Dean is not hiding the fact he is a centrist

[VermontDem2004]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. My name is Anthony Deangelo (ph), and I'm from Florida. I'm a student at American University. My question for you, Dr. Dean, is, with so much of the country and your party leaning towards the centrist point of view, how do you plan on appealing to the center while still adhering to your left-leaning views?

DEAN: Well, I am a centrist. I balance budgets. Nobody else in this race other than Bob Graham has ever balanced a budget.

My position on guns is that—we have no gun control in Vermont. My position on guns is we ought to enforce the federal laws and then let states decide how much or little gun control they want. I also believe in health insurance for every single American and I believe in jobs again in this country.

I think that makes me a centrist, and I think that's how we're going to beat George Bush. George Bush is not in the mainstream of where American politics are. And I think most Americans believe in fiscal conservatism. I've exhibited that.

Most Americans believe in social progressivism. I've exhibited that. And that's how we're going to beat George Bush.

http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000018678&keyword=Centrist&phrase=&contain=

HOWARD DEAN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's mostly put out by people who are afraid I'm going to win because they're not. The fact is, I balance budgets. I believe in health insurance for every single American. I'm not a big gun control person because I come from a very rural state. I would say I'm a centrist. I believe in gay rights because I believe every American ought to have the same rights as everybody else. So you will have to decide whether I'm a conservative or liberal or a moderate. I think I'm a centrist.

http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000018680&keyword=Centrist&phrase=&contain=

DEAN: I am a mainstream candidate. I am a centrist, I always have been. I think what you're seeing is the clutching at straws, both with Joe's remarks and with the DLC staff's remarks, which I think do not represent the majority of DLC members, many of whom I know personally.

DEAN: I balanced budgets; Tom DeLay has never done that.

I made sure every child in my state had health insurance. In Tom DeLay's state, they just cut 230,000 children off health care because they couldn't balance their budget.

I delivered jobs. The Republicans haven't delivered any jobs for a long time. And the Republicans haven't balanced the budget for 34 years in this country.

Let's let the American people decide who's the centrist, who's the mainstream political force here. I think Congressman DeLay and the president are way out there on the extremes.

And I just might add one more thing: We're not going to let them take our flag anymore. That flag belongs to everybody in the country; it doesn't belong to Tom DeLay.

http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000018334&keyword=Centrist&phrase=&contain=

Want more, go here
http://www.vote-smart.org/speech.php?keyword=Centrist&phrase=&contain=&without=&type=search&can_id=CNIP0634&go2.x=3&go2.y=11

[deutsey]

1. In fact, he came right out and said he was yesterday

at the breakfast meeting I attended yesterday in DC.

[VermontDem2004]

3. I know

I came accross several posts where they said Dean is a centrist but he pretends to be liberal.

[Maple]

2. The majority of the American people

are in the center.

It's where you have to be in order to get elected.

[Starpass]

4. Good, Christ am I confused

I've read a lot of posts in this Dean frenzie that is going on. We have people condemning the DLC which is trying to be right smack in the middle of the asile. Howard says he's a centerist---ahhh isn't that right where the DLC is? I swear a bunch of you think Howard who borrowed the "democratic wing of the Dem party" (paraphrase) is a liberal god and that that is what he meant. Yet, Dean keeps denying he is a liberal. So exactly what the hell is Dean?? Center of fucking what?? I've seen the posts of his interviews in the past and they are not liberal. He like HMO's, he has a laundry list of important social programs (ss, medicare) that he is not very supportive of (all sorts of neat: let's cut, slice and dice). He sounds to me more like Bush on these issues than any Dem. So, I can't help but wonder if some of his supporters think he is X, other's Y, and a group who think he's Z??? I don't think his supporters are necessarily all on the same page.

[Upfront]

7. Starr Pass

I don't think your confused at all. Could you be just a touch bitter because you man Kerry is getting his rear handed to him? Almost every post from you is a Dean bash, maybe you need a new plan.

[Starpass]

18. hey smell on shit or whatever you billed yourself as last time

I'm not a Kerry person....Clark seems to be a little more shining bright in the stars and bars dept. And I don't know where Howard is and I don't think half of you people do either. Some think he's sixteen paces further left then Kennedy and others love that he's a centerists. I think Howard plays all against the middle. And I think Howard will do a hard turn just like Bush if he is ever elected---that is if 49 states drop out of the Union and only Vermont votes.

[Upfront]

20. Ah Star Mouth

Its Clark you like, good choice. He will make a great VP for Dr. Dean.

[HazMat]

8. It's simple. Dean will be whoever he needs to be

depending on the audience.

In front of anti-war activists he's an anti-war leftist from the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.

In front of mainstream voters he's a centrist who's pro NRA, pro-"state's rights" (codespeak for to Southerners that "you can do the dirty and I'll look away"), pro corporations, etc.

Which one is it Howard ?

The truth is Dean is a self-centered, arrogant, opportunistic blowhard, co-opting, feaux liberal, Rockefeller Republican with the record to back it up, with no chance in hell to defeat the Bush regime.

But we all know that Dean and his supporters are more concerned with making a statement than actually defeating Bush, anyway -- the future of this country be damned.

[indigo32]

10. Ummm

yeah I'm convinced... </sarcasm off>

[VermontDem2004]

11. sigh

I opposed the war on Iraq, not because I'm a pacifist; because I didn't think the evidence was there.

http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000017358&keyword=&phrase=pacifist&contain=

I opposed the war not because I'm a pacifist—I'm not—but because the evidence presented did not justify preemptive war.

http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000013823&keyword=&phrase=pacifist&contain=

I've been very up-front about my views on the war. I'm not a pacifist, I'm not an anti-war person. This was bad judgment on the President's part. Iraq was not a threat to us. As frightful and dreadful as Saddam Hussein is, or was, it was not OK for the United States to attack a country that was not a threat to us.
http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000018307&keyword=&phrase=pacifist&contain=

I get so freakin tired of the myth you Kerry supporters have pushed around. If you clicked on my links on my original post he talks about why he was against the war, why he is pro-states rights on gun control, etc. Your argument just doesn't hold up.

[Demobrat]

13. We all know that huh?

Just like we all know that Kerry is a coward who's trading on what he did 30 years ago because he was afraid to stand up to Bush until Dean did it first.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deutsey]

Sorry, that's crap

Dean was asked about his views on two very controversial subjects at the meeting I attended yesterday (guns and Israel/Palestine).

He point-blank said before answering each that people may not like his stand on X, but...and then went on to clearly state what he believes. No waffling that I saw. He was also very clear on the fact that he's no dove (something I'm not crazy about, frankly), but that in the case of Iraq, it was stupid to invade (something I agree with entirely).

This personal experience is consistent with what I've seen of him on television and read about him as well.

[Eloriel]

17. Oh, I suppose you're entitled to your OPINIONS

No matter how poorly based in reality they are. In this case, they are utterly bereft of fact or even meaning.

Quite a good tactic you've got there, though, I have to say. Mostly just personal attacks, assertions that are difficult to impossible to "prove otherwise." Very clever. Very UGLY, but clever as all get out. Smells like the Kerry campaign to me.

Sooooo, I've seen about 3 posts of yours now, and they're not worth reading. You're going on ignore.

Eloriel

[grytpype]

5. OK, I am now a Dean supporter.

Not that I don't support other candidates as well...

[asjr]

6. Dean

Howard Dean doesn't have to please his fellow candidates. He has to please the voters. He has certainly done that in my case. He has said nothing for which he has to apologize. Some people just can't understand that Dean says what voters want to hear--it doesn't have to be tied up in ribbons.

[Demobrat]

9. Centrist, liberal, who cares?

Like he says, who cares what they call him, as long as they call him Mr. President after the election. Does he really have to fit into some prefab box with a label on it? Why? Why should any of the candidates? It's what they say and stand for that matters, not how they fit some preconceived notion of what a "liberal", "centrist" or "conservative" should be.

[VermontDem2004]

12. Well I posted it

because people have been around here saying that Dean is a centrist but is running on a far left platform.

[blm]

16. Dean slapped the label of "Bushlite" on the others

and proclaimed himself to be from the "Democratic wing of the Democratic party" ala Wellstone.

In fact, he was one of the reasons throughout the 90s that liberal Dems were held at arm's length because he scorned and mocked them regularly himself. You can be a centrist WITHOUT mocking the left. Hell, he took potshots at Marian Wright Edelman.

Clinton and other centrists NEVER mocked the left even when they were agreeing to centrist bills. Well...Zell Miller mocks the liberals whenever he has the opportunity.

Howard Dean is similar to Zell Miller.

[VermontDem2004]

19. ok

NEWSWEEK: You emerged in part when you said that you're from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. What did you mean by that?

DEAN: I think Americans are incredibly hungry for someone who says what he thinks. Particularly as compared with this president, who basically says whatever Karl Rove tells him to say.
http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000016524&keyword=&phrase=democratic+wing+of+the+democratic+party&contain=

That is what he means by that statement, someone who says what he thinks and stands up for what he/she should believe in. It doesn't mean to him that he is far left.

[StandWatie]

15. everyone thinks they are a "centrist"

Dean is actually my guy (by default, he's the only one out there I believe can win for a number of reasons, this belief of mine is the same sort of bullshit that "centrism" is) but people always think their own ideas are what everyone else believes.

[Clete]

21. Dean has always said he was a centrist if you were paying attention.

He also said that the party has moved so far to the right, it makes him look like a liberal.

[MGKrebs]

22. I support Dean and i don't even know what a "centrist" is.

Does "centrist" mean that you have to be "in the middle" on every issue?
Is advocating civil unions centrist? Is balancing the budget centrist? Is opposing pre-emptive war centrist? Is national health care centrist?

Maybe if you take all the positions and somehow weigh and balance them , you might come up with a "centrist" specific gravity, but that doesn't really have much meaning, does it?

These labels are pretty useless in my opinion. If your agenda is to have a candidate that fits a label, it seems to me it's kind like Cliff's Notes for politics. You would be depending on someone else to summarize what a candidate is about instead of doing the work of finding out for yourself.

If you have an issue that is very important to you, (and I mean "you" in the plural, meaning all of us) I would suggest using that as a center point to evaluate the candidates, and work out from there on issues of gradually lesser importance, eliminating candidates as you go.

With this many candidates in the hunt, there are going to be many variations of Democratic ideology. It's a fantastic circumstance that we can refine our desires so thoroughly. May the best wo/man win.