I've decided to switch my support from Dean to Clark.

[TakebackAmerica]

Today I've decided to switch my support from Howard Dean to Wesley Clark.Why? Because Clark has a vision for what America should be like in 100 years. Clark has the credentials to take on AWOL dubya. His vision for Amreica is what we need right now.
I respectfully disagree with everyone who tries to smear,trash and bash Clark. Clark is not a voucher loving, Reagan voting,WW3 starting crazy general. He also is not a "Vain, pompus brown-noser."
These are VICIOUS personal attacks of the like which even Karl Rove is impressed by.

I love Doctor Dean with all my heart. When Bill Bradbury {Oregon's Secratary of State} endorsed Dean I knew Dean was the right canidate. I trust and respect Bradbury and knew whoever he supported would be the best canidate. I looked up Dean and watched Dean TV and he swept me off my feet.

But I think now is the time in American history when we ned a gracious, visionary who had no plans of running but beacuse of a band of committed thought he would be a great president, ran.
This is why I support the Dove General.

Thank You and Good Night.

[Evanstondem]

1. You're being a bit hasty

You don't know how Clark will perform as a campaigner and debater. I doubt that you know his policy positions as well as Dean's. A wait and see position seems more appropriate, especially if you're so fond of Doctor Dean.

[TakebackAmerica]

3. Thanks

I will consider that.

[Hawkeye-X]

10. Also, what will hurt Clark the most

is the following problems:

1) He's a neophyte politican, never experienced politics before
2) He's also neophyte on mudslinging
3) Conflict of schedule on debate will hurt him
4) Link to the Clinton era - was NATO commander during the Kosovo conflict. (Not that I'm dissing Clinton, but people still have problems with Clinton though)
5) Late entry into the politics, although Clinton himself was a late entry as well....

I would wait. I like Clark too, but I'd rather see him as VP so he can gain valuable experience as a politican before testing waters in 2012 as a Presidential candidate, hopefully a successor to the Dean era.

Hawkeye-X

[kysrsoze]

24. I know what you mean about links to Clinton w/ the Bosnian situation

I actually spoke with a "libertarian" who thought Clinton sucked as bad as Bush b/c he didn't get UN approval to go into Kosovo. The US went in with the backing of NATO, and since it was in the region governed by NATO, I really could give a crap. Wish I had told him that at the time.

Anyway, I have no reservations about the NATO action - that place was a bloodbath and we went in as part of a multi-national force to bring back peace. We did the same thing in Mogodishu but had some serious problems. I have no problems with military operations if the sole intent is to ensure long-term peace.

[kysrsoze]

18. Yeah, take it easy, will ya?

I REALLY like Clark after listening to what he has to say, but everyone else is right - Dean leads for a reason. Though I would definitely vote for Clark if he became the nominee. I need to hear a lot more of what they both have to say and I'm now completely geeked to watch the debates again - missed the last one.

[TakebackAmerica]

2. I hope I...

made some sense here.

[ComerPerro]

4. Whatever works

They seem pretty similar to me.

Just remember that we are all on the same side here.

[quinnox]

5. Probably many are

I have seen numerous posts talking about switching from Dean to Clark, there was a huge thread just on this subject. It will be interesting to see the poll numbers a month or so from now, to see if this effect is as pronounced as it seems to be.

[ComerPerro]

7. I think you are right

I figured Clark would pull a lot of the base support from Kerry, but he seems to be taking quite a bit from Dean as well.

[quinnox]

11. One thing is for sure, the spotlight is off

Dean, for now at least. It remains to be seen if Clark will sizzle or fizzle.

[ComerPerro]

12. Yeah, thats a good point

Time will tell. It will be interesting to see if the base support, which is now switching to Clark, will remain there.

[ComerPerro]

8. I think you are right

Hmm, didn't realize I posted twice

But now that I have your attention...


Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah penis blah blah blah blah. Blah, blah blah blah blah knife, blah blah blah; blah blah blah blah blah. Blah:
Blah - blah blah blah Dean blah.
Blah - blah blah blah blah Clark.
Blah - blah Kucinich blah blah blah.
Blah, blah blah blah blah blah terrorism blah blah blah blah The Beatles blah blah.

[oasis]

16. Dems are desperate for a winner. I'm still with Kerry but I admit, Clark

has all the tools it takes to win decisively over the Chimp.

[quinnox]

I'm still with Kerry too as my first choice

I agree though, Clark might become a formidable candidate.

[bluestateguy]

6. Me too

But I won't criticize Dean on this board (unless he himself goes vary nasty). Dean can win, but Clark could potentially win in a landslide.

[sfecap]

9. Will Clark include Pearle, Wolfowitz, Feith and Rumsfeld

in his vision?

They are in his words "colleagues", whom he likes very much.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/24/clark/index2.html

Dove and General are mutually exclusive terms.

[TakebackAmerica]

13. NO!

The Dove General would never support those people.
The day Clark has dinner with Rummy is the day I get a Komodo Dragon for a pet.

[IranianDemocrat]

14. TBA don't listen to the Clark smearing marxists and 3rd party people.

They literally stay up all night going through hundreds of pages in a google search trying to find any dirt on Clark.

[ComerPerro]

21. Hey man

Just becuase I have been googling nonstop for the past two hundered hours trying frantically to dig up dirt on Clark doesn't give you the right to judge me!!! So what if I haven't left my room, showered, shaved, or eaten anything but coffee and tic tacs? So what if my girlfriend dumped me (I think she did, she left me a voicemail, haven't called her back)? The point is, I am going to find all the dirt on this guy! Who cares that Rove has access to his records, and will find all the dirt there is? Who cares that Rove will manufacture any dirt that is necessary? I am going to find the dirt, and I am going to dish it out all over DU! And you can't stop me! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Sorry, gotta go. My burrito is done microwaving, and I might have found something interesting here at result #56,798 of the 7.4 million links google returned. I will get through all of them! Try and stop me!!

[IranianDemocrat]

26. Roflmfao.

"Eat dog." is a funny name BTW.

[ComerPerro]

30. Thanks

But I gotta get back to google.

[wtmusic]

29. That's not one of those perro burritos, is it? A perr-ito?

[sfecap]

19. Really?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=358424

Sounds like he'd work with them again. Hate to break it to you, but the "Dove General" has already had dinner with Rummy. Many times.

[TakebackAmerica]

15. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Dove and General are mutually exclusive terms."

I hope you will expand your mind.

[WillyBrandt]

23. Did you read the article?

It's lovely when DUers do Rove's work for him. Clark mentioned some pleasantries about the neo-cons. (Folks click on and read the actual article)

He gets some pleasantries out of the way, then critcizes the neo-con project. Then he says if their plans, which are underway, fail, then it would be a disaster. They did fail. It's a disaster.

Because he doesn't publicly drool poison whenever talking about the PNAC nuts, that means he's one of them? Because he criticizes the substance of their arguments instead of their persons, that means he's a general who loves war?

No one said Clark is a dove. He was anti-the Iraq war. Anti unilateral action. And anti the misuse of our armed forces.

But, no, you think since he has stars he must love war.

Hey--Dean was a doctor. Dotors make their money off sickness: surely you won't say that Dean is pro-disease will you?

He isn't; no more than Clark is pro-war.

[sfecap]

46. Yes, I did.

All of it. That's why I encouraged others to do so. There are many good things in it. And Clark's criticism of the * plan is evident. That was what I was looking for in the first place.

However, his friendship with these thugs, and his apparent willingness to work with them again is very disturbing to me, and hints that all is not what it seems with Clark.

That's just my take. Yours may differ.

But I'll bet if ANY other candidate had uttered those words they'd be crucified here, with just cause.

These people are the architects of PNAC. They are the architects of the Iraq war.

They are natural born killers.

And according to Clark, they are his "colleagues".

[He loved Big Brother]

39. Ugh.

This after I just posted a rebuttal that "since PNAC was drawn up under Clinton, Clinton must therefor equal PNAC".

PNAC was drawn up under Bush the First and the maniacs lobbied unsuccessfully under Clinton. Now I read Clark's words in that interview...is he really a military man above all else?? Yeesh...Dr. Dean, I need some valium please.

!!!!!

[liberalnurse]

17. That's funny....You posted on Sept. 14th

"Count me in if Clark runs, I'm in 110%. So this is not new....
You have been a Clark supporter for a while. Why present a false image?

[ComerPerro]

22. The plot thickens

Good catch.

[stickdog]

27. heh, heh, heh.

That is funny.

[madfloridian]

28. Ha ha! A tangled web.

Good one. Not such an agonizing decision, I guess. A Clark supporter masquerading as a Dean supporter who is becoming a Clark supporter.

What can I say?

[TakebackAmerica]

32. Don't get so cocky there.

Were on the same side after all.

IBTW, I did not masquerade be a Clarkie anymore than you masquerade to be a madfloridian. Does this mean that every day your mad?
Ha Ha, isn't sad being bad 24/7 365 day a year.

[madfloridian]

51. Yeh, but I have not been misleading in my support.

I am still in the Dean camp, have been, will be. I'm sorry, but I am really mad every day. Living in Florida does that to one. I am also a wee tad sensitive at all the various guises and disguises of supporters and non-supporters of a candidate.

I made my point, you made yours. Friends?

[TakebackAmerica]

31. Hi liberalnurse.

Good point. I supported Dean till Clark got in.
Good point.:evilgrin:

BTW, your expert research skills will be a great asset to Dems in Ohio.

[liberalnurse]

33. Here is another.....

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=35321

I don't see where you were that hooked on Dean....

[TakebackAmerica]

36. Excellent.

Another good find.
All I was doing was alerting people to a news item.

[w4rma]

52. lol! I love DU.

:)

[liberalnurse]

37. Oh, my whats the date on this????

September 8th.....yea, that right.....

[TakebackAmerica]

43. Smile

Nice try.

[dfong63]

50. picky, picky!!!

that was a long time ago... maybe, like Clark's memory of having voted for Reagan, ... no one has a perfect memory, right?

[burr]

20. So wait a sec...

He always voted against Reagan, he opposes using scarce federal money for vouchers, and he backs Dean's approach to healthcare...

Is this really the truth???

[stickdog]

25. Whoa there, what is Clark's vision for what America should be

like in 100 years?

Just the thought of that is freaking me out ...

[TakebackAmerica]

34. Hmm.

If your freaked about about this tah your on hard nut to crack.

Direct quote on the environment.
"Environmentally, it means that we must do more to protect our natural resources, enabling us to extend their economic value indefinitely through wise natural resource extraction policies that protect the beauty and diversity of our American ecosystems - our seacoasts, mountains, wetlands, rain forests, alpine meadows, original timberlands and open prairies."

Full vision is below
http://www.americansforclark.com/vision.php

[carpetbagger]

35. Clark's 100 year vision

http://www.americansforclark.com/vision.php

"Looking ahead 100 years, the United States will be defined by our environment, both our physical environment and our legal, Constitutional environment. America needs to remain the most desirable country in the world, attracting talent and investment with the best physical and institutional environment in the world. But achieving our goals in these areas means we need to begin now. Environmentally, it means that we must do more to protect our natural resources, enabling us to extend their economic value indefinitely through wise natural resource extraction policies that protect the beauty and diversity of our American ecosystems - our seacoasts, mountains, wetlands, rain forests, alpine meadows, original timberlands and open prairies...."

It goes on, but environmental protection, fidelity to constitutional freedoms, and development of human potential are the main points.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

38. Don't Let the Naysayers Get You Down!

Welcome to the Clark for President movement! You are in good company, and I commend you on your discernment!

DTH

[TakebackAmerica]

40. Thank You

I hope to Deanies will remember were all on the same team.

[Romberry]

47. You hope the Deanies will remember?

After reading the others posts from you that others lined, it looks to me like you were entirely dishonest with the starting post of this thread. What motive might there be for pretending to be something you are not? It sort of reminds me of the way Republicans call in and say "I used to be a Democrat but then that darn (insert choice of name here) came along and I realized the Republicans had been right all along."

Looks to me like Clark "supporters" need to do a litte remembering. I'd say you owe an apology.

[He loved Big Brother]

41. And I quote-

"I want the administration, I want them to be successful. If I didn't, I probably wouldn't be offering ideas like this. I certainly want them to succeed. Just like every American should."

PATRIOT Act PNAC loving Americans, Mr Clark?

[TakebackAmerica]

42. smile

WERE ALL ON THE SAME TEAM!
Phew I got that out of my system.

[He loved Big Brother]

49. We are?

I am on not on any team that wants to see this misadministration succeed in their PNAC agenda whatsoever. Care to elaborate on your interpretations of Mr. Clark's comments? I am anti-PNAC to the bone...

[DoveTurnedHawk]

53. Of Course He Hopes the Administration Is Successful

Why would any American root AGAINST the US? Even though I was anti-invasion, when we actually went in, I hoped that the Iraq invasion would be over soon (I was right), and that our action, however much I disagreed with it, would result in a peaceful occupation (obviously false) and a blossoming, glorious democracy taking root in Iraq (also false).

I always hope for the best. That said, with Shrub in power, I generally expect the worst.

DTH

[Eloriel]

44. First of all, your Dove General isn't

To wit:
Can someone (sans flambe) explain this Clark anti-war flap?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=357772&mesg_id=357772

If Clark is "anti war", why did he shill for the Administration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php

Second, Dean has talked about implementing plans for the U.S. for 25, and 100 years hence. Probably where Clark got the idea.

Finally, Clark can't offer what Dean does, I don't think: the complete revitalization of the democratic process, from the grassroots up so that The People own their government again. This is something that's happened within the Dean campaign -- it's not something Dean particularly planned, but he has certainly embraced it and is encouraging it.

Hell, I'm pretty sure Clark can't even do what Dean the minimal of what Dean is doing -- getting his money from the PEOPLE, not corporations.

I think at this point people on the left who are choosing this or that policy difference of one candidate over another are missing the big picture, and a very big picture it is. Would you rather have perfect policies, or would you rather have your country back so that YOU have more control over those policies?

I'll take my country back, thank you.

Eloriel

[Romberry]

45. To each his own.

My personal opinion is that Clark did very poorly today on the morning shows and with his announcement. The man is not an inspiring speaker yet.

When I signed up for Dean, I signed up because I was inspired. The man has "it" and I'm in for the long haul.

Clark has a lot of work to do and I wish him luck. I'll support the Democratic nominee no matter who it is. I do however think that Clark is doing nothing so much as fracturing existing support for other candidates. I don't see him inspiring new people to get out and involved with the party. But like I said, to each his own.

[WaterDog]

48. Yeah, watching Clark

he just might be what we need to beat Bush. Whoever gets nominated, Clark is very probably first in line for VP. I still prefer Dean, but Clark is becoming a close second for me.

That said, let's see how he does campaigning. He is new to it, but he's also very smart.