Clark supports vouchers? Voted for Reagan?

[Cornus]

Just heard this from the R rep on Crossfire. Could this be true? Haven't heard or read this anywhere else.

[otohara]

1. Now This is Distrubing

Raygun???? Yick

[VaLabor]

2. I hope it isn't true.

Please let this be another Repug lie.

[PurityOfEssence]

3. Just heard that myself: defend it, please

Reagan is an absolute litmus test; not being able to figure out that he was in direct opposition to virtually everything good and decent is, at best, shockingly poor perception and judgement. I remember both of those campaigns well, and there was no lack of clarity for what and who Reagan was.

Vouchers are perhaps MISGUIDED, but the only excuses for them are religious privilege or pure ignorance. Religious privilege, although understandable in a country that gives such ludicrous free-reign to guesswork, is still an attack on the tenets of coexistence and community. Ignorance is no defense when running for President, and certainly not from an obviously very smart guy.

Is this true? (Don't want to jump to conclusions, here, even though I am...) Did he vote BOTH times, or did he wise up? Let's be specific about "voting" too, since he's said that, in some instances, his absentee ballots got lost in the system and never got mailed off and counted; the definition of "voting" should be for whom he cast his ballot, whether the Army botched the submission or not.

Hmmmm...

[goobergunch]

4. If he supports vouchers, I will not support him

except of course in the general.

[oasis]

5. Sign on door: "Reagan Democrats" need not apply.

:eyes:

[Nederland]

9. Yeah

We wouldn't want to expand our base now would we. </sarcasm>

[ulysses]

12. we expand the base by making them president?

Nothing in particular against Clark to this point, but if he's a voucherite, that's a large mark against him in my book.

[library_max]

13. Making who President?

He asked, innocently. O8)

[ulysses]

17. I didn't put that very well.

Try this instead: do we have to support vouchers (if indeed Clark does) in order to expand the base?

[Bucky]

11. Reagan Democrats

We do not want the votes of Reagan Democrats. We reject any electoral benefit we may receive by winning the votes of Reagan Democrats. If you are a Reagan Democrat and want to vote for us, I will personally request that you vote for our opponents. If the votes of Reagan Democrats result in the return of government to sane and responsible people in either the Congress or White House, I think we should reject the victory and request that the Republicans stay in office until such time as we can win without the undesireable contributions of these people, who are not even "real" Americans, because I disagree with them sometimes.

Thanks and good night.

[library_max]

15. I never say this, but this one time it is literally true.

LOL! And thanks for the laughs! :7

[dfong63]

18. those "reagan democrat" votes aren't free

... and if we have to nominate another reagan to win them back, i say it's not worth it.

[dofus]

6. Don't know if it's true or not,

but I've been very disturbed by the rush to embrace Clark by people who know nothing about him other than he's clean shaven and looks good in a uniform.

There's a LOT that needs to happen before he can be the nominee. Which I doubt will happen.

[disgruntella]

14. what is your basis for saying this?

Who are the "people who know nothing about him other than he's clean shaven and looks good in a uniform" -- and how did you manage to read their minds?

Personally I want to know more about Clark, but I'm willing to wait. I don't anything wrong with encouraging him as a canidate in the meantime.

[dofus]

40. As you yourself just said

you want to know more about Clark. Not much is known about him. He hasn't made very many of his opinions or possible policies known. People all over this board are jumping to the conclusion that just because he's a retired general he's the only one who can beat Bush.

Well, recent polling makes it very clear that almost any Democrat can beat Bush. Assuming there's actually a free and fair election, which is another topic altogether.

But so many people here are going gaga over Clark who clearly know little about him, that I'm just getting very tired of it. Probably it's time for me to do more lurking and less posting.

[disgruntella]

53. well, Clark did just announce

I think GD is just going to have to deal with some Clark-mania for a while. They'll be doing it without me though -- I'm a tad burnt out. Exiting the 700 Club seems like a fine time to exit GD.

And so... <dramatically falls on sword> :P

[Renew Deal]

7. This is insane.

Where are these accusations coming from? How would someone know if he voted for Reagan, or even Larouche? How would they know this?

[w13rd0]

8. Gee, take your pick...

...

Republicans

Campaigns of other candidates in "whisper campaigns"

Non-establishment Democrats

...I seriously doubt the road to the nomination will be a magic red carpet ride for ANYONE...

[CMT]

10. well if these accusations have legs

the mainstream press will be on it. If not, it will fade away--just like Gen. MacArthur.

[dfong63]

19. because he was asked the question, and he answered it

see post #16 in this thread.

[MoonRiver]

23. Hey, people change. A better question to ask him is

"would you vote for Reagan NOW" My parents were Reagan worshipers and now they hate Bush and every other Repuke on the face of this earth.

[dfong63]

16. link here

enter wesley clark

``Only this month did Mr. Clark announce that he is a Democrat. He told us in an interview the other day that he is new to the party -- it's not that he'd been a Democrat all along and kept his affiliation private for reasons of propriety. Asked whether he had voted for Republicans along the way, Mr. Clark said, "I don't even remember." Had he voted for a Republican for president? "I imagine that I voted for Reagan at one time or another," he said.''

``On school vouchers: "We've got to protect public education," but "there may be times and circumstances on an exceptional basis where vouchering makes sense."''

[goobergunch]

20. The question now is:

What is an "exceptional basis"?

[Cheswick2.0]

22. well he is toast in my book

I will not support anyone who voted for Reagan or supports vouchers. Honestly the vouchers are the bigger issue, but the vote for Reagan tells me a lot about him.

[Nixons Bastard Son]

24. i'm with you on the vouchers, but the Reagan thing...

...that's the sort of talk that will get Bush reelected in a heartbeat.

[ScreamingMeemie]

25. I don't even remember... ? I remember every president I ever voted for.

My 90 year old grandmother remembers every president she ever voted for. How can you not remember? Sounds a little evasive.

[otohara]

27. "I imagine that I voted for Reagan at one time or another,"

Wesley was one of those "Reagan Democrats" who helped elect the B grade actor, once or twice - He can't remember?

[edward]

26. Clark- "I...voted for Reagan..."

Sounds like the Democrat we've been looking for.

[ikojo]

43. REAGAN Democrats are welcomed but Nader voters

are persona non grata? What a double standard! At least Nader voters are more in line with what USED to be the Democratic message.

Wonder why fewer and fewer people are voting? It's because the Dems continue to go after people who have forsaken the party in favor of the Republicans.


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[VolcanoJen]

51. I merrily welcome all Reagan and Nader voters...

... who plan to vote for the Democratic Nominee in November of 2004.

What's the problem here...?

[IranianDemocrat]

28. He said there MAY BE TIMES.

Not there are times,

Not now is the time,

He said there MAY BE TIMES when vouchering makes sense. And the Dean people should shut there mouths, Dean is the one with the NRA A rating.

[dfong63]

30. he may not have political experience,

but he's learned well the art of doublespeak.

[IranianDemocrat]

31. Why can't we all just get along?

sigh

[goobergunch]

37. I just want to know what those times are (n/t)

[Forkboy]

44. No,Dean people should not shut their mouth

any more than you should.

[Cheswick2.0]

56. no, there may not be times when vouchers make sense

not ever. It is a stpid right wing privatization scheme and I am sorry so many democrats are falling for it.

[SonofMass]

46. AAaaiiiiiiiiiiEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

[FlashHarry]

21. Yeah! And I heard he even joined the Army!

Although it's just a rumor...

[Enraged American]

29. Duh.

Don't know about the vouchers, but it;s not strange that he voted for Reagan. He was in the military for chrissakes. Reagan increased military spending. Jesus H. Christ@!

[LTR]

32. You people are way too anal retentive!

Let's take a good, hard look at this:

Bush: AWOL, Drunken carousing, Skull and Bones, inept businessman, coke snorter, lies to the American people, and a complete, utter moron.

Clark: Ummm, voted for Reagan. Two decades ago.

You people are really reaching!

Fer cryin' out loud - get a clue people!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

33. Perfect Summary!

Thanks for stating it so clearly!

:thumbsup:

DTH

[Forkboy]

45. Actually DTH it's not a perfect summary

the voucher issue is very important to many people.While the Reagan thing bothers me a little it's not that big a deal.The voucher stuff is.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

48. The Voucher Issue

Clark said he would consider supporting vouchers only in EXTREME circumstances. That's just another way of saying "nothing is impossible," in my mind.

That's a pretty far step from "supporting vouchers." I think it's clear that he's opposed to vouchers, generally speaking.

Perhaps he's not as doctrinaire on the issue as some might like (myself included), but I also respect him keeping an open mind. Some of the greatest innovations have come from considering alternatives to traditional convention, after all.

DTH

[Forkboy]

50. That's good points DTH

Did he say what those extreme conditions are?

PS-Just so you know I'm not anti-Clark,but I am anti-certain-Clark supporters.You're not one of them,and I appreciate you actually being civil to me for expressing the doubts about Clark I do have.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

52. We're All Good, Forkboy

:-)

I appreciated your kind words before, and I appreciate them now. I don't consider you anti-Clark, and again, I'm always happy to engage in civil discussion and point genuinely curious people toward information.

As for your question on voucher specifics, my recollection was that it was a one-line response in an interview, and no specifics were discussed. I'm sure he'll come out with a more detailed position in the next few weeks, though.

I have to admit, I was freaked out at first too, but then I found out it was NoFacts tossing it out in an effort to split the Dem base, and then I dug around for the real quote, and surprise surprise, there was the extreme situations qualifier.

NoFacts is so obvious. ;-)

Peace!

:toast:

DTH

[Forkboy]

NoFacts...I should have known

that explains it all :crazy:

Thanks for the answer...you're a good man!

:toast:

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. Clue number one-We (Democrats) jumped all over Reagan a few years

when he said he "couldn't remember" where he was during the Iran Contra scandal... Now we have Mr./General Clark saying he "can't remember" who he voted for? Come on. I just want straight forward speak from candidates. My anus is just fine, thanks for caring.

[Pastiche423]

36. What clue might that be?

I am a Democrat. I have been a registered Democrat for thirty one years. I have always voted for a Democratic president. I remember every presidential vote I made. I have voted Democratic because I believe in the Democratic ideology.

Why would I vote for someone that "may have voted for Reagan a time or two"?

OR

Why would I vote for someone that doesn't have a fucking clue who he voted for?

I WANT A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT! Not a pretend one.

[LTR]

38. Hypothetical question

Let's say Wesley Clark actually gets the nomination. Again, hypothetical.

Do you vote for Bush? Or Green?

If you believe any Dem nominee can win the election solely from votes from people who have ONLY voted for Democrats all their lives, do you really think that person can win?

In order for anyone to win, they must get support from the undecideds and ones willing to go either way. To believe otherwise is pure denial.

Hell, I'll admit I've voted ouside the party on a few occasions (a few independents and maybe one or two Republicans for minor offices that I cannot remember). I always vote for whom I feel is the best candidate. Example: If I lived in Youngstown, OH, no way in hell would I have voted for Traficant.

I vote primarily for Democrats, but like many, I will cross party lines if I feel it is the best decision to make. I believe many here would agree.

If voting for Reagan once was the worst crime he has ever committed, I can live with that. Hell, I didn't like Mondale either.

Side note: Wouldn't this make a great poll question in the lounge? "Have you ever voted Republican? (Y/N)

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. I personally have never said I wouldn't vote for him. In discussing him,

I am bringing up the fact that I don't like the can't remember statement. I am going to vote Democrat even if it's the
"other" Guy.

[Cheswick2.0]

58. so those are our only two choices, Bush or Clark?

Is the primary over, or are we still allowed to vote for democrats who aren't Clark?

[Dob Bole]

35. I voted for Bush

and I'm now one of the most liberal people that I know. It was my first time voting and I actually fell for the 'I'm gonna reduce poverty and have a treaty with Mexico and good Christian blah blah blah' that, once in office, he didn't actually do.

Statistically, most Americans voted for Reagan. Unless you're in Georgia, or whatever state Mondale was from.

[Bandit]

41. One convert at a time

I would be willing to bet a lot more people who voted for Bush* are changing than those who voted for Gore. Maybe I'm just an optimist but I sense the tide is changing.

[ikojo]

47. I proudly say I NEVER voted for a Republican!

I cast my first vote in 1984 and it was proudly cast against Ronald Wilson Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush in favor of Walter Mondale and Geraldine Ferraro.

[Uzybone]

49. Then you can never be a good democrat

according to some people here.

[Mz Pip]

42. Remember Jim Jeffords????

He was the guy we all embraced with joy when he left the Repug party? Remember how we wrote him thank you notes? Remember how we thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread? Bet he voted for Reagan. Obviously he isn't really sincere since he was a Republican. Maybe he's really some kind of plant, some Rovian mole who is reporting back to all his friends in the Repug Party.

Guess we'd better ask for those thank-you notes back. :crazy:

MzPip
:dem:

[VolcanoJen]

55. That was a healthy post, MzPip!

Thank you for that!!!

I'm a member of the "non-exclusionary wing of the Democratic Party."

I voted for Reagan once, too, and I'm not even ashamed to admit it, because it doesn't really affect my liberal "street cred" today.

In addition, I know plenty of Republicans who voted for Bush I, and then voted for Clinton against Dole. I welcomed them with open arms then, and I welcome any and all crossover voters to the Democratic side in '04. We really need to get out of a "club" mentality if we're going to be a Big Umbrella party.

That said, I do think the rules change when you're running for President. I think it should be irrelevant if one of us posters voted Repub a time or too, but I can understand the relevancy of a presidential candidate saying he voted Republican. I still think it's a non-starter, but I can see where others would feel differently.

Let's please not pick on each other here in the forums for having voted Repub, Independent or Green in the past. It's silly, and it's kind of "Republican" sounding...

[janekat]

54. That's better than supporting the Daeth Penalty in my book.. n/t

[union_maid]

57. I think it's kind of brilliant

Career military officers have their preferences, no doubt, but they must serve whatever administration is in at any given time and do it with conviction. Just to be able to do that would mean that they'd look at the political process a little differently than we do. Party politics must mean less to them that to us almost by definition. I think that's part of what got Powell in the mess he's in, but Clark is different. In retirement he's defined himself politically, which I think that Powell failed to do in time to save his soul - so to speak. I think that Powell thought he could go on serving, regardless of the politics of the administration he was in and the rest is history. It's possible that this miserable excuse for an administration and the damage they're doing to the country actually helped Clark define his politics more completely. I wouldn't know that, but it's perfectly possible.

As to the Reagan remark. Kind of weird to be so vague, but on the other hand, Reagan remains one of the most popular presidents ever. Plenty of people who are very unhappy with Bush remember Reagan fondly. I admit to not understanding that. I think he was the second worst president in my lifetime, but those are the facts. So, hearing that he might have voted for Reagan might just bring a lot of Reagan Democrats back into the fold and help to create a lot of Clark Republicans. That would be a good thing. Clark is not as far left as Kucinich, but I truly believe that he could do more to move the center to the left than a Kucinich could in the forseeable future. That said, the person who did Al Gore's make-up for that debate where he looked like Reagan should be taken out and..spoken to sternly. (I'd say shot, but I don't believe in the death penalty.) Saying that you voted for him once is one thing, trying to be him even in appearance only is beyond the pale, not to mention very silly.

[Zero Division]

59. Funny: apparently Novak attacked Clark for the exact opposite opinions

I guess this is what happens in the mass confusion when a candidate just starts his campaign.

I think it was yesterday that someone posted that Novak criticized Clark for opposing vouchers and thinking Reagan was a terrible president.

:crazy:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

60. Huh? Now I'M Confused.

That wasn't how I heard it at all.

I'd like to dig into this a bit more, if anyone has any info.

Thanks!

DTH