In tonight's debate, will Lieberman attack Dean?

[Larkspur]

All of the Dem Prez candidates will be at the Congressional Black Caucus sponsored debate on Fox tonight http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96568,00.html .

Hope Al Sharpton follows Lieberman at the closing remarks section. Slap that whiny donkey, Al!

How long do you think it will be before Lieberman attacks Dean tonight and on what issues do you think that he will attack Dean on?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. Yeah, he's doing Kerry's dirty work.

Maybe.

If he goes after Dean on foreign policy this time, it will give Dean a chance to clear up some confusion on Israel/Palestine and the settlements.

[jos]

3. Agree

And Dean will do some backtracking, unfortunately.

[blm]

4. Except Lieberman attacks Kerry, too.

But, his attacks never stick it seems.

[Larkspur]

7. That's because Kerry isn't the front runner

It's a badge of honor for Dean to be taking the pot shots from the former leader in NH and the current leader in national polls. But that won't stop us Deanocrats from shooting back.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. but there's a good reason they will avoid attacking Dean

which is it "consecrates" him as the front runner. This is the mantle the candidates do not want to bestow upon Dean.

[uptohere]

2. a different slant

Dean is liable to be looking for opportunities to whack Joe. If this occurs then Joe "takes the high road" for contrast. If it doesn't then he largely repeats what he did last time.

I think it comes down to him playing the thing as it evolves. He's an old enough hand to accomplish that.

[Patriot_Spear]

5. Probably- I despise Lieberman.

What a tool- DINO POS.

[dolstein]

6. If Lieberman's a donkey, then Dean's an ass

NT

[Merlin]

9. The problem with your logic, Dolstein, is Lieberman is NOT a donkey.

He's a damn elephant attempting to pass himself off as a donkey.

(No offense.)

[IrateCitizen]

12. Good one, Merlin!

Once again, I must bring up the fact that when Lieberman defeated Lowell Weicker for Senate, it was a rare case in which a Democrat defeated a Republican and the seat actually moved slightly to the RIGHT.

Even dolstein has acknowledged this by stating, "Weicker was not that much more liberal than Lieberman."

In short, we can do much better than choosing someone from the center-right to represent our party against the far right.

[blm]

15. Lieberman and Dean are both centrist Dems. The difference is

that for this campaign Lieberman moved to the right rhetorically, while Dean coopted Nader's rhetoric from 2000.

[TheBigGuy]

17. more or less agree.

Also Dean took an antiwar stand, which brought him alot of early support.

[JNelson6563]

20. yeah, like that

focus group of millions of Americans. Many were angry about those yes votes on the Iraq res. I guess they're still not over it.....

Julie

[TLM]

23. A lot of dems were looking for someone to represent them...

They did not want war, yet their representitves in congress voted for the war in Iraq... they turned to Dean because he was standing up and calling this war for what it was back in january and febuary.

Dean was the only mainstream guy who was out their against the war, while guys like Kerry and Lieberman were falling overthemselves trying to kiss W's ass and vote for his agenda.

They thought that this war would boost their chanses, and now that they are finding that it hurt them, they have no other option but to attack Dean.

[Wetzelbill]

58. Yup, these two really are not all that different

I think that you always hate the one you love. Look for a Lieberman-Dean marriage sometime soon.

[TheBigGuy]

16. Lieberman is sure 'nuff a Donkey

His voting record, as repeatedly posted one this board by others, puts him squarely in the center-left of US politics.

Yet there is this massive denial about this.

go figure.

[IrateCitizen]

21. More important than percentages is his voting on specific bills

That is the part that is often left out of the equation. Joe Lieberman has shown his propensity to consistently side with corporate interests time after time -- such as his role in killing accounting reforms in 1997 that would have gone a long way toward preventing the defrauding of employees and pension funds that took place with the collapse of Enron, Tyco, WorldCom, Arthur Andersen, etc.

While this kind of action may not even show up as a blip on the figures trotted out time after time on these boards, it sure as hell has a big effect -- and not one that is in keeping with the traditions of "center left" politics.

He's an elephant dressed up as a donkey, and if he's in the "center" of US politics, it is only because the discourse has been shifted so far to the right, overall -- abetted by people like Sen. Lieberman.

[Larkspur]

22. And don't foget Holy Joe's support of stock options for execs

even when the corporate scandals broke into the public last year.

[IrateCitizen]

24. Brace yourself for the charge of anti-Semitism from you-know-who...

... for having referred to Lieberman as "Holy Joe". :nuke:

But you're 100% right on the stock options thing -- a payoff to his contributors from Silicon Valley.

[TLM]

25. I do not give a damn what he voted for 10 years ago...

when he's been voting for Bush's shit for the last 3 years.

[Walt Starr]

8. Is the Pope Polish?

Do bears shit in the woods?

[Jacobin]

10. Lieberman is a spoiler for the Repukes

tearing down what is left of the Dem party from the inside before he bolts and goes independent or repuke.

If he weren't so disgusting and dangerous he would be laughable.

[Forkboy]

13. I hope so

Hearing Joe get booed warms the heart.

[TheBigGuy]

14. So this is on Fox?

Sort of suprsied to hear they are giving face time to the Democratic field.

[David Zephyr]

69. And Tony Snow, Registered Republican, Will Give the Analysis Afterwards

n/t

[0007]

78. Not to me Tony Snow won't!

I can think for myself.

I'll watch and mute every commerical or anything those fucking crock shuckers have to say from Fox News. Can't understand why c-span isn't covering this debat.

[David Zephyr]

82. But How Do You Really Feel?

It is so surreal that Tony Snow would have the Post Debate Analysis. Of course, I won't watch it either, you are not alone.

The bigger question is why Democrats continue to give Fox any credibility at all by appearing on its cable news network. Roger Ailes must really enjoy how he can lure them to him with a camera.

[wrkclskid]

18. No Lieberman will not attack

I went to his HQ the day after the debate reporting for my school paper, and he was getting negative calls about it, a few I fielded to help out the very nice (and cute :-) ) receptionist. With one call, a curiosity struck, and I aksed the caller if he was going to call Kucinich, who also took a shot at Dean ("Vermont doesn't have a military") and to criticize Dean for his whole campaign of criticizing the other Democrats, he stuttered and said he would hae to think about it. I am not a Lieberman supporter, but damn, that hypocrisy is annoyoing, if you are mad at attacks amongst other dems, then get mad at every dem who attacks.

[Sean Reynolds]

19. But Dean also apologized for his attacks early on.

Today he doesn't attack the other candidates. At least not on a personal level.

[TLM]

26. Did Dean ever make personal attacks?

All I've seen is Dean calling the other dems on their voting records, supporting the war, voting for the 350 billion tax cut, voting for the no child left behind act, voting for the patriot act... etc.

Calling these guys on the fact they've been voting with the republicans for the last three years isn't a personal attack.

[blm]

28. He was cheered on for months by many here.

Not caring in the destructive, dishonest nature of the attacks, but, reveling in their beneficity for Dean's glorification.

[ibegurpard]

31. Actually, BLM, the hostility and antagonism was in place long before

Dean came along and tapped into it. He was cheered on because he was giving a voice to that frustration.

[blm]

40. Even though he didn't really share that same philosophy

of those whose rhetoric he coopted.

His philosophy was always stick to the center to find the compromise, often leaning to the right. A tactic he used for his entire political career, and if people at DU had paid attention to that career, Dean would have been categorized with Zell Miller here.

[ibegurpard]

41. Maybe...maybe not

but that's beside the point that I was making...which was that frustration and antagonism towards Democrats who weren't forcefully speaking out against Bush existed long before Dean came along and tapped into it.

[blm]

49. I'm well aware of that...and I was part of it.

I'm just one who favors scrutiny of actual records and comments in one's political career, over the campaign rhetoric that only appeared after the antiwar movement grew.

[TLM]

53. Dean was against the war from the start.

And he's always been a populist.

And what part of his record are you referring to... the part where he signed civil unions into law, got health care for all the folks in his state, the part where he put forth programs that cut child sexual abuse by 70%?

You attack Dean for compromising despite the great progressive results he's gotten, yet you applaud Kerry for his compromises that got us war, recession, the patriot act etc.

[TLM]

54. The center in vermont is middle left for the rest of the country BLM.

Dean was against the war that Kerry voted for, yet you attack Dean for being too close to the center in his voting record. Yet Kerry over the past three years has voted for almost every piece of crap Bush sent them.

And for the PBA ban he was too chickenshit to cast a no vote, so he sat out the vote.


Dean stood up for those of us who were left behind by guys like Kerry who were more interested in their career than doing what was right.

[TLM]

32. BLM you were in here screaming and crying about Dean...

you said he was lying about other Dems and that nobody else had made any attacks, yet when I looked into it, again I found it was you who was lying.

Not only was Dean was correct in his statements, his so called destructive attacks consisted of pointing out what the other dems were voting for, that they were voting for almost every piece of shit W sent through congress. From the war and the patriot act to the no child left behind act and the 350 billion tax cut amendment.

The worst thing Dean did was dismiss the lower tier candidates like Sharpton, and Kucinich by not including them when he made a couple general statements about the other dems supporting the war. .

And Kerry had been firing off much worse attacks than anything Dean had said, and you just ignored that and went right on attacking Dean.

For christ's sake BLM, Kerry's camp attacked Dean for wanting the UN behind the war in Iraq, and said that because Dean wanted the UN behind us, he wasn't a serious candidate. Now Kerry has switched again and is all for the UN, now that we're in Iraq and over our heads and he attacked Dean to try and make him look soft on defense.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/25/opinion/lynch/main541905.shtml

But the reaction to Dean hit a nerve in the Kerry camp. Kerry's campaign manager, Jim Jordan, snapped at Dean's insistence on getting U.N. backing (a position supported by three-quarters of Democrats and 53 percent of Independents). "Gov. Dean, in effect, seems to be giving the U.N. veto power over national security decisions of the United States. That's an extraordinary proposition, one never endorsed by any U.S. president or serious candidate for the presidency," he told the Associated Press' Ron Fournier.

[IrateCitizen]

34. 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

:nuke:

[burr]

36. 3-2-1...

contact!

[blm]

42. Wrong...Dean accidently made a statement

that set a new precedent for ANY president when he said that he would ONLY go into war with UN approval. He later backpedaled and said of course he would do whatever is necessary to defend the US even without UN approval.

Dean lied when he told audiences that the other candidates voted for Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest. None of them did. Here's the proof of his lie.


http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/local2003/012303dean_2002.shtml

I can't wait for those four guys from Congress to come up here and explain to us why they wanted to raise your property taxes after they supported a tax cut for the wealthiest people in America," he said.

Dean also criticized his opponents for voting to give Bush a "blank check" on military intervention in Iraq - and, now, changing their tune on the issue.

"Today, they're running around telling you folks they're all anti-war," he said. (Later, he acknowledged that Lieberman's vote was consistent with the senator's comparatively "hawkish" position on Iraq.) "We're never going to elect a president that does those things. If I voted for the Iraq resolution, I'd be standing in favor, supporting it right now in front of you."

Dean said he would have voted instead for the Biden-Lugar resolution, which he said supported disarming Saddam using multilateral action, and which did not call for a "regime change."

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ibegurpard]

47. it's the old "throw enough shit and some of it's bound to stick" tactic

n/t

[blm]

52. Dean lied.

The Dems wanted TARGETED taxcuts for the poor and middle class. Dean charged that they voted for Bush's taxcuts for the wealthiest. NONE of them did.

Sorry your comprehension skills are so poor you are unable to discern Dean's lies. Um...I guess that make you an enabler to his lies.

[TLM]

55. What they "wanted" means absolutly dick, BLM.

What they voted for was a 350 billion tax cut that went mostly to the richest americans in a time when we couldn't afford ANY tax cut, let alone a 350 billion one. As Dean rightly pointed out, they made the argument "how much" instead of "should we have a tax cut."

Now you lied and said that the dems did not vote for this, accused Dean of making it up. Why would you lie when you know the voting record is easy to find?




U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 108th Congress - 1st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate


Vote Summary

Question: On the Amendment (Breaux Amdt. No. 339, as Modified )
Vote Number: 76 Vote Date: March 21, 2003, 02:52 PM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Amendment Rejected
Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 339 to S.Con.Res. 23
Statement of Purpose: To reduce tax cut to $350 billion.
Vote Counts: YEAs 38 NAYs 62
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State


Alphabetical by Senator Name

Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea

[blm]

59. That's NOT what Dean said.

Dean said they voted for BUSH'S taxcuts in 2001 for the wealthiest. NONE of them did.

Dean's remarks were from January, 2003. Your votes are from March, 2003. And the only reason they voted on that amendment in 2003 was so that the higher number would fail. They succeeded then voted AGAINST the 350 billion taxcut, too. Get your votes straight BEFORE you attack.

[TLM]

62. That amendment was to Bush tax cut BLM.

You are just making yourself look foolish now by trying to split hairs to cover for your lies and damage control spin for Kerry, BLM.

The amendment that they voted for was an amendment to Bush 2nd tax cut bill in 2003.

They did vote for Bush's taxcuts for the richest americans, 350 billion worth.

[blm]

65. HAHAH. Can you READ?

Dean's statements were on JANUARY 23, 2003 about the 2001 taxcuts. The stats you posted were from MARCH, 2003.

Let us know when the shuttle lands.

[TLM]

71. BLM, the march date is when the amendment was voted on...

not when it was introduced nor discussed before the vote.


You are grasping at straws.

[blm]

77. You're acting batty. Dean criticized the 2001 vote

in his speech last January. You're the one mixing up two different taxcuts and calling me a liar.


http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/local2003/012303dean_2002.shtml

I can't wait for those four guys from Congress to come up here and explain to us why they wanted to raise your property taxes after they supported a tax cut for the wealthiest people in America," he said.

[TLM]

80. BLM, look at the record... when was the 700 billion tax cut put forth?

Oh that's right it was Jan 8th 2003 when Bush introduced his jobs and growth tax cuts... to which dems in the senate responded with their 350 billion amendment.


When was the idea of the 350 billion amendment put forth?

When were they being debated?

Dean's comments were from about a month and a half prior to the VOTE on the tax cuts he was talking about.

You act like the fact the vote took place after Dean's comments, means he was talking about the 2001 tax cut, not the one being debated at the time, which was voted on only a month or so after his comments?

And you call me batty?

[blm]

84. Fine. But look at Dean's PAST TENSE use of the word "SUPPORTED"

He was referencing the 2001 taxcut because he said it resulted in the raising of taxes in NH which the 2003 taxcut could NOT have done in Jan. 2003.

[TLM]

88. Once again, BLM you are wrong, and lying

The property tax issue was because of the no child left behind bill... an unfunded mandate that Kerry voted for.

"Our candidates think the best way to get elected is to talk to everybody about voting for things like the leave-every-school board-behind education bill, which is going to cost the New Hampshire taxpayers $109 million," he said. ". . . . I can't wait for those four guys from Congress to come up here and explain to us why they wanted to raise your property taxes after they supported a tax cut for the wealthiest people in America," he said."


Pretty clear to me, BLM. Did you even read the whole quote before coming up with your new lie to try and prop up your attacks on Dean?

[blm]

90. You are hopeless. You CANNOT ADMIT

that Dean was talking about the 2001 taxcut, the ONLY taxcut that Bush had passed that was voted on when he was quoted back on January 23, 2003.

Enjoy your wall that you erected.

[TLM]

92. What's to admit... you're making it up.

First you say the dates prove it was about the 2001 tax cuts, then I prove that Dean's comments were made after Bush put forth his tax plan for 2003 and dems put forth their 350 billion version.

Then you lie about the quote and say Dean was referring to property tax losses due to the 2001 tax cuts, so I proved that in fact he was talking about the no child left behind act.

Then you try to fall back on the tense of the word supported... even though Dean made the statement after the Dems had stated their support for the 350 billion version of the Bush 2003 tax cuts.

"that Dean was talking about the 2001 taxcut, the ONLY taxcut that Bush had passed that was voted on when he was quoted back on January 23, 2003."

Bush and the Dems both put forward tax plans in first two weeks of jan 03, BLM. You know this, I just posted the info.

Honestly how can you think anybody is going to buy this BS claim that somehow Dean, in the middle of the tax cut debate going on in January after Bush and Dems put forth tax cut plans for 2003... that Dean when talking about the four dems' support for tax cuts, was talking about tax cuts from two years prior and not the current tax cuts the dems were supporting?

[TLM]

73. Nice edit, BLM....

"Dean said they voted for BUSH'S taxcuts in 2001 for the wealthiest. NONE of them did."

That's not what the quote shows. Please site where Dean stated 2001?




"Dean's remarks were from January, 2003. Your votes are from March, 2003."

Yeah, and check this neat idea out BLM... debate ususaly comes BEFORE THE VOTE.



"And the only reason they voted on that amendment in 2003 was so that the higher number would fail. They succeeded"

No they didn't. The 700 billion cut passed. All their amendment did was make the argument about how much the tax cut should be instead of should there be a tax cut at all.


" then voted AGAINST the 350 billion taxcut, too."

They voted for the 350 billion amendment, I just posted the results of that vote.


"Get your votes straight BEFORE you attack."

I think you need to take your own advice.

[SweetZombieJesus]

76. How the hell is she not tombstoned yet?

This is, what, the umpteen millionth time she's DELIBERATELY lied about Dean, and she's still free to spread her venom? Doesn't outright lying count as disruption, or are we allowing Rush and his ilk to set the standard for discourse around here now?

You know, if I started a thread saying that Kerry is a baby-eating cannibal, I'd get tombstoned. BLM makes shit up, and she's still here.

Congrats BLM, you're now the "liberal" Anne Coulter.

[Woodstock]

85. She's been on my ignore for a while

along with anyone who any one of these applies to:

1) has an irrational hatred of a candidate

2) has a crush on a candidate

3) thinks giving backhanded chickenshit compliments to a candidate prior to or after slamming him for the 100th time qualifies them as being "fair" - then gets all indignant when someone calls them on it

4) can't handle disagreement without getting outraged or pouting (I'd rather it was outraged than pouting, nothing is worse than pouting)

5) has Republican views

6) is a political newbie but doesn't want to learn

7) is nasty on a regular basis (we all have off days)

Life is short, I have better things to do. And the neat thing is, these threads are kind of funny where you guess the outrageous or drop dead boring/silly thing they just said.

[TLM]

89. Good practice though...

Since the repukes will be leveling the exact same kind of made up shit at Dean when he gets the nomination.


Good to get in the habbit and have the fact handy... thanks to BLM I now have a nice little doc file and some bookmarked threads with great factual sourced refutations of her made up bullshit attacks.


Should prove a valuable resource later in the Dean campaign.

[JNelson6563]

94. reading comprehension

is a problem here at DU. I have noticed that some supporters of candidates claim that the Iraq resolution was *not* a blank check for the Simian to go to war but a document that would make sure he went to the UN for help. BWAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA!!!

Ever read that thing? <snort> The first few sentences obliterates that sorry-ass statement.

Even Kerry and Gephardt don't use that miserable failure of a defense, they are more fond of the "we had to show support to Chimpy so the UN would know his weren't empty threats". Toss in an occassional "I trusted the pResident to do the right thing" and VOILA!! Still lame but better than misrepresenting the resolution.

Now I see the behavior in this thread from blm who recently inferred that I and other Dean supporters are displaying nothing short of Freeper mentality by supporting Dean.

I urge all to read this thread and note the projecting goin' on in that statement.

It saddens me that the behavior of many during this primary season has resulted in my loss of respect/regard for some of my fellow DUers.

Julie

[blm]

79. You're wrong. The last taxcut that passed was 350 billion.

You have two taxcuts mixed up, TLM.

And Dean's remarks in January said they supported Bush's taxcut for the wealthiest. He was specifically talking about 2001, because the new congress was just coming in that January and hadn't gotten to the new taxcuts yet.

[TLM]

81. Took all of about 5 minutes on google to find proof you're lying.

"And Dean's remarks in January said they supported Bush's taxcut for the wealthiest. He was specifically talking about 2001, because the new congress was just coming in that January and hadn't gotten to the new taxcuts yet. "

Bush announced his jobs and growth tax plan Jan 2003, BLM.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/02/politics/printable535029.shtml

Bush Lays Out His Stimulus Plan
CHICAGO, Jan. 7, 2003


President Bush put forward a "growth and jobs" economic stimulus plan on Tuesday that would provide tax relief to an estimated 92 million Americans by accelerating income tax rate cuts, wiping out all federal taxes on stock dividends paid to investors and boosting the child tax credit by $400 per child.

"I proposed a bold plan because the need for this plan is urgent and I urge the Congress to act swiftly and pass this bill," Mr. Bush told business leaders at the Economic Club in Chicago.

Mr. Bush said his $674 billion, ten-year plan would reduce taxes for all Americans who pay them, brushing aside Democratic criticism that the plan favored mainly the wealthy.


<snip>


On Monday, the Democrats offered a rival plan that would expand unemployment benefits by 26 weeks and give all workers a refundable income tax rebate of up to $300 per person or $600 per working couple. States would get $31 billion for homeland security, highway, Medicaid and unemployment insurance programs.

The Democratic plan would not eliminate the taxes on stock dividends, which is the biggest element of the president's plan, and is estimated to cost $364 billion over 10 years.

[blm]

83. Dean said "supported" past tense not "supports" present tense.

I concede I got the detail of when they were discussing the 2003 taxcut wrong, but it still doesn't matter in regard to what Dean was referencing in his speech, which was the 2001 taxcut.

[TLM]

87. LOL!!!!! Oh good god BLM....

after your BS about the dates is shot down, your lie about the vote is proven wrong, now you're hanging your whole attack on the tense of Dean's statement? Boy, your stories change more than Kerry's

He made the statement in late January after the dems put forth their version of Bush’s tax cut plan. Dean was talking about what was going on right when he made the statement.

Are you seriously trying to claim Dean was not referring to what the dems were doing when he made the statement, but was instead ignoring what the dems were doing currently and was commenting on the tax cut from 2001?

And you call me batty?

[blm]

91. You're just wrong, TLM.

You can't admit that on Jan.23, 2003 that Dean was talking about taxcuts from 2001, NOT taxcuts that HADN'T EVEN BEEN VOTED ON.

btw...NONE of the Dem candidates voted FOR that 2003 taxcut, either. They only voted for that initial amendment to force the GOP down from the original 700 billion.

[TLM]

93. I can not admit what is not true, BLM.

No matter how many times you repeat it, you can not change the facts.

In early Jan 03 Bush introduces plans for massive tax cuts.

In early Jan 03 Democratic leaders in congress come out in support of their own 350 billion version of those tax cuts that still go mostly to the rich.

In late Jan 03 as tax plan debate abounds Dean is criticizing dems for supporting tax cuts that go mostly to the rich.

Yet you claim that Dean is talking about the tax cuts from 2001... just so you can claim Dean is lying. Why would Dean lie about Dems supporting tax cuts two years prior to his statement, when he could factually point out the dems were supporting tax cuts two fucking WEEKS prior to his statement?

"NOT taxcuts that HADN'T EVEN BEEN VOTED ON."

Earth to BLM, debate takes place BEFORE the vote.

You are clearly ignoring the obvious truth, that Dean made a comment in late Jan 03 about the fact dems had expressed support for a 350 billion tax cut in early Jan 03. You are taking a comment from Dean that was clearly directed at the current tax proposals being debated, and you are flat out lying about the context to try and say that Dean was dishonestly claiming dems supported the 2001 tax cuts. The only reason you're trying to push this ridiculous claim is to try and prop up your attacks on Dean's honesty.

However the facts are clear that it is your honesty that is in question.

I wonder BLM… this one was one of your first attacks on Dean, wasn’t it? That Dean had lied and said Dems supported the 2001 tax cuts. I never bothered to dig into your claim then, but after seeing you lie over and over again, edit quotes, and edit your story every time I posted a fact that disproved your rhetoric, I decided to look into it.

And sure enough, this attack on Dean, one of your first ones posted to DU, turns out to be just as big a pile of bullshit as the rest of your attacks on Dean.

[SweetZombieJesus]

66. Gee, I kind of wish I didn't have blm on ignore now

Shameless, bald-faced liars always give me a chuckle.

[TLM]

74. Ahhh no you don't...

besides you've seen all this crap before, there's nothing new being posted... just repeats of the same tired crap.

[blm]

75. Maybe you should

try taking me off ignore and read the Lounge posts about your recent heartbreaking loss, SZJ.

Your benevolence towards others is heartwarming.

[Julien Sorel]

39. He doesn't need to attack them now.

He got mileage out of attacking them, now his campaign is in good shape, of course he wants to play nice.

[burr]

29. Agreed...

This time Dean will throw the first punches. And whiney ole Joe will run crying and screaming out of the debate hall, to his Newt and mammy. Don't feel anger, feel sympathy! :nopity:

[TLM]

30. I find it odd that Kerry and Lieberman...

the two who have made the worst attacks on other dems so far, have supporters who are the biggest crybabies about it when their guy gets attacked.

Dean points out that Kerry voted for the 350 tax cut amendment or the patriot act or the no child left behind act, that he sat out the PBA ban vote, or that he voted for the war... and his supporters throw a fit. Yet Kerry attacked Dean back in February for saying he'd insist on having the UN behind any troop action in Iraq, and now we're seeing Dean was right.

Call Lieberman on his votes for the war or the patriot act or any of the crap he's been doing over the last few years... and you get accused of being an anti-Semite.

[blm]

43. Look at Dean marching next to sign equating Bush and Kerry.

Yeah....poor Dean gets attacked so unfairly when all he really wants is the opportunity to bash the others with NO reciprocation. WAAAAAA.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=33667&mesg_id=33679&page=

[TLM]

48. BWAHAHAHAAH are you really this desperate?

That you would try to equate an official statement from the Kerry campaign with someone in a crowd of Dean supporters havign a sign you don't like?

[blm]

51. Dean attacks for 8 months and you say "GREAT!"

YOU are the one whining about attacks on poor, wittle Dean. YOU are the one who is desperate to protect your ill-behaved candidate by blaming others.

[TLM]

61. I'm simply pointing out the fact that you lied BLM

You lied when you claimed Dean was the only guy attacking other dems. So I pointed out Kerry vicious attacks from as early as feb.

You lied when you said Dean made up the fact that Kerry voted for the 350 billion tax cut amendment. So I posted the voting records.


Now all you've got is to try and act as if someone's sign in a crowd of Dean supporters is the same thing as an official statement from Kerry's campaign.

Face it, Dean's attacks have been valid and truthful, while Kerry's have been viscious attempt to spin Dean's words to paint him as anti-military.

I mean how can you defend this shit, BLM?



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/28/politics/main551359.shtml

Kerry spokesman Chris Lehane issued a statement in response to Dean's comments in an article posted Monday on Time.com. "We have to take a different approach to diplomacy," the former Vermont governor was quoted as saying during a campaign stop in New Hampshire. "We won't always have the strongest military."

"Howard Dean's stated belief that the United States won't always have the strongest military raises serious questions about his capacity to serve as commander in chief," Lehane said. "No serious candidate for the presidency has ever before suggested that he would compromise or tolerate an erosion of America's military supremacy."

[blm]

64. You are blowing smoke and mirrors.

Kerry was being attacked by Dean with LIES like "Bushlite" when he was recovering from cancer surgery. Dean started Jan. 23. Noone retaliated for two months.

Cry me a river.

[TLM]

67. Bushlite isn't a lie... it is a fact.

"Kerry was being attacked by Dean with LIES like "Bushlite" when he was recovering from cancer surgery."

Didn't stop the Kerry camp from attacking.


"Dean started Jan. 23. Noone retaliated for two months."

And what attacks were those? Attacking Kerry for his support of Bush's war, and saying crap like this.


Kerry Said “If You Don’t Believe In The U.N. ... Or You Don’t Believe Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn’t Vote For Me.” (Ronald Brownstein, “On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd,” Los Angeles Times, 1/31/03)


Kerry Said Leaving Saddam Hussein “Unfettered With Nuclear Weapons Or Weapons Of Mass Destruction Is Unacceptable.” (Jill Lawrence, “War Issue Challenges Democratic Candidates,” USA Today, 2/12/03)




BLM, Kerry has supported Bush, voted for Bush agenda, and for that he gets called...

[wrkclskid]

38. Dean claimed to be the one Democrat

"I intend to represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" Nice line, I bet Wellston thoguht so too when he came up with it. The thing is, every candidate out their has a progressive record and he was wrong to calim he was the only one. Also, Holy Joe's attack was an attack on his policy, it was blunt but he simply stated that he felt Dean's trade policy would lead to a depression, nothing personal about Dean.

[Mass_Liberal]

60. Dean was referring to

the fact that other democrats voted for the war and other Bush bills when he came out stongly against them when he said "i'm here to represent the democratic wing of the democratic party."


Plus, seeing everyone on DU fight 24/7 has shaken me, can I get some affirmation that we will all vote for the nominee?





:dem:

[wrkclskid]

70. Yes, every nominee

And while he is not my choice, I will be glad to have Lieberman as President, but then what do I know, I don;t think he is a war criminal Zionist monster?

Also, the war is one issue, one could look at Dean's record as Gov. and make a case he isn't from "the democratic wing" either. But I will not make such a case. He is a democrat and they are all good dems. One common enemy, GWB!!!!!

[CentristDemocrat]

27. FOX: "Democrat Presidential Debate"

I wonder if any of the candidates will address the blatant bias in the TITLE OF THE PROGRAM?

[TheBigGuy]

33. they are calling it that.

I have to say if a candidate DOES mention that he or she will definetly get some closer scrutiny from undecided Democratic Party member.

[Demobrat]

35. Lieberman and Kerry will both attack Dean.

Desperate people do desperate things.

[ButterflyBlood]

37. of course that little bastard will

give it up Lieberman. You aren't worthy to shine Dean's shoes.

[fla nocount]

44. Yup. Lots of right-wingers make themselves taller by striving to make

others appear smaller. It's a defense mechanism for those who suffer from SMD, Short Mens' Disease, there is no cure. Come on guys, Lieberman should be a subject of pity not derision. Why do you think so many issues go over his head?

[TioDiego]

45. I wonder if Kucinich will do his "Hellooo" thing again

[fla nocount]

63. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck..........

The DLC, DNC and like affiliations are dead meat in the up-coming elections. It's almost possible to guess each candidate's affiliations by the tone and content of their quack. I think America will vote for something DIFFERENT. Dare to be strange Dr. Dean.

[quinnox]

50. I expect so

Lieberman seemingly has decided to go after Dean hammer and tongs.

He will probably use the 'Dean depression' line again, and for sure I bet he will attack Dean over his recent comment about not taking sides on Israel.

[DemVet]

56. Actually, I hope they all...

...start attacking each other, along with Bush. Granted you can't let Dorky off the hook, but it's time to start settling the field and pruning out the candidates that don't have a chance. I don't really know who that will be, but it's time for all Dems to start moving in the direction of the eventual nominee.

[Mass_Liberal]

57. Lieberman is a free-lance conservative

he attacks people for himself, not any other candidate. He needs to attack people because of his lack of momentum. I hope Dean does well tonight. Good luck though, to all candidates. If dems could get more black voters, it would make us all the stronger.

Peace:dem: Dean 04

[PAMod]

68. He'll attack Dean and Kerry

Dean is pounding Lieberman in Iowa & NH, and running neck & neck in SC; Kerry is besting him in Iowa, NH & nationally.

At this point, the only way Lieberman can win is if he can put the "front runners" down.

[Capn Sunshine]

72. Count on it.

Unless he gets aggressive, he's all but toast. Who better to attack than the perceived front runner?

I recall his attacking Kerry on the same terms.


Fox will probably feed him some questions, hoping to get the flash of the fabled Dean temper.

[Woodstock]

86. Yes, Lieberman will attack Dean and so will Kucinich

and hopefully Dean will handle it just as skillfully as he did last time.

I lost respect for both of them when they did this last time.

My hope is, this turns into a rousing, united, BUSH BASHING FEST!!!