We lost the war !

[kentuck]

We lost it when we let fear be our compass. We lost it when we followed the ill-advised direction of George W Bush. We lost it when we let them pass the Patriot Act. We lost it when we let them spend the national fortune on this adventure of personal revenge. We lost it when our representatives forfeited their responsibilities in matters of war. We lost it when the world turned against us. We lost it when a large proportion of Americans were too uneducated and unsophisticated to know when they were being lied to. We lost it when we decided to go it alone. We lost it when we gave up our freedoms and rights for generations to come. We lost this war in so many ways.

[chadm]

1. The terrorists are winning

We are all victims to the terrorism perpetuated by this country and others. And at the same time ware all responsible because we loyally pay our taxes.

On 9-11, somebody was trying to destroy our freedoms. They're winning.

[GirlinContempt]

12. I've never really understood...

the whole 'trying to destory freedoms' thing.

[ixion]

2. yep... we certainly did

and now the only thing (the appropriate thing) for us to do would be to repeal the patriot act, pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, beg the forgiveness of the interantional community, and start acting like a civilized nation once again, rather than a nation of barbarians.

Anyone think that's actually going to happen?

I'd like to think so, then I see what's being reported and I know that we're a very long way from even beginning to do something along these lines. :-(

on edit: oh yeah, and we need to send the entire Bush admin to the Hague. :grr:

[indepat]

8. Well said: might I add pay whatever reparations would be appropriate

under the circumstances?

[ixion]

14. yep.. good addition

thanks... :hi:

[GirlinContempt]

13. Oh oh oh

And agree to obey international law.
No veto's this time.

[Brucey]

3. We only lost some battles, the war

isn't over yet... there is a sliver of hope... look over the long haul, we have made progress in some areas. My hypothesis is that progress is made in areas that the popular culture embraces. Gay rights, for example, has made some strides, even from a conservative Supreme Court. I think maybe TV, movies, magazines, etc. made this happen, not politics or rhetoric. What other areas have advanced because of pop culture, and where have we won battles through logic and reason?

[Solomon]

4. Thanks Kentuck

I was ridiculed by my friends and others when I announced that we lost the war as soon as we dropped the first bomb. As soon as it became clear that Saddam was too smart to use wmd's (if he had them), I knew that the war was lost.

Americans still won't admit it though. We're still telling ourselves that we kicked ass. Sad sad, isn't it.?

We need to turn everything over to another authority and get the hell out of Iraq. It's total bullshit that we are the only ones who can fix Iraq. Our greed for profits won't let us withdraw.

Why can't Haliburton, Bechtel, Brown & Root, etc. pay for their own security forices if they want to muck around over there. Why are our tax dollars paying for it?

We sat back and watched Afghanistan bankrupt the Soviet Union. Now we are doing the same thing with Iraq.

The only issue now, is can we turn it back in time to recover, even if we win '04.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. you are correct

:cry:

[G_j]

6. and if we lose

the battle for the environment, we will have lost it ALL.

[chaumont58]

7. What'ch you mean 'WE", white man?

I voted for Gore, not Bush and certainly not Nader. I don't have any guilt over the gang that can't shoot straight currently occupying the White House.
Want to blame someone? Blame the beltway whores for 24/7 lies in 2000 and again in 2002.
My conscience is clear.

[kentuck]

9. Not you personally, chaumont58...

But "we" as part of America, though we are not part of America that cheerleaded for this war...

[Chef]

10. Lost

If one thought about it, what wold a "win" be and which war, terror or Iraq?

We (the U.S.)lost when Bush was appointed. That brought in this gang of incompentents and plutocrats and set the stage for every thing afterward. When OB's gang did their thing, what was he trying to accomplish? He couldn't have thought by bringing down the towers, that we would implode? Did he just want us to leave Saudi Arabia? (which we are doing)or, did he think that the whole Arab world would rise up?

Who knows what the result was that he was after? The result he got is really quite amazing. He helped infuse power in to a nasty, not too bright, bungler who was headed to oblivion. He caused us to spend a fortune on military hardware that was useless against this enemy. He helped elect a more reactionary congress in 2002. He allowed the administration to curtail the rights of our own citizens. He helped this country's leaders become disliked around the world because of their jingomania to conduct an unneccessary war. The list goes on. Its almost like a martial arts demonstration where you use your opponents weight to defeat him.

So, did Ossama win? If you figure that maybe one day we will rub him out, I don't think he will of lost. The damage we have done (and continue to do) to ourselves was probably enough to to consider it a win for him. We just got suckered into the terrible middle east mess in a big way. As far as Iraq is concerned, since we didn't need to go there in the first place because they had nothing to do with 9/11 and the reasons given were bogus, there is no winning. There was nothing to win. The long term will determine just how much we lost in the big picture.

I know one thing. If Bush is rewarded with the election next year, the terrorists will have won for sure.

[Solomon]

11. We don't have much time, do we?

Even if we win 0'4, it will not guarantee we can turn it around and civilize ourselves. Some of the dem candidates would continue what Bush started rather than end it now.

[JackDragna]

15. We didn't lose the war..

..because we never fought a war, at least for the reasons we gave. The invasion of Iraq was meant as a political tool to increase the president's popularity, not to do anything for Iraq. If you accept that the president had no intention of helping the Iraqi people, the motives for what went on become crystal clear.