I still don't understand the Dean/Leiberman flap....

[vi5]

There is a conflict in the middle east between two parties.

Dean said we should be an honest broker between the both sides. If my memory serves me correctly. That is what Clinton did and was able to get both leaders (at the time) into a room to talk...together. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is a lot further than the current resident of the WH has done.

People who counter with "But the US has always been decidedly pro-Israel" seem to be doing so without a trace of irony and very little self awareness as to the fact that maybe, just maybe there is the remotest of possibilities that such a statement indicates not only why things are such a mess over there but also down the line of logic why half the world hates us.

But just as an outside group killing American citizens on 9/11 shouldn't have gone unpunished or excused or forgiven, it also should not have allowed us to neglect taking a good hard look at what we have done around the world that perhaps caused ANY group to want to do that to our citizens, so too should both the Israel and Palestine groups look perhaps at what they are doing or have done to inflame this situation. But it seems that both sides are just as unwilling as many of our citizens are to turn the mirror on themselves. I think all that Dean was saying is that we can't hold a regular mirror up to one side but a fun house mirror up to the other and still consider ourselves to be honest.

And to be honest with you, the degree and magnitude over the hoopla of his statement scares me.

Just my thoughts. Perhaps I just simply don't know what the F I'm talking about.

[Nicholas_J]

1. Dean is pulling another major flip flop

And acting like he is saying something new.

Dean is a spoiler, tends to state things to provike controversy and throw things into a state of chaos, so he can slip through the cracks.

When he took his AIPAC sponsored trip last January, his complete support of Israel and Sharon's stance was apparant.

He is just doing anotrher flip flop to attract Muslims, who were active in working against him during the MoveOn primaries.

This is simply more Dean flip flops and an article today in the U.K. Guardian points it out:


AP Analysis: Dean Under Political Scrutiny

Wednesday September 10, 2003 11:39 PM


EDITOR'S NOTE: - AP News Analysis

By RON FOURNIER

AP Political Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Howard Dean is learning that his words count - and can count against him - as the Democratic presidential front-runner. From the Middle East to race, Social Security and campaign finance reform, the former Vermont governor is getting singed by nearly every hot-button issue he touches.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3132173,00.html

[newsguyatl]

4. do you do ANYTHING

besides google hits on dean?


just wondering...


lot of us just really wish you'd go away and never come back... ((we can dream can' we))



how's your man doing in the latest polls by the way?

[wtmusic]

8. careful newsguy

we don't want another 'deleted message'!
(you're right, BTW)

[Sean Reynolds]

5. BS

Just because Dean changed his POV doesn't mean he flip-flopped. I guess politicians aren't aloud to grow in their beliefs and policies, right? I'm SO sure Kerry has NEVER once changed his mind on an issue, right?

:eyes:

[Eloriel]

12. No, Kerry neer has changed his mind on an issue and that's

because he's never made up his mind to start with.

:evilgrin:

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Just tooooooo good an opening there.

Eloriel

[poskonig]

6. The Kerry people are really *projecting* their flipflop thing.

:evilgrin:

[roughsatori]

10. I'm with you, I keep thinking I must be missing something

The whole flap makes no sense to me. I felt too dumb to say it, thanks for being the brave one.

[fedupwithbush]

2. My thoughts

exactly. Until they are treated equally, there will be no peace.

Another thought. I view the Israel vs. Palestine conflict for the most part as fueding religions and part land stealing. That's why I cringe when anyone says we (the US) are mostly Christian. I would rather say the majority of us believe in a higher power. To label it is to create divisions. I can't stand organized religion. The most brutal and heinous crimes in history were perpetrated by religious zealots.

On a side note, why are churches building multi-million dollar buildings? That money could actually HELP someone. I was taught that no matter where I pray is a church. Having a fancy building and address seems to matter more to a lot of churches and their parishioners more than actually helping people.

As for the stealing of land, how about I come and carve out part of your property and build on it and say "Now it's mine". Then I invite a bunch of my friends to come and build too.

[wtmusic]

9. Welcome fedup!

:bounce: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :bounce:

[fedupwithbush]

11. Thanks wtmusic

I've been around for awhile. Just haven't jumped in. Got told recently by yet another person to just let things be and it'll all sort itself out. I really don't believe that. Never have, but I've went along to get along. NO more.

What are you involved in in music? I love it all. My husbands been a musician(drummer) forever. Don't know any other way of life.

[liberalnurse]

3. To me, it sounds like Dean

is choosing to take a hard, honest look at the conflict as it takes 2....and he is focusing on proactive discussion to seek resolution. Picking sides only facilitates the violence and peace is not an option. Kind of like family counseling.

[onecitizen]

7. In fact, I remember Clinton using those.......

very words in regards to the matter.

[fabius]

13. I welcome Dean's stance on the Israel-Palestine conflict

Clinton was near a resolution while trying to be an "honest broker".

Bush has ignored the problem, and then any time he tries to get tough with Sharon, Cheney takes him to the woodshed. Notice that anyone? Bush might even be more effective with Israel if he wasn't getting his strings pulled.

Dean offering in effect to continue giving the issue the same priority Clinton did, is very welcome.

Lieberman, I presume, is for "transportation" of the Palestinians.

Anyone who has seen the recent spate of Warsaw ghetto movies will recognize what is happening to the Palestinians. The supreme irony is that the Israelis should be the perpetrators.

[Orangepeel]

14. Because there's nothing to understand. Lieberman's trying to...

...make something out of nothing (because he's got nothing else). Other candidates, sensing a possible vulnerability in the front runner are jumping on board. Politics as usual.