If Pelosi and Co. De-rail the Dean Express I'm leaving the Party...

[BuelahWitch]

I'm convinced they don't want to win this election. Their pet candidates aren't generating any excitement so they try to put a monkeywrench in the one that does. You don't win elections by selecting the damn candidate, let the people decide who they want. If one of them eclipses Dean between now and the convention, fair and fine. But don't take my choices away!

Clark and Kucinich people you should be just as pissed as we are because your candidates are next. They get your blood moving? Too damn bad! To paraphrase Rev. Sharpton, they're not in the clique so they won't be invited to the dance. Plain and simple.

Dems like Pelosi and Lieberman have screwed up this party with their pandering to Bush. I'm tired of Democrats who tell us we have to lay down and take everything the f*cking Republicans dish out. I want a fighter, I want someone as angry as I am, who won't tell me to "get over" the stolen election of 2000, the election the Dems should have fought for.

Howard Dean is my candidate. He makes me proud to be a Democrat. I'm sticking with him.

[Eloriel]

1. Wow. What a concept!

You don't win elections by selecting the damn candidate, let the people decide who they want.

Well said.

I've had it with Pelosi now, if that whole letter thing is true. These people better get out of Washington and smell the roses. They're just digging BIG old holes for themselves.

Eloriel

[Pastiche423]

8. It's true

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/09/10/national2031EDT0898.DTL

[Must_B_Free]

29. Woah, cool!

I was unaware of this flap. I like it. Lieberman caught stooping to a new low and then looking even worse because he failed with a cheapshot...

[Duncan Grant]

30. I just wrote Pelosi to say...

get off Howard Dean's back and onto pResident *'s. Damn, talk about misdirected energies! :grr:

Madam Pelosi's e-mail address: [e-mail]

[candy331]

2. Is It Time

for a citizen revolt(revolution) in this country? The country is owned by the politicians and litle say by the people. People have to know that they do have power and quit giving it away before the little that's left will be gone..... called a dictatorship.

[caledesi]

3. CFF - I am with you! I am a total Dean supporter and am so

pissed at Pelosi, Lieberman, and Peter Fenn (Dem on CNN today trashing Dean...misquoting him...saying that Dean said the USA was not a strong nation...or some shit. BTW, he's for Lieberman).

These people are shooting themselves in the foot. We don't want Lieberman. Hello?

As a matter of fact, ANY of the other candidates I will definitely vote for because I think they have done quite well in the debates.

Want to feel better? My Dem friend got a call from the DNC about contributing and he let them have it. He said that he will not contribute any more $ to them because the Dems have been "wusses" and he is supporting Dean. Ha Ha! Wonder how many phone calls they have had like that???

F*ck these people who want to tear Dean down. They just don't get it. There is only ONE candidate who has gotten booed and we all know who he is.

[BuelahWitch]

42. Good for your friend!

I don't get calls from them, but I get emails begging for money. I'm going to the site and tell them I won't send them a DIME unless they stay out of the way and let the people choose who they want. We DON'T want Lieberman!

[paulsbc]

4. and do what?

vote for Bush? please.

[BuelahWitch]

41. No! Vote third party or stay home!

I would NEVER vote for Bush!

[fla nocount]

I'm with you. The DLC and DNC are toast in 2004.

So are their canidates. The business as usual Dem. suck-A**s are toast as well. Myself as well as many others are going to vote for change in 2004. If this results in a BFEE re-election so be it. It will also result in a civil revolt....."Bring em On". The sooner the better, let's get this over with.

[LastDemInIdaho]

5. My take on it

Sure Dean can win the primary but there will be a severe shortage of voters to put him in the WH due to sensitive issues like suicide bombers versus Israel atrocities.

If you believe the electorate is as pro Palistinian as the primary voters you are in for a big letdown.

[w4rma]

6. Dean = Clinton on I/P.

Dean said "evenhanded". Clinton said "honest broker".

[Julien Sorel]

15. The times have changed.

Besides, 'even handed' doesn't mean the same thing as 'honest broker,' and the way Clinton handled himself with Israel and the Palestinians was as anything but an honest broker. I always think of Clinton winking whenever he used that phrase -- which predates him, anyway. The U.S. hasn't attempted a truly even-handed approach to Israel since perhaps Carter, if I give him the benefit of the doubt; for whatever reason since then, American policy has become more and more Zionist-oriented. Nowadays, 'even-handed' means unqualified support for Israel almost regardless of the circumstances. When Dean said 'even-handed,' he forgot to give a Clintonian wink to the cameras, to tip off AIPAC that he was in on the joke.

[cprise]

19. Is that the kind of cynicism we can expect from Clark?

.

[Julien Sorel]

21. Is the only comment you have,

or do you have something meaningful (I won't bother expecting intelligent) to say?

[blm]

51. Dean JUST lined up behind Clinton

when his own stated policies throughout this year conflicted, were drifting and incoherent.

[TLM]

53. Deans statements have been consistant...

when you bashers accuse him of crap that is bogus, then find later that you accusations do not hold up, you accuse Dean of drifting or being unclear.

When the fact is you were just making shit up, as ususal.

[cprise]

10. That's when you take the opportunity

...to educate the public during the debate. Neocons have been willing to do this, and we haven't.

It's about time.

The only progressive movement (gay/lesbian) to make any actual progress recently has a mantra: Raise awareness!

[LastDemInIdaho]

12. Impossible task

The fact that the suicide bombers are active that alone will put up a wall that no explaining will suffice. Most people refuse to accept any excuse for the acts of suicide bombers.

Pity the ones lignting the fuse can't see it.

[cprise]

16. Then throw the "Palestinian = Bomber" assumption into high relief

Get some guts. The only way to play to win is to accept the possibility of losing.

Let America at least accept or reject a choice that is fair. Then if its the latter, at least it will be clear the rest of the world must pick up where America has fallen.

[TLM]

24. I still do not understand what is so wrong about evenhanded?

This seems like another example of the PC language fascists having a fit... not unlike some on DU who whip out the anti-Semite label anytime anybody criticizes anything Israel does.

Lieberman and crew are doing the same thing...

I was watching hardball tonight and they were acting like dean was defending the act of suicide bombers and because he said we need to stop the spiral of violence, that clearly meant dean was saying it was all Israel’s fault and that he fully supported suicide bombing of daycare centers.

I'm watching this and thinking... bad bad idea for Lieberman to go hard-line on Israel. Lieberman couldn't have picked a worse issue to use to attack Dean. Because Lieberman is just going to come of as if he thinks Israel can do no wrong. Lieberman can not afford to look like an extremist on Israel. And that's exactly what he looks like because Dean's statements were perfectly reasonable things to say.

However Lieberman comes off like he is saying we should be openly biased in favoring Israel on issues that are supposed to be blind to race or religion or creed like social justice, freedom, and equality. That we should violate the very values we are trying to established by showing favoritism in our role as the broker of peace, instead of treating both sides justly and fairly in an even way.

And Dean has handled this well, pointing out that his position is the same as Clintons was and saying things that to the average person are perfectly reasonable. But to someone desperate for an attack on Dean, the term evenhanded means you hate the jews.

[unfrigginreal]

28. We're not allowed to use evenhanded as a Democratic principle anymore.

Our leaders have declared that we DO NOT want to be EVENHANDED in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. From now on it's your duty as a party member to be Pro-Israeli...don't be condescending to the Palestinians, just don't let them know that you are Pro-Israeli and everything will be rosy.

[sendero]

39. it is just politics....

.... Leiberman has been looking for an angle and he has found one, he thinks.

As for the comment above about what the American people "think", I'll tell you flat out that IMHO there has been a sea change in public opinion about Isreali policies over the last couple years.

I do not think that Israel can depend on American public opinion much longer.

On a public radio talk show yesterday, Alan Derschowitz was attempting to defend his new book, and I'll tell ya, the calls were 3 to 1 against him. Three years ago it would have been 5 to 1 for him.

[CWebster]

36. So if Palestinians

target the homes of Israelis who give the orders to bomb Palestinian homes--all will be equal?

Suicide bombing does not occur in a vacuum and Israelis are not the only innocent victims.

If we funded a massive military machine for the Palestinians, then when their homes are bulldozed they could send out their own tanks and heliocopters rather than using their own bodies as bombs. You use the weapons at your disposal, but we expect the Palestinians not to fight a war being waged against them when it is their right to exist that is being threatened.

[fla nocount]

11. Then let's educate their asses.

People in Idaho should have a feel for genocide and indigenous people who live off the land, their land and that of their for-fathers..... the fertile back of our mother upon which we walk and draw sustenance. Dare to be strange Dr. Dean

[CWebster]

35. Wrong

Polling continually indicates that most Americans support Palestinian aspirations, a Palestinian state and progress in resolving the conflict--otherwise Bush wouldn't bother to create the impression that it mattered. It is the government and powerful interests that have something to lose politically should they demonstrate a real intent to address the conflict.

[StandWatie]

55. 1% of people in this country

think we should give more money to Israel. A vast majority want to reduce the amount so I think you overstate America's love affair with Israel.

[Flying_Pig]

7. Agreed!

The other factor is, that Israel has TOO MUCH influence on OUR politics and foreign policy! Where in our Constitution does it say that we should let another country run our affairs? It is treasonous, and all those that dance to the AIPAC/Sharon/Likud/PNAC tune, are traitors, plain and simple. I am sick of it. If Pelosi and the other friends of AIPAC and Likud, including their buddies in the media, want to see support for Israel vanish into thin air in this country, let them try to do a hatchet job on Dean! They will have tens of millions of people on their ass!

:mad:
Grrr!!

On Edit: I've been on the fence as far a picking my candidate goes, ...until tonight. Howard Dean is now my candidate (avatar changed!). I've been a Dem for 35 of my 52 years. I've marched for civil rights, against the Vietnam War, and worked elections for the Dems every election for 35 years, and I can tell you, the people running this party right now need a kick in the ass, ...right on out the door. These people are not REAL Democrats! Pelosi/Lieberman/DLC can kiss my ass. After the election, I am going to do everything I can to see they are removed from office, and replaced with REAL Democrats, not the ass-kissing, pink-tutu, Bush appeasers we've got now!! Anyone who has helped Bush stay in office, knowing the crimes he has committed against this nation, and the world, is a traitor, and the time will come when they will pay the price!!! GO DEAN!!!

[BuelahWitch]

40. Hooray for you, Flying Pig!

BTW, that makes me think of Flying Pig from Kids in the Hall. Am I right?

[sham]

9. I'm taking a litte comfort from the fact that

if a huge majority of Americans can't name a single one of our candidates, then they sure as hell don't know who Nancy Pelosi is, and they care even less about what she has to say.

I went to my first Meetup last week, and there were 100 people there. An informal survey (show of hands) showed that for at least 1/2 of us, this was the first time we had ever gotten involved in a political campaign. I've heard similar accounts from all over the country. Pelosi will drag him through the mud for the benefit of the party insiders, but most of Dean's supporters are not party insiders, and won't give a shit what she has to say. In fact, they'll despise her for it, and I say rightfully so.

I swear to all that is good in this world that it is time for the people to be heard. Fuck Nancy and everyone like her. They don't work for us, they work for themselves at best, and for the GOP at worst, and I've had it. She's trying to eat her own -- let her eat our dust.

*finally pissed off enough to go switch to the Dean avatar*

[Egnever]

31. !!!!!!!

Agreed!

And I dig the avatar :)

[Scaramouche]

13. If Dean can't win the party's nomination, then...

Then he ain't worth doodely squat...

This is politics! It's a dog fight. The candidate will become party leader. Which means in dog terms dominating the pack.

If he can't corral this pack of bitches and hounds how can he lead? It's part of the growth.

We want a leader that is proven and can knock the rivals rip out their entrails. I'll follow that dog. A big dog...Cuz this is war...

And let lose the dogs of war...

[CWebster]

37. true

but this is our own party out to destroy our own in allegiance to the neo-con interests whose teat they have been accustumed to sucking.

[ixion]

14. The more I hear the jingoistic garbage coming from the DLC

the more I think they're in cahoots with the neocons. I simply can't believe that there is almost no dissent from the dems over the evil that has seized our country.

[Flying_Pig]

22. You got it...

Neocons/PNAC/AIPAC/Likud/Sharon/Bush/DLC/Lieberman/The Media, all from the same stinking fascist pile, and it would not surprise me the least to learn someday, that the DLC was actually "throwing the race", or, to learn Lieberman was a plant, all along. Something stinks when the opposition (Dems) party eats their own, sides with the enemy time after time (while they destroy the country), and lets the enemy get away with actual murder, fraud, and mayhem. Something stinks, and I can smell it all the way from D.C.

:mad:
Grr!

[Eloriel]

23. They are in cahoots with neocons

Read this thread, esp. Hedda_Foil's post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=316123

Eloriel

[unfrigginreal]

17. I don't know your age, but if it is anywhere close to mine...

you'd be amazed at the accomplishments that the Dean campaign has made to this point.

He's proven that we don't need the DLC and we don't need the DNC! Let them come at him...I welcome the challenge, my charge card is just itching to be used.

This will be the last election that those crony's have any influence over...expect strong Primary Challenges in 2006 after Dean is in the Whitehouse...these establishment morons are going to get early retirement.l

[tokenlib]

18. This letter is very depressing...

..Things are really bad if you can't even hint at the possibility of being critical of Israel at some point without getting your head chopped off. What an over reaction!! It really angers me. I really liked what Gov. Dean was saying.

This letter from Pelosi and the others is rotten.

[shance]

20. I'll be by your side Classic.

They better not mess this deal up.

[maxomai_vs_rove]

25. What I want right now

Nancy Pelosi's head on a platter.

Howard Berman's head on a platter would be nice, too.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. You wouldn't get Berman's head from his district

He's in the North Hollywood district.

As to the rest of the thread, I do find this display interesting. There were many responses the Dems could have had on this. Seems to me based on reading the reactions here (I haven't watched the news)..their actions were more DAMAGING than damage control

[maxomai_vs_rove]

26. Who all signed it?

Who else signed it? Because if Jan Schakowski signed it, there's going to be some interesting conversations going on in the 48th Ward.

[MrPrax]

32. Leave...the fix is In

""This is sent out by Gephardt supporters and it should be seen for what it is -- a political document trying to exploit his statement before he has a chance to clarify it," Nadler said.

Before clarifying his position...???
Or return his calls from backers
Psst don't mention Israel

from the liberal press
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/09/10/national2031EDT0898.DTL

[CWebster]

38. Gephardt and Kerry supportes:

"Pelosi, Berman -- who is Jewish -- and several others who signed the letter are supporting Rep. Dick Gephardt's presidential candidacy, while others back Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts."

[JNelson6563]

33. If I had a nickel for every time

I heard this woman chant "I stand shoulder to shoulder with pResident Bush" I'd be pretty well off.

When will the entrenched learn we are sick of them, disappointed in them and do not give a rip what they think?

Oh and lastly, regarding Israel, I don't know about the rest of the country but those who think everyone sees Israel as blameless in the I/P conflict would be mistaken to believe everyone in my region sees it that way. Much mistaken.

Julie

[DrFunkenstein]

43. Dean Is About As Even-Handed As Sharon

Israeli aid constitutes 30% of the total US foreign aid budget, which renders Israel to be the largest recipient of US aid in the world. It promotes the illegal occupation of Palestinian land in order to establish settlements for Jewish immigrants, transforms Palestine into a military test ground, and violates US law and abuses of human rights.

Dean traveled to Israel on a trip sponsored by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). After meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Dean stated: “I do not think that as long as Yasser Arafat is president there will be peace." Before leaving, Sharon asked if Dean would support requests for new loan guarantees to Israel. Dean “promised him he would.”

http://www.aaiusa.org/countdown/c120602.htm

Last December, Dean told the Jerusalem Post that he unequivocally supported $8 Billion in US loan guarantees for Israel. "I believe that by providing Israel with the loan guarantees...the US will be advancing its own interest," he said. His unconditional support for the loan package, in addition to $4 Billion in outright grants, went further than even some of the most pro-Israel elements in the Bush administration, like Paul Wolfowitz, who wanted to at least include some vague restrictions like pushing Israel to curtail new settlements and accept a timetable to establish a Palestinian state.

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/mainarchive/000119.html

Dean believes the Bush administration should be giving Israel $4 billion in military aid to fight terrorism, not the $1 billion it proposed last month.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030418/us02.shtml

And, finally, Dean's foreign policy speech at Drake. Note how one-sided it is.

When they have bothered to state them, the Administration's guiding principles in the Middle East are the right ones. Terrorism against Israel must end. A two-state solution is the only path to eventual peace, but Palestinian territory cannot have the capability of being used as a platform for attacking Israel. Some degree of separation between Israelis and Palestinians is probably necessary in light of the horrible bloodshed of the past two years. To be viable, the Palestinian Authority must become democratic and purged of corruption.

But none of this will happen naturally. The United States is the only country with the ability to give both sides the confidence to move toward a future of coexistence. Appearances matter, and if we are not engaged, it looks like we simply do not care and that we have condemned the entire Palestinian people because of their leadership. In my view, this hurts the United States, it hurts Israel, and it makes it less likely the violence and the terrorism will end.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_speech_foreign_drake

---

To sum up: Dean says we shouldn't "take sides" - despite promising a leader of another country unconditional financial aid (more than even Paul Wolfowitz would concede). That's 4x the military aid ($1 billion to $4 billion) and 4x the guaranteed loans ($2 billion to $8 billion). He also supports unilateral concessions from the Palestinians, and a "separation" wall that even George W. Bush has reservations about.

How very Presidential.

[ShaneGR]

34. IGNORE

Pellosi writing a fundraising letter for another candidate is not an attempt to destroy Dean. If that were true, is the letter I got from Max Cleland in support of Kerry an attempt to destroy Dean?

Gees...

[Woodstock]

59. There's a difference between "attack" and "support"

Both were letters, that's the only similarity in your analogy.

[Renew Deal]

44. Dean has run against the Party.

Dean supporters feel that the party doesn't matter, DLC doesn't matter, and they are the democratic wing of the party. I am not implying that this is started by the DLC. What do you think is going to happen when you run for the party against the party. These sort of things should be expected. That's why an outsider candidate like Dean has trouble. Dean is almost the McCain of this election. You remember what happened to McCain. I doubt the dems would do some of those things, but that's not the point.

[CWebster]

47. The power structure within the party

no longer represents or connects with the base--only special interests.

Its easier to cater to limited special interests with deep pockets than the concerns of millions of Americans who can only shell out 50 bucks.

Free speech? Only for those who can afford it.

[Renew Deal]

48. I am not convinced that Dean is the best candidate.

There is a lot to it. What you said matters, but Dean supporters act like Dean is now entitled to the nomination. That's not the case. He needs to fight it out like everyone else. I don't know what candidate she is promoting (besides Gephardt), but Dean needs to fight it. If he wins, great.

[CWebster]

64. Its not about Dean

It is about fundamental questions of fairness and democracy.

They have driven the party to the point of irrelevance, the base threatens to topple the apple cart. They are launching a counter-attack and it exposes who and what they are really all about and who they serve.

[UTUSN]

45. Drop a "Happy Inauguration" Card to Shrub on Your Way n/t

[Larkspur]

46. Today I sent a letter to the DCCC, which Pelosi's friend chairs,...

and requested that they immediately stop drafting my checking account. I supported DCCC because as a feminist I wanted to help Nancy Pelosi become the first female Majority Leader, but after her unfounded attacks on Dean, I've decided to cut off financially supporting the DCCC until Pelosi publicly apologizes to the Dean Campaign.

I will also fax my letter rebuking her that I wrote to Pelosi tonight after I get home.

[blm]

49. But it was OK for Dean to misrepresent the other candidates and call

them "Bushlite" and saying that HE represented the "Democratic wing of the Democratic party" implying that the others did not? Funny, how he built his name attacking the others when HE was the one with the 11 year record as a compromising centrist who aligned most often with the GOP.

But, that's OK.

[TLM]

58. BLM how is it not bushlight to vote for the war

the NCLB act, the 350 billion tax cut for the rich, and the patriot act.

Face it, your guy has been votign with Bush for the better part of 3 fucking years, and he's worked hard to earn the label of bush light.


Bush does a campaign stunt ON an aircraft carrier, and Kerry just does one in FRONT of an aircraft carrier. That is a prefect example of the bushlight Kerry issue. He does the same shit as bush, just a little lighter or a little slower.


Kerry Said “If You Don’t Believe In The U.N. ... Or You Don’t Believe Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn’t Vote For Me.” (Ronald Brownstein, “On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd,” Los Angeles Times, 1/31/03)

Kerry Said Leaving Saddam Hussein “Unfettered With Nuclear Weapons Or Weapons Of Mass Destruction Is Unacceptable.” (Jill Lawrence, “War Issue Challenges Democratic Candidates,” USA Today, 2/12/03)

[DrFunkenstein]

61. Please Allow Me To Slam Your Remarks Like a Volleyball

1) Kerry has been absolutely consistent since 1997 of the need to forcibly disarm Saddam. Even Dean believed the weapons existed, just like he said he was "misled" than said we can't afford someone who can be "misled." Dean either lied to anti-war crowds about the need for disarmament, or he changed his mind sometime in February. Either way doesn't strike me as Presidential.

2) NCLB was Ted Kennedy's baby, was left unfunded and constricted flexibility for individual local systems. Voting for this was not a crime, not paying for it was.

3) We'll see whether or not the middle-class wants that tax cut, won't we? Although people over $200,000 don't need it and won't spend it, people like me and my family do and will.

4) The Patriot Act was rushed through one month after 9/11. Only one person voted against it, and it wasn't Wellstone. And your pretty boy Dean has absolutely no intention of repealing it.

5) Kerry may have voted with Bush on non-controversial measures, but you are obviously forgetting John Ashcroft, Gale Norton, and Miguel Estrada's nominations, the ANWR filibuster, Kerry-McCain fuel efficiency measure, and on and on. Check out Public Citizen or Vote Smart to see Kerry's actual record. Not that you don't know this, and aren't deliberately distorting this.

6) John Kerry served proudly and honorably in the Navy and EARNED the right to be there. Bush is a draft-dodging, coke-snorting AWOL monkey. Perhaps Dean could have announced from a ski slope.

7) Your headlines are as stupid as you think they are. Here is Kerry on Iraq's nuclear weapons:

"According to the CIA's report, all US intelligence experts agree that Iraq is seeking nuclear weapons. There is little question that Saddam Hussein wants to develop nuclear weapons.

The more difficult question to answer is when Iraq could actually achieve this goal. That depends on is its ability to acquire weapons-grade fissile material. If Iraq could acquire this material from abroad, the CIA estimates that it could have a nuclear weapon within one year. Absent a foreign supplier, the CIA estimates that Iraq would not be able to produce a weapon until the last half of this decade.

Nevertheless, Saddam Hussein's quest for nuclear weapons and his proven willingness to use weapons of mass destruction underline the very serious threat that the Iraqi regime could pose to the United States and others in the international community if left unchecked."

:yourock:

<>

[Freddie Stubbs]

50. Don't let the door hit you in the ass

This is why we have primaries. If you can't convince fellow Democrats that your candidate is the one, then tough beans. You say that you want a fighter, but threaten to run home to Mommy because you can't get your way.

[BuelahWitch]

52. Why don't you bother to read what I post before you get nasty?

Jesus, I would think another Dean person would understand. I guess somebody just pissed in your cornflakes today bubby? :eyes:
I said if one of the other candidates comes out over Dean *on their own merit* I will vote for him. But I won't have the party throwing people out just because they're not the "right" candidates. Pelosi and Co. need to see that Dean has momentum, their favorite Congresscritters don't. Maybe Pelosi doesn't like it, but it's not her say. She and the other Dems have been pretty piss poor leaders in Congress. They need to follow Deans example and get a backbone, not knock him down.

Now Freddie tell Mama Nancy to pick you out some matching socks and the undies that say "Thursday" since you obviously want her picking your candidate for you too!

[sangh0]

54. Silly

No one is throwing anyone out of the party. That's just overly emotional BS. Pelosi, and other Dems disagree with Dean and are going public with it.

ANd if you think the "other candidates" (aka "Dean's opponents") are going to "come out" for Dean before the convention, you are extremely naive

[BuelahWitch]

57. When I say "comes out over"

I didn't mean "come out for". I meant if they surpass him in populartity.

[Freddie Stubbs]

62. So it's ok for you to state your preferences on candidates,

But members of Congress are not permitted to do so? You are using resources available to you to promote your candidate. Why shouldn't Nancy Pelosi?

[Woodstock]

56. Pelosi lied

Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly said she did not sign the letter because of her endorsement of Gephardt, but because she was concerned about Dean's comments on Israel.

HA!!!!

[nomaco-10]

60. Lieberman and Pelosi got white, hot

flaming e-mails from me in their boxes this am. It's unbelievable to think they would stoop so low as to try to sabotage the Dean campaign for selfish reasons. I won't stand for it and told them so.

[janekat]

63. This is why the RIGHT continues to win....

There is basically NO loyalty to the Democratic Party from their base... Their base: Progressives, etc., will either not show up to vote or will vote for someone else if they get in a "snit" about something OR if the weathers bad.

Meanwhile, on the right (please note that I'm not sanctioning this behavior- it makes me ill) their base will: stage riots during re-counts, camp out for days in front of statues in 95 degree heat, hold prayer circles, boycott products, write letters, harrass people over the phone, make up lies. They might get mad at Bush for a few days but they always show up to vote - and they always come back to the "fold."

They keep adding new voters to their rolls thanks to Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Rupert Murdoch AND the courts being slowly taken over by right wingers. Large constituencies that used to be staunch Democrats are becoming conservative Republicans: young white males, Southerners, rural farmers, gun-toting rednecks. It's also no longer fashionable to be a "Liberal." In fact - it's a dirty word.

Article after article keeps on appearing about how the population is getting more and more conservative.

If Darwin was right with his theory of "survival of the fittest" we Progressives are on our way to becoming an endangered species....