I call on all DUers to vote for whomever the Democrats nominate

[leftofthedial]

Every candidate has flaws. Some that you find more objectionable than others. Personally, I find redeeming qualities in every one of the 10. Each of them is so far superior to DimSon personally and represents an agenda so far superior in every way to that of the Bush/PNAC cabal that I will enthusiastically take my own advice--even if Joe Lieberman, my least favorite among the 10, is nominated.

Through the convention, support whichever candidate you wish. Debate points with supporters of other candidates. That's how the party grows. Done well, that's how minds open. But once the party selects their slate for the general election, the ONLY chance to remove the Bush/PNAC cabal is to support and vote for the Democratic ticket.




edited for punctuation

[IranianDemocrat]

1. Agree.

I'd still rather have Lieberman than Bush.

[WillyBrandt]

2. Harken Steak Fry Online! Clinton, Most of the Dems!

Sorry, off topic. But go here:

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=Steak

Watch two Clinton speeches, lots of Dem speeches. I know DUers like nothing more than bashing those candidates who aren't their favorite, but this is a strong crowd, lots of good people.

[leftofthedial]

7. I am more impressed every time I see them all together

I wish we could assemble the entire group into a "cabinet" or adminstration team. I think all have strengths the nation could benefit from.

Even, grkk, Lieberman.

[Robb]

64. I thought of this last night too

Can you imagine if those ten got together and said, collectively, "whoever gets the nomination gets to run for president...and we've agreed to everyone else being on the cabinet."

:)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

69. where was lieberman??? he had a no show at the steak fry

[alexwcovington]

3. Naturally!

Heh, we may complain about the various candidates now, but we'll come together when the time comes. Gaah, even Lieberman.

[MercutioATC]

4. I'm with you, leftofthedial.

I'm backing Dean, but I'll support whomever wins the nomination.

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. The important thing is to put a Democrat face on the PNAC strategy

That will placate that segment of the voting classes who are displeased with Bush.

[kalash477]

6. of course

if youre going to vote for a dem. it should really be Clark. Not only is he a good candidate in his own right--he can beat bush! which is more than the other candidates can say.

[candy331]

11. Bush

out is job # 1.I love listening to all the candidates. Lieberman kind of grates on my nerves but would vote for him if it comes to it. I wonder will he switch to repugs/Independent after this election?

[AlabamaDem]

8. why the hell WOULDN'T a DUer support whoever is nominated?

I thought everyone was in agreement here that although we have our favorites, any one of the candidates will do in getting Bush out of office. We all need to vote for whoever wins the primary or we are screwed. I'd like to meet the dumbass who will let Bush back into office just because his favorite candidate didn't get picked!

This should all go without saying.

[lcordero]

10. I'm not in agreement

If a Bushler* enabler gets the nomination then it's safe to say that I might conveniently forget to appear at the polls and may change my party affiliation the next day.

[haymaker]

12. I second that notion.

I can also forsee a confluence of events that might cause me to forget to go to the polls.

[leftofthedial]

16. I can not fathom that opinion

I hope you change your mind, but if you don't, and the Bush/PNAC cabal retains power, you'll be getting what you deserve. That's the curse of democracy.

c'est la vie.

[leftofthedial]

14. it should, but I've seen numerous posts that say otherwise

"If So-and-so is nominated, I'll either vote Green, or I won't vote at all."

OR

"If So-and-so is NOT nominated, I'll either vote Green or I won't vote at all."

AND EVEN

"I won't vote for any of the ten."

I've also seen way too many rancorous posts tearing down one or more candidates a poster doesn't like, instead of promoting the positive ideas of the candidate the poster does like. Also, way too many posts calling for candidates to drop out. During the primaries, we need as much diversity as we can get. The primaries should be a process of bringing the range of progressive ideas together for the good of the party.

[lcordero]

19. I didn't like the 2000 election being fixed

The process of the Democratic primaries is being fixed as we speak. I will not make the fix legit.

[leftofthedial]

23. fixed how?

??

[lcordero]

28. The media has helped in the fix

It seems that the people that least threaten the economic interests of whoever controls the media are getting the most positive coverage. It seems that issues and where the candidates stand on the issues aren't being discussed at all. If C-Span didn't exist then I wouldn't be able to see what the candidates were like as far as mannerisms go.
I see this as a form of election fixing.

[leftofthedial]

31. it's a matter of degree

but forever in politics, media ( or the lack thereof) and existing power blocs have exerted influence on public opinion. I don't think the current situation with the Democratic candidates is worse than usual. The Bush love fest in the media is obviously evidence of fundamental corruption of our free and open society.

I agree that it is a bad thing and should be resisted and opposed, but I see it as bias, not as a "fix."

Now the black box voting, that is a scary and true fix.

[bluestateguy]

9. I've made this appeal before

but I can't seem to get 100% unity on this issue. I think secretly the Greens really like being permanently locked out of power.

[leftofthedial]

15. that is one of only three possible explanations for their behavior

and makes sense.

I don't want to go into the other two in this thread, because it would be perceived as flame bait.

[Rowdyboy]

13. I agree 100% on the need for unity after the convention...

Now, dammit, somebody tell me how to fry a steak! I've searched the web, I've googled, I've done everything possible anfd I can't find a description.

How does a "steak fry" work?

[leftofthedial]

18. take one steak

take one frying pan

Go to a steak fry

Magic happens.

[Rowdyboy]

25. Now I've got it...

Your help has been INVALUABLE!

Oh, well, I love to cook and it just sounds nasty!

[fabius]

17. I will vote for the Democratic nominee. No Problem! n/t

[ronzo]

20. Amen.

That's why I'm here. Let's get the man and boot this chimp. Until then, keep it civil.

We eat our own? Let's not.

[Booberdawg]

21. count me in

[bobthedrummer]

22. An open convention might be good for *

but I'm sure our next President will not be * and will vote Dem in November 2004, but I'm doing all I can for DK until then.

[leftofthedial]

24. Go Dennis Go

I hope Dennis wins the nomination.

Failing that, I hope he awakens the other candidates to the true spirit of the Democratic Party a la FDR.

I also hopes he informs the debate consistently throughout the primaries with his amazing liberal ideals and ideas.

[FrankBooth]

26. You can count on me.

No question about it.

[MrPrax]

27. Lame

FAIR did an analyst of a Rush season back in the mid 90s and the resounding conclusion was that Rush (indeed most of media) seem to support GOP policies, anti-clinton tactics down the line--94%!!
Now any thinking person that might find themselves in a democracy and might find themselves voting for a party might find themselves at odds with this or that...and hold their nose and vote.

But the stakes are getting too high and like any bad hand, people have to learn to fold and learn that the game is fixed and the dealer is corrupt...

Unless there are policies and ideas and something other than more of the same...

Fuck it...let loose the dogs of war

[FrankBooth]

30. I respect your opinion.

But I believe the consequences of 4 more years of these insane criminals outweighs any benefit to humanity that might be accomplished by their victory.

[library_max]

42. You've got no dogs and you've got no war

Taking your ball and going home in a huff will not do thing one to change the problems you're describing. To make change, first you have to get into power. The party in power can move the electorate. Public opinion molds the media, as well as vice-versa. You can build success on success until you have the power to change that "bad hand," but you can't build anything on failure.

It takes courage to try and fail, or try and not perfectly succeed. It takes no courage at all to say that the game is rigged so I won't play.

[sujan]

29. no

[Romberry]

32. Agree. Anyone but Bush, 2004

I'd even vote for Holy Joe Lieberman. Good thing I don't think it will come down to that...

[Voltaire99]

33. The most foolish advice I've seen on DU

Leftofthedial will have to change his name if he votes for Lieberman. Rightofthedial, might I propose; I can think of less flattering variations, too.

The Democrats today are both the hope and half of the problem in Washington. Anybody following the party's capitulations to Bush (on taxes; on the Patriot Act; on Iraq) should be thoroughly disgusted with the mainstream Democratic leadership and its DLC-engineered collaboration. We need to change that, or risk proving Nader correct again.

If a right wing Democrat is given the nomination--again, consider the pro-corporate Lieberman, who thinks the Iraq war was, is, and will be peachy, and whose record lines him up as one of the chief reform-blockers who enabled Enron to fleece us blind--then there's no point in throwing away your vote on him. Electing a right wing Democrat would be even worse than losing the election, because not only would it change nothing substantially, but it would mean that the party had abandoned all principle and run out of steam. Partisan hacks should ponder that thought.

Let us hope, nay, work to see that such a sour fate doesn't come to pass.

[leftofthedial]

34. nice try

I am left of everyone I know.

But let's assume the Democrats nominate Lieberman (I don't think that's likely), but let's assume.

Then the "dial" is Bush on the right and Lieberman on the left. That sucks. I agree. But the left of the dial is Lieberman.

There is no third choice.

Does my vote for Lieberman mean I suddenly endorse every one of his positions and abandon my own? No. It means the best possible outcome for a liberal is to vote for The Democrat (as is ALWAYS the case).

Meanwhile, you and I, instead of carping at one another work diligently to two aims:

1. Liberalize the Dmeocratic Party.

2. Move America toward a system that transcends the two-party system that doesn't serve America's or the world's interests anymore and certainly does not represent either your views or mine.

I would also suggest that tactically, we should work together to reinstate the Fairness doctrine and to remove all private money from the political process.

Meanwhile though, the world can survive Lieberman's evils. It's not certain that it can survive Bush's.

[Isome]

37. Voting

...isn't the beginning and end of the people's responsibility. It's that fixed idea of voter responsibility that creates the most unwarranted dread of this candidate or the other. Just as many in the Democratic party have learned to be proactive and respond quickly to proposed legislation that is counter to our best interests during this misadministration, we have to remain so even if the candidate of our choice is nominated or elected.

Many of the tools for making our voices heard have always been here and we've developed some new ones, so now that we're organized we have to continue to use them.

[library_max]

43. If all you're worried about is Lieberman, check the polls.

[leftofthedial]

53. I agree that the Democratic Party has become part of the problem

And I second your hope that we elect a true liberal.

I completely disagree that electing a conservative Democrat (none of the slate are remotely "right wing") would be worse than losing.

[waldenx]

35. not sold

I haven't heard a convincing arguement yet.

[Isome]

36. Well,

You're just a walking rain cloud aren't ya'! Enthusiasm, hope and constructive input just radiates from every letter of every word in your posts.

[Adjoran]

38. Choice

is usually one of two in politics. It is very rare that three candidates will actually have a chance of winning a given election. As Democrats, we fight like junkyard dogs for the nomination, but in the end, we have one nominee.

Then it comes down to choice. You choose between that nominee, and George Dubya Bush. That's it. No, "but if only MY guy had won the nomination." No ifs or ands or buts. It's between the winner of a fair and open nomination contest, vs Bush.

Who you gonna choose?

Didn't win your whole agenda? Sorry, that's life. Keep working to convince people of the value of your ideas. But don't take your jacks and run home just because somebody else won this time around.

You're only a "loser" if the wrong guy wins the big one. Don't be caught twiddling your thumbs and crying about What Might Have Been. Get in the game!

[Zuni]

39. 100% agreement

I like Wesley Clark, personally. But everyone of the democratic candidates is a whole lot better than Bush for 4 more years. Even Lieberman, who gets bashed often, is far better on some issues like the environment (a VERY important issue) than Bush.

Every candidate has their faults and their baggage. I personally think Dean or Clark has the best chance of winning in 2004. But I will vote for anyone who is the top contender against Bush.

[gully]

40. You know I'm in...Note the avatar.

:toast:

I look forward to supporting our nominee.

[IndianaGreen]

41. Even a bush-clone like Lieberman?

I don't think so...

[library_max]

46. See post #43

[leftofthedial]

52. He's not a "Bush clone"

He's way too conservative for my tastes.

He has supported portions of Bush's agenda.

But to call him "clone" is to express willful ignorance of many very important differences between Lieberman and Bush.

It's using shallow rhetoric and ad hominem to avoid serious discussion.

[TioDiego]

44. Man, am I glad to read these posts!

[Terwilliger]

45. Thanks

maybe I will

[library_max]

47. YES!

Absolutely yes. 100% yes. Go ahead and be for who you're for in the primaries, but we will need unity in the general election. And we need to commit to it now so that we don't paint ourselves into rhetorical corners where we can't support the eventual nominee without swallowing more pride than we're willing to swallow.

[sangh0]

48. Unless it's Sharpton

I can excuse a "vote for war". I can excuse giving Bush* "the benefit of the doubt". I can excuse opposing a woman's right to choose. I can excuse support for NAFTA, WTO and GATT. After all, we need to be pragmatic in order to defeat Bush.

But I can't excuse Tawana Brawley. Thousands died because of Tawana Brawley

[OrdinaryTa]

50. The Untold Story of Tawana Brawley

Thousands died because of Tawana Brawley

It's one of the tragedies of our time. This would have come out long ago, but the press treats Al Sharpton with kid gloves. They'd never print any of the real dirt on him.

[OrdinaryTa]

49. Warmongering Is More Than A Flaw

Every candidate has flaws

Some issues are so unambiguous that getting them wrong is more than a flaw, it's a deal-killer. Hundreds of thousands of us were out in the streets protesting Bush's war in Iraq. The war resolution wasn't an occasion for soul-searching, as some of the Democrats who voted for it have claimed. It was obviously wrong, and political expediency is the only reason they voted for it.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, but good citizenship is more important to me than party loyalty. If the Democrat at the top of the ticket is someone who voted for the war, I'll vote third party for that office. The values of the Democratic Party are reflected in the selection of its presidential nominee. I won't vote for a warmonger, I can't do it! It's too far from my personal values.

[leftofthedial]

56. Define "Warmonger"

If you don't see a difference between a yes vote on the Iraq war powers issue (admittedly a hard and possibly alienating vote) versus the Bush/PNAC plan for world domination, you need an eye chart.

Even if the nominee supported the invasion of Iraq given the reasons in play at the time, which we now now were false, you still have a clear choice.

I'm always puzzled by single issue voters.

[retread]

51. Even if the differences between the candidates are only an

"inch wide", given the extreme right wing agenda of the Bushits, a lot can happen on that inch!

[Mari333]

54. Anyone But Bush

Thats my motto now. Of course, we have to get the votes counted, and with DIEBOLD running the touchscreen voting show, all hell may break loose.

[leftofthedial]

57. there's the rub

votes don't count anymore.

[chadm]

55. No way

I have principles.

[leftofthedial]

59. congratulations for your principles

be proud of yourself

we'll discuss your principles and mine in line for the showers at the camps.

[Cat Atomic]

58. I call on the Democratic Party to nominate an actual progressive.

Honestly, I could vote for most of the presidential contenders, but I don't care for the "vote Democrat, period" notion. It's a good way to ensure an endless procession of Leibermans. If they refuse to nominate actual progressives, then they *should* lose.

[leftofthedial]

61. voting is not your only role in the Party

This slate has more true progressives than any in recent history.

Even those who aren't nominated can have an effect on the campaign, the winner's positions, the party platform and the convention.

It is up to us to make the party we want to represent us. Until substantive change can be made to the two-party system (and I see zero evidence of that change nationally), the party we need to make represent us is the Democratic Party.

That is a separate issue from the clear, practical choice you will have next year between the Democratic nominee and the Bush/PNAC cabal.

[sangh0]

65. An example of "learned helplessness"

Guess what? The Democratic Party doesn't take requests. However, it will obey demands, if the ones making the demands have the votes to back it up.

So if you want an actual progressive, stop waiting for the Democratic Party to do you a favor. Instead, get off your ass and fight to persuade people to demand an actual progressive.

[Cat Atomic]

70. The "learned helplessness" comes from people who've rolled

over and decided to vote for anybody with a "D" next to their name.

I do everything I can get the party to embrace real progressives by volunteering time for real progressive candidates. I assume you've gotten off your ass as well.

[RetroLounge]

60. vote for whomever the Democrats nominate

Yes, of course. I will support whomever is nominated, just to get this stink of a Bush* out of the White House.

and those of you who say you'll stay home instead of voting. Then shut the Fuck Up when Bush wins, because you will not even fall into the DU radar anymore. YOU will be the Bush* enabler you so haughtily talk about.

You know the other site you can go to after Bush Wins...

[leftofthedial]

63. I've been trying not to put it so bluntly

But it is ironic that certain DUers will become Bush enablers because their almighty "principles" won't let them vote for a "Bush enabler,"

Nail. Head, RetroLounge.

[jonnyblitz]

62. I know I will!!!! who else would I vote for? Bush?!?! LMFAO

:puke:

[Mairead]

66. I'll vote for a Democrat: Dennis Kucinich

He gets my vote both in the primary and the general. Now, the question is: are enough other 'ABB' people sufficiently committed to traditional Democratic principles to vote for him in the primaries?

I hope so, because the one thing I won't do next year is vote for half-a-Democrat. Only the Democrat offering us the Real (Democratic) Deal gets my vote.

The New Deal was a high-water mark that has made the lives of millions more bearable for 70 years.

But for the past 30 years, 'centrists' and right-wingers have been chiseling away at it. Their Raw Deal has just about done us in. They've made a lot of wealthy elites really happy, though.

Now it's past time to end this downward slide. It's time to vote for a Real Deal instead of more Raw Deal. So who else will commit to do that?

[goobergunch]

67. I will endorse whoever wins the Democratic nomination.

I can't vote for them because I'm underage. :-(

[ElsewheresDaughter]

68. ABL

[SammyWinstonJack]

71. Not a problem

Was my plan all along.