Why you dislike Zell Miller

[Hippo_Tron]

Currently I'm a supporter of this guy but I am interested to see other prespectives so those of you who dislike him please post why.

[Fixated]

1. .....

He has voted with the GOP almost 100% of the time during his term...

[FauxNewsBlues]

6. Bush Overtime rules

6 republicans broke ranks and voted with the democrats to not let Bush classify more people as salary employees and allow their employers to not give them overtime.

One democrat voted to let people get screwed this way. Just one democrat. Zell Miller. Enough said.

[Hippo_Tron]

8. Good reason

This is the type of reason I am looking for.

[southern democrat]

26. I use to call him Give'em hell Zell

But the man changed when he went to the seante.I can think of no one who calls themselves a Democrat that currently hurting our party and causes as much as Zell Miller.I can remember at the Democratic convention Zell gave a great speech,he was Georgia's governor then.It was truly inspiring,but I think the Clinton scandals embarrased him.They shouldn't have but I think they did.He got caught up in bible belt morality and he hasn't been the same since.I believe his motivation now is either wanting to be an reverse John McCain or a Democratic hack for Bush,one whitle-ass can count on when he needs a Democrat.I personally think he's more the latter.Conviction dosen't motivate Zell Miller,with him it's more a matter of being in the in crowd.Otherwards,being politically correct in the south.He has sold his values for helping the poor and middle class,helping the enviornment,civil rights,organized labor,about all of the traditional Democratic causes,for the gun nuts,anti-aboritionists,tax cut for the wealthy,bible thumping hypocritical conservitives.Not that he believes in them,but because he wants to fit in with southern conservitive crowd.Most of the time they are completely wrong and most of the time now Zell Miller is wrong.Like I say I use to call him give'em hell Zell,now I call him GO TO HELL ZELL!

[Classical_Liberal]

2. Supported War and Tax cuts

and criticizes Dems more than repukes, when repukes clearly are more problematic than Dems.

[curlyred]

3. are you a democrat?

How can you support someone who votes with the Republicans damn near every time?

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Because...

I do agree with Republicans on some issues and some of them are the issues Zell votes yes on. Not to say I agree the Republicans nearly as much as him (mostly the tax cut).

[curlyred]

11. If you agree with the way Zell Miller votes, as you say-

The you may want to consider a party switch.

And his treatment of Cleland made me ashamed of the state of my birth.

[Prodemsouth]

18. What about the way he treated Max did you not like? i don't like Zell

consider him a traitor, but a part of me is sad also, because he was a good Governor, and more of a real Dem while Governor than many of his Dem predessor governors. We got our first Republican party affilated Geovernor in 2002, first one in over a hundred years. He was in a lot of TV ads about Max.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. Because I have a strong distaste for the local GOP and...

Because I generally believe in Democratic ideals, I just sometimes agree with the way Zell votes.

[DEMActivist]

4. An alien has possessed our ex-Governor

The Zell Miller in Washington is NOT the same man who was a 2 term Governor of this state.

There's no other answer except that a republican minded alien has abducted Zell and taken his place.

[Racenut20]

5. Why Not Zell?

A party to the right wing religious bigots led by Ralph Reed (you do remember him) that spread the lies, etc about Max Cleland.

[oasis]

9. For starters, Zell backstabbed Cynthia McKinney.

Zell shunned Cynthia who he previously asked to help him in his campaign for the senate and backed Denise Majette, who like himself, is another Dino.

[Prodemsouth]

19. Your right here and this cost the Democrats the Governorship and senate

through the 90s races were tight. Then around 10 Cynthia's numbers start coming in and most of ticket esp top three statewide seats go to the Dems. I think this why he is not running because he knows he screwed the party, and they know he screwed them.

[Vadem]

10. Good riddance to Zell Miller!

He was a semi-liberal when he came into the Senate. Then he voted 99% of the time with the Repubs! What happened to him??? Inquiring minds want to know?

[myomy]

12. ..and I thought his name was Zero Ziller.

.

[mndemocrat_29]

13. His constant support of Bush's nominees

His votes on the tax cuts, his votes on overtime.

I don't expect him to be as liberal as Boxer, but I do expect him to back us more than he does. I can't wait until we have Andy Young, a truly great Democrat, in the Senate.

[Prodemsouth]

21. I don't know about that, Andy is more a real dem, but he has become

more conservative recently. Don't know about his chances in the General Election.

[roughsatori]

14. You said you will vote for Lieberman unless Clark runs?

I thought I read that in another thread. Now you support Zell Miller. Do you see Wesley Clark as being as moderate as Miller and Lieberman? I don't mean this as an attack at all. I am curious if you view Clark as a liberal or a moderate.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. I view Clark as a moderate...

And I meant that if Clark runs I will drop any support I once had for Lieberman. Currently my first choice is Kerry with Lieberman in second. Once Clark announces he will be my first and Kerry will be my second. And while Clark is definately more liberal than Lieberman I it is mostly on social issues and I view myself as mostly a social liberal.

[roughsatori]

33. Thanks for the answer Hippo_Tron NT

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. Please explain to me how one can appreciate Kerry AND Miller

Their votes and positions on issues are diametrically opposed. An what things do you agree with Republicans on? Fiscal responsibility? When have they demonstrated any?

[NewJerseyDem]

15. Some reasons

First of all, my biggest problem is his need to actively support republicans like his alliance with republicans on tax cuts. He has also actively campaigned against the democrat filibusters while someone like Ben Nelson who opposes all the filibusters has just stayed quiet. Miller is often used by the republicans so that they can claim to be bipartisan in their efforts.

Now, some specific votes.

He has sided with republicans on...

2003 tax cuts
2001 tax cuts
Iraq war
Overtime Rules changes
Judicial nominees
ANWR drilling
Details of prescription drugs plan
Homeland Securty funding
Union protection in Homeland Securtiy Department
Partial-birth Abortion ban
Fuel efficiency standards
Africa AIDs funding
Ashrcroft Nomination
Gays in the Boys Scouts
Participation in International Criminal Court

In general he votes with the republicans on almost every little amendment. If you look at almost every tight vote in the senate Miller votes with the republicans.

[KamaAina]

16. He has a 30% ADA rating

which puts him fifth or sixth from the top...

...in the Repuke party.

Chafee and a few others are ahead of him.

Next biggest Senate DINO is Ben Nelson (NE) at a fence-straddling 50%.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. As A Southerner

I used to like Zell Miller... Any friend of Bill is a friend of mine.... I could even tolerate his conservative voting record but I drew the line when he wrote a book trashing the Democratic party....


Bye Bye Zell Miller.... Good riddance to bad rubbish...

[goobergunch]

20. Earlier in the year National Journal gave him a 3.7% party loyalty rating

furthermore, he always co-sponsors Repuke legislation and then the Repukes call it "bipartisan"...e.g. the * tax cuts.

[0007]

22. Hum it sweetheart hum it!

LOL!! did ya just get out of jail?

[Dr Fate]

23. He betrayed GA Democrats who trusted him to reflect DEM values...

He appears to be in lock step with Bush on everything from taxes to Iraq...

[Rowdyboy]

24. Two words...Miguel Estrada...

By refusing to support the filibuster, Miller is willing to let * stack the courts with his flying monkeys. I resent him.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. I have to disagree somewhat

I think if he attempted to stop the fillibuster he is doing just that but I don't think he should be resented for not participating in a fillibuster.

[Rowdyboy]

35. Intellectually, my friend, I think filibustering judicial appointments...

is very bad business. But what choice do we have-unilateral disarmament? During six years of Clinton's presidency (1994-2000) Orrin Hatch and Trent Lott piously kept Bill Clinton's judicial nominees bottled up. Should we now just lie down and submit when Bush wants to put every hick, redneck, know-nothing asshole in Alabama (and elsewhere) on the federal bench?

Its not like they don't confirm judges. Only the MOST right-wing fanatics are even questioned. Sometimes, you must draw the line.

[ulysses]

25. BECAUSE HE'S AN ASS

[The Icon Painter]

27. He is confused about his duty.

He stated that as a former Marine, he was required to obey his CIC without question or doubt. I do not want a professional Marine as my senator; I want a man not sworn to unquestioning obedience.

[Walt Starr]

31. Because he's a DINO

Seriously, he votes more with the Republicans than many Republicans.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. Okay I have another question...

How about Max Baucus and John Breaux, while they don't vote Republican as much as Zell Miller they do have a tendancy to work with Republicans on legislation and call it bipartisan (weather it really is or not). I'm not provoking anything here, I'm just curious about how people view the right/center end of the Democratic party.

[Walt Starr]

34. It's very simple how I view the right end of the Democratic Party

Where I come from, we call 'em Republicans.

[Rowdyboy]

37. And I take the opposite view...

Breaux and Baucus are moderate Democrats. Liberals can't win in Montana and Louisiana. They deserve respect and support from Democrats unless we want to be in the minority forever.

[ButterflyBlood]

42. NCEC ratings for so far this year:

Baucus: 75
Breaux: 50
Miller: 0

that's right, he didn't vote the liberal stance on one issue. There's a difference between moderate Democrats like Breaux and Baucus and Zell. Breaux and Baucus don't be the only Democrats to vote for a radical right agenda, and then don't rip into their own party more than they do to the Repukes.

[usregimechange]

36. hehe

He is too Joe Lieberman!

[ButterflyBlood]

39. Because he is just as reliable a vote...

for the radical right wing agenda as Trent Lott.

[livin_indirt]

40. He's from Georgia, a heavily repuke state.

What else do you need to know about him?

[ButterflyBlood]

41. not really heavily Repuke

the state's about 30% black, the Dems have both houses of the legislature and all the state offices except Chambliss's senate seat and the governorship, both of which were taken last year, and in the case of the governorship was held by the Democrats for more than 100 years.

And that's exactly the point, Zell could be more liberal than he is. Sure Paul Wellstone couldn't get elected in Georiga, but the Democrat doesn't need to be a Trent Lott clone to win.

[livin_indirt]

43. I'll buy that with reservation

Please explain the Chambliss and Gov. thing. Aren't they statewide?

[ButterflyBlood]

44. that's what I meant

those are the only statewide offices that Democrats don't have. Now that I looked it up though the Superintendent and Insurance Commisioner are also Repukes, but that's still a Dem majority in state offices, and the legislature.

It's also worth pointing out Zell has said that he won't endorse anyone in the election for his seat, but he'll resign after the election so the winner can be appointed to have additional seniority and a head start. So he's basically expecting a Repuke to win the seat and he's going to give that Repuke an edge.

[livin_indirt]

46. uhoh? Democrats control Georgia? What a surprise.

How do they do it? I'd a never thunk it!!!!!!!!

[ButterflyBlood]

47. well the state was solidly Democratic until the 60's

and the "southern strategy." so a lot of the Democrats are just holdovers who haven't switched parties yet, like Zell. But it's also 30% black so you already have a large block of the vote Democratic automatically, and some white areas are liberal (mostly college towns from what I've heard.) So while ultra-liberals can't get elected because a lot of the Dems are conservative, Cleland and Barnes were no DINOs, moderates yes but not DINOs. Zell doesn't need to act the way he does to win there, and the DLC argument that he makes the party more appealing to moderates is total bullshit. If Zell is voting 100% with the right wing wackos in the Senate, he is not voting the way mainstream America agrees with, or what most Americans want.

[Doomsayer13]

45. Trying to bust the Democratic Filibuster was the last straw

I used to be the opinion that Zell Miller may have been a conservative Dem but at least he'd campaign for his fellow Dems (like Max Cleland, which he did) and vote for leadership. But in his latest attempt to change senate rules to break the Democratic filibuster of Bush's judicial nominees, he's proven that he has no party loyalty and that it will matter little whether he's a Democrat or not.

Moderation isn't a crime, but betraying your party is. Even Ben Nelson hasn't the audacity of trying to change Senate rules for the other side's advantage. Since Zell is retireing, good riddance.

[Rowdyboy]

48. As sad as I am to say it...

I agree with you... I wasn't worried when Zell was appointed, I expected him to be a moderate. Instead, he became the flag-bearer for the far-right.

I don't think I have ever been so totally shocked and angered by a politician. I sang his praises a few years ago. Today, I just wish he would go away.

[fujiyama]

49. While I don't like Zell

and it's obvious he has the worst record when it comes to party loyalty (he probably votes more with the GOP than several moderate Northern Republicans)...I have to say, I'm curious if Dems can win back that seat. The main problem being with how that state votes, and considering Cleland himself lost, I wonder if any democrat can do it.

Zell's obviously an ass, especially for writing the book (though I am admittadly curious what he has to say)...I just think that every extra demnocrat helps in the senate, where the margin is still somewhat close...It's all about controlling the agenda and I would like to have Daschle back as the majority leader (though I think he's weak)...Other than that reason, I would love to see someone else that votes with the party ATLEAST half the time!