The Truth About Clark & Reagan

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

I am a huge fan of the General, President of www.GWForClark.com, and here is the article and context of Clark's Reagan comments.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22452-2003Sep17.html

Asked whether he had voted for Republicans along the way, Mr. Clark said, "I don't even remember." Had he voted for a Republican for president? "I imagine that I voted for Reagan at one time or another," he said. It will be interesting to see how that plays with Democratic Party activists.


And on vouchers .....

On school vouchers: "We've got to protect public education," but "there may be times and circumstances on an exceptional basis where vouchering makes sense." On capital punishment: "In exceptional cases you might use the death penalty."


My Analysis ....

His possible vote for Reagan has absolutely no bearing on Clark's current liberalism. Dean vehmently opposed the civil union bill before he finally signed it. There are countless examples of individuals' political beliefs evolving over time. Rest assured, Wes Clark is NO Ronald Reagan. Secondly on vouchers, I do not believe that there are ANY circumstances which merit vouchers but Gen Clark's statement indicate he would certainly not push a national voucher program. He's just open to the idea in exceptional circumstanes. Clark is at least as liberal as Gore and more liberal than Bill & Hillary, both of whom supported the Iraqi War. These attacks by Novak and other Repugs only suggest that they are scared shitless about a Clark candidacy.

All that I ask is that you give Clark a chance .... his 34 years of public service demand it.

[Fixated]

1. .....

Also, most Dems support the Death Penalty.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

10. I am opposed to Capital Punishment......

I will not hold it against Clark IF he actually did vote Ronnie sometime ago!

[Bandit]

15. I would suggest that that is opinion based on nothing

I doubt most Dems support Death Penalty. Would need some pretty substantial data to support that claim before I'd believe it.

[Nixons Bastard Son]

34. unfortunately...

...the Democrats in power, or the ones who are trying to gain power, make a point of not being clear about their stance on the death penalty and, like Clinton, not opposing once they're elected. it's one of those issues that, for whatever reason, Democrats are willing to compromise on.

this far in the campaign, we've seen Dean, one of the progressives(!), get all wishy-washy on his death penalty stance. why do democrats do this?? i can't imagine Republicans being as wishy-washy on abortion...

[Bandit]

37. It has been widely published that the majority of Americans support

the Death Penalty and I suppose that is why they are afraid to buck the tide but it has never been said to my knowlege that a majority of Democrats also support the death penalty. Except by the poster above and I questioned their source for saying that.

[cally]

2. Thanks...for the links

I absolutely loathe Reagan and I don't understand why anyone would have voted for him. However, as long as Clark comes out with an economic policy that is nothing like Reagans then I will not hold it against him.

[VolcanoJen]

5. Cally, I was a misguided, youthful, first-time voter when I voted...

... for Reagan. Believe me, if I could take it back, I would. I just didn't know any better.

I'm sorry. :-(

Now, Clark simply can't use that excuse... although it wouldn't surprise me that a high-ranking Army officer voted for Reagan, even if he's a left-leaning officer. I don't really like it, but it wouldn't surprise me or be a deal-breaker, either.

[janekat]

16. Me too. I was raised in a Pub. family (now I've been disowned, of course!)

[random]

29. Let's also not forget that Reagan was once a Dem...

even though he was a suck-ass pres.

[edward]

42. Reagan was also ratting out actors when he was president of

the actors union.

[cally]

17. Ok, what's your economic policy?

:P I know folks change their beliefs and learn more about policies. I once refused to vote for Carter because I thought he was too conservative. I wish I could take that vote back.

[VolcanoJen]

31. People can turn on a dime, too...

For example, when I was 18, in 1984, I voted for Reagan. Only four years later, in 1988, I was the Dukakis coordinator in my congressional district. It only took me about two years of Reagan to turn into a rabid, fightin' Liberal.

God, losing that election sucked so hard... :-(

[pmbryant]

36. Me too

I had my own transformation, a few years after yours. I don't think I can bear to admit here what I did before the transformation, though. ;-)

:scared:

--Peter

[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. I'd say many Dean voters are about to commit the same exact "offense"

you did with Reagan. But the world ever turns..... (sigh)

BTW: anyone who can't remember who they voted for scares me. Worse, military minds are supposed to be razor sharp and have steel trap memories. I'd say chances are good Clark is lying when he says he doesn't remember.

[Blue-Jay]

39. Here's what I don't understand, Jen.

You voted for Reagan when you were younger for your own reasons. that's fine, and I don't have a problem with that. A person's philosophy is bound to change in one direction or another over the course of years. No problems there. (and I'm glad you came around, BTW ;) )

Here's my point: At least you remember voting for Reagan! I don't like Clark's answer about that. His "Weeell, seems to me that I did vote for the Ol' Pants Crapper at one time or another..." doesn't sit well with me. Just answer the question, Wes! No big deal. LOTS of Democrats voted for Reagan. Most of them know better now. I wouldn't hold a 20 year old vote against someone.

I'd have much preferred an answer like: "Yes, I voted for Reagan. In retrospect, I think I made a bad decision." or something to that effect.

For the record, Clarkies, I'm not bashing the general. I'm still undecided on how I'll cast my primary vote, and Clark is most definately one of my top picks. I just hate ambiguous answers to yes-or-no questions.

[roguevalley]

3. bobby kennedy voted for eisenhower

people change and grow. bobby did and clark has. he has the right moves for me.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

7. Exactly, and Plus Remember

Wes was in the thick of the military when Reagan was running, and that was one of Reagan's NUMBER ONE positions, was support of the military. It was also a popular perception at the time (whether fair or not) that Carter was not sufficiently supportive of the military.

All of it was rhetoric, true, but it was good enough rhetoric to convince most of the country (military and otherwise) to vote for Reagan in a landslide, sadly.

DTH

[PurityOfEssence]

13. For that matter, Bobby was counsel for Joe McCarthy, but he REMEMBERED it

Are we going to hear memory games from a genius? Is it something to brushed off that lightly? Can he at least step up and say WHY he'd have done such an idiotic or nasty thing, and how he's seen the damn light? That's important.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. No, I'm Not Defending Him on That

I don't like the "don't remember" thing one bit. I agree that it sounds really lame.

DTH

[VolcanoJen]

22. I was very, very confused when Clark tried to defend that...

... this morning on CNN. He threw in something about absentee ballots and the Florida recount, but it bothers me that he "can't remember" who he's voted for in past presidential elections.

[Nixons Bastard Son]

30. hm...

If supporting Reagan in the '80s was an idiotic, nasty thing, there are a lot of idiotic, nasty Americans walking around...it's not like with Bush, where the majority didn't even vote for him. People LOVED Reagan, and Clark's support of him doesn't bug me in the least.

And of course Bobby would've supported Eisenhower! Eisenhower was a great president...if Republicans were more like Eisenhower, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.

-seth

[pmbryant]

23. Furthermore, 59% of the country voted for Reagan in 1984

59%!

It's stunning to me to read that number, but there it is. :shrug:

I really don't think this will hurt Clark. That was a long time ago.

I wasn't old enough to vote at the time, but the possibility exists that even I could have voted for Reagan myself that year. (Thankfully, I wasn't tested! ;-) ) I was in high school and too caught up in my own selfish personal interests to have much interest in national politics. Also, I grew up in a liberal area in a liberal family and my way of rebelling, I guess, was to consider myself an 'independent' voter.

:eyes:

--Peter

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. It Was A Youthful Indiscretion

NT

[clar]

6. Can we keep things honest?

Dean did not vehemently oppose Civil Unions. I was involved in the pro CU movement in Vermont. That's just not true. And after the decision, Dean went to bat for CUs all over the state, in person and on the air.

[qb]

8. I don't care if he voted for Raygun, but what's this "I don't remember" BS

I remember quite clearly all of the presidential votes I cast. What did he do - flip a coin at the polling place?

Am I being too harsh? I'm just so sick of the "Don't remember"/"Don't recall" bs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. It's Easy For Me To Remember Cuz I'm Not A Ticket Splitter

I am a dying breed ... The yellow dog Democrat...

[Skwmom]

19. I'm younger than Clark and believe it or not

I really don't remember whether I voted for Clinton in his last term or not. I was debating between him and a third party candidate. I think I did end up voting for Clinton because I was worried about the Repubs take control of everything. But I'm not certain because honestly I don't remember.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

9. Just wondering..

How does Clark voting for Reagan in the past have any effect on the present, or the future? People do change opinions and beliefs as time passes by. Arianna Huffington used to be a Republican, and she wasn't even in the military!

BTW, does Novak ALWAYS drool and foam at the mouth as he did today? I cannot stand that man, whether its the way he talks, or what he says.

[ShimokitaJer]

11. I wish he'd come out and say it.

I don't think it has any bearing on whether or not he's a good liberal, but playing coy and saying that he doesn't remember is the kind of thing that gives the Bob Novaks of the world ammunition to attack him with. At best, it sounds flaky and at worst it sounds evasive.

[dfong63]

18. thanks for the link

a bit more context from the article, prior to the part you quoted:

Only this month did Mr. Clark announce that he is a Democrat. He told us in an interview the other day that he is new to the party -- it's not that he'd been a Democrat all along and kept his affiliation private for reasons of propriety. Asked whether he had voted for Republicans along the way, Mr. Clark said, "I don't even remember." Had he voted for a Republican for president? "I imagine that I voted for Reagan at one time or another," he said. It will be interesting to see how that plays with Democratic Party activists.

speaking for myself only here... if this were the only anomaly about Clark, that he'd voted for Reagan, it wouldn't bother me too much. but as part of the package, it leaves a sour taste. Clark the flirt and rumor-mongerer. Clark the NEW democrat, who can't remember how he voted in the past. Clark the man with NO electoral track record. there's too much glitter, and not enough substance.

[MasonJar]

21. Clark and the Vote

Actually he said that he might have voted for Reagan. I voted for Reagan once too; the man lied like all good Repugs. He had a deal with Iran regarding the hostages; we all know it now. When Novak came down on Clark's domestic knowledge, Belaga let him have it with the fact that Clark has also been an investment banker. He then reminded everyone of Bush's economic failures. It was classic. Belaga won today.

[MysticMind]

24. this just shows that Clark...

Like many voters are generally apolitical and wants to support whatever solution will get things done.

[Nixons Bastard Son]

27. !

ding ding ding!

and i think that's what the "silent majority" of Americans want this time around - they don't want Bush, but they don't want Bush's fiery, liberal counterpart...thus far, this is what the candidates have been portrayed as. Wesley Clark should do well to counter that image.

[MysticMind]

32. exactly...

We need to stop being portrayed as just wanting to do the opposite of whatever Bush does. We need to actually stand for something rather than just "Not as bad as Bush."

[newsguyatl]

25. oh my

clark voted for the man who let 25,000 gay men die of aids before he even addressed it nationally?

i don't like that, not at all...


and what does he mean "i might have voted for reagan?" doesn't he KNOW if he voted for reagan or not? did he vote AGAINST carter?


geez

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Just Remember

Good little boys and girls everywhere....

Voting Democrat means never having to say you're sorry...

[LightTheMatch]

28. Some Dems support vouchers.

I have seen polling data that shows a majority of African Americans, for example, seem to support school vouchers.

[Pepperbelly]

33. David Pryor ...

the man who introduced Wesley today, is known in his home state of Arkansas as "Mr. Democrat."

He has no doubts about Wesley's affiliation. It amuses me to see the nit-picking.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. Of Course

Only on Planet DU are there no ticket splitters...


I never voted R but I wouldn't hold others to my "Leninist" party discipline....

[dsc]

38. Reality check

Dean did not oppose the Civil Union bill before he signed (neither vehimently or otherwise). He had never made any public comment before the decision was handed down and within an hour of the decision came out in favor of Civil Unions. Whatever the case maybe with Clark don't tell stories you like about Dean. (quote has been posted here many times you can find it at Out In the Mountains which is the official LGBT paper in VT.)

[shatoga]

40. Reality check: Clark can WIN

Democrats need another Eisenhower to pry the white House out of the
corrupt hands of Republicans.
Clark can win by a margin big enough to overcome Republicans usual FIXING of elections.

anyone who wants bush re-elected is no Democrat!

[edward]

43. Of course, you know Eisenhower was a Republican.

Are you saying the best bet for the Democratic Party is to run a "republican?"

[Trek234]

41. ,

,

[Donna Zen]

44. Amused at the nit picking?

Well, I'm trying but it gets harder by the minute.

Who did Clark vote for? St. Ronny? Well I just want to fall on my knees and pray he brings every Raygun voter back with him. Clark is obviously setting up for the general election (damn...if he gets the nomination, will the media play that pun to its max. oh yeah) and knows that it will take eating away at the repub base. It is the very thing David Brooks pointed out in his column: the American electoral landscape is like two mountains with very little hope for crossover. Keep the bridge intact, don't blow it up. One of Clark's strengths is that he had the opportunity to present himself as non-partisan...I say use the tools that come to you.

Opportunities multiply as they are seized." -Sun Tzu.

ps.I did not vote for president in '68 because I was young and so full of piss and vinegar I didn't get it.

I did not vote for Carter in because he was too Christian and it scared me off. I voted for Eugene McCarthy.

I have voted for repug women, and learned the hard way about evil sisters.

If you have lived all over the world including the DMZ, there just might have been times when you did not vote or can't remember if you mailed the damn thing in time.

Want to have a nice read? Read the military letters to Clark on their website. It cheered me up...note: many of them are active duty.

_______________________

I'm afraid to read the newspaper daily for fear of what names I might see. I left Iraq in May, although many close friends are still in Iraq, not to mention hundreds of thousands of other Americans. President Bush completely ignored the Powell Doctrine that was established as a result of the painful memories of Vietnam and has needlessly risked the lives of Americans. While the support I can offer as a Cadet is minimal, I offer what I can to help elect Wesley Clark President of the United States in 2004.
 
Derek Kent
Cadet (Previously PFC.)  - US Army
Germany -- Kuwait / Iraq
2002


As a chaplain who has served in the war on terror and Operation Enduring Freedom, I know how much the men and women of our armed services in harms way need and caring and strong leadership.
 
Richard Denison
 Chaplain Lt. Col.  - USAF, Pa Air National Guard 
City - Harrisburg, PA
1990-Present

I have been looking forward to the day when General Clark entered the race. This next election will be a decision on how to balance homeland security/the economy with our foreign policy. I think 9/11 showed us that the two are inexplicably tied together. The question is how do we these into balance? I'm not sure the current field of democratic candidates can do that, but perhaps General Clark can. I am not impressed with our current President. Anyone can rally the military - and I believe that we are used as pawns of the Republican Party far too often. I look forward to hearing General Clark speak on the issues. R/ Jeff Richards
 
 Jeff Richards
 LCDR -CDR  - USNR
 Natick,  MA
1987 – present

Gen Clark, all us politically active enlisted members are behind you in your bid for the presidency. We wish you the very best and look forward to supporting you in your quest for the presidency.
Frank Pacino
Corporal
US Marine Corps
Camp Pendleton, California
2000 to present
 
------------------------

Many of these folks have voted "r" in the past, they want to vote for a Democrat...but not any Democrat. They want someone who will fucking get our country out of this hell hole. So do I !