Dumping CHENEY--the perfect Rove solution

[DrBB]

I know there have been rumors about this--and appy-polly-loggies to Oasis, whose slightly differently-angled thread inspired this--but just considered in the abstract, Dump Cheney is a win-win for Rove.

Consider: Cheney really IS the chief architect behind the disastrous Iraq policy, greatest threat to the Precious Chimp so far. Yeah, I know, Wolfie drew up the plans, but it was Cheney as SecDef who called for them and who ignored Colon's wimpier plan way back at the end of Bush I.

So fine, he's had his way, and his proteges have been given there heads and look where it's gotten us (i.e. Me and the Precious Chimp Of Gold)--up the diarrhea river without an outboard. Plus he's old--everyone'll understand if he wants to Spend More Time With His Family. Dickie ticker 'n' all. So we don't even have to say anything openly. But he becomes--we let the pundits all know this--the invaluable scapegoat. "It was Cheney!" they'll be whispering, and then not whispering. "All Cheney's fault! Led the poor lad astray! Falstaff to his Hal!" Whatever happened to Kompassionate Konservatism? everyone is wondering. Cheney! Cheney, the snarling old bastid. But we dumped him! See?

Proof or evidence for any of this? Not much. Just this one thing. But I think it's crucial:

They let Dickie go way out on that hardline, 9/11=Saddam, "I still believe every lie I told you" limb over the weekend. And then within 48 hours all the Good Students, the ones who wanted to show they were on the Right Team--namely, Condi and Rummy--came out with, "Who in the world ever suggested Saddam had anything to do with 9/11? goodness, WE never said anything like that."

Look for Safire to signal it in the times. He was one of the big proponents of the 9/11-Saddam connection from the get go, outside the admin. Rove won't care whether he "gets it" or not, but he'll need to signal that he does right soon, since his fealty to the Bush clan has always been under a shadow, ever since he went after Bush I for Iraq-gate back in 90-91. He's always had to do his sucking up very prominently so they wouldn't cut him out. (Anybody wonder why NYTImes hired Broder, or how Bill might feel about that? Hot breath on your shoulder there, Mr Safire?).

[cthrumatrix]

1. It seems as though Iraq-911 comments from Clark have * and his

team in denial .... and on the defense so they can make Clark look bad.

The problem is that there are just too many interviews and quotes to show the truth.

Time will tell...70% believe there's an Iraq connection.

[HPLeft]

2. The Fish Rots From The Head Down

They can try to hang Cheney (and I do agree that they might), but it will not sell in November 2004. Dubya is the Chump-in-Chief, and if he bought a bill of goods from Tricky Dick, he has no business being President. So, if they hang Cheney, it only demonstrates that his boss was a fool to listen to him.

[Prodemsouth]

4. What Do you think would happen if they put Powell in as VP?

Do you think using Condi and Powell will work to try to drag traditional Democratic Voters to Bush, they don't need it to work all the way just some. I am going to go out on a limb-here right now and say I don't think Cheney will be VP on the ticket in 04. What do you think?

[scottxyz]

36. I don't think Condi and Powell have much respect from black people

Many black people regard Condi and Powell same way they regard Clarence Thomas - as sellouts. (I'm not black but I live with a black guy in a heavily black neighborhood. He would use the word "Uncle Tom" for people like Powell, Rice and Thomas.)

On a related note, here is some insightful analysis by Atrios on "identity politics" pointing out that minorities who DO have a voice in national politics are often handpicked for being "contrarian":

It's more than obvious that minorities tend to get more media play when they're being "contrarian." So, not only are, say, African-Americans underrepresented, the viewpoint of the African-American community at large is even more underrepresented. I'm not arguing that any racial/ethnic group is monolithic in its opinions, but clearly conservative African-Americans are greatly overrepresented, relatively speaking.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_07_atrios_archive.html#106295210676774650

I also recall after the last Republican Convention, which had so many black people on the stage - black people in the audience weren't all impressed, they know window-dressing when they see it. TNew York Times had a front-page analysis where they asked a black woman what she thought of all those black faces up on stage for the Republican Convention, and she said she thought she wasn't impressed.

[Beetwasher]

3. I Think There's ALOT More Going On

This may have something to do with Poppy's Russia trip too.

This may be some well earned humble pie for the admin that's being force fed on them from the international community, including Russia. If they want international help in Iraq, heads have to roll and they have to fess up to the Iraq-9/11 lies.

[DrBB]

6. I wish that were true

...and I general turn up my nose at "Rove Knows All Sees All" threads (like this one).

But I do NOT think statements like Rummy and Condi's are spontaneous and I do NOT think this particular adminstration lets major figures like Cheney go out on the Sunday shows without letting him know--or letting him THINK he knows--what the current Party Line is.

It's like outer space: to move in a certain direction you have to push off something in the opposite direction. To appear to be moving to the center, we give a big ol' shove to poor old Dickie-heart Cheney. Sorry Dick, you won't be going with us. But thanks for the momentum.

I'd love to see this as confusion among our enemies. And I think they are under pressure, particularly by Clark's entry (which helps the whole Dem ticket, I think, whether he gets the nomination or not). But these kinds of statements and appearances are VERY carefully prepped. This is not an area where accidents are allowed to happen very often, especially in this administration. And I see absolutely no evidence of scrambling to cover a misstep in this case. Nope. It was planned. And it left Dick's ass hanging in the breeze. And what was the reason? Iraq. He Let Our Side Down. Your plan didn't work, Dick. Sorry. Have a nice coupla years or whatever you got left. We'll cover for you, but you're outta here.

That's how I read these tea leaves.

[qanda]

5. Honestly, I think it's the only chance * will have next year.

Cheney is becoming more and more of a liability and even some repubs don't like him. I think a lot of them will bail on * unless he gets a new running mate. I guess it's time for the BFEE to alter the prescription for Cheney's heart medication.

[thebigidea]

7. I think Cheney's influence trumps Rove

maybe Crashcart is cashing out and heading for some cushy job like Chairman of the Defense Policy Board after the reselection...



Bigtime SnarlySneer vs. Turd Blossom!
I'd pay $14.95 to see that on pay-per-view.

[FauxNewsBlues]

8. Second hand Rumor

I can't vouch for it's veracity, but there is a scandal coming up on Cheney unrelated to Iraq, something financial in nature. The dime is about to be dropped, and the goods are solid, and the admin is distancing themselves from Cheney prior to it's unveiling.

I can't verify if this is true, but I just got off the phone with somebody who swears it is the real deal.

[Beetwasher]

9. It's his Halliburton Ties

I'd bet on it...

[AngryYoungMan]

12. Is it even possible to take Cheney down?

As we all know, he's a master of self-insulation, par excellance.

No matter how badly things go, he is never to blame; never imperiled or even inconvenienced; never even mentioned. It's a constant throughout his career.

So, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Ouabache]

13. Somebody big has called for his head

he will be dropped.

[BigBigBigBear]

16. It's worse

It's the Energy Task Force's blatant planning for post-Saddam oil revenue.

Klayman's already got one hook in that fish.

Cheney will be seeing a doctor in the next few months, and calmly explain that, while his health is good, he'll sit out 2004.

This is good news for Condi - her star was setting after the Yellowcake affair, but with Cheney gone, her stock increases - especially as a possible VP replacement.

[kysrsoze]

31. Well, of course. Have you EVER seen a bigger conflict of interest?

How long has this been public knowledge? My God. The dude is having to fight to keep the names of the energy task force members private.

[cthrumatrix]

10. Maybe the Supreme is to say 'no" to stoppin his secret energy panel

report (iragq maps).

Once released it could be damaging for him and others.

[Hokie]

11. If that is true they can try but..

I hope you are right. They may try to distance the Idiot* but when the $*$& hits the fan the stink does spread around. When Spiro Agnew got nailed for taking kickbacks and had to resign this helped sell the idea that Nixon was the head of a corrupt administration (which of course he was). Even though technically the Agnew mess was unrelated to Watergate it helped bring down Tricky Dick.

[AngryYoungMan]

17. Cheney CAN'T BE TOUCHED!

They WANT Energy Commision to go to the Supreme Court. It's what they WANT. Because then, Scalia et al. will give Dick the get out of jail card.

Believe it. Don't entertain any illusions about Cheney's vulnerability. They would execute Bush before they fined Cheney.

[Enraged_Ape]

29. The SC won't touch this one, IMHO

1) Because the Cheney energy document affair has jack shit to do with the U.S. Constitution. The SC could spin the Florida hijacking that way (election of a President, don't ya know), but there is no mention of energy meetings or executive privilege on that sainted parchment, last time I checked.

2) They are already under the gun for the 2000 Election debacle. To dubiously put themselves into this fray, and stick up for Cheney, would only call more attention to it.

3) Cheney is obviously being served up like the fatted calf. They want him to go down.

[spanone]

14. Cheney is a scandal. Visceral dis-like. Hate him. Can't stand him.

An asshole. Arrogant fart. Prick of huge proportions.

[Emboldened Chimp]

15. Can you give more details?

Who is this person, in general? Are they normally reliable? Did they give more details about when it'll drop?

[FauxNewsBlues]

18. This person I trust. They know somebody at State

I don't know the person at State though. Could be just blowing smoke. I absolutely believe this person was told this by somebody at State, but I don't have any way of knowing the veracity of the State Department person. From what I gathered, it is a careerist there, so take that for what it's worth.

[qanda]

19. I believe you!

After hearing Condi and Rumsfeld say something about there being no ties between 9/11 and Iraq and then * saying the same thing today, I started thinking, "Something major is about to blow".

[Malva Zebrina]

20. Cheney would not even care

he has no allegiance and no interest in this country or it's people. All he has ever cared about is his own interests. There is no honor in Cheney or in Bush , or in Powell or in Rice. They are not capable of anything that would resemble a reflective soul.

Cheney will accept the scapegoat role--what would it matter to him? He has riches, he has power--and he has not long to live. It will be the ultimate in sacrifice to Halliburton, for which he will be well paid, and that is all that would matter to people like Cheney--the man without a heart.

[blm]

23. I agree totally with you.

.

[kysrsoze]

32. The fuck he won't care

You don't think he gets off on the amount of power he's had - he's been running the country (into the ground, that is). To be stripped of all that and ridiculed, it's not going to be pretty. I'd be surprised if he didn't try to think of a way to screw everyone after they turn their backs on him.

[Zuni]

33. I agree on Cheney

Bush is just dumb, I don't know much about Condoleeza, but I think Powell is a man of intense loyalty--that is why he puts up with the neo-cons trying to marganalize him.

[eleny]

21. I don't see Falstaff etc...

I see Bush as Faust. In the end, as Wes Clark just asserted to Tweety, that * is responsible for the final decisions no matter what he didn't know.

Ultimately, * can't escape this one. This isn't a driver's license record that can be erased, a charge that will be expunged or a biography that will be twisted and washed clean.

So, maybe it's because I'm just angry. But Cheney would have to take a dirt nap before I would believe it was an illness that made him leave office.

[DrBB]

27. I'm just saying that'll be the propaganda angle

I'm just caricaturing how Tweety and his ilk will treat it if it happens.

My surmise could be all wrong. But they let him get way out on a limb this weekend and then the others--Rummy, Condi, the Shrump itself--went gaily zipping off in this other direction. Telling the truth when the old snarler was sticking to last year's lies. That kind of thing does NOT happen accidentally--I'm quite sure they all touch base before going out on these shows--this is the most "on message" administration in history. Somebody has left the Dick hanging to the wind, and the news shows tonight were all over him. Why? I've given my theory.

[Starpass]

22. The timing for this has come and gone

They can drop Cheney or execute in the public square but their timing is now gone for good. There were other times and pressures where hanging things on Cheney and then getting rid of him would have made the American people feel all cleansed and back kissy, kissy Bush. No one now will buy into scapegoats or give a damn--even if he fired every one of their asses. The people are looking at the clown in the jumpsuit and pissing on HIM. It's way to late for sacrificial lambs.

[Octafish]

24. Let the trials begin.

Rove would drive an Abrams over his own mother to keep his corner office in the West Wing. Imagine what he would do to Clean Lynn and Sneering Dick Cheney?

So, rather than face defeat, get the Rotting Big Fish overboard now. At least, the Sneer is the biggest carp Rove can find before getting to the Head Rat, no not Chimpy McCokespoon, who's only the public face of the Bush Organized Crime Family — Poppy and his mistress, Babs.

Thanks for a very astute analysis, Doctor. Do you and oasis do prosecutions, too? I volunteer to draft the charges, starting with Treason, Murder, Conspiracy to name a few.

Later, after We the People use some of the New-USA Ashcan-Gitmo-torture tricks on the "defendants," they'll be busier than Ollie North's shredder spilling the beans on those at the top. And the next food chain for the lot of them would be entered after spending the rest of their natural days making license plates.

Jail the lot of them. Put the traitors before a military tribunal.

[TennesseeWalker]

25. Cheney...his plan all along..think of that..

You can almost see him sitting in front of a huge fireplace, his shadowy corporate new world order buddies having just left...he has his marching orders...."War".....thunder....lightning flashes....


Meanwhile, Shrub is doing a line back in Crawford, and Pickles has her new lingerie on....

[indepat]

26. Finding a scapegoat would mean that W never has to say he was wrong, that

he is sorry, or that he has ever erred. Such would demonstrate the buck never stops with him: it is always somebody else's fault. Does W's makeup require that he always have all the glory and never take any of the blame or responsibility for anything? Have we any amateur psychiatrists in the house?

[dusty64]

28. halliburton and

the energy papers (which will reveal Iraqi invasion plans and deals with the Taliban prior to 9/11) scandals are about to hit the fan. Get rid of crashcart before its too late, but it won't save them now (unless of course, the electronic "voting" mess isn't addressed soon.)

[BigBigBear]

30. 10-4

dusty.

Brisard and Dasquie's tale comes back to roost.

Kinda like it was two French guys, too. Nice ironic twist.

[Zuni]

34. I think Cheney might be used to take the fall

I see the logic in it. Besides, his buisness ties make the Bush admin look even more shady than they would already look.
Cheney will be sacrificed, Rice will be VP (black and female) and Rove will have the perfect scapegoat to hang over the Iraq mess.

[scottxyz]

35. Cheney Energy Task Force Documents Feature Map of Iraqi Oilfields

http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml
http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.c_.shtml

Cheney's secret Iraqi oilfield maps were obtained by Judicial Watch under the Freedom of Information Act this summer - but they were drawn up WAY BEFORE 9/11. This suggests that Cheney wanted to invade Iraq (for the oil, for the Halliburton $$$) way before 9/11.

[oasis]

37. Respected political analyst, David Gergen said the 9/11&Saddam

story has resurfaced because Chimpy needs to clear the books on the issue before 2004. Gergen is too polite to say it's a Rovejob. But that's exactly what it is, a Rovejob.

[demgrrrll]

38. Oh, Nevermind.... will clear the decks? I don't think so.

More and more I am feeling that we are watching the beginning of a long downward spiral which will end when Bush packs up and leaves the WH in 04. I think it is too late.

[proud patriot]

39. Wolfie and Rummy were Cheney's boys IMHO n/t