Any Body Else Feel Like The Shit Is About To Hit The Fan?

[doublethink]

Watching Kerry's speech a bit ago today on CSPAN, I had those thoughts while listening to him, kinda like before the last election being 'The Most Important Election of our Lifetimes' 'feeling' if you know what I mean. Haven't really felt that way since then. I Did a little bit ago today. Also the passion at the Bolton hearing the other day by the Democrats was un-presidented. Are the chickens coming home to roost on all this? I heard last night that if the Repubs pull the 'Nuclear Option' it could shut down the government somehow .... but it was too late in the evening to look into that possibility? Is this more than just a Constitutional Crisis brewing ... not to downgrade that, but the euphemisms being used now-a-days are really shading the truth it seems about this administrations intent, of total control, domination, one party rule like Germany in the 30's and 40's, not to be questioned on anything. Is the Gauntlet about to be thrown down by the Democrats? Any thoughts? :patriot:

[fertilizeonarbusto]

1. Yup

I do. And we're winning this one.

[Atlas Mugged]

12. I wish I shared your enthusiasm...

I held my breath during the last election, just knowing that the tide would turn. Well, you can understand my skepticism.

[FreedomAngel82]

66. I hope you're right

I really don't know. :shrug: I was nervous earlier today so I'd be looking for signs.

[understandinglife]

2. It is by many of us. MNA May 2 2005.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (plan on persistence as you reflect on why)

[MADem]

3. One of two things can come of this

Either the tide will turn, or the forces of good will be crushed, decisively. The Democrats are getting ready to attack the Death Star. Let's hope they succeed!

[tex-wyo-dem]

17. Love the analogy, MADem...

"The Democrats are getting ready to attack the Death Star."

Somehow I can just see Cheney dressed up like Darth Vader...

[walldude]

68. Hehe... Barbara Boxer is Princes Leia... n/t

[kineneb]

73. Must loose cinnamon bun hair-do...n/t

[Blue Belle]

105. Somehow I think he does too...

:+

[smirkymonkey]

4. Something's got to give sooner or later....

I have been having the feeling that our country is like a big pressure cooker, about to blow it's lid.

[SteppingRazor]

11. Well, maybe

Hi again SmirkyMonkey -- is it just me, or are we disagreeing on every thread? :)

Anyways, I agree that those who are politically active are ready to blow on either side, but you've got to remember that that accounts for less than half the country -- much less in fact. Many of those who vote are sort of like Christians who only go to church on Christmas and Easter. The percentage of our population who cares about the state of the nation 24/7 is pretty slim. And remember, a huge swath of the country doesn't even vote.

So while it seems like a pressure cooker here, remember that's because you're one of the only people in the cooker. There's plenty of people outside the pressure cooker, who are more concerned with this week's CSI than anything else.

[LdyGuique]

24. Extremely good point, SR

We are obsessed and as such we look for the most miniscule movement from the RW to indicate that they may have stopped drinking the Kool Aid. Most of the country does quite well ignoring politics.

[smirkymonkey]

43. Much of the country is going to regret ignoring politics when

they are homeless and unemployed and can't declare bankruptcy to erase their medical debt, which they have because they are uninsured. Or when their kid gets shipped off to yet another country in the Middle East and dies a pointless death at the age of 20; or when they can't go anywhere because they can't afford to put gas in their cars, etc....the list goes on.

The "blissfully unaware right" in this country won't stop drinking the Kool Aid until it's too late. The willful ignorance of the average American is largely responsible for what is happening because if they were paying attention, things would not have gotten so far out of control.

[Mandate My Ass]

99. My thoughts exactly

The wingers are starting to see what we've been seeing since 12/12/2000 and are starting to feel the first stirrings of uneasiness. But so what? It was in the admin's best interests to keep their half of the electorate happy for a while while they consolidated power and now that time has run out.

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are a shambles, and an expensive one at that. That, however, will not stop the upcoming attack on Iran. There will be a draft. That will anger some of the base.

We know if need be Social Security will be eliminated by executive decree, same thing with the courts.

When the economy crashes and the theocracy emerges many more former kool-aid drinkers will gnash their teeth but what are they going to do?

They have the PATRIOT Act and if and when they need to they'll put teeth into it.

The only thing I feel coming is the awakening by many to what we've known all along. The gov't identifies itself as members of the Republican party but they're not, they're really members of the ruling elite and that's whose needs are being served and nobody else's.

We've seen what police do to peaceful protesters; I think we're going to soon see what they'll do to an angry mob and it ain't gonna be pretty.

[LibertyorDeath]

112. Great Post !

[liberalpress]

93. Here's an example..

...I made a joke to some work mates yesterday (remember that I work at a right-wing talker). The joke was that Joseph Ratzinger actually didn't get enough votes to become Pope but Cardinal Diebold recounted them and then there were enough.

The joke fell flat and I was looked at with uncomprehending eyes. I expalined that Diebold owned the electronic voting machines and there had been some allegations of fraud.

"Oh yeah," said one of the talk show hosts. "I heard a little about that, but didn't pay much attention."

Yes, he was serious.

Kool-Aid drinkers like the taste.

[doublethink]

31. hmmmm .... just another thought.....

"The percentage of our population who cares about the state of the nation 24/7 is pretty slim. And remember, a huge swath of the country doesn't even vote."

"It is the person who is blind to what goes on around him that is most surprised when the same things happen to him" THOMPSON. Whole lotta ignorant people out there isn't there, dammit. Peace.

[Jensen]

39. Very good points ....

however the economy is going down the toilet, the job market gets worst everyday which will account to a lot of restless and hopeless people simmiring....I do not doubt that the lid is close to blowing!

[smirkymonkey]

42. I wasn't speaking only about political parties, but about a reckless

course of action pursued by our government that is going to end up in disaster for THE AVERAGE AMERICAN and will certainly have an influence on our current political system.

Animosity is no longer just between the right and left, but between rich and poor, Christian and Non-Christian, various racial groups, gay and straight, male and female, the educated and the ignorant. Murder and suicide rates are up, job security is a pipe dream and our aggressive foreign policy is making more enemies (read terror and war on American soil) with each passing day.

Eventually, even the most obtuse American will realized that they have been duped by the right. Unfortuanately, by then we will have already solidified our status as a fascist dictatorship and it will be too late to change anything through the democratic process.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chalky]

70. One friend who has me on her "glurge" distribution list

started paying attention when her military husband was put on alert that he'd be deployed soon to Iraq.
Another one who spent most of our breaks talking about her favorite on American Idol started paying attention when W started his attack on Social Security.
And a third friend who's idea of political talk is to call Bush's dog "cute" started paying attention when gas topped $2.00.

Then there are the hard-core repug acquaintances who'd email me these screeds on the wonders of the Chimperor just to irritate me. In the past three or so months those emails have abruptly died away.

I think there are more people starting to pay attention than you think. All it took to wake them up is for them to start feeling the pain.

Oh, and for the record--the ones I'm still hearing from aren't buying the "It's all those Terri Schiavo killin', Clinton lovin', Christ hatin' libruls fault" argument.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

72. Step'n Razor, I know you points were not addressed to me, but I must

throw you my 2 cents... You are not in the pressure cooker alone. My pressure is elevated at the CSI watchers and the trance this country appears to be engrossed in, but I think once things start, more people will be paying attention.

[xpat]

90. That's the way things were during the American Revolution.

Most people didn't care or were waiting to see which side won before they jumped. At no point prior to Yorktown were more than about 30% of the population behind the revolutionists.

All it takes to blow the top off the pressure cooker is a determined minority.

One, make that two, more examples:

1) France, 1789

2) Russian, 1917

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

14. Yup.

Me too, and I cannot shake the feeling. It scares the pure living fuck out of me, too.

[justsomegirl]

94. Don't be Afraid.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see it's path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

-from Frank Herbert's Dune

Afraid is right where they want you to be.

[FreedomAngel82]

67. I'm with you

But the big question is when? How much can they get away with before we all just pop?

[In Truth We Trust]

5. Let's hope so! The current status quo isn't democratic (small d).

the fraWd, corruption, greed, etc.etc are too much for the collective to bear. Bring it on!!!

[SteppingRazor]

6. Even if a gauntlet is thrown, so what?

The Republicans HAVE one party rule. They're not about to give it up, and if a lot of the electronic voting stuff is right, they won't even have to.

I see these "things are about to change, the GOP will finally get their's" posts now and again, and I'm always amazed. What makes you think they're about to get hit? Sure, DeLay's got problems, but so what? Even if he goes, they'll just replace him with someone just as bad, policy-wise if not ethically as well. Sure Bolton may go down, but again.... so? They'll just put another anti-UN advocate in his place.

Without a free and fair election I see NO chance of real change in Washington. And even then, it's 50/50. And without free and fair elections (i.e. if the electronic voting conspiracies are all true), then come to me when you're ready for violent revolt.

[In Truth We Trust]

10. I heard that loud and clear brother-couldn't agree more either

[ktowntennesseedem]

16. I hear you about the need for fair elections,

which we clearly do not have. And even if we do acheive fair elections, it will be a long time before we can trust them.

However, if this elephant poop hits the proverbial fan like I think its about to, it just might raise enough of a stink to make more people demand something be done about the election mess we're in.

We've got a long way to go, but I'll take any bit of good news I can get.

[doublethink]

18. I too believe the election was stolen ...

and I too am not a conformist. But it seems like these coming events are very close to being the very last test of our system of Government. Followed by what? Many paths to choose from here ... seems Kerry was very Presidential today, speaking for the people. Is it possible that this country could actually revolt, split in two and he or someone like him become the 'other leader'? What happens if the Government shuts down? Crazy shit. Peace.

[leveymg]

58. The sociologists call it Dual Sovereignty. It's thought to be a precursor

to revolution.

Read Chalmers Johnson's stuff written in the 1960s when he was at Rand Corporation (or some such gov't funded thinh tank) working on counter-insurgency.

[doublethink]

63. Thanks I'll read up on that ......

but the word 'insurgency' gives me the wheebee geebies ... especially in the good ol US of A. Peace. :)

[Occulus]

77. What happens when a military such as ours currently is,

deployed in a hot zone, urban combat, all that good stuff....

....comes back to a civil uprising here at home?

I used to hope our military would support the People and the Constitution first. Now, I'm not certain of that at all.

[doublethink]

82. Well do you remember ......

a couple weeks ago when the local police down in Florida were about to take on Jeb Bush's State troopers after he or someone under him sent them to supposedly rescue Terry Schivo one night? The local police down there said not without the Judge .... and made some off the cuff comments like 'think we have enough firepower to hold off the National Guard?' These police officers were protecting our Constitutional rights that night, they held their ground, Jeb backed down ....... But if Bush starts turning judges in this country rather quickly among other 'laws' using his 'nuclear option' I guess 'his law' would be what the armed forces, etc... would have to follow. It's all a game to consolidate as much power as this administration can get right now, screw the Constitution, or re-write it in these guys minds. Will the American public buy it? Or how far can they get, your guess is as good as mine tonight. Keep the faith, really. A lot of good people out there still. A lot on this site. Just keep speaking the truth. Peace.

[leveymg]

86. Something else by Chalmers Johnson -

A long thread, but worth reading beginning to end. These guys have it nailed.

http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2003/msg04850.html

[xpat]

92. Louis XVI and Nicholas II thought they had the forces of order on

their side, too.

The Czar's army walked away from the front to join the revolution.

[leveymg]

88. More on Dual Sovereignty

The term was actually coined by Crane Brinton, a contemporary of Johnson. The folowing passage describes what happens after revoltionaries have taken power, and the extremists depose the moderates. Think about the process of radicalization of the Republican Party as you read the following:

www.isu.edu/~andesean/SEK26.htm


IV. Rule of the "Moderates"

One group of the revolutionists takes control of the government administration and tries to behave as realists and sensible politicians should behave in a non-revolutionary situation. Their mistake is that they overlook the fact that as long the revolutionary genie is still out of the bottle, the mass of revolutionary followers, who are fed up with "business-as-usual," will continue to make more demands and will not accept a return to ordinary politics. The problem is that the revolution itself unleashes a blind hated in its followers that makes them willing to sacrifice themselves, their enemies and their children to achieve their revolutionary ideal---they are in no mood to deal with compromise and 'politicking as usual' which is all that the moderates are able or willing to offer.

Classic quote:

"The moderates by definition are not great haters,
are not endowed with the effective blindness which
keeps men like Robespierre and Leninundistracted
in their rise to power." (p. 146)

The initial revolutionary government is characterized by what Brinton calls "dual sovereignty"--joint rule by moderates, who are under the illusion that older norms of legitimacy and authority are still applicable to politics in the new order, and the extremists who view the revolution as having barely begun. In America the moderates were the Loyalists who disapproved of the Declaration of Independence and who afterwards moved to Canada or returned to England.



V. Ascension of the Extremists

While the moderates try to "muddle-through" using the clunky and ineffective administrative apparatus inherited from the old regime, the extremists proceed to create their own parallel government staffed only by their own loyal followers and encumbered only by their own sense of revolutionary justice and legality. The extremists turn out to be few in number, well-organized, completely indifferent to the feelings and opinions of others, including the sentiments of the majority, and quite willing to achieve their goals at the cost of extreme human suffering, whether to themselves or to others.

These tend not to be idealists or theorists but rather practical people with administrative talent and energy and much political experience. It is because they are relatively unreflective, not given to theorizing or introspective self-criticism unlike their opponents, the moderates, that they are able to violate existing norms and to kill their fellow citizens without qualms, remorse or guilt. Mao Zedong once said, "Power grows out of the barrel of a gun," but even non-Maoist and non-Marxist revolutionary extremists believe this.

When the opportunity is right the extremists overthrow the moderates in a coup d'état. The moment these extremists seize power they are transformed into arch-conservatives and will execute former allies at the bat of an eyelid if these dare to criticize them.

<snip>

[xpat]

91. Insurgency, you will remember,

is one of our proudest traditions. We celebrate it every July 4th.

My ancestors were insurgents. It's in the blood. <insurgent grin>

[vince3]

108. The revolution will not be televised...

The revolution will be live.

-Gil Scott-Herron

[readmoreoften]

111. Things will change when we take to the streets.

Or when the economy collapses and we wake up from this jingoistic, fundamentalist psychosis.

[ktowntennesseedem]

7. So glad our pResident is a uniter and not a divider.

Repeat after me: "Mandate my ass!!!"

:kick:

[Speck Tater]

8. But think of the advantages...

you can just say "THE party". No need to specify which party. And "THE religion" is easier than remembering all those names of denominations and sects.

See, there IS always a silver lining. ;)

[CottonBear]

9. See this thread: Barbara Boxer needs our help

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3521609

[leveymg]

13. Consider: they're better armed, control the gov't, and most media

If it came down to a civil war in the conventional shooting sense, we're toast in about five minutes.

We need to make sure it doesn't, and that we remain the side that is trying to RESTORE A LAWFUL ORDER IN AMERICA.

There are many, many decent people in the Republican Party, the military, intelligence, police, etc. We can not alienate or antagonize them. If we remain reasonable, they will conduct themselves honorably.

It is a matter of self-preservation that we all are alert to provocateurs and be the first to suppress violence and stupidity in our midst. This self-discipline is hard but necessary.


:kick:

[SteppingRazor]

21. I agree

As long as we do, in fact, still live in a representative democracy. Which I believe we do, though I do wish the media would look into election fraud a little more closely to set all our minds at ease.

But if we have no representative voice (i.e. if elections are fraudulent on a widespread scale) then we live in a tyranny. And no one will come to liberate us.

[leveymg]

25. Ghandi succeeded because his message was directed to the English.

If India had been under the control of Germany or Japan at the time, his tactics would not have worked.

I'd like to think that the adversary we face are more like the starched shirt traditionalists in the British Colonial Office than the lunatic New Order in the Nazi Waffen SS or the Imperial Japanese Army.

If the Bushites do apply true police state tactics, then we must respond accordingly. But, I don't think that's going to happen, do you?

:kick:

[SteppingRazor]

27. FTAA protests, Miami, Nov. 2003.

Yes. They are perfectly willing to use such tactics. And yes, they already have. But only in small instances, unlike the constant repression of Nazi Germany, Imperialist Japan, Stalinist Russia, etc.
But I can tell you from being there, in November of 2003, the cops closed off the streets of Miami, and if you were in the wrong place, you were beaten to within an inch of your life. No questions asked, and no reason other than that you were a protestor, or at least looked like one.
I only dodged a whipping by holding out my press pass and yelling, "PRESS! PRESS!" while the group I had arrived with were getting smeared all around me.
So, yes, they'll use police-state tactics anytime they please. They already have.

[leveymg]

33. Yes, I've been at the receiving end of batons, mace and water canon.

That's a spanking. True police states open up on protestors with automatic weapons and drag political opponents out of their beds and disappear them to secret torture centers.

Kinda like what we've been doing in Iraq. It happened in Vietnam too. What we see here, even in the most extreme instances, is mere suggestion of real state violence.

Those in power should know the consequences of crossing those lines. Of course, some politicos are quite ruthless, and sometimes they believe that examples have to be made. The result was Kent and Jackson State, the murder of Black Panthers, and Operation Chaos/COINTELPRO/ and Watergate. Those examples, however, are learning devices that work both ways.

Lets hope they don't drive all the grey hairs with an institutional memory into early retirement. So long as professionals are still in the game, I think we'll be okay.

:kick:

[bvar22]

64. The USA holds over 2million citizens....

...in our prison system.
The great majority are for non-violent crimes.

[smirkymonkey]

45. Unfortunately, our adversary is all three within one single

government - the British traditionalist, the Nazi sadist and the lunatic Japanese Kamakaze pilot (figuratively speaking.) I am hoping there will be a great schism in the Republican party and eventually the lunatic fringe will lose support.

[leveymg]

57. I've been thinking about what happens when discipline within authoritarian

movements starts to break down. When the lunatic fringe, who are normally relegated to quite junior positions, come to the fore, then we start to see atrocities. That's how Colin Powell earned his stars, as a master cover up artist. He kept My Lai out of the mainstream press for more than a year, until Sy Hersh broke ranks.

Even the perceived need to hide fuck-ups goes out the window as the enormity of the crimes of the leadership starts to be self-realized. That's when wars are lost by democracies. There an alternative outcome, though. Discipline starts to dissipate as chaos breaks lose the shackles of command and control. Every man and woman a superman with a foot on the throat of vanquished enemies of the State. Then, total war. That was Imperial Japan.

All those young Republican frat brats. If you put guns in their hands, what hell might break loose? We won't see that, I don't think, in this lifetime, unless there's a draft. Thank heaven for the staff of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

But, that's what the worthies of late Wiemar thought too.

What's with that stepping on barbed wire guy who's so bothered by you?

[smirkymonkey]

62. True, within the republican party we now have a few different

factions, each with the goal of claiming the Republican party as a vehicle for thier own ideology. However, the race for power is going to get ugly soon enough, as the traditional conservatives struggle to take the power back from the neo-cons and the Christian lunatic fringe. And vice versa.

They are a group of rabid power mongers who are about to devour each other now that there is no substantial threat from the current Democratic party to distract them.

As far as the freeper stalker who won't leave me alone, I have no idea but I am pretty sick of him.

[leveymg]

84. When the Republican Party turns on itself, watch for a charismatic leader

leader type to emerge from the Far Right. Will portray himself as a unifier and a super-patriot. May be someone from outside of traditional politics. May have a corporate, entertainment or military background.

After Gulf War One, I thought Schwatrzkopf would go into politics and play that role. More recently, Arnie looks like the strong man (pun intended). Funny, they too have family ties to the Nazis and Fascists.

:bounce:

[doublethink]

109. 2 Questions .......

what do you think about the subject of 'Peak Oil'? Just curious, a good thread here and site link if you have a moment to check it out. More reasons for shit hitting the fan I suppose....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3528966

oh and the second question if I may, the 'charismatic leader' statement you made above, what's the basis for that speculation? Again just curious? And thanks for the all the info on Duel Sovereign governments. :)

[leveymg]

89. This is on point to just what you were talking about

The folowing passage describes what happens after revoltionaries have taken power, and the extremists depose the moderates. Think about the process of radicalization of the Republican Party as you read the following:

www.isu.edu/~andesean/SEK26.htm


IV. Rule of the "Moderates"

One group of the revolutionists takes control of the government administration and tries to behave as realists and sensible politicians should behave in a non-revolutionary situation. Their mistake is that they overlook the fact that as long the revolutionary genie is still out of the bottle, the mass of revolutionary followers, who are fed up with "business-as-usual," will continue to make more demands and will not accept a return to ordinary politics. The problem is that the revolution itself unleashes a blind hated in its followers that makes them willing to sacrifice themselves, their enemies and their children to achieve their revolutionary ideal---they are in no mood to deal with compromise and 'politicking as usual' which is all that the moderates are able or willing to offer.

Classic quote:

"The moderates by definition are not great haters,
are not endowed with the effective blindness which
keeps men like Robespierre and Leninundistracted
in their rise to power." (p. 146)

The initial revolutionary government is characterized by what Brinton calls "dual sovereignty"--joint rule by moderates, who are under the illusion that older norms of legitimacy and authority are still applicable to politics in the new order, and the extremists who view the revolution as having barely begun. In America the moderates were the Loyalists who disapproved of the Declaration of Independence and who afterwards moved to Canada or returned to England.



V. Ascension of the Extremists

While the moderates try to "muddle-through" using the clunky and ineffective administrative apparatus inherited from the old regime, the extremists proceed to create their own parallel government staffed only by their own loyal followers and encumbered only by their own sense of revolutionary justice and legality. The extremists turn out to be few in number, well-organized, completely indifferent to the feelings and opinions of others, including the sentiments of the majority, and quite willing to achieve their goals at the cost of extreme human suffering, whether to themselves or to others.

These tend not to be idealists or theorists but rather practical people with administrative talent and energy and much political experience. It is because they are relatively unreflective, not given to theorizing or introspective self-criticism unlike their opponents, the moderates, that they are able to violate existing norms and to kill their fellow citizens without qualms, remorse or guilt. Mao Zedong once said, "Power grows out of the barrel of a gun," but even non-Maoist and non-Marxist revolutionary extremists believe this.

When the opportunity is right the extremists overthrow the moderates in a coup d'état. The moment these extremists seize power they are transformed into arch-conservatives and will execute former allies at the bat of an eyelid if these dare to criticize them.

<snip>

[smirkymonkey]

97. That's very interesting, but frightening as well.

I think that a key phrase in that above passages was about "blind hatred" and unfortunately that is what is driving the extreme right in this country. It is hatred pure and simple. Hatred of anything that is not like them and that stands in the way of their total dominance.

I think that is the problem with those of us on the left, we don't hate as much or enough and therefore are losing power to the rabid haters on the right who would sacrifice all to achieve their ends.

[leveymg]

103. Hatred eventually eats people up. It destroys revolutions before

they ever achieve their original goals, and is the cause of political failure of all radical movements, left and right. And then the bureaucrats, another group we can talk about, settle in . . .

[Occulus]

79. yes, and to butress your point

Remember the recent little thumbs-down the police in I think it was LA or SF gave Arnie when the protesters blocked him from entering his fundraiser (hope I have all my facts straight on that one.. not sure atm)?

They'll feel the pain too. The rank-and-file 'enforcer' types might only go for it for all of five minutes.

[leveymg]

87. The local police are the last line of defense for the Constitution.

Treat them with respect.

I had an interesting conversation with a Washington, DC police lieutenant while I was waiting for Ronald Reagan and George Bush's armoured limos to pass by at their first Inauguration in January 1980.

He was relaxed and wearing his normal uniform. Blue shirt, a tie, and jacket. No helmet,no body armour, no stun guns. Just standing alone on the sidewalk in front of the J. Edgar Hoover FBI Building among the crowd of demonstrators.

I asked him what would be the response of the DC Police if the Secret Service ordered his men to forcibly arrest or harm unarmed, peaceful demonstrators. He looked at me for a moment. I was a college Sophmore from Boston who had helped organize a bunch of us to come down to the nation's capital to give the new Administration a piece of our mind. There was a feeling then that somehow the Republicans had won the election unfairly by manipulating the Iranian hostage affair and the "gas crisis" that year. I had Kent State in the back of my mind.

I'll never forget his response. He said, quietly, "If that happened, there would be a firefight on Pennsylvania Avenue." I'm glad he was there, and have never cursed the local cops at a demonstration since, even when things got ugly.


:bounce:

[Done]

15. If they (neocons) get in too much trouble...

...what are the odds of another 9/11 happening?

[MisterP]

19. fires are breaking out everywhere and we're shipping water and steam

is filling the air and...

[Ilsa]

20. CNN says RW bloggers are encouraging the "nucular" option,

but I've seen an ad by a Republican fireman (I can't remember who the sponsor is) on CNN that states he believes govt works best when two sides of an issue work together to resolve differences.

[Theres-a]

22. Just don't google images shit+fan

I thought I'd be clever and post an image of shit hitting a fan.Nevermind.

[leveymg]

26. I'm glad you resisted the urge to share that. n/t

[RC]

40. Word picture.

Expression - A derivative of the original: "The excrement made physical contact with a hydro-electric powered oscillating air current distribution device". Used primarily to describe a set of circumstances where events became inflamed to a point that control was lost.

[Occulus]

81. Lovely.

Really.

[Lexingtonian]

23. Well, it's more that anxiety is just high

The GOP has all the official majorities and such, but it is finding its support limited, ambiguous, and shrinking. If you do the 'business' sort of analysis, look at all the pollings and positionings, they've burned out with the People on a lot of issues and support for the rest of what they're doing is everywhere in decline. There are no more untapped issues left to champion. The country is slipping away from them. The court verdicts are going against them.

They know this better than anyone else. They know there is some limit in time on them now; whether that's '08 or '06 or '10 is not very clear, but I'm sure someone in the RNC has the trend lines and demographics figured out, all the percentages. Democrats are not total fools and realize the same thing.

What Republicans have to do is up the energy level and do as much as possible as soon as possible, try to win goodwill in a hurry and do stuff before the electorate turns on them. Different Republicans have different senses of how high the urgency is, of course, but a good number are evidently getting frantic. They feel they have to cut corners- and that's starting to show all over the place, including their beating up on each other and on moderates.

Democrats know what they have to do in the face of this vulnerability- beating up a weakening movement/party is classic politics, and the GOP did it to them for twenty years. Slow down the Republican activity, demoralize and derail the GOP initiatives where they are weak and shoddy and thoughtless, punish them in the media for every transgression, jam up the political pipelines, accuse them of hypocrisy, expose their bad preparation and corruption, make 'em go wacky in front of the cameras. Taunting and confusing the Pubbies into selfinflicted wounds and voluntary runs over the cliffs and circular firing squads are the terms of the game.

So don't get confused by the amount of emotion and energy shown, and all the threats. One side is seeing things starting to cave in on them, and it's not ours.

[leveymg]

28. Elegant and undoubtedly true. But I'd rather be on top watching our lead

crumble, than the other way around.

Let's hope they haven't done anything so stupid that they believe the rulebook has to be thrown out. If they have, then I'm afraid you could be wrong, and they'll destroy the pendulum to keep it from swinging.

People facing jail time can do some desperate things. Charges related to Abu Ghraib, the WMD fraud, and the potential for criminal prosecution for 9/11 negligence worry me almost as much as it does them.

[Lexingtonian]

36. this is a phase

Voters ultimately force the rulebook to be kept in force, that's the consolation.

Every party that gets vanquished fights viciously and leaves a pile of wreckage, moaning wounded, unburied bodies, and deserters in the bushes on the last few battlefields. When the end is inevitable they spend a lot of time making up their minds whether to become guerillas and brigands, trust the opponent and surrender, go into exile, or go on suicidal last missions. Most discover their convictions aren't as deep as they imagined and surrender.

[doublethink]

37. Obie Juan Kanobie Didn't.

:) Peace.

[leveymg]

41. If history was on your side in this argument. I'd feel more consolation

And, I hope you're narrative doesn't apply at least as well to the Democratic Party.

First, we have to assume that the voting process is still intact. I'm not sure that it hasn't been gerrymandered, push-polled and suppressed into an inaccurate gauge of voter self-interest, even if there isn't out and out electronic fraud.

Second, we have to assume that there isn't some god awful crisis looming -- a really bad, bad recession or a bigger, badder terrorist attack. An old fashioned war would be enough to throw the rule book out, too, at least for the duration plus one.

Third, some people may be in so deep that they believe they can't surrender. I'm referring to those who in more normal times in a democratic society would be under multiple indictment, right now. But, instead, the chief miscreants have been appointed to the most powerful internal security posts in the government. How do we escape the worst effects of their fears and paranoia?

[Stirk]

29. Oh I get that feeling, yes. But in more of a 9-11 sort of way.

Bush's numbers are in the toilet, and he can't move his domestic agenda on several fronts. His own party is letting go of his coat tails, and he's not even officially a lame duck yet.

Someone needs a major popularity boost.

[housewolf]

30. I think we're about to get a break

for the weekend.

It's been an action-packed week but within just a few hours, the House will recess for the weekend and the Senate will recess for the weekend. The energy bill has passed the House. The Iraq supplement has passed the Senate. The Negroponte nomination has passed the Senate. The Bolton investigation will proceed behind the scenes for now. The new pope has been installed.

With any luck we'll have a few days of quiet to attend to our own lives and selves.

At least until Sunday when Frist incites the RR'ers to take up arms against the anti-Christian judiciary and left.

Can't wait. How 'bout you?

[robertarctor]

34. what fan?

There is no fan. No shit either. They'd have you think that they have some kind of power but they don't, anymore. The pendulum has swung.

[Must_B_Free]

78. That's what I'm saying

how could an organization who controls all branches of government and the media be so powerless as the republicans are now.

The shit hitting the fan is that peopole are waking up and they are going to want payback on the people that deceived them.

Did you see Dennis Miller on the daily show last night? Pretending not to have been a Republican? Regardless of the false fronts that are displayed, people know that Team Bush made our armed forces into stooges who died for nothing but lies so they could steal oil and 300 billion and counting from the treasury.

[doublethink]

35. Dammit again !!!

Your post was the most comforting, soothing, and I was about to take a deep breath of fresh air ..... and then you had to bring up the Frist thing !!! LOL .... yea bring on the weekend. Peace. :)

[Just Me]

32. Nope. Just hoping, hoping every single day. n/t

[Kickin_Donkey]

38. Nope, we've seen it on DU before ...

... shit about to hit the fan ...
... the worm is turning ...
... the pendulum has swung ...
... Bush is toast ...
... Republicans have overreached ...
... Democrats are fighting back ...

Somehow, the above never seem to reach fruition. With a few minor setbacks, the fascist party just keeps rolling along, victory after crooked victory.

I hate to sound pessimistic here, but experience over the last five-plus years has taught me not to think otherwise.

[doublethink]

59. I feel your pessimism and I understand where your coming from.

Questions, did you see Kerry's 4 minute speech today? And second did you see the Bolton confirmation hearings a couple of days ago? If not you should. A lot has been said and done since the elections of last year. But these two recent events, in the same week IMHO were not your ordinary tow the line democratic fighting back for show kind of events. They had substance, heart, an actual pleading quality to them. In a way subliminally it felt like Kerry, and the Democratic Senators were saying to America, WAKE THE FUCK UP ....... this could be our last chance dick wads. Senator Vucavich (the repulican) I think got the message at the Bolton hearings. The Democratic Senators were NOT going to leave that room being pressured into a vote. And they didn't. And of course the eat your own attack dog republicans went after him immediately yesterday and today with the usual smear champagne, just because he wanted a bit more time to investigate Boltons record. My feelings about these recent events weren't all warm and fuzzy, some were and some weren't as I may have led some to believe. And maybe the original post up there of mine should have stated that. Yea it was good to see some real fight in the Senators, respect restored, but their sincerity made me also feel like I stated, shits about to hit the fan. I really think this could be a crossroads. Unfortunately like you, I don't like where this crossroads could take us. I think a Bolton confirmation to the U.N will lead us straight into war with Iran, do not pass go (monopoly). I think the political 'Nuclear Option' when the repubs pull it will more solidify Bush's fascist state, and silence the Joseph Bidens, Barbra Boxers and John Kerrys of our country. It's like Kerry, woke up today, like it was the day after the election, that was good to see, but is it too late? We shall see my friend. Peace.

[Vektor]

65. I'd like to see that speech.

Is there a link to the video anywhere? I missed it, but heard it was goooood.

[doublethink]

71. Hey Vektor ......

Haven't gone looking for a link to the Kerry speech of earlier today, but if I run across it I'll let you know. It's a keeper. Haven't checked out the CSPAN website yet, it may be there. I'll keep my eyes open ...... Peace.

[Vektor]

74. Thanks, Doublethink!

And peace back at ya!

[Chicago1]

44. I agree...I think the election FR**D fiasco is ready to erupt

I think they're going to unleash UTTER HELL on dumb dumb and start the revolution. We CANNOT live with a sto**n election. The House Judiciary committee has become a clearing house for election fra*d. Stupid won't make it to the fall. I can feel it. He's just losing on every issue and his numbers are HORRIBLE.

Waiting for the IMPEACHMENT WHILE THE SCANDALS KEEP UNFOLDING
America's Work Stories
http://usaworkstories.blogspot.com
[e-mail]

[BlueIris]

55. That's a nice mental picture. Truly.

But I...am seeing...another picture...it's too ugly to describe...

[autorank]

83. Damn right it is Mr. Chicago1. The cork will pop soon!

And you know why, because everybody who now knows Bush is a real and present danger will need the ultimate excuse to justify him being "resigned." What would offer a better rationale than

********************ACCEPTING PROOF OF ELECTION FRAUD*********************

[WLKjr]

46. Was that the one where he pointed his finger at another congressman?

I couldn't believe what I was hearing that man say. Why is it that some people don't have bawls enough to do that ALL THE FRICKIN TIME? :banghead: :argh:

[doublethink]

51. It was his speech from earlier today ....

covered EVERYTHING going on politically, hopefully CSPAN will replay it sometime this evening. Couple of other posts on DU on it today .... ummmmm here's a link to one of them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1737108

Peace. :)

[Deja Q]

47. But we want to bestow the untamed fire of freedom around every corner!

Of the globe!

I don't know what to think. I will wait and see. Nothing I can do about it anyway, except survive if I can.

I think we're all beyond recriminations anyway.

[LiberallyInclined]

48. where did that phrase come from?

the shit hitting the fan-

was it at a g.g. allen show?

[Wizard777]

50. Uh

I'm guessing it came from a monkey house that didn't have AC.

[DemBones DemBones]

80. Nice logical deduction, Wizard, and

welcome to DU! :hi:

[Wizard777]

98. Thank You

I just can't imagine any human being outside of the Bush family actually flinging shit at a fan. With the Bush's it seems to be a hobby.

[bread_and_roses]

49. With Dems letting the likes of Death Squad Negroponte and Torture

Gonzalez sail through? I don't think so. The Dems have no idea how to be an opposition. They undermine themselves every time they vote for these war criminals because they betray their lack of core principles. The Rs are so successful because they have a consistent message, a consistent world view and they act and speak to it consistently.

Why should anyone believe the far more nuanced objections to Bolton have any weight, why should the ordinary citizen believe there is anything wrong with putting him in the post when the very same people have voted in people like Gonzalez? People who betray and violate every principle the UN stands for, however far it has to go to implement them?

People admire an underdog that fights, that's a core American myth/fable that resonates with the average person.

[realFedUp]

52. smelling blood in the water

finally....and it's not democrats who
are bleeding.

[BlueIris]

54. That's like the fan analogy--doesn't work 'cause: what sharks?

Traditionally, we'd be referring to the media systems hostile to the Republicans and the Dems/other groups able to tear apart wounded GOP members. Now, I love me some John Kerry, HRC, Robert Byrd, John Conyersand others, but there aren't enough of them and they don't have enough exposure right now to qualify as sharks.

[realFedUp]

102. sometimes the sharks attack other sharks

oh the shark bites with his teeth babe....

[BlueIris]

113. Okay, good point. n/t

[LdyGuique]

53. I can understand why the Fundies are keeping a "rapture index"

that closely watches a series of "pending gloom and doom" issues. Our fears aren't a whole lot different, and are even based on similar issues. We almost believe that if we stare hard enough we might be able to see the giant blackhole of a whirlpool that is swirling in the middle of all that we know. We think we feel its tug, its nearly magnetic pull of our psyches.

The fundies may believe that it was preordained long ago; whereas, I believe that greed and self-centeredness, especially corporate greed, has been the root cause of the impending disaster. And, truthfully, I don't think that enough people are interested to avert this disaster to be able to forestall it by even one day.

We've known since the 70s that peak oil was a real possibility, especially as the U.S. itself had reached peak oil and was forced into continually buying more and more crude from elsewhere. We've been dealing with human-caused environmental damage since the early 60s that has gone from DDT-oriented issues to toxic waste sites that are still seeping into the groundwater. We have yet to agree on a method of disposal of nuclear toxic waste and the quantity gets bigger by the year. We are still fighting to get clean air and clean water laws passed and ENFORCED after nearly 30 years of recognizing it to be a problem.

We've been monitoring global warming for nearly as long and even now that substantial evidence is before our eyes, nothing is being done about greenhouse gasses. The methane "burp" that is on our near horizon is going to change this into runaway horse. The Arctic is now 10 degrees warmer than it was a century ago. It has a longer and warmer summer period and the permafrost is melting deeper. There are huge quantities of decomposing vegetation that once thawed will release methane at an accelerating rate, which in turn will accelerate the warming, which will . . .you get the picture.

Global warming is affecting the Arctic, the Anarctic, Africa, all of the oceans -- for example:

Lake Chad, once one of the African continent's largest bodies of fresh water, has dramatically decreased in size due to climate change and human demand for water. Once a great lake close in surface area to North America's Lake Erie, Lake Chad is now a ghost of its former self. According to a study by University of Wisconsin- Madison researchers, working with NASA's Earth Observing System program, the lake is now 1/20th of the size it was 35 years ago.

Found at the intersection of four different countries in West Africa (Chad, Niger, Nigeria and Cameroon,) Lake Chad has been the source of water for massive irrigation projects. In addition, the region has suffered from an increasingly dry climate, experiencing a significant decline in rainfall since the early 1960's.

Source: Nasa Goddard Space Flight Center

The economy is another whirlpool that is edging closer and closer to the central one, soon to be sucked in. Between the debt, the deficit, and who holds most of our markers, it's not an easy feeling. We can no longer buy made in America if we were so inclined. Not only have our manufacturing jobs and now many white collar jobs been sent overseas, we are granting H1B and LV1 visas at an alarming rate -- corporations are hiring people from out of country to move here and take our jobs. Meanwhile, no one knows for sure how many illegal immigrants have come into the country since the last amnesty, but it is estimated that 3 million came in last year. These people have been eroding the low end jobs and are now doing construction -- solidly blue-collar level jobs.

This doesn't come close to detailing the myriad issues facing us. Meanwhile, we get rinkydink Energy bills, such as the one passed today. Oddly enough, if the Repugs employ the "nuclear option" to stop filibusters and the Dems retaliate by nitpicking every action in the Senate, effectively stopping all legislation, it would probably be beneficial as it would at least STOP some of the crap that is being passed with the Repug majority. But, it won't deal with the bigger picture.

That ole whirlpool will keep on swirling and gaining strength -- a Class 5 Whirlpool of Disaster.

[doublethink]

107. On Earth Day ......

just thought you might enjoy reading more on Bush's environmental goals from an article today ...

Bush said.... "it would sure be helpful" if Congress would pass the air pollution proposal he calls "Clear Skies" legislation. -snip-

The legislation is Bush's top environmental priority, and would give power plants, factories and refineries MORE TIME to reduce their air pollution. -snip-

The rest of the article can be found here .....
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=703&e=1&u=/ap/20050422/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush&sid=84439559

The guy is a walking OXYMORON among other things .... peace. :)

[tinonedown]

56. Snooze....SNORE

Cue the Buffalo Springfield song:
"There's something happening here - what it is ain't exactly clear'
All these feelings, Bush regime is about to go down, yada yada yada.
Nothing ever happens.
It's like everyone is waiting on a political rapture.

[doublethink]

61. Uh ....... see post #59 above

Peace :)

[Sapphire Blue]

60. Oh, I wish it would... I am soooo ready.

[lonestarnot]

69. Got an email to that affect tonight from Kerry.

[kineneb]

75. I look about me every day and wonder.

People are going on about their business as if there is nothing wrong, the world is hunky-dory, there is no war, the price of gasoline is not going to go up, etc. I feel as if I am standing on the edge of something. I just got this wierd feeling something somewhere is going to snap and the country, and perhaps the whole world will spin into chaos, like matter approaching the event horizon of a black hole.

I do so hope I am wrong, but tommorrow, across the lake in Lakeport, will be the memorial service for Marla Ruzicka.

[doublethink]

76. One day at a time my friend .......

one day at a time ..... keep that hope you speak of. Peace.

[Pushed To The Left]

85. If Frist attempts the nuclear option

it will be all-out war in Congress. Harry Reid is not going to let the right wing get away with this crap!

[BlueIris]

114. I think it's already all-out war.

And more power to Harry, on that score.

[ArkDem]

100. 'un-presidented' ?

[grace0418]

101. Something is going on for sure, I have an interesting clue...

I have a Cafe Press page with all kinds of anti-BushCo stuff (see my sig line) that I sell to raise money. In the months and weeks leading up to the election, as you can imagine, I was doing really good business. I get an email every time someone buys something from my shop and there were at least 3 or 4 emails a day (not bad considering I don't advertise or anything). After the election, I quickly changed a lot of the designs to reflect the state of affairs so I thought I might continue to sell a lot to the angry people who feel cheated and incredulous that the fucker stole the WH again. I sold a few things but sales really died down. By last month I was *maybe* getting two emails a week telling me something had sold.

Then about two weeks ago things started going crazy again. I'm back to getting 3, 4, even 5 emails a day. And people aren't just buying one item. I'm selling 2 t-shirts, 2 bumper stickers and a mug (or similar quantities) to almost everyone who buys something. It's crazy.

I know that may seem like an odd clue but I can't help but wonder if it doesn't mean something is about to happen. People are getting angry and getting energized. We're fucking sick of this madness. I know I am.

[doublethink]

115. Nice Site !

Love the merchandise! A few graduations coming up, my niece and nephew are way leaning progressives (yes their uncle had a lot to do with it):) Unlike their father..... who as of today still holds onto his right wing republican ways, but he will come around too. Anyway a couple of those bumper stickers would look great on my nieces 65 ford mustang !!! Your slogans are to the point, I can see them provoking thought in Americas 3 second attention span. And it's really good to hear business is picking up again at your site. The further Bush's poll ratings drop the more you will sell. And the more you sell will only help to further erode his poll numbers. Thanks for your insight, and keep the faith ....

[AnneD]

104. From your mouth...

to God's ear. I hope, just hope....that maybe Vionivich quietly say, 'Mr. Chairman, I can't vote for Mr Bolton at this time.......' will have the same impact as the Senator addressing Joeseph McCarthy 'Sir, Have you no shame......'
I still find it disturbing that 68% of my fellow citizens cannot name something that the Conress did...

[blueheeler]

106. Two days and counting.........

until Justice Sunday Sunday Sunday!!!!! :beer:

[lonestarnot]

110. What justice?