The Library of Congress has asked to archive one of our Pope threads.

[Skinner]

You all might be interested in this request we got today. Considering the massive number of threads we had on DU about the Pope, I kinda wonder how they chose this particular thread. :shrug:

Anyway, I thought this project sounded interesting. Check it out.

To Whom It May Concern:

The United States Library of Congress preserves the Nation's cultural artifacts and provides enduring access to them. The Library's traditional functions, acquiring, cataloging, preserving and serving collection materials of historical importance to the Congress and to the American people to foster education and scholarship, extend to digital materials, including Web sites. The Library has selected your site for inclusion in the historic collection of Internet materials related to the death of Pope John Paul II and the election of a new Pope. The following URL has been selected:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3410457

The Library of Congress or its agent will engage in the collection of content from your Web site at regular intervals. The Library will make this collection available to researchers onsite at Library facilities. The Library also wishes to make the collection available to offsite researchers by hosting the collection on the Library's public access Web site. The Library hopes that you share its vision of preserving Web materials about the death of Pope John Paul II and permitting researchers from across the world to access them.

If you agree to permit offsite access to your materials through the Library's Web site, please click the following link to signify your consent.

(link removed by admin)

If you have questions, comments or recommendations concerning the Pope John Paul II Web Archive, please e-mail the Library's Minerva Web Preservation Project at [e-mail] at your earliest convenience.

Thank You,

Minerva Web Preservation Project
Library of Congress
[e-mail]
http://www.loc.gov/minerva

[Fenris]

1. Weird.

Very weird. Cool, though.

[asthmaticeog]

83. That's beyond weird ---

you'd think they'd have picked a thread that *I* posted in. :wtf:

[SheepyMcSheepster]

2. strange choice of threads

:shrug:

[MsTryska]

22. I agree.....

it seems like a lot of empty space in that one. but whatever - DU makes it into the annals of history. i can get behind that.

[rodeodance]

128. the "Culture of Life" is a cultural phenomena at this moment in history-

Historians will have lots to say about it and its relation to other events in the future. The Terri s. case-Congress telling the courts what to do, the separation of church and state-the list goes on and on.
But only History with a big H knows what they will say/not say-include/not include etc

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Is it too late to add a snarky post to that thread?

:evilgrin:

[paineinthearse]

4. Wow, DU in the national archives

Hope the thread is not lost, like Kennedy's brain was.

[FreedomAngel82]

68. For real

I wonder why that thread. It's just talking about Bush using the Pope for political gain. What are they up to? Or am I just too paranoid and untrusting now days?

[BrklynLiberal]

5. That is pretty damn cool!

:thumbsup: :headbang:

This means you ...and we, I guess, will be a part of history.

[Book Lover]

6. Wow!

Shame they are only asking for one thread; the complete and full spectrum of opinion was expressed all over DU.

I hope you all said yes?

[Skinner]

9. Yes, we granted permission.

I'm a big supporter of this type of academic stuff.

I also sent them an email asking if they would like us to suggest some other threads on the topic.

[Book Lover]

17. Glad to hear it

What a great place DU is :-) And we're important, too!

[northzax]

7. gee, who knew Rodeodance was the librarian of congress?

:shrug:

did you sign the form?

[Pirate Smile]

96. I just bet Rodeodance wishes he used spell check a few times.

:D

[Generator]

8. So the library of congress

is making sure it documents the slide into an American style theocracy heh? Everybody needs to know how these things happen. Piece by miserable piece, the minority take over.

[DrGonzoLives]

10. Well

http://www.loc.gov/acq/devpol/webarchive.html

There's the MINERVA project policy, so it's not a hoax. Just perusing it, though, it sounds like it uses a webcrawler or bot to find this kind of stuff, and sites are recommended internally. Maybe we have a DUer working for the LOC, who knows.

And why the hell don't they archive the true classics, like "Ask Me Anything" from Jesus or "We are all Will Pitt"?

[MissMarple]

19. Interesting. We may be providing "historical sociological data".

Thanks DRGonzoLives!

Perhaps we provide quaint folk views, or "man in the street" perspectives on historical events.

just a little snip...

"As we enter the new century, the Library must begin to acquire and make permanently accessible "born digital" works (i.e. digital materials which do not have an analog equivalent) that are playing an increasingly important role in the intellectual, commercial and creative life of the United States.

The Library of Congress has elected to perform selective collecting, by which the sites captured are determined by Recommending Officers in consultation with the MINERVA Team. The Library selects Web sites for its permanent collections which rank high on the following list of criteria: usefulness in serving the current or future informational needs of Congress and researchers, unique information provided, scholarly content, at risk of loss (due to ephemeral nature of Web sites), and currency of the information.
...

As with any format, the cost of the work and the requirements of serving, cataloging, storing, and preserving must be considered in the decision to collect Web sites. Storage is costly in time and in money; hence the selection must be considered carefully. The technical aspect of a Web site will also need to be considered vis-a-vis the technical feasibility of capturing the site. It is the responsibility of the MINERVA Team to make these decisions.

IV. Research Strengths. Web sites offer up-to-date information on given topics. As such, they may be ephemeral, disappearing after a short period of time, but their impact may be immense and provide historical sociological data that may not be found elsewhere. By amassing a collection of this material at the Library of Congress, we provide to future generations the keys to the interpretation of events that may not be extant anywhere else. Since its inception, the MINERVA Project has collected over 36,000 Web sites, with collections relating to Election 2000, September 11, Olympics 2002, Election 2002, and the 107th Congress."

[Goathead]

109. Funny they should use the name MINERVA, I smell a conspiracy!

:tinfoilhat:If you go to the LOC there is a ton of Minerva imagery all over the place. Sculpture, artwork, etc. There are also little owls hidden throughout the works. The owl was Minerva's totem or familiar. There is also a link between the Illuminati and Minerva.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerva

[LibertyLover]

141. Minerva

Minerva (the Minerva Center actually) is also the name of an organization headed by one of my former professors at George Washington University, Dr. Linda Grant DePauw, for research into women's military history and I can assure you that there is no link between it and the Illuminati.

[onehandle]

11. I wonder which Freeper thread they picked.

One with all the various death threats removed I imagine.

[Meeker Morgan]

50. Speaking of freepers, here's a paranoid thought :

They are archiving the thread so future generations can see what commie-libs were like. :eyes:

[FreedomAngel82]

74. Yep

Gotta love that "pro-life" stance dontcha?

[Lars39]

12. This sentence got my attention:

"The Library of Congress or its agent will engage in the collection of content from your Web site at regular intervals."

Sounds like they are interested in more than just one thread.

[peacetalksforall]

26. "...or its agent..."

Yes, that is weird - could be anything from outsourced work to the Homeland Security=Poindexter data keeping big brother.

Any ideas on who an 'agent' of the LOC might be?

[LostinVA]

38. It most probably refers to other MINERVA libraries

That;'s it. Nothing weird. Certain libraries are part of the MINERVA project. It's very prestigious.

[DearAbby]

48. It was from Agent Mike......>insert secret agent music here<

:evilgrin: they have their eye on DU

[Mist]

124. Yep. That caught my attention too. "Collection of content from

your website" is pretty encompassing.

[Solly Mack]

13. Preserved for history...that's an honor

Congratulations to the posters on that thread....and a special Congratulations to Skinner, EarlG, and Elad.

Well done, everyone!

[GOPFighter]

14. There have been some wonderful, uplifting, intelligent threads...

...on DU. Why this? I didn't see anything in that thread that was particularly worthy of posterity.

[The Doctor.]

23. Hmm... you're right - that thread is a wee bit abrasive.

I thought one of the threads where hundreds of DU'ers expressed their condolences as well as personal reservations and opinions would have been selected.

Does DU's permission give them carte-blanche to take any thread at any time?

Wonder what's in the contract...

{OE}- just read Miss Marple's post (19), and the selection seems to make more sense.

[me b zola]

52. From a historical point of view, it was a wonderful choice.

Historians do not look at history in a vaccuum, context is extrememly important in understanding a single event in time. Imagine you are living a hundred years from now and want to understand the historical context, world events, surrounding JPII's death.

The premise of the thread is that most powerful man in the world at that time is seen by some in his own country as using the Pope's death for political purposes. Within the body of the thread is laying the contextual fabric of current events. The entire "cullture of life" agenda as used by the party in power and the hypocracy of that agenda as seen by some, and apparently also by the Pope himself. There were examples of Baby Sun Hudson, the death penalty, and the Iraq war.


There were other cultural items mentioned that would reveal a lot to a historian. The mistrust of MSM, and other political figures.

I am quite pleased that history will remember!
:patriot:

[FreedomAngel82]

78. That's what makes me wonder

Of course now days I'm pretty paranoid so :shrug: could be just me. I'm suspecious of everything with the neocons running the show. :\

[wtmusic]

15. That thread actually seems pretty representative

of DU. Pretty cool. :thumbsup:

[The Doctor.]

16. Sounds like a good thing.

Does this mean we can give FR the razzberry?

:smoke:

[annabanana]

82. fumph...

don't waste the spittle.......

[Coexist]

18. How cool

[Spazito]

20. Wow, that is fascinating!

It will be very interesting where this thread will be fit into a larger 'picture' and what the larger picture will portray historically, assuming it will not be a stand-alone which wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Congrats to admins for having such a great website and to all the posters that contribute to it!

[FreedomAngel82]

79. Just me thinking

but someday maybe they can use it in the Bush administration trials of war crimes etc. ;) Could you imagine John Kerry or Harry Reid questioning Rumsfeld or Bush and use something said on that thread in the case? ;) Long stretch I know.

[LoZoccolo]

21. They should archive the 8+ "bitch" threads!

Or the Haitian man-boobs conspiracy theory!

[YankeyMCC]

24. Very nice

Wish I'd posted in that thread! :)

[pilgrimsoul]

25. Is no one the least bit alarmed about this?

What I want to know is, just who is the LOC's "agent" that will be collecting "content" from DU at regular intervals. Is this a way of saying that the government will begin to officially surveil what we say here?

I'm all for academic posterity, but given who's currently inhabiting the WH, I have to wonder if there's not an ulterior motive here. It gives me the feeling that evidence is being collected to use against people who post here, and that scares the shit out of me. Anyone else, or am I just being paranoid?

[Maine-ah]

30. well, I am a little worried about it my self.

I guess I only have the TF hat on half way. Part of me says "cool!" the other says watch your back people!

[MissMarple]

32. Oh, they survey all kinds of cultural sources, not just the internet.

:-)
This is from the site DRGonzoLives posted above.

"The Library is the oldest Federal cultural institution in the United States, and the largest and most inclusive library in human history. In pursuit of its mission to make its resources available and useful to the Congress and the American people, and to sustain and preserve a universal collection of knowledge and creativity, the Library has amassed an unparalleled collection of 124 million items, a knowledgeable staff and cost-effective networks for gathering the world's knowledge for the nation's good.

As we enter the new century, the Library must begin to acquire and make permanently accessible "born digital" works (i.e. digital materials which do not have an analog equivalent) that are playing an increasingly important role in the intellectual, commercial and creative life of the United States."

Here's the link: http://www.loc.gov/acq/devpol/webarchive.html

[doodadem]

33. No, you're not the only paranoid

I'll join you in that particular pie. It sounds to me like we're going to be under surveillance. Of course, with the ramifications of the Patriot Act, I don't know that they needed to ask our permission anyway.

[LostinVA]

37. Come on people, this is legit

And nothing to worry about. Jesus. I don't work for the LOC, but work at a university library that works VERY closely with the LOC. The MINERVA project is legit and very, very cool.

For the record, librarians -- including government librarians -- are overwhelmingly very progressive. We are extremely anti-Patriot Act, etc. I suspect many LOC employees read DU.

No everything is a conspiracy, not everything should cause paranoia.

[huskerlaw]

43. Exactly! If you want to piss off a librarian

just say the words "patriot" and "act" in the same sentence. And yes, they are typically quite progressive. Just ask Michael Moore. ;)

[LostinVA]

65. Just talk to ME

Paper shredders are our best friend since 9/11, too...

[huskerlaw]

93. Librarian?

Are you a librarian? I'm getting my masters degree in library science in less than a month. I've met some of the most liberal people in my classes. :) Seems like there is a great group of people in the profession.

[LostinVA]

108. A great group, and welcome to the club!

There are the occasional conservatives, but the truly nutso ones tend to go work for the more conservative religious colleges, and leave everything else to us.

Unfortunately, the pay could be better, but the profession is great!

Congrats on your MLIS.

[Goathead]

112. Again, strange name for the project.

See post #109

[LostinVA]

117. Not at all -- she was the goddess of Wisdom/Knowledge

It makes sense to call it that, and to have her "wise owl" appear. There is a beautiful mural of Minerva/Athena in the LOC, especially because she's the goddess of wisdom. If you ever get a chance if you're in DC, go into the LOC and on their tour. That's real gold leaf on the ceilings, not paint!

It's an acronym for: "Mapping the INternet Electronic Resources Virtual Archives."

[Goathead]

133. Strange meaning curious

I am well familiar with the LOC. I have a LOC library card. I am also familiar with the symbolism behind a lot of the art work. My particular favorite is the mural depicting "corruption of government" also, did you read the link to "Minerva" on Wiki. It has some info on the Illuminati and I believe that the owl is symbolic to them as well. Minervas main temple in Rome was on Capitoline hill. "Capitoline" is where we get our word "capitol" from. Also check out this map:



The roads around the capitol form an "owl".

[slutticus]

138. There is also an Owl hidden on the dollar bill

:tinfoilhat:

[Goathead]

144. Where Slutticus?

Where is this owl you speak of?

[slutticus]

146. It's in the upper right hand corner near the "1"

It's hard to see with the naked eye...but many people claim it's an owl. Get a dollar bill and see for yourself. I'm not quite sure that I would see an owl unless I was looking for one.

[Book Lover]

46. Honey, that's already done

I would call it safe money to say that the Republican Party and/or its operatives observe and record this site, as well as others.

[WoodrowFan]

60. I doubt they'd ASK in that case

if we were being watched I doubt they'd ask first to save it.

[CAMANY]

77. What if it's to make it legal?

The cops can ASK to come in your house with out a warrant. Saves them the trouble.

[WoodrowFan]

85. it's already legal

these are public comments posted on a board anybody can read, it's not like a home. there's no assumption of privacy.

[patricia92243]

81. I agree with you. Wish Skinner had not agreed to it.

[Sapphire Blue]

84. Raising my hand & running for cover in full TF regalia

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:


Isn't there something in the PATRIOT act regarding ISPs, libraries, etc. providing info on customers/patrons without informing the customer/patron? Does it apply here?

[theboss]

135. Like they couldn't do this already?

The Library of Congress is typically not the gatherer of evidence of a crime and I doubt the government would be asking for permission.

If the FBI is monitoring your postings, it's probably be done right now without your knowledge.

[Jdude]

137. I agree, the alarm bells should be sounding very loudly

A simple link would suffice.

Seems to me to be some kind of slick method of getting government agents to investigate article authors, etc. - er, us.

On the other hand, it denotes a shaking of the tree. DU is being noticed.

I, myself, do not trust anything from the Bush administration. Even a seemingly harmless request from the library of congress.

I just joined these forums, so I haven't yet had much input, but I will work to rectify that. I won't let this scare me off either thanks.

[LostinVA]

140. It's the LOC, not the Bush Administration doing this

Go to the MINERVA Project website and see what it is. And yes, there is a major difference between the librarians at the LOC and the wackos in the White House. MINERVA was in the planning stages before Bush was elected.

And, the government doesn't need a slick way of investigating anyone -- they just do it anyway.

[Cooley Hurd]

27. I can't think of a finer way to archive / preserve a slice of history

...than to capture it through the eyes of an internet message board.

Excellent idea, LOC!:thumbsup:

And congratulations to Admin!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[HEyHEY]

28. And the thread on Alhedges frenching everyone gets ignored?!

What a country!

Seriously that's pretty cool, must be driving Freepers nuts.

[proud patriot]

29. Interesting thread

:think: it's pretty cool if you ask me

[Lone Pawn]

31. Well. That's certainly disturbing.

I understand why it was picked--trying to get cultural viewpoints on this event from all perspectives, right, center, and left. But yet I don't think that thread puts *us* in that good of a light. I don't like us being remembered as the guys who, at the death of the Pope, starting going nuts--over how people were paying attention to it.

[jimshoes]

34. Seems like an ordinary

run of the mill thread to attract the interest of the Library of Congress, a modicum of reverence for the Pope and a healthy DU size dose of irreverence for the chimp, but other than that it seems fairly ordinary. But perhaps that's what they're looking for.

[donheld]

35. Quite the thing

DU is now in the big leagues.

[Robbien]

36. They were probably back tracking links to that article and found DU

wonder who they will pick to provide the required "balance" comments.

[sakabatou]

39. Wow...

No wonder the right wing hates us! They can't get this kind of recognition! :D

[Deb]

40. Congrats!

I'm glad you agreed to allow it.

[zbdent]

41. One really, really good thing about getting this in the Lib. of Congress

the term "Fucking Asshat" gets entered into history - AS A REFERENCE TO GEORGE W. BUSH!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DemExpat]

42. This is wild! Congrats, Admins for this great honor.

They picked it because of the emphasis throughout the thread on the differences between the Pope's Culture of Life and George's....how we at DU see through the hypocrisy - all of this in a very ordinary, unremarkable thread by regular DUers...IMHO...:D

:toast:

I'm wondering, though, will the avatars, Sig-lines and graphics be preserved on this archived thread, or will they disappear when users change them? There is some cool and very DU-ish stuff on that thread for future reference. LOL.

DemEx

[cynatnite]

44. Completely Cool!

I had a feeling my money was going to a great place. :headbang:

To all DUers and the great Admins :yourock:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

45. Skinner, bet you never expected this when you started DU.

DU and the opinions expressed by "we the people" being preserved for future generations. This is awesome!

Congratulations! :toast:

[flyarm]

47. how wonderful!!!

what a compliment Skinner to you and all at du!!
Just think how many little eyes are reading what we write!!

congrats DU and thank you for the opportunities to express ourselves with freedom of our intelligence Skinner!!

fly

[Junkdrawer]

49. Does this mean we're on the Endangered Species list?

:shrug:

Perhaps they know something we don't. :tinfoilhat:

[mmonk]

51. Cool

Does this make us famous?

[Pithy Cherub]

53. Did they use the electronic version of a dartboard to choose?

It seems as if they are seeking real time internet reaction to preserve a sense of being in the moment. Odd how out of the threads that one catches their attention. :shrug:

Perchance, it also so reflects on chimpy's behavior too. So maybe cross referencing...who knows!

[Mr_Spock]

54. Geez - not exactly my most interesting posts - ah, well

What are ya gonna do? I was using "Pope" to kick threads that day :rofl:

[Glenda]

129. Btw, did you see TDS, when they used the term "Pope-pourri?" n/t

[Reverend_Smitty]

55. hey I got a couple of posts in that thread...

yay I'm historic :P

[Endangered Specie]

56. I for one think its great...

I hope they come back for some more threads in the future, we have quite a few here that are worthy of preservation :).

(do I hear freeper heads exploding?)

[Arkana]

57. Interesting choice of threads...

[Misunderestimator]

58. Hmm... why are the hairs on the back of my neck standing up?

[MADem]

63. I'm with you

That certainly was not the best of all the Pope threads, IMHO, and not to denigrate anyone who posted on it. But there were other threads that ran the gamut, that had more opinion, detail, texture, richness, than that one on this board.

Anyone who posted on that thread, if you start hearing funny clicks on your phone, let us know!

[LostinVA]

66. Y'all really need to take off the tinfoil hats

This is a great thing. MINERVA is so cool.

[Mr_Spock]

72. I'm telling you - the paranoia isn't necessary.

It's not like we don't knwo people read the stuff we post - even the nutty stuff on our bad days! I'm not gonna worry about it - I'm in it for the long haul. We should be proud of all material - people who snap judge based on a couple of posts are idiots anyway.

[MADem]

76. That was uncalled for

Perhaps you should remove your rose colored glasses.

Now, more than ever, people need to question their government. Insults to those that do bother to question aren't helpful.

Quite frankly, I thought that Pope thread was one of the weaker ones on DU. There were many that were better, more contentious, and showed more range of opinion. That leads me to wonder, why THAT thread? Take it from there, wherever you will.

[LostinVA]

86. I do not wear rose-colored glasses, nor was I insulting anyone

Some people on this thread don't seem to be aware of what MINERVA is, nor how it functions. This is not some variant of the Patriot Act here, and it is a really cool, great program create and facilitated by LIBRARIANS. The LOC is NOT run by Congress, nor does it do Congress' bidding.

You ask me not to insult people, but yet you did the very thing to me! I work in a profession where we actually have a code of ethics where we do NOT allow people's privacy to be infringed upon. Look at librarians' efforts against filters, or the Santa Cruz public library, or the ALA. Being accused of this pisses me off. I question the government EVERY day in my job, let alone personally. I help protect information so citizens have access to it.

THAT'S what MINERVA is. Not surveillance, but showcasing nd protecting all voices. THAT is why it was created.

[MADem]

87. You said that people who don't agree with you are tinfoil hatters

Now, if that is a bouquet of roses, it's a new one on me.

And I did not insult you, I merely suggested that your perspective was coloring your viewpoint.

I will repeat my assertion--that thread was one of the lamer re: the Pope. If they are going for lame commentary for posterity, well, they've got it. There were many that were better.

And now, they're able to get hold of any and all threads, at least near as I could tell from the release request.

What's to stop the government from taking this free speech and flipping it on its head? The MINERVA Army of One?

It may have been created for good, but Congress was created to represent we the people, too. Shit has a way of happening.

[LostinVA]

89. No I did NOT say that

I said MINERVA was legit, and was a great project, and everyone needs to understand what it is before they go all tinfoil hat on it. Does the government spy on us? Of course it does. I guarantee almost every DUer, including me, has been looked at in some way. MINERVA is not the same thing.

Also, The LOC is absolutely NOT Congress.

I feel you are insulting every librarian bu accusing the MINERVA facilitators of doing something underhanded. This is to preserve opinions and viewpoints, this is a cultural depository. Most librarians care more and do more about privacy of information that most people in this country. It's what we do. It is in our code of ethics. It's what our leadership stresses and advocates. The people running are librarians, not Congress, not Homeland Security. I KNOW one of the facilitators personally.

How is my perspective coloring my viewpoint? Because I know what MINERVA is and how it works? because i know what I'm talking about? You must not have read my post -- every day I do what I can to legally circumvent the Patriot Act for citizens. "MINERVA army of one" What the hell does that Mean, anyway??? And you did insult me. I do not look at things through rose-colored glasses. I am not naive, trust me.

Seriously,I'm going to bed. This has gotten ridiculous. Not everything is something bad you know, some things are good, and this is good. I don't need to apologize for my great, progressive profession, or for the fact that I refuse to see an evil government conspiracy where there is none. Your problem may be with Skinner, but it sure shouldn't be with MINERVA or the LOC. They are a BASTION of freedom. They are good guys who do what they can. They are the "moles" inside.

Good evening.

[MADem]

90. Dear. read your SUBJECT LINE

"Y'all need to take off your tinfoil hats" sounds to me like you are telling "we-all" that don't accept everything without question that we are wearing tinfoil hats that need to be removed.

Your assertion that questioning a system set up by the government is somehow an insult to...EVERY LIBRARIAN...is ludicrous. And to suggest that a library established by Congress has nothing to do with the entity that provides its funding is a curious assertion, indeed. And then, to infer that I have a problem with Skinner, who runs the best site on the web, well, that is a bridge too far.

You are correct in one respect, though--this HAS gotten ridiculous.

Good evening to you.

[nolabels]

97. What's a pope?

A GOVERNMENT THAT LIES

The most expensive purchase most Americans will ever make is their own government. Government costs the average American more than their home, more than their health care, more than their childrens' college education. Yet people who would spend a great deal of time kicking the tires before buying a new car spend disastrously little time checking out the government that sucks so much money out of them over their lifetimes.

Right now, looking under the hood of that expensive item called "government", we see a unified group of men and women who lied to send your children off to a war of conquest. Across this land there are thousands of families waking up to the knowledge that their sons and daughters were crippled and killed in Iraq for reasons other than what they were told.

First off, let's dispense with this crap about "Intelligence failures". An Intelligence Failure is when something is happening that you don't know about. You miss the evidence. Or you misinterpret the evidence you have.

But with regards to the claims about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, there was no evidence to miss or misinterpret. There could not be, since in hindsight there were no weapons to leave traces of evidence with. The story about weapons of mass destruction was just made up, and fraudulently manufactured "proof" created to support that lie. The mere existence of Tony Blair's dossier, plagiarized from a student thesis, is proof not only that the claims of Iraq WMDs were lies, but were known and conscious lies. Had their been any real proof, it would have been shared immediately between the various war-mongers. There would have been no need for Tony Blair to concoct his discredited Dossier. But, what the public were offered were mislabeled and blurry photos, made up dossiers, and balloon inflators misidentified as mobile biological weapons laboratories (which the British government knew about since they had sold the balloon inflators to Iraq in the first place).

So, there was no "intelligence failure". There was no intelligence with which to fail. The whole crock about Iraqi WMDs was a made-up fiction.
(snip)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/governmentlies.html

[Misunderestimator]

80. You know what? I'm not much of a tinfoil hatter...

but it IS the Library of Congress. And really... why that thread?

[no_arbusto]

100. When will people realize?

The DC area went 70% for Kerry (90% in DC city limits). The majority of people in the DC area work for the government or government contractors. Why does there always have to be an ulterior motive? "Inside the Beltway" is Republicanspeak for "liberal" for cripes sake.

[cookiebird]

59. Wow

I'm an academic, and the LOC is like a 2nd home to me. I love the place--so much is there and available. Relax, folks, I think this is all for the good.

[mzmolly]

61. I like the thread frankly. It's a nice flavor of DU.

:toast: to DU! This is really amazing Skinner!

[bloom]

62. That is fun to know

A big event - a different POV from what the MSM was providing - I think it makes sense.

GO rodeodance!!!!


From the last post:

"That is rich considering craphead's cursory review of the appeals of people on death row in Texas when he was governor."

-greatauntoftriplet


:)

[Just Me]

64. Very cool choice of threads!!!!

I LLLLLLLLUUUUVVVVVV it!!! :bounce:

[Beaverhausen]

67. Of all the Pope threads...interesting

I myself was fond of the thread in which we picked our own Pope names, should we get the call.

[Maru Kitteh]

69. Wow, you have started a damn "national cultural artifact"

way to effin' go!

[VOX]

70. "And, here in our "How Extinct Liberals Once Thought" exhibit, we have.."

"...some genuine materials "posted" -- that is, actually **written** by liberals -- to something once called the 'Internet.'" :scared:

Leave it to me to see the darker side of most things. You gotta admit, this is a request you don't get every day. Weird.

[Mr_Spock]

71. Hey Mr. Negative Pants!

Lightnen up dude!

[VOX]

73. Thanks, Spock, for being your logical self!!!

Cheers -- :toast:

[CAMANY]

75. WTF?

Would this include names, email, or other records of members of DU?

[sonicx]

88. Seems like an average thread...

Government trolls need to do better. ;)

[BuyingThyme]

91. From my experience, the LOC attempts to preserve

items which would not otherwise be preserved. (Among other archiving activities.)

For instance, they archive urban, inner-city folk music which is not marketable and, without the archiving, would be lost to the world.

Contrary to some of the comments above, I don't see this as a particular honor or a step towards the big time, nor am I suspicious of some kind of government surveillance operation.

They're just trying to capture something that nobody would have thought to capture. It's a pretty cool thing.

[Mr_Spock]

92. It makes me sad that so many can't just take it in stride and move on...

As if this particular thread preservation in this location is like a big deal or somehow any more intrusive than the fact that we're an OPEN forum quoted on RW sites all the time :eyes:

[Mojorabbit]

94. I think the favorite

photo of the pope thread was better but that's me.It made me smile and was a great way of remembering him.
Congrats to DU.

[merh]

95. Now calling our prez the weed will be a part of history.

Interesting.

[Catherine Vincent]

98. High five, Merh!

:thumbsup:

[Horse with no Name]

99. Nah

They'll just spin it to mean that the liberals were so obsessed with drugs that we gave our favorite drug nic to our favorite pres....:sarcasm: :puke:

[Skinner]

101. The paranoia in this thread is misplaced.

This is a public message board. If you are uncomfortable with the idea of anyone reading your posts, you should not be posting here.

Everything posted here is public, and freely available to any stranger who wants to read. If the government wanted to snoop here they would just do it. The Department of Homeland Security would not send a form asking permission.

Nobody has asked for your personal information. Now or ever. If they did, I wouldn't give it to them.

Who knows why they chose that thread? Honestly, it doesn't really matter. The job of the Library of Congress is not to make liberals or DU look good or pro-Pope or anti-Pope or long-winded or cerebral or whatever. The job of the Library of Congress is to save things that are of historical significance. Apparently, they thought that thread was historically significant. Hell, if they had asked to archive a thread entitled "I just took a dump, ask me anything" I would have given them permission. Why? Because this is an important academic and historical project, and I think it is important to do what we can to help out with that type of thing. Considering the anti-intellectualism of the people in power, we should be glad that anyone in the federal government is doing academic work, and we should support it.

My guess is that they did not read *every* Pope thread on DU. Remember that they are collecting information from thousands of websites, so they're not going to spend a week reading everything on DU. They probably did a search and a spot-check and picked one that seemed interesting.

This is a cool thing. DU is now part of the permanent historical record of the United States. The paranoia about it is simply not justified.

[frictionlessO]

103. agreed, but please let us know if they take you up on the other

recomended threads thingy that you offered. I hope they do, just for posterity... some of those non Catholic/Christian condolence threads were tear jerkers.

But yeah, congratulations!

[DistressedAmerican]

104. Hear Hear! All Of The Paranoia AND Negativity Are Misplaced

I'm just glad to see that it will go down for the record that some of us thought this guy was a lying hypocrite.

Besides, one of my graphics is posted to that tread and I was rather glad to see it end up there. Congrats to all DUers, the administrators and especially the thread's author.

To Reiterate:

[Misunderestimator]

107. Good point!

And congrats on your graphic getting in there!!

[DemExpat]

114. Yeah, I thought your graphic was great to be in that thread, DA!

:thumbsup:

DemEx

[Catherine Vincent]

122. You do realize once you change your graphic to something

else, that is what the library of congress will have. If you do change it later, make sure it will always be anti Bush graphic.:-)

[DemExpat]

126. I was wondering about that, and the avatars and siglines....

but also now I wonder if, say a hundred years from now when DU does not exist,what will the LoC have on this thread? A print out version of it?

I am not very computer savvy....:dunce:

DemEx

[Misunderestimator]

106. Apologies for any paranoia on my part... you're right and it is an honor.

(and I blame the Patriot Act for my paranoia)

Congratulations! Here's to DU being part of history. :toast:

[Mr_Spock]

136. Here here!! I tried to point this out above and was ignored.

Suddenly people here are realizing that they are posting on an open public forum? Golly gee fellows, what a shocker! I like my nutty posts as much as my well thought-out ones - who cares what a particular person finds important - I'm just another cog in the wheel here - and I know that!!

[frictionlessO]

102. Put me into the cool but weird category.

Hopefully there was a real person behind that email who will respond and take the suggestion for a better thread or two... though Rodeodances thread was good meat thats sort of like reading an addendum as if it were the whole story.

Any way cool beans to be noticed.

[zanne]

105. Such trusting souls on DU!

The following sentence requires some examination: "The Library of Congress or its agent will engage in the collection of content from your Web site at regular intervals."
Call me an old, hardened cynic, but that makes me suspicious as hell.

[DistressedAmerican]

110. What's The Problem? It Is Just A Large Permanent Archive.

I for one do not fear them archiving anything I post. I hope they archive every freaking word (typos and all).

Being an archaeologist and historian, 100 years from know I'd like to know that someone can still access our unedited thoughts on this guy.

Besides, I assure you there ARE branches of the government reading this and archiving it that really are the enemy. Hi Agent Mike:hi:!

If you are worried about the Library Of Congress, that should really give you pause!

[zanne]

113. I sincerely hope you're right...

Otherwise, we've just given government officials our permission to snoop (and record).

[LostinVA]

115. We don't have to give them permission, they already do

That is not what MINERVA is. It's a really interesting project, specifically created to record more alternative opinions and information that is often not readily available in the mainstream. The LOC does a lot of good work like this. If you get a chance, check out the MINERVA website.

http://www.loc.gov/minerva/

[LostinVA]

111. I explained this up thread

There are facilitators at certain libraries that can suggest threads to the MINERVA project. That's it. Nothing secret about it.

[mattclearing]

120. Seriously. Agent Mike won't ask our permission to watch. n/t

[AngryAmish]

116. Why wouldn't they archive a cowbell thread?

Surely, in hundreds of years our progeny will be interested in which songs needed more cowbell, in our opinion.

[LostinVA]

118. I actually think one of the Chick threads

From the Lounge would be perfect...

[flvegan]

130. And the cats in Wisconsin. THAT should be archived.

[Misunderestimator]

119. Ok, I went back and read the thread in question.

Now I see how they had interest in it. It is quite favorable to the Pope while justly criticizing our President. I'd prefer to see something more balanced (re the Pope), but given the specific subject, it was a very good thread.

Gotta do something about this knee of mine jerking.

Congratulations for this Skinner! :toast:

[Henny Penny]

121. well done to all....

I think this is great news.

The thread represents a snapshot of opinion as it was at the time. When people are asked to recall events from the past, they quite often bias their recollections in terms of what they have learned since, usually unconsciously so. I think taking threads from sites such as DU (warts and all) is an excellent way of preserving the zeitgeist and will be a great resource for historians of the future.

:applause:

[luvLLB]

123. kewel....

[rodeodance]

127. well-guess I will take the 3 seconds of fame for the cult of life

[merh]

132. Congratulations

"cult of life" was good. :thumbsup:

[realFedUp]

125. an odd thread to choose IMO

whatever...

[kentuck]

131. That's too cool but now that means.....

we are part of the mainstream??

[Horse with no Name]

134. It will probably be an archive in the next century

of what free speech used to be.:(

[davidinalameda]

139. pretty cool

someone who's undercover at Freeperville should post this over there

[Sapphire Blue]

142. MINERVA should archive these...

They love their children, too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3458498


Gaddam, disgusting, pissant, syncophantic motherfuckers!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1720058


Still running for cover in full TF regalia, no matter what you say :)

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[redqueen]

143. Neat!

Strange choice, but OK.

[BiggJawn]

145. Is that the Library of Congress, or Total Information Awareness?

I realize Admiral Poindexter don't need no steenkeen permission to archive us, but ??????