnt something that cant be overcome if we truely have the potential to court large amounts of americans to our issues.

[Walt Starr]

43. I've been playing it for two fucking decades

Nothing changes, NOTHING!

[K-W]

45. Massive liberal reforms have happened whether you want ot admit it or not.

And they have happened through the parties.

[Walt Starr]

46. Not in the past two decades

All I';ve seen is a slow degradation to becoming even more Republican than the Republicans.

[K-W]

49. Legal segregation was around for more than 20 years.

Is it still around?

You also are missing the fact that on the republican side of things we have watched as a religious grassroots movement has used sheer force at the polls to take a major role in the republican party when the moderate party establishment fought them every step of the way.

They didnt mind them voting republican, but they certainly did mind them taking seats and power.

[KharmaTrain]

58. Crawl, Walk, Run, Fly...in that order

right now the Democratic party is as down as it's ever been. Principals are wonderful and important, but that's only when you have power and the ability to make changes. Unless the Democratic party finds ways of winning state & local elections, all of our remaining rights will be endangered...we won't even need to worry about making positive changes.

We're in major defensive mode right now, and it's time we found ways to win and see what develops. Too many here are at point C or D...figuring out whose gonna be the 2008 candidate or what the issues will be. Without a strong party from the bottom up, whatever happens at the top will remain aloof from the rest of us and we'll remain frustrated.

When I say we have to find ways to help fund and work with and for local candidates, I either get lip service or flamed as being some kinda of a sell-out. I thought diversity was supposed to be one of the greatest assets of being a Democrat, but you surely won't see it here.

Personally, I could care less who is the head of the DNC, I'll just be glad to see McAuliffe gone. Time for a change. I am far convinced Dr. Dean is that change. Let's hear all the voices and build a party where all can participate, not to build litmus tests and walls that just divide this party further.

[arwalden]

55. What? Have You Confused Me With Someone Else?

> Oh yeah, that's right, you still "believe"
> so when's Kerry going to be inaugurated?

Your response makes no sense at all. Exactly what is it that I'm supposed to believe? :shrug:

[arwalden]

74. (( crickets chirping ))

[K-W]

33. I love how no one seems to realize that democrats are elected in primaries

And thus damning the party because you dont like the people in it today is supremely silly because A. They wont be there forever. And B. If our movement is as potentially big as we think it is, we can remove them ourselves.

[Walt Starr]

34. I've been folowing that mantra for more than two decades

It ain't worked yet and I'm nearly convinced it will never work.

[K-W]

41. History is full of organized groups getting party power.

So im really not sure what you are talking about.

The democratic party is extremely week. Even a small trend towards progressives knocking out moderates in key races would throw the party for a loop and give us massive momentum in the party.

But people are going to have to do more than have mantras. This requires an infrastructure, this requires organization. As long as corporations and the religious right are better organized than we are, we will lose to them and they will control our party better than we do.

[Walt Starr]

44. Organized groups with tons of money backing them up

The corporations bought and paid for political power and they will not release it.

[K-W]

47. If you think things are hopeless, what on earth is Dean going to do?

This is the other big problem with your argument.

If we cant build a grassroots movement capable of taking back the country, what difference on earth is a Howard Dean going to make? If he is wrong about the power of the progressives and thier ideas, why are you rooting for him to get into power and fail?

Either with dean or without we need enough people behind us to win elections. And if we are that close that just getting dean in the DNC will tip the scale, we can do it without him too.

[Walt Starr]

51. Dean becoming Chair would prove I am wrong

That's what it means to me.

[txaslftist]

39. Gufawww!

[Walt Starr]

54. ABB Died November 3rd

and with it the bullshit argument that voting third party is throwing away your vote.

[arwalden]

56. Astounding.

:eyes:

You do realize that when it comes to national elections, we have a two-party system, right? When it comes right down to it, only one of two candidates stands a chance at winning a national election.

Just so you know.

[Walt Starr]

57. Where in the constitution does it say we have a two party system?

Point to the Article, Section, and Clause, please.

Until you can do that, there are as many parties as people want.

[arwalden]

59. Until We Get Rid Of The Electoral College...

... and have direct voting with instant run-off elections (in the event that no candidate gets a majority of the vote) we have a de-facto two-party system. It doesn't need to be in the Constitution for it to be true.

But... feel free to continue believing in the fantasy that a third party candidate can win a national election.

[Walt Starr]

61. Dupe

dupe

[arwalden]

63. Have Fun Storming The Castle!

[Walt Starr]

62. We've had multiple parties in multiple elections

Many elections ahve been thrown to the House of Representatives.

If neither of the two parties represent my views, I'll find a party that does. We are now on the fast track to both parties representing Republican values, so I will be left with no other choice.

[arwalden]

64. Have Fun Storming The Castle!

[Walt Starr]

65. It'll be more effective than sitting back and letting Republicans dictate

the future unopposed.

[arwalden]

69. Effective? Keep Telling Yourself That.

You might even beging to convince yourself that it's true.

[Walt Starr]

70. What the fuck have the Democrats done for four years

Not a god damned thing!

[arwalden]

71. Well.. Just Go On And Do What You Think Is "Effective"... M-kay?

[mattclearing]

22. Shift my contributions to DFA.

We'll make DFA the new DNC.

If they won't facilitate the progressive revolution, we'll just have to do it ourselves.

The establishment people aren't getting any younger.

[NoPasaran]

23. Stick another pin into my Bob Shrum voodoo doll

If Dean is elected, I'll stick in two pins.

Other than that, I don't think it's going to have much of an impact on my life.

[Speck Tater]

27. Dean is not Skull and Bones.

Our Illuminati masters will never permit him to win. Any more than they permitted him to win in Iowa.

[ieoeja]

28. Vote for Dean in 2008 Presidential Election

Actually, it's a tough choice Deaniacs have: Dean for DNC Chair, or Dean for President. At first I was hoping he would lose his race for DNC Chair so he would run for President again in '08. But I really don't want to wait that long to see him shaking up the party.

Then today I read where Novak is reporting that many big money contributors have said they will abandon the party if Dean gets the Chair. So now I definitely want him in the Chair!


Disclaimer: I don't really think of myself as a Deaniac. But I have had two wishes for this party for many years. I want a pro-gun Democratic presidential candidate, and I want the party to open their eyes to the potential of driving a wedge between rural voters who vote Republican because they just want to be left alone (and Republicans claim to be anti-government) and rural voters who want to drive their morals down the first group's throat. Dean is the ONLY Democrat to address either wish, and he has done both.

[MadisonProgressive]

31. I'll get really pissy and whinney and go drink some beer.

If he wins, I'll still go drink some beer.

[txaslftist]

35. Support Dean for whatever he seeks next.

[realFedUp]

50. I won't go to Disney World

:-)

[Roxy66]

52. Not Dean!

Dean is just too "Now"....we need "New"! Rosenberg would be a great new voice for the Dems

[no name no slogan]

53. Absolutely nothing

I'll just keep on working with the Progressive Democrats of America, to reform the party from the grassroots, one election at a time.

Matter of fact, I'll keep doing that anyway. The DNC has little (if any) influence on state parties, and that's where real power can be gained.

Dean and the DNC can do whatever they want. I know where my time and talents are going.

www.progressivecaucus.net

[tsuki]

60. This is the first year that I have backed the party. Usually only

candidates of my choice. Since I backed Allen Boyd, and he jumped into Washington DC, full of vim and vigor, ready to aid the Repubs to dismantle Social Security, I have learned my lesson about Democrats.

I will stay with the party if Dean leads, because at least you know where he stands, else on a case by case basis.

[SmokingJacket]

66. Well, they won't get any of my money, for sure.

Howard Dean is a man of enormous integrity. Can you imagine??? He'll clean some serious house.

[MisterP]

67. DFA!

[kohodog]

68. Dean might be better off staying with DFA

We will need to prod the dems from within and without.

[UdoKier]

72. I will hold my breath until I die, then have a hissy fit and a tantrum.

Just kidding. What the hell am I supposed to do?

I'll be happy if he gets it, but one man alone will not be enough to save this party. The DINOs and spineless jellyfish in the congress need to either be purged or put in reeducation camps, or they will be the end of us.