How Going "Nuclear" Could Work For Jeb... (maybe)

[incapsulated]

I know the majority here believes that there is no way Jeb moving in at midnight and taking Terri could possibly result in anything other than his self-destruction. And you all may be right, in fact, the good money is probably on that outcome.

But. There is another possibility to consider, given the timing, the public's capriciousness and just the fact that no one can predict the outcome of this mess with complete certainty (who thought it would go this far?)

Midnight. Good Friday. Jeb sends the stormtroopers in to save Terri, taking her into custody and reinserting the feeding tube. Any potential dust up and violence will not be seen live by the majority of people, who will have gone to bed. They will wake up to learn that Terri is now back on the feeding tube, view the tears of grateful parents now that their daughter's life has been "saved" and updates on her continuing "improvement" and that she has a "second chance at life". There will be mention of the "Good Friday Miracle" and a great showing of family supporters on Easter Sunday.

Because Jeb has 24 hours, and then the entire weekend, the court proceedings will not resume until Monday and may drag on for days.

Remember now, Schiavo will be irate, and now he and the courts are in the position of wanting to get her back to remove the tube again and cause her death. Now, that isn't a very enviable position to be in, now that she will be "regaining her health" out of the control of himself or the courts until the next week.

The public, initially supportive of the court decision, will also be in a weird head-space. Maybe now the idea of taking her off support yet again, now that she has "recovered" will seem unsavory. The idea of the State Police going in there, not to "rescue her and save her life!!!" but to take her back to the hospital to end it, again, now seems... oh, not so righteous. Jeb will plead for her life and play the martyr. Her family and their supporters will vow to lay down their lives and promise violence if the police move on Terry. "We won't let you kill her! We will die protecting her!" etc.

Now, the public, capricious as they are, start to say, "oh, why not just leave her be?"

You start to see how this can turn into a not so black and white simple "win" for anyone. And that is good enough for the repukes because if the courts do get Terri back to the hospital, and the tube is removed again, possibly after a violent confrontation, everyone is left with a bad taste in their mouths and blame is spread everywhere, not just onto Bush, DeLay and Co.

[RPM]

1. send in the troops tonight

just like at Gethsemane... :eyes:

[incapsulated]

2. Oh, they would use all sorts of religious symbolic language

Especially with Easter coming.

[RPM]

3. yeah, but in my version....

that would make jebbie the bad guy :-)

[incapsulated]

5. But those using that language

Will be the ones on his side, we don't use that language.

I just feel that people aren't considering what will happen after the "big rescue" only focusing on the outrageousness of the action itself.

[RPM]

8. just play along with me....

whip em into a frenzy on their terms and make them realize they are the bad guys ;)

[Mike Daniels]

6. This is going to turn into a figurative Passion Play

especially if the time spent off the feeding tube didn't do any major permanent damage to her internal systems.

Hell, I imagine we'll see footage of Terri resting peacefully just in time for Easter breakfast if Jeb Bush carries this off successfully.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. yes but.... we also have a country wiht a very strong

libertarian streak.

Keep the gov'ment off my death bed....

Also Jeb will be opening himself to impeachment and criminal charges

I think truly jeb is now in a no win situation

[incapsulated]

9. As I said

That opinion may well be right, but I'm thinking past the intitial event and the possiblities thereafter.

That said, the possibility of Jeb doing this is slim, but who knows anymore. I feel like I'm in looney land already.

[atreides1]

7. Just a few problems

There are some problems with your fantasy scenario.

1. They would have to get rid of every single MSM crew that are currently in place. The minute the stormtroopers move in to do that it will be aired all over the world.

2. The end result of the violence could be several memebers of the Pinellas Sheriff's Department being wounded, or worse killed by State troopers. Not to mention that some civilians could get caught up in a crossfire and be hurt or killed also.

What could be the result is that Jeb, along with any State troopers stupid enough to obey his orders would then be murderers, kidnappers,
and least of all in contempt of court orders.

I don't really believe that even one of the cherished Bush boys could make the killing of law enforcement officers look like something that was needed.

[incapsulated]

10. Wait...

I never said the violence wouldn't be seen, just that it wouldn't be seen live by the majority of americans.

The potential for violence in taking Terri on Friday is minimal. The potential for violence in taking her back from Jeb is there, but I think that the most harm would be done to those "protecting" her not the other way around. Police would have to get to her, and they would stand in their way.

[Tansy_Gold]

18. There may be a parallel here to when the Gov. of Ohio called out

the NG to Kent State.

Had innocent students not been killed in that fiasco, it probably wouldn't have made much difference. It was the killing of innocents that caused the outrage.

I don't think there's much hope that a confrontation in Florida could AVOID killing or seriously injuring civilians. Plus, it would be one law enforcement agency vs. another, and that's not going to please anyone.

Given the focus of the media on this 24/7 right now, there's no way the media is going to get shut out. The minute some force moves in and orders the media out, the outrage meter will go off the scale. People on-site will be on their cell phones, and within minutes, the entire world will be alerted.

I don't think Jeb can do it "secretly," and I don't think he can win otherwise.

But I also believe that if he does try it, we will all lose something.

[brooklynite]

25. There is a very important difference...

between the situation here and that of Kent State or Elian Gonzales: there are other law-enforcement officials empowered by the Judge to enforce the current standing decisions who are in the way. In the event of a conflict (both sides effectively claiming jurisdiction), I find it hard to believe that they're likely to shoot it out in the parking lot; far more likely is that each side with buck the issue up the chain of command, delaying the end result and allow the media more time to bring the issue to the public's attention.

[Demit]

11. Except these last few days have helped the realization to dawn that

this is way, way more than about one person. First there is the unease among regular folk that the government is trying to horn in on private matters that have been long understood to be legally assured, and now are endangered. Don't forget those 70% and 82% polls. Then there is the astoundingly radical sight of a governor defying the laws of the state. I don't think this is going to play well for Jebbie at all.

Your scenario is believable, I can see them thinking that way, but the fundies are still only about 20% of the populace. I think regular people are going to get frightened at the sight of a government throwing out the rules, acting out of control, and I think opinion will go against such defiance.

[incapsulated]

14. All they need to do...

Is wittle that public support down to 50% percent, with the right propoganda and the nature of people to change their minds for no damn good reason.

I don't trust the "public" on anything, anymore.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Jeb Bush won't go nuclear on the Schiavo case

Not even a crook like Nixon went nuclear when SCOTUS ruled against him on the Watergate tapes.

We can't have Presidents and Governors going around disregarding the law. As the top law enforcer in Florida, Jeb Bush will be courting with impeachment and contempt of court if he were to disregard Judge Greer's order against the Department of Children & Families.

Regardless of the urging from Larry Klayman and Pat Robertson, the smarter of the Bush brothers will not go nuclear on the Schiavo case.

Schindler v. Schiavo is over, as far as litigation and state and federal action goes!

The underlying issue is another matter altogether, and it may well be with us in 2006 and 2008.

[incapsulated]

15. I'm not saying he will do this

I'm saying that if he does, this is how it could go, it's just a possibility.

But I think you give the rethugs far to much theoretical respect for the law. Remember they already trampled on the seperation of powers to get us to this point. And the Bushes make Nixon look like a good guy.

[Walt Starr]

13. MAJOR PROBLEM: There are cameras on site

and they are rolling 24X7 until this thing is resolved once and for all.

And we are talking about cameras from news agencies the world over. There would be tape and it would be viewed.

And take into account, Judge Greer has ordered the Penellas County Sheriffs to keep her in the hospice and allow nobody in. They are armed. Jeb would send in the State Troopers, and they are also armed. Two armed governmental forces would meet with deadly force and opposing orders.

It would be violent. It would be taped, and law enforcement officials would have to take the lives of other law enforcement officials.

Honest assessment of the potential outcome? Here's a realistic look.

The state boys come in. The sheriffs say, "No way." They hand them Judge Greer's orders, and the state boys walk away. They cannot controvene a lawful order from an officer of the court. Law enforcement officals are officers of the court. Judge Greer is an officer of the court. To follow Jeb Bush's orders once they have been given a lawful order from a judge would be a criminal act and eevery law enforcement officer in the country knows that.

[incapsulated]

16. I'm not sure that is true

"Judge Greer is an officer of the court. To follow Jeb Bush's orders once they have been given a lawful order from a judge would be a criminal act and eevery law enforcement officer in the country knows that."

From what I understand he has 24 hours to hold her, how could that be if it were a violation of the law?

I would like to know for sure if anyone does, I can't keep up on all the legalities of this subject!

[Walt Starr]

17. Because, Greer issued an order that she cannot be taken from the hospice

To violate that order would be a felony. Any law enforcement officer who does so would be facing felony charges and would do time.

Greer specifically ruled on this today. There is nothing they can do *legally*. Any action on the part of Bush at this time would be *illegal*. Anybody acting on orders from Bush at this time would also be breaking the law. They would be flagrantly and openly criminals.

The only wat to controvene Greer's order would be to file charges and arrest Greer.

[incapsulated]

19. So where are they getting

This "he can keep her for 24 hours" from?

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just repeating what I've heard/read.

If it's outright illegal, then there is no way the cops would do it, you are correct.

[Walt Starr]

20. It's a part of a law for protecting adults in danger of abuse

It was designed for the victims of elderly abuse. The problem is, they've gone to court already and been told, "NO." And to make the NO stikc, Greer issued a restraining order. So now, if Jebbie goes in, he's a felon.

[incapsulated]

21. Ah...

I wasn't aware of the restraining order, just the ruling.

Well, then I can't see how he could possibly do this, if law enforcement wouldn't do it for him, short of going in there strapped with expolosives and taking her by force himself.

[incapsulated]

23. But, you said yourself he would send in troopers

And cause a standoff. Why would the troopers violate the law?

[Walt Starr]

24. I thin he will do it because he's that insane and that far into a corner

It's hard to say what the troopers will do once they get there.

[grumpy old fart]

22. Say Jeb leaves the troopers out of it, deputizes some Talibush thugs...

who wouldn't give a flip about facing off with police, and Jeb's gang walks in the place....Sheriff's gonna shoot Jeb?