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Wolfowitz and the Werewolves: Question for WWII vets

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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:11 PM
Original message
Wolfowitz and the Werewolves: Question for WWII vets
Wolfie keeps bringing up the Werewolves who were supposed to be sabotaging stuff in Germany after the war.

My uncle was in Germany during the surrender and doesn't remember any such thing. Does anybody who served in Germany during the surrender and the aftermath remember any such thing?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not a WWII Vet myself...so I have no data
But I'll keep this kicked because I'd like to see if any DU old-timers can take a whack at this.

My guess is you won't find anyone to corroborate Wolfie because it's a Bushevik Lie, like all the rest.

(probably wrapped around a tiny grain of truth, like such a project existed but never got off the ground in a postwar demoralized Germany)
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think they are lying, too...
but it would be nice to get the vets to call these creeps out on this nonsense.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. There was such a thing
but servicemen werent being killed so often and many Germans werent hostile to the Americans. Rummy does tell a bit of truth about the Werewolves but they were nothing like what we hear about now. I am not a vet duh but I know a bit about the war.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. CSM has info:
Edited on Tue Sep-09-03 04:22 PM by TacticalPeak
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Recent Slate article
From "Condi's Phony History"
http://slate.msn.com/id/2087768/

<snip>

In practice, Werwolf amounted to next to nothing. The mayor of Aachen was assassinated on March 25, 1945, on Himmler's orders. This was not a nice thing to do, but it happened before the May 7 Nazi surrender at Reims. It's hardly surprising that Berlin sought to undermine the American occupation before the war was over. And as the U.S. Army's official history, The U.S. Army in the Occupation of Germany 1944-1946, points out, the killing was "probably the Werwolf's most sensational achievement."

<snip>
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ScrewyRabbit Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. And please note THIS from the article:
"According to America's Role in Nation-Building: From Germany to Iraq, a new study by former Ambassador James Dobbins, who had a lead role in the Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, and Kosovo reconstruction efforts, and a team of RAND Corporation researchers, the total number of post-conflict American combat casualties in Germany—and Japan, Haiti, and the two Balkan cases—was zero."

Wolfie, Rummy, and Condi are all shameless in continuing to mention this.
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TSElliott Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. There are several books on the subject
"Werewolf: The Story of the Nazi Resistance Movement 1944-1945" - Charles Whiting

"The Last Nazi" - Perry Biddiscombe

"Werwolf!: The History of the National Socialist Guerrilla Movement, 1944-1946" - Perry Biddiscombe

"With Our Backs to Berlin" - Tony LeTissier (Goes a little into the resistance movement on the Eastern Front towards the end of the war.)



Here is a link that you can read.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1373/10_50/66157021/p1/article.jhtml?term=

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huckleberry Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Right wing e-mail I received today --
comparing WWII to Iraq.

Administration In Crisis Over Burgeoning Quagmire

August 12, 1945

WASHINGTON DC (Reuters) President Truman, just a few months into his
young presidency, is coming under increasing fire from some Congressional Republicans for what appears to be a deteriorating security situation in occupied Germany, with some calling for his removal from office.

Over three months after a formal declaration of an end to hostilities, the occupation is bogged down. Fanatical elements of the former Nazi regime who, in their zeal to liberate their nation from the foreign occupiers, call themselves members of the Werewolf (werewolves) continue to commit almost-daily acts of sabotage against Germany's already-ravaged infrastructure, and attack American troops. They have been laying road mines, poisoning food and water supplies, and setting various traps, often lethal, for the occupying forces.

It's not difficult to find antagonism and anti-Americanism among the population--many complain of the deprivation and lack of security. There are thousands of homeless refugees, and humanitarian efforts seem confused and inadequate.

In the wake of the budding disaster, some have called for more
international participation in peacekeeping.

A Red Cross official said that, "...the German people will be more
comfortable if their conquerors weren't now their overlords. It makes it difficult to argue that this wasn't an imperialistic war when the
occupying troops in the western sector are exclusively American, British and French."

The administration, of course, claims that, given the chaos of the recent war, such a situation is to be expected, and that things will improve with time. As to the suggestion to internationalize the occupying forces, the administration had no official comment, but an unofficial one was a repetition of the quote from General McAuliffe, when asked to surrender in last winter's Battle of the Bulge--"Nuts."

In an attempt to minimize the situation, a White House spokesman pointed out that the casualties were extremely light, and militarily inconsequential, particularly when compared to the loss rates prior to VE Day. Also, the attacks seem to be dying down with each passing month. But this statement was leaped upon by some as heartless, trivializing the deaths and injuries of young American men.

Many critics back in Washington seem now to be prescient, with their
previous warnings of just such an outcome a little over a year ago.

One congressman said that "...it's time to ask whether the German people are better off now than they were a few months ago. Yes, a brutal dictator has been deposed, but at least the electricity and water supply were mostly working, and the trains running on time. After years of killing them and destroying their infrastructure with American bombs, it seems to me that the German people have suffered enough without the chaos that our occupation, with its inadequate policing, is bringing."

It's not clear how much support the Werewolf has among the populace, who may be afraid to speak their true minds, given the fearfully overwhelming "Allied" presence in the country. But it is possible that, like the guerilla forces themselves, the people have been inspired by Propaganda Minister Josef Goebbels' pre-victory broadcasts, and those of Radio Werewolf.

"God has given up the protection of the people . . . Satan has taken
command." Goebbels broadcast last spring. "We Werewolves consider it our supreme duty to kill, to kill and to kill, employing every cunning and wile in the darkness of the night, crawling, groping through towns and villages, like wolves, noiselessly, mysteriously."

While no new broadcasts of Goebbels' voice have been heard since early May, no one can be certain as to whether he is alive or dead, and continuing to help orchestrate the attacks and boost morale among the forces for German liberation. As long as his fate, and more importantly, that of the former leader Adolf Hitler himself, remains unresolved, the prospects for pacifying the brutally conquered country may be dim.

Although Grand-Admiral Donitz made a radio announcement of Hitler's
brave death in battle to the beleaguered German people on the evening of May 1, some doubt the veracity of that statement, and there has been no evidence to support it, or any body identified as the former Fuehrer's. Rumors of his whereabouts continue to abound, including reported sightings as far away as South America, and many still believe that he is hiding with the "Edelweiss" organization, with thousands of Wehrmacht troops, in a mountain stronghold near the Swiss border.

Many have criticized flawed intelligence for our failure to find him,
causing some, in the runup to next year's congressional elections, to
call for an investigation.

A staffer of one prominent Senator said, "For months, starting last fall, we were told by this administration that Hitler would make a last stand in a 'National Redoubt' in Bavaria. General Bradley diverted troops to the south and let the Russians take Berlin on the basis of this knowledge. But now we find out that there was no such place, and that Hitler was in Berlin all along. And now we're told that we can't even be sure of where he is, or whether he's alive or dead."

For many, marching in the streets with signs of "No Blood For Soviet Socialism," and "It's All About The Coal," this merely confirmed that the administration had other agendas than its stated one, and that the war was unjustified and unjustifiable.

General Bradley's staff has protested that this is an unfair criticism--that the strategic decision made by General Eisenhower was driven by many factors, of which Hitler's whereabouts was a minor one, but this hasn't silenced the critics, some of whom have bravely called for President Truman's impeachment, despite the fact that most of these decisions were made even before he became president in April.

But some have taken the criticism further, and say that failure to get
Hitler means a failed war itself.

"Sure, it's nice to have released all those people from the concentration camps, but we were told we were going to war against Hitler, even though he'd done nothing to us," argued one concerned antiwar Senator. "Now they say that we have 'Victory in Europe,' but it seems to me that if they can't produce the man we supposedly went to war against, it's a pretty hollow victory. Without this man that they told us was such a great threat to America, how can even they claim that this war was justified?"
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TSElliott Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That story is B.S.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Another myth from the Radical Right.
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TheBigGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Id like to know more about this, too.
The first time I heard of the "werewolves" was in this movie, where a train gets sabotaged (it was a black and white film...sort of arty).

That movie came out during the 1990s. Until then I never heard any tales of postwar resistence.

I would concede there may have been some, but I would suspect it was really minimal.
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