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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:29 PM
Original message
Can someone PLEASE help me to respond to these posts?
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 01:29 PM by ChimpyMcSmirk
I belong to a messageboard that has a few Freepers on it. I am not the best debater so could someone help me out with responding to these?

Here are the posts:
....Don't get me started... Bill Clinton was a total embarrasment to this country.
Im not saying he wasn't smart or a good attorney, but he has the morals of a pile of crap.

What he does behind closed doors is his business but it was made public and he chose TO LIE FLAT OUT TO EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN...I would have had alot more admiration for the man if he had come clean to begin with. If he had the nerve to lie about something he knew would come out in the end what else did he lie about.

Second..it takes years for the economy to turn, Clinton was handed an economy on the upswing on a silver platter. He reaped the benefits of the work done before him. Just as Bush has reaped the SHIT that was sewn before him compounded by the 9/11 attacks.....now that his term is coming close to an end,/election the economy is trying to pull itself back up by its boot straps and I have no doubt in a year or so we will all be doing much better..but by then, we are likely to have another Democrat in office, just in time to reap the benefits once again....I hope not..but..that is My Opinion. I blows my mind that pple actually think the good economy that we enjoyed whild Clinton just magically happened b/c he became president..If my portfolio proves me correct..the economy was falling to crap before the Clinton term ended.....It doesn't happen over night folks.

I can see why some people like and don't like Bush. He can be arrogant, he cant give a speech without looking like a robot, but I know that he is giving 100%.I think he has done a good job under some highly ridiculous circumstances...Bill Clinton had an EASY RIDE..the hardest thing that man had to deal with was the own mess he created by embarrassing his wife and daughter because he couldn't keep his pants zipped.

And here is the second one:
that's right, you didn't see anything like iraq happen with Clinton. he was too busy dodging scandals. It's not like all these terrorists decided to become active when Bush took office, you know. anyway, i said no hard feelings. but if you think someone that boinks an intern on his desk in the OVAL OFFICE of our nation's capital building, cheating on his wife, embarassing his daughter, not to mention making our government look rediculous, is respectable,then I don't know what else to say.

And the last one..which is about the 87 billion dollars * wants:
About the amount of money..I agree it is alot..but compared to other stupid things our government spends money on...it is a small amount....example..(I just used this comparison in a different post on this forum)

The democrats are proposing we spend 600 BILLION (quite a bit more don't you think) on their health care plan that most americans don't even want. But do we hear that being drilled in our hands. NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Thanks!!
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. why bother?
THEY ARE FREEPERS. They think that lying about sex is an impeachable offense, but lying to get us into a Middle East quagmire is just A-OK. They are beyond reasoning.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. clinton was an embarassment...
to these jackholes but somehow he had higher job ratings than Chimpy does now even with his heroic Top Bum landing.

And the rest of the world loved Clnton and still do. He can go anywhere in the world and draw adoring crowds. Bush can't even appear in public in his own country and polls show that he is possibly the most hated world figure since Hitler.
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Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I agree.
If they are still focused on Clinton's sex life, they are not worth bothering with. I know men like this. They will never, ever get over the fact that Bill got to have sex with a woman not his wife and got to keep her too. They would cheat in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it, but they know their wives would throw them out on their asses without a second thought, so they don't cheat, just dream about it. And sex with a young intern? They wouldn't dare. They're jealous pure and simple, and nothing will ever change that.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. First, I would show him a few links showing how Clinton fought terrorism
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 01:37 PM by ET Awful
This is a post I made on another board recently regarding the same issues as the second post you mentioned:


Since there are so many right-wingers here that choose to alter the truth as to what exactly Bill Clinton did to combat terrorism, I thought it might be helpful to provide some actual FACT instead of the fiction that most of them attempt to vomit forth.

First, I will refer you to http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/clinton.htm which does a great deal to disprove many of the false claims made by right-wing pundits as to how soft Clinton was on terrorism.

Then, I will remind you that Clintons administration was the first to freeze terrorist assets (with $254 million in Taliban assets frozen in 1999). http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A52702-2001Oct12

In 1996, Clinton succeeded in getting a bill passed which you would think the right wing would love "Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996." This goes largely unnoticed by the right-wing pundits who chose to pay more attention to blow jobs.

The official policy of the Clinton Whitehouse on terrorism also went greatly ignored, but much of it can be found at http://www.cdt.org/policy/terrorism/adm-anti-terror-otl.html

You can see from the above that Clinton made great efforts and strides to stop terrorism. You will also see people mention the USS Cole bombing as evidence that Clinton was soft on terrorism. They fail to mention that this happened a mere 30 days before the election.

Why is it that none of them mention the 1993 WTC bombing as proof of Bush, Sr.'s lack of efforts on terrorism? After all, Bush had only been out of office 30 days when this attack occurred. Clintons administration tracked down the attackers in that case and brought them to justice.

In August of 1998, Clinton addressed congress via a letter in an attempt to freeze bin Laden's assets (yes, he came up with the idea long before Bush). http://www.ict.org.il/documents/documentdet.cfm?docid=22 Yet this is greatly forgotten by the right.

In fact, republicans in congress watered down Clinton's anti-terrorism bill http://www.angelfire.com/rant/sstewert/News/clintonbill.html(don't bitch about the angelfire site, check the sources instead).

It's also worth mentioning that contrary to popular belief, Clinton NEVER refused to accept bin Laden. He could not accept him at the one opportunity that was presented because there was no evidence with which to try him (this happened in 1996). The Sudanese government just wanted bin Laden gone, they told Clinton this, but there was no way at the time Clinton could do anything because there was no crime with which to charge him and no evidence with which to indict him. He tried to persuade Saudi Arabia to take him and hold him, THEY REFUSED. This is how bin Laden ended up in Afghanistan.

In fact, as I linked in an earlier post, Clinton had greenlighted the CIA to take any action necessary to stop bin Laden. The CIA had trained operatives in Pakistan to go into Afghanistan and take him out. But, a military coup in Pakistan stopped that from happening. The leader of that coup is still in power in Pakistan and is a good friend of the current administration. http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/10/18/column.billpress/index.html

Clinton did more than any president before him to halt terrorism. To insinuate that he did otherwise is both a lie and an insult.



As to the money issue. . . I would rather spend a Trillion dollars making people well than $87 Billion making people dead.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. hmm, just go get 'em
Do your best. You'll be stronger for it when you're done. Don't allow the freepers' to use straw men (see http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) in their arguments - call them on it.

And, it does NOT take "years for the economy to turn", IMO.
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Don't forget to use this one...
When they say it takes "years for the economy to turn" just reply, "So, the economic boom of the 1980's was actually Jimmy Carter's doing, right?"
Then watch them stammer and squirm. It's fun.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. The economy turned worse the day after 9/11...
so that proves the economy CAN turn on a dime.

If his portfolio suffered it was because he was dumb enough to fall for the hype of Republicans like Ken Lay and Bernie Ebbers.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. There's really no reason to respond to them
The author is just as capable as anyone else in using their brains. If he chooses not to, then so be it. Don't try to teach a pig to think; you won't succeed and you'll irritate the pig.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah, most Americans want to be bankrupted by healthcare...
Most of us can't even afford to insure ourselves if we're out of work or are self-employed. The Pentagon offers socialized medicine to its employees and they love it, except when the Republicans try to shortchange them. Congress has socialized mediciine and you don't hear them complaining.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. No they would rather be bankrupted by Bush* and his economy of war
:shrug: Try and convince a stump it's way easier.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Stupid things the government spends money on
By that I suppose this person means health care and education.
So its ok to do this for Iraq?

Its true that the Democrats are proposing we spend a lot of money on health care, but consider all of the wasteful spending Bush has committed on corporate welfare and war.

And about this "Bush got handed a bad hand" shit:
Aren't republicans supposed to be the party of personal responisbility?

Its not a coincidence that every time a Republican gets in office, the economy tanks and the rich get richer.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. As to the second one "it takes years for the economy to turn"
1993 Clinton's budget proposal was passed without a single Republican vote. Every major Republican, Gingrich, Armey, Delay, etc. said beyond a shadow of a doubt this budget would bankrupt America. It would be the biggest disaster in our history. We know what happened. The largest economic expansion in history. Not a single Republican supported it. They know absolutley nothing about finances.
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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks!!
Now she is telling me that the media is largely left wing and they are trying to make the current administration look like crap! OMG!
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hippiegranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. save yourself, chimpy mc
she is only raising your blood pressure. she is a limbaugh drone who repeats every wing nut lie as if it were gospel. you will never convince her of anything. instead ask leading questions that will draw her out more in front of the others. guaranteed she will end up looking outrageous and idiotic. i learned this tactic last year while holding signs for dem candidates on election day. another sign holder was a card carrying hestonite who maybe at first sounded reasonable to the other three middle of the road types also standing holding signs. by the time i got him to fully explain his frighteningly twisted views, the other ladies had backed away and were trying to look engaged in their sign holding.
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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. She replied to my post about the economy too
this is what I don't understand about what you are saying...The economy was on the upswing when, that huge economic expansion of which you speak, was cranking up and ready to go, this type of thing doesn't just happen over night. When Clinton Stepped in this was going full steam ahead.

Clintons budget proposal was viewed with gloom and doom by republicans...again..budgets for something as large as a nation take years to put completely in place and begin to see the benefits or pitfalls of it..so here you have Clinton coming in as the economy is gearing up to rally...a few months later he makes a budget proposal, the budget is passed, but a few years after all of his proposals are finally implemented and put in place, that booming economy begins to crumble..and finally starts falling all to hell about a year before his term ended and by the time he is out the markets are crashing all over the place.

Do you really believe (and I promise Im not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to understand your point of view) that just because he made a budget proposal and it passed that it INSTANTLY cause the economy to to great things? Come on..it takes time for those types of things to show what will actually happen, and sure enough a few years later...look at the mess this country was in economy wise..

Surely you don't believe that it turned all great b/c of his proposal instantly and that a couple of months after Bush came into office he sucked so bad that HE could put us in this position instantly!?

It took years to Get us in this mess and will take years to get us out of this mess.



Argh!!
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