O.K.....am I the only one here that thinks Dean is not the best choice?

[Roxy66]

Reading all of the blogs...it looks like Dean has a "Big" following.
I really think we need a different face for the Dems. I said this on another post...
DEAN IS TOO "NOW"..WE NEED "NEW"!!!!

[Walt Starr]

1. Oh brother!

I came in on this bullshit during the primaries.

:eyes:

In a word, YES. You are the only person who doesn't think Dean is the best choice.

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[Roxy66]

16. Please..not literally. Come on..just a figure of speech

[Walt Starr]

19. I call bullshit

This bullshit game was played time and again on DU during the primaries and I am GOD DAMNED SICK OF IT!

As far as I'm concerned, you meant it LITERALLY.

I also notice you refused to edit your "cult" insult out of your original post.

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[Roxy66]

31. Wow....I guess I shouldnt be surprised....we're all sensitive right now

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[Roxy66]

46. What exactly are you calling "Bullsh*t"? Having a different opinion?

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[Roxy66]

50. OMG...I changed it to "Big"...Please get beyond that. Address the point

I was making about DNC chair

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[Roxy66]

54. I was not deleted...I wont sware at people on-line...maybe off-line though

lol

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[Roxy66]

59. How would you know If that was my reply....it wasnt...If it was

I would like the moderator to show me

[Walt Starr]

60. Let's see, the only people in this entire subthread

have been you and I.

And since I alerted on the deleted post, I know what it was alerted over.

[Roxy66]

61. Please share...will you

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[Old and In the Way]

82. Yes it was. I read it.

Heck, you even admitt to it in posts 16 and 30.

If you can't be honest about your responses here, why should we take you seriously about your opinions on Dean?

[Roxy66]

83. yes..I did use the word cult in my first post..that was not deleted. It

wasnt the same post. Poor choice in wording...but, it seems to me it was taken as literal,which was not the way it was intended

[w13rd0]

39. "You're" or "You are" Scary, not "Your scary"...

...but thanks for playing.

[Roxy66]

48. Oh...Yeah.. Thanks lol

[Roxy66]

30. Hey...I changed it to "Big"...is that better..sorry

[Dookus]

2. No, I'm sure there are others....

but I support him for DNC chair. I think it's a good use of his talents.

[okieinpain]

3. dean lover here, and I don't think it's a cult. just people wanting

a change. out of all of the other candidates, I haven't seen anything that looks like a change.

[Roxy66]

12. "A change" ...is the key point. He would be viewed as a carry-over

from the election, by the "liberal media"

[okieinpain]

27. nope, he would be a change. the "liberal media" only says that

to try and get us to pick somebody else. repugs are afraid of dean, he' our van helsing.

[atreides1]

4. Answer This Question

Who in your opinion is the best choice and why?

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[wyldwolf]

6. I think he's the best choice of all who've thrown their hat in

Try to separate Dean the man from Dean the myth.

[4morewars]

7. Yes,

It would appear so.
Who do you think would be a better choice ?

[cdb]

17. Choice?

There is no best choice. We elect the people we have, not the people we wish for.

[4morewars]

22. Actually......

unless you are on the DNC, we don't elect anyone.

[Roxy66]

21. Rosenberg ...he has his own ideas...

Thats not to say I dont like Dean...i just think we need a new face. The media will never take him seriously. And like it or not..We need the media!!

[ldf]

38. sorry, but i have no intention

of letting the "media" decide for me.

and our support of dean is strong, some may call it cult-like.

but i think it is more an honest desire and need of some bullshit free honesty from our politicians.

so far, the doctor seems to be the only one that fits the bill.

screw the media.

the party members seem to already be there, but if the party leadership will get behind dean, i believe HE can handle the media.

[Roxy66]

44. "You" are not the issue...it's all of the stupid people who buy into

what the "liberal media" says

[crispini]

8. (Gets out popcorn) nt

[Clark2008]

69. Crispini, can you pass me some popcorn?

[cally]

10. I would be happy with him but I'm uncomfortable with

having a star lead the Democratic Party. I think the candidates should be the stars and the ones quoted and the DNC chair should focus on fundraising and grassroots activities. I don't think Dean is the best choice. I think he polarizes the party.

[Modem Butterfly]

13. I have a lot of reservations about Dean

But I will support whomever ultimately is in that position.

[Roxy66]

20. I will as well...just think it's scary to see the hate spew from our own

Democratic party when you dont fall in step

[Modem Butterfly]

33. We should take it as a warning

We can be just as intolerant of diversity as that other party, only in our case, our diversity is our strength.

[G_j]

36. Dean would be fine, certainly a major improvement

I'm not a "Deaniac" but I feel fairly strongly about this, given the choices. Calling people 'cultish' does not demonstrate much respect for those other opinions btw.

[Roxy66]

57. Bad choice...sorry. But it is amazing how supporters will attack those

who are not as dedicated

[Walt Starr]

58. And calling Dean supporters "cultists" isn't an attack?

:eyes:

Puleeze!

[G_j]

64. thanks

for editing your post.

In regard to your observation, obviously passions are running high, perhaps because the stakes are so high.

[ScreamingMeemie]

85. ROFL!!! As if supporting Dean were walking in step...

Heeheeehee. Thanks for massive giggle. Exactly what was your reason for posting here again??? :shrug:

[Roxy66]

86. Why would you ask that.?

[ScreamingMeemie]

87. Because I find your line of questioning and your reactions to the posts

of others to be extremely disingenuous. That's why. :shrug:

[Roxy66]

88. Is it completely inconcievable that someone other than a Repug

may not find Dean the best choice? Why is everyone so hostile to this question. I really am stumped. I love DU, and campaigned for Dean until it was time to help Kerry. I would do anything for my party, but, I feel like I've been demonized for suggesting something I feel is pretty tame. Help me understand..please

[2Design]

14. I sure there are a lot of people who don't want someone with a spine

and the 'balls' to stand up for the people - I have read a lot of that over the last few months here and on cnn and other news media who want to take down anyone who might actually be willing to fight for the people

we only had 13 dems in congress willing to vote against torture by voting against * lover -
even the shining star of the convention voted for torture

dean is the only willing to call things like they are - everyone else is a milktoast (sp)

[johncoby2]

15. yes.

[Smirking_Chimp]

18. He tells the truth, even when it's unpopular.

When the political winds were blowing the other way, and everybody was hyping the war, he stood up and told the truth, and people don't like that. In my book he's the only guy in the party with any real guts. In the end he was right, and everybody else is still trying to catch up.

[Peak_Oil]

34. My man.

Dean's the HNIC to me. He's the only one that spends less time lying than he does stealing money. The brutal kleptocracy in power right now, both Dem and Republican, just turn my stomach. I think Dean cares about us, the common people.

Well, I'm a common person. I'm not elite. Maybe all the rest of you guys are elite and I'm the only commoner here.

I could give a rat's ass about Kerry anymore. That spineless blowhard said he'd fight until the last vote was counted, and it looks to me like he quashed the investigation into who stole his own damn election! It's got to make sense to someone, but it doesn't make sense to me. If he would have fought, maybe he would have won. He's got enough damn money now to do whatever he wanted. He could have given us justice. Instead, he gave us the back of his jacket on his way out the door.

Remember that the next time somebody says Dean is polarizing. He's polarizing because he breathes life back into this whole thing. We can have a new Camelot if we want it! We can have it better than we had it before! Remember when we used to have strong unions? How about antitrust legislation? How about an FDA that is more focused on the health of the population than the profits of the meat-packing industry? How about environmental laws that were meant to preserve the wonderful gifts we have here to the seventh generation?

All that shit is destroyed. I want it back! Dean's got a spine, and I want him as high up in this whole thing as we can launch him. If it's head of the DNC, so be it. Next time, it'll be something better. Could you imagine Dean as Attorney General (if he was an attorney)? Oh, that would be beautiful.

[Smirking_Chimp]

53. I believe 95% Repubs and about 50% Dems are...

Corporate/War profiteers of some sort, that's why even though we are right, we are screwed in Congress. The Hawk dems know with Dean in charge, he will shine the light of truth on them, and clean up the Democratic Party.

[Radical Activist]

51. When was the war popular with the Democratic primary voters

who Dean was trying to get support from when he first spoke about against the war? I don't believe it ever was. You may notice that the more unpopular the war in Iraq became, the more Dean spoke out against it. Dean does tell the truth, after someone else tests the waters to make sure its safe.

[Peak_Oil]

55. Close enough for me.

I'll take it. Get the ball rolling with Dean, and keep it going til we can get somebody even more radical than him, and go from there. Just gotta get that ball moving! Once people see that they can make their lives better by voting in their own interests, we're on the way!

[Miami Liberal]

24. I'm sure there are others who agree with you

but I think the majority supports Dean as Chair. I sure as hell do. :)


http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,322950,00.jpg

Go Dean!

[Up2Late]

26. No

:wtf: But I still don't get why so many think he would be a BAD choice?

[sandnsea]

32. Better than some, as good as the rest

Not sure there's a better choice, all things considered. He's better than Rosenberg, by a long shot. And I don't even understand your last sentence. Who would be new? Maybe we could get Kleeb. :)

[Roxy66]

35. Negative points on Rosenberg?

[sandnsea]

62. Too far right

This could just as easily be the platform of John McCain. It doesn't present the real problems of globalization and trade, and terrorism, so it can't hardly be seen as advocating real solutions. I particularly hate his environmental statement, "leaving behind a beautiful America". That's been the problem with the Democratic platform on the environment, it's all about prettiness. If we don't change it to a survival issue, which it is, we'll never get the support we need or make the real changes that are necessary globally. But again, that requires confronting corporations, in a way Bobby Jr does, and I don't see Simon or his group group willing to do that. I'd be very disappointed if he wins.

http://www.simonforchair.org/ndn/agenda.html

[indigonation]

40. I thought Dean best, until he said he hated Repugs.....

That bothers me, because we have to win people over to our side. I hope what he said doesn't insult the moderates. Now I don't know what to think anymore.

[Old and In the Way]

42. He meant RepubliCONs.

[Dookus]

43. well i think that demonstrates

the concern people have. As I've said repeatedly, I support Dean for the job. But if his inflammatory statements need clarification, then that's a potential problem. He could've phrased that statement more eloquently.

[Old and In the Way]

45. Very true, not his shining moment.

But do we torpedo the guy for one bad turn of a phrase? I hope not. Certainly should amend his remarks....I threw up that "I meant RepubliCONs" as a way for him to drive his point home; that there is a subset of Republicans whose only principles seem to be making $ for their PAC contributors and maintaining power, at any cost.

[Dookus]

49. I understand

and I'm not suggesting torpedoing him for one statement. Unfortunately, it plays right into the stereotype many people have of him - that he goes off half-cocked. I appreciate that a lot of people actually LIKE that about him, but I understand the concern it causes in others.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

66. I think Dean is smart

I also think he shoots from the lip and will hurt as much as help. We have better, more savvy people to choose from. Let's do so.

[Roxy66]

70. exactly..n/t

[Old and In the Way]

41. He'd be a great choice.

From what see, he's far and away the favorite choice for the rank-and-file. That should tell you something. We need someone who knows elections, knows governing, knows organizing and fundraising...and has a great understanding of the value of the internet to further our message.

Go Howie!

[necso]

65. I have not been supporting Dean for Chair,

because I think that Dean can do more for us outside of the Party bureaucracy. And for the life of me, I can't figure out why Dean supporters want Dean for DNC Chair. Dean as Chair would:

1) Preclude Dean from running in 2008 (his own words -- and history).
2) Deny him a significant role in driving policy. (It is not the Chair's role to do so -- and any attempt by the Chair to do so is likely to be counterproductive -- at the very least.)
3) If history is any judge, would effectively put an end to Dean's political career.
4) Put DFA in nebulous territory. As Chair, Dean will not have the time to lavish on DFA, and any use of DFA that is not completely in line with Dean's Chair responsibilities will be seen as a conflict of interest and could cause problems.

So what is going on here? Some sort of payback? A need for recognition? Some kind of runner-up thing? Mass hypnosis? A masterful psy-ops campaign? -- It is quite beyond my understanding.

Dean would be a good Chair (in my opinion, he would prove to be a pragmatic and generally moderate Chair) -- the problem is then he will be able to be nothing else (politically). But if Dean and his people want him to have the Chair -- fine, give it to them -- game, set, match.

Now whom can I look to, that can start driving policy? Or do we plan on losing forever?

And it is clear to me that we have a huge problem with ego on our side too. But then, this has been the case for a long time. -- Life must be very easy when one has all the answers -- and obviously, all that we need to do is let such people dictate everything.

...Or maybe not.

Sigh.

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. Yeah, Mass hypnosis.

:eyes:

It's called changing a seriously dysfunctional party from the ground up. The party, the way it stands now, doesn't represent me-a freethinking, open minded, progressive-in any way shape or form. Dean, or no Dean, they better do something fast or lose me, and others like me for good. It's not about getting elected, it's about standing up for core Democratic values, so many of which many of our Senators are willing to compromise or turn their backs upon. That's not good enough for me. But I suspect you are one of those who couldn't care less what I've posted here anyway and only wish to get "a few licks" in. Good luck with that.

Thanks.

[lady lib]

74. Good points

And maybe the better question is where are Dean's talents best put to good use? DNC Chair? Senate? Prez?

[necso]

89. For the time being,

I would like to see Dean use DFA to energize a grassroots movement that forces the Party bureaucracy to cooperate or at least to do the same thing themselves -- if only because otherwise they will become irrelevant. (DFA could cooperate with other groups to achieve "critical mass" faster.) I would also like to see Dean take some of his ideas and come up with some (additional) progressive-populist policies (as I view some, at least, of his positions), "scream" his head off about them, get people fired up -- and force the Party to absorb some of these ideas (again, if only because otherwise they will become irrelevant). And I may be one of the few people who think that Dean got it exactly right when he spoke about that Confederate flag/truck thing -- because if we can even begin to touch people like that a teeny, weeny little bit, then we will have touched the majority of the American people a great deal -- which is exactly what I think that we need to do. But yeah, the idea was way over people's heads and maybe more careful words should have been used... I can understand this kind of misstep. Now, the practicality of "my plan" is debatable, this I will concede, but so is the idea of changing the Party by changing its "head". If we cancel these out, then there are still some pluses left on the no-Chair side (Dean can run in 2008 and can do and say anything he wants in the interim.)

And Dean's reward for all this should be commensurate with what he achieves -- and what is possible. I think that Dean would make a fine President, but what type of candidate we will need to run in 2008 is not clear to me. I supported Clark in the primaries (Dean rose to become my number 2) because I thought that the whole "national security" thing was essential -- and that Clark stood above all others in this area. (And I like Clark.) Certainly, Dean could get some nice fat cabinet position, with an assortment of minor posts to be filled at his discretion. (But I dislike speaking this frankly on a rather delicate subject -- and it is way too early to be thinking about deals.) In any case, I expect Dean, if not Chair, to be a force for change just on the grounds that he might run in 2008... and I would expect him to actually run -- which I see as good. (I think that DFA has already played no small part in making Democratic national politics an ongoing effort as opposed to a fits-and-starts one. Just look at who has new PACs or is maintaining old ones -- and there are probably more to come.)

Now, I realize that this would not be an easy row to hoe for Dean, and that the position of Chair makes resources available to him (etc). -- But what is he going to be able to actually achieve there, and at what cost (at least in terms of what might be done instead)?

If it has become some big symbolic thing to have Dean as Chair, then ok, I am not one to argue with the inevitable (when I don't expect it to do any real harm). But believe it or not (not you specifically), I was hoping for more from Dean than this -- 'cause I don't know where else to turn.

Oh well, someone is bound to pick up the ball and start running. And I could be wrong about what Dean can accomplish as Chair. But I am trying to look at the problem based on what I know of how things really work, not (solely) based on what I wish to have happen -- I gave up on that long years ago. And maybe Dean is essentially making an offer to the Party establishment to work strictly within the Party. I can respect that, but I don't see how this changes the outlook.

Personally, I have no particular loyalty to this candidate or that -- my obligations in this regard are over with for the time, and I am not rushing into any new ones. But what I do have loyalty to is an idea -- the idea that government must be made to serve the interests of the people, not just the interests of some elite (ours or theirs). I see nothing "unconservative" in this (it "conserves" some of what is -- or was -- great and good about America) -- and it would certainly be great "progress" to make it so.

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. Ummm, Dean is new. Dean is different. Dean is not a Washington insider.

How different can a face get? The grassroots are shouting. I will honestly say, if we get any "more of the same" in the DNC, I'm outta here. The Democratic Party needs to get realistic and stop looking after it's own wallet, and self interests, and start serving the people who support it... or pretty soon they'll be speaking to an empty room.

[Old and In the Way]

77. Welcome Back MrsGrumpy!

I gotta agree with your sentiments. This election for DNC is like none I can remember. I've never remembered the interest that this chair has generated. I think it's because there's so much at stake for the Party. If nothing else, the DNC had best factor the interests of the clear majority of the rank-and-file into their thinking because there may not be much of a rank-and-file to worry about if we choose someone who can't lead us like Dean.

They need to consider Dean's ability to energize and build a grassroots Party activism. This is particularly important for the 2006 midterms when we'll need to take back Congress and stop the Bush agenda dead in its tracks.

[ScreamingMeemie]

81. Thanks Old and In the Way. I agree. We've got Dean Dozen candidates

who have won in the deep South. This should be telling, and yet so many run scared. While I am pretty certain this thread was meant to be another stick poke, I couln't help but speak. We've all gotta keep speaking and drown out those few...:hi:

[RevolutionaryActs]

71. Hm.

[name not needed]

72. Don't hog the popcorn!

:D

[JohnKleeb]

75. sweetie popcorn is gross!

[Roxy66]

73. so....everybody wants dean?

[Roxy66]

76. I'm really disappointed by the reations to my question .....I thought my

party to be more open-minded.

[RetroLounge]

78. Yeah, whatever...

B'bye

:eyes:

RL

[Stop_the_War]

79. Dean is openly supportive of gay rights...

For that he gets my support...

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Old and In the Way]

84. Welcome aboard.

Care to share why "nothing could be worse than Dean". I know it's an opinion, but we tend to put more credance on posts that include a poster's reasonings.

I'll be looking forward to your thoughts, we seldom have Anchormen posting here.

[alittlelark]

90. The 'ONLY ONE'... doubt it. But you are in a tiny minority.

I mean, really, really, really, really, really, really, really tiny minority.

I am with the majority on this question.