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Come back, Bill! All is forgiven!

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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:02 PM
Original message
Come back, Bill! All is forgiven!
OK, who here is liking Bill Clinton better since he stopped being president?

I know I am probably in the minority, but while Clinton was in office I was constantly feeling frustrated and let down by him. It started with the gays in the military thing--don't ask, don't tell, don't have a spine and stand up to Sam fucking Nunn--and it just sort of got worse. His bombing Iraq in the middle of Lewinskygate was, for me, the last straw, and I ranted about this at length, in between ranting at length about Ken Starr and the trumped-up witch hunt they organized around the Lewinsky thing:

http://www.plaidder.com/critind.htm

But since he left office, he's starting to sound more like the candidate I had such high hopes for when I voted for him in 1992. It is not an exaggeration to say that when Bill won that election, Liza and I actually experienced a kind of patriotic rebirth. I drove 6 hours to attend his inauguration, even though I was too far away to see anything, and then when I got back I made a cake with a picture of the Capitol on it and we put some candles on it and sang the national anthem to it. We really felt like this was the birth of a much better country.

Maybe our expectations were too high; or maybe, as we always thought, Clinton was too willing to lower his. Maybe the process just inevitably produces weaker politics; or maybe Clinton just didn't stand up to it as well as someone else might have. In any case, thinking about what happened with him does give me pause as I consider the other candidates. It isn't just about what they sound like *now*; it's about what happens after they take office. It is true, as I often say, that a ham sandwich would be an improvement. But since we have the choice, we really ought to try to think about who will, over the long term, be Mr. or Ms. Right, as opposed to Mr. or Ms. Right On, Right Now.

Anyway, this morning NPR played that clip of him telling a wildly enthusiastic audience that if they didn't settle down, he'd start thinking he was president again. Liza said, "Yeah, I wish he *would* come back and declare the Americlintonian Year Zero." And you know what, right now, I would go for that too, because next to what we've had for the past three years, Bill Clinton looks like Albert Einstein, Eugene V. Debs and Abraham Lincoln all rolled into one.

Well, maybe I am not the only person who has learned from the Bush Experience. I'm not saying that the lesson is to move to the center; I still don't think that works. After all, Clinton didn't get himself elected as a centrist, even though he ended up governing that way. But maybe America has figured out, over the past three years, that there are worse things a man can do in office than mess around with an intern. Maybe some of the people who turned on him over Monica are now thinking, "Come back, Bill! Have as many interns as you want! Better to be screwing them than screwing the country!"

If that is what's happening, then it can only be an improvement in terms of the political climate in this country. So maybe, in the end, there will be *some* good that has come out of the Bush presidency: the realization finally penetrating the electorate that sexual morality is not the only kind of morality that matters, and that being a good family man does not make you a good president if it also means that you are a thieving, lying, callous, warmongering, pockets-of-Halliburton-lining sonofabitch.

Look, silver lining,

The Plaid Adder
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. I ALWAYS liked him ...
the Big Dog is God!
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Love me some Big Dog!
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bill Clinton was in Iowa
Bill Clinton in Iowa Saturday made so much sense. Bill Clinton is one of the best things that ever happened to this country. I love really smart, articulate people.
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LearnedHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm wit' yew!!!
I was SO frustrated when he was in office that he appeared to be indecisive at times, and at times didn't back the causes I thought he should back. And when the ML thing "broke," I was really damned disgusted -- NOT because I gave a flying fig what he did with Little Willie, but because he always chose the Bimbos. (Meanwhile, he was surrounded with the world's most powerful, intelligent women. <sigh>

BUT, he's blossomed into the elder statesman we have craved, for sure. You KNOW it's got to frustrate the replicant-publicans to know end that this country JUST WON'T HATE THE MAN!

:bounce:
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Oh Bill.... I forgive you for the 8 years of prosperity...
What the fuck are you people talking about... Forgive him? I forgive you for er forgiving the best President of the last 40 years.... BTW: It wasn't Iraq he bombed in the middle of the repuke witch hunt... He went after Bin Laden....
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. He bombed Iraq AND the Sudan and Afghanistan.
Look, I'm not saying his presidency was eight years of putritude, I'm just saying there was a lot of it that disappointed me. Your mileage obviously varies.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Those events pale to nonexistence compared to what W has done....
...and when you add in the failing economy, the complete waste of a budget surplus that was supposed to last for ten years, the degradation of civil liberties, and the creation of tens of thousands of new Islamic militants who want to kill all of us, I'd say that the Big Dog did a pretty damn good job while president.

At least Clinton had the respect of the leaders of the rest of the world. He also didn't resort to petty name-calling campaigns when a country didn't behave the way he thought they should.

Clinton was also legally elected...twice.

You were disappointed by Clinton's presidency? Interesting.
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Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Two plain speaking folksy talking Presidents.
The once we have now sounds like a dunce. Our former President sounds like the brilliant scholar he is, but he makes what he says accessible and understood by everyone. Any disappointment any of us had about Clinton while in office has certainly been dissipated with Dumbya presently in office. The stark contrast has certainly made us reevaluate what we thought of Clinton and appreciate him even more.
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. It's a shame we can't run a Clinton/Carter ticket.
Or Carter/Clinton. Whichever.

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder
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Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I hope that whoever wins if he is a Democrat in the next
election will find a cabinet position for Bill and even Carter if he wants to do it at his age. Also, Bill is making so much money now that I doubt if he would want to either. )-:
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Forgive him for what? 8 years of peace and prosperity?
Maybe now, after having a dem in the White House again, the left will learn to be more supportive. Clinton battled all alone a GOP congress, Dems in congress, the VRWC AND liberals like you (and oblivious ones like me). And he won plenty for us considering! Just read The Clinton Wars for a bit of perspective. I for one promise to stay vigilent and defend our new Dem president against the future predictable attacks of the fascists.
Clinton has nothing to apologize for! I will apologize to him for not joining Moveon and doing something!
It's time for the left to measure their expectations in realistic terms.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. What are we twins robbedvoter
see post 8... LOL
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Ha!ha! Glad I'm not alone!
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. what about the four years of AL we didn't get?
NO ONE even try and tell me AL wouldn't have won by a landslide of big dog had acted less like a dog and more like a president.

all is NOT forgiven.....
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Gore won by a landslide (6 million not counted nationally)
You can obsess on his BJ all you want, Gore won and they stole it - I have enough of blaming the Clenis!

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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. i'm not obsessed with the dog
but it sure seems some people are.

gawd....he blows not only his presidency but Al's shot to do what clinton was afraid of doing and undo the crap he did do and all is forgiven because of a couple speeches.

pardon me....for not being so forgiving about the man that screwed us all. s'cuse me for needing more than a warm fuzzy feeling from my president. forgive me for not being a freakin sap.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. I loved the guy
the entire time the repukes were making his life a living friggin hell! He is definitely the best thing to happen to us. Look at what he did for our country. I am amazed he accomplished as much as he did while being harassed for 8 years. I LOVE Bill Clinton! Then and Now! I love Hillary, too! :bounce:
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I think Bill and Hillary will make a powerful duo in the coming years.
I'd like to see them both help rout the republicans from the white house and congress. Their advice and campaigning would be invaluable, and I would love to see Dean let his fire out and throw bush onto an unemployment line.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. As much as I enjoy and miss Clinton
I prefer the slightly wonky speaches of Al Gore. Clinton has all the stature of an incredibly charismatic, handsome and soulful ex-pres. I think Gore is a finer man and more liberal.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Love Clinton but chocolate truffles are really yummy! Why hijack
a thread like that? Start a Gore thread and I gladly join in praise.
But comparisons between the two I leave to the wingnuts.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe Clinton should be saying that to all of his fair-weather friends...
...like you, apparently.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. And this was the best post in the thread! Bravo!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. I love that man!
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