Will the -real- Karol Woltyla please stand up.

[ananda]

There's a great article on the problem of papal fallibility in the NY Times, here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/opinion/cahill.html?ex=1270353600&en=e877d0584923bbeb&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

Gadzooks. It's nice to see something honest, straightforward, and historically accurate regarding the controlling reactionary papacy that we've had over the years.

The media blitz for canonizing JPII and putting "great" after his name has been both bizarre and endlessly nauseating.

Sue

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Bob3]

2. Brilliant Analysis -

There were always two sides to JP II one was the kind man who did reach across boundaries and out to others but the other was the Autocratic Pope who ruthlessly suppressed any dissent from what he decreed to be Orthodox Roman Catholic belief.

This quote says it all really:

"In order to have been named a bishop, a priest must have been seen to be absolutely opposed to masturbation, premarital sex, birth control (including condoms used to prevent the spread of AIDS), abortion, divorce, homosexual relations, married priests, female priests and any hint of Marxism."

One final thought:

John XXIII's signature gesture was him opening his arms either to embrace a guest or to symbolically embrace a crowd he was speaking to.
John Paul II's was a wagging finger as he spoke.

Says volumes to me.

[ananda]

5. Yeah

The only thing I found to appreciate about Woltyla was his pacifism.

However, his papacy was so autocratic and reactionary in regards to sexuality that I just found it horrendous. I never could stand the man.

Also, I absolutely deplore the way the Bush admin is exploiting this pope's death for political gain. They even excluded Jimmy Carter, the only politician in America who practices what he preaches, from the funeral. That is just so hypocritical.

ananda

[OneBlueSky]

3. good to see a moderating voice to contrast the John Paul II . . .

hagiography that's been so rampant since his passing . . . I think Cahill has it right -- the Pope will be remembered as a significant historical figure, but not a significant religious figure . . .

[mmonk]

4. he can't

[kweerwolf]

6. This speaks volumes

"In contrast, Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston rebuked the dying Cardinal Bernardin for this effort because, as Cardinal Law insisted, the church knows the truth and is therefore exempt from anything as undignified as dialogue."

And that it comes from Cardinal Law, the on-the-lam enabler of pedophile priests, makes it even more ironic. ... And sad.