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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 05:50 AM
Original message
Big lie on Iraq comes full circle: A must read
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imax2268 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. interesting...
very...
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. oh, what an excellent article!
the truth hurts, BushCo. Your filthy stinking greedy lying blood-thirsty war-mongering days are numbered.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Absolutely right on!
I especially liked the bit about how the "middle" that is neither pro-nor anti-Bush is moving towards not believing Shrub and thinking that we are less safe than we were before the war.
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Also
I like how he used Nazis as an example. Pretty clever way to slide that in there don't you think:)
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disgruntella Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. Yeah, no kidding!
Gotta love any article on the Bush administration that starts out:
"Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda chief..."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 06:28 AM
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5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 06:31 AM
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6. Deleted message
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Belgrade
Is that the city where all the criminals live? Oh yeah, Milosevic and Arkan right? Talk about child rapists. I guess you'll be gone pretty soon you Serbian s***.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. What was that?
Edited on Fri Sep-19-03 07:03 AM by bluesoul
BROCocky, could you please give me a brief summary (clean version) of what that Belgrade (Serbian) poster said? I am from Slovenia, that was once part of Yugoslavia and I am wondering what comments were made here on DU that got the poster and post deleted. I hope I am not asking too much :)

Thanks, Bluesoul

P.S You can send me a private message if you believe it more suitable.
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. it was about Clinton
She/He was saying how Clinton bombed Belgrade on Easter just like Hitler did and called him a child rapist and child killer basically for "killing Serbs".
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. I don't recall:Saddam's Son-in-law telling on Saddam's WMD program
"Also, the weapons of mass destruction story was never true. It now appears that Saddam panicked in 1995 when his sons-in-law defected to Jordan and revealed the truth about his weapons development. He immediately ordered the destruction of all the evidence. The U.N. team before the war would have no more found any weapons than the Americans after the war."

That article was a side kick to the knee of the Bush administration. Greeley did not just refer to the Nazis, he based his article on Hitler's "Big Lie". He tied together many themes such as Bush's plummeting approval rating to the neoconservative cabal in the White House.

See y'all in Washington on 10/25!
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=1957
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. it make a long time for
some to admit to themselves they've been lied to by someone they 'trusted'. But once you break someone's trust it's almost impossible to gain it back. Big trouble for Bush.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. "not sure the president knows it's a lie"
I see a lot of that idea. To me, saying something with complete certainty that you don't know with complete certainty is lying. Bush is a liar by that measure at least.

But he is also a liar in the classic sense. Recall how he reacted when the Enron story broke. Bush said that Ken Lay was a supporter of Ann Richards. Case closed. He lied to save himself.

Bush is worse than a liar, however. He is derelict in his duties as (technically only of course) POTUS. Installed by the Supreme Court in the most powerful, most "human life affecting" job in the world, Bush shows every sign of not taking the truth seriously enough to be sure he is telling it. The smirk on his face almost seems to say that he even thinks his not caring about the truth is sort of funny.

I think it's over though. They keep telling Americans "You should have read the fine print. We never said blah blah blah." That sort of disreputable sales talk makes people mad. It used to get people tarred and feathered.



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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. BULLSHIT! ""not sure the president knows it's a lie""
Edited on Fri Sep-19-03 09:08 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
BUSH KNEW AND THERE IS DOCUMENTED proof of iraq invasion war plans from his 1st month in office! long before 911 and the ...war on errorism!(intended spelling)
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. "...as the Irish say..."
I do believe that Father Greeley may be using a bit of sarcasm.

Saying he's "not sure that the president knows it's a lie" may have less to do with Bush's honesty than his capacity to know ANYTHING...

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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. Great article
It will be interesting to see what the flip in the 9/11-Iraq connection does to his polling numbers. They did time the change to conflict with the hurricane so it's possible that it didn't sink in.
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Carmerian Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. I just finished reading that
before I came into DU. Nice piece. I saved it off for future reference.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
17. My email comment to Mr. Greely
Edited on Fri Sep-19-03 09:08 AM by JohnyCanuck
Dear Mr. Greely,

I read with interest your article "Big Lie on Iraq Comes Full Circle." I think in trying to determine a motive for the lie, it is likely to be more than just because, "Iraq was there."

Are you aware that some energy industry experts have been ringing alarm bells that world oil production is about to peak ) and then go into decline? (Opinions vary from production being at peak right now to peak occurring within the next 10 to 15 years). Once peak oil has occurred, we won't wake the next day and find there is no more oil, but it will mean that we will need to spend ever increasing amounts of money, effort and energy to recover ever decreasing amounts of oil. One of these energy industry experts concerned about Peak Oil and its economic consequences is Matthew Simmons an energy investment banker and member of Dick Cheney's 2001 energy task force. Here's what he had to say in a recent address to the Association for the Study of Peak Oil (ASPO) meeting at the French Petroleum Institute May 2003.

>>...Most serious scientists worry that the world will peak in oil supply. But most assume that this day of reckoning is still years away. Many also assume that non-conventional oil will carry us through several additional decades. They were right to ring the alarm bell. But they too might also be too optimistic. Non-conventional oil unfortunately is too non-conventional. Light oil is easy to produce and convert into usable energy. Heavy oil is hard to produce and extremely energy intensive and very hard to grow rapidly. It turns out the United States of America has nine fields left that still produce over 100,000 barrels a day. And three of the nine have turned out to be located in California and on average are 103 years old. The reason these fields are still there is that they're very heavy oil. And heavy oil can last forever but it's very hard to get out of the ground. And it takes a remarkable amount of energy to convert heavy oil into usable energy.

Five years ago I barely had thought about the question of, "What does peaking mean and when might it occur?" I was intending at the time though to study the concept of depletion and the phenomenon that field after field was tending to peak fast and decline at rates that were unheard of before. The uh, uh, I think basically that now, that peaking of oil will never be accurately predicted until after the fact. But the event will occur, and my analysis is leaning me more by the month, the worry that peaking is at hand; not years away. If it turns out I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But if I'm right, the unforeseen consequences are devastating.<<


http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/061203_simmons.html

Another proponent of the theory that world oil production is shortly about to peak, is retired oil company executive, energy consultant and geologist Colin Campbell PhD. Here's what Dr. Campbell had to say in an Oct 2002 interview on whether or not alternative energy sources or non-conventional oil from sources such as tar sands could replace our current and projected demand for oil.

>>Campbell: Of course there is a range of alternatives from wind, sun, tide, nuclear, etc. but today they contribute only a very small percentage, and do not come close to matching the oil of the past in terms of cost or convenience. No doubt production from tar sands and heavy oils can be stepped up in the future but it is painfully slow and expensive, carrying also environmental costs. It will help ameliorate the decline but has minimal impact on peak. The simple solution is to use less. We are extremely wasteful energy users. But it involves a fundamental change of attitude and the rejection of classical economic principles, which were built on endless growth in a world of limitless resources. Those days are over, exacerbated by the soaring population, itself now set to decline partly from energy shortage.<<

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/102302_campbell.html

For a brief, non-technical synopsis of the Peak Oil theory and its consequences, I'd recommend the above interview with Colin Campbell. For further information, please see the following links:

Lecture by Dr. Colin Campbell at University of Clausthal, Germany (Real Player video)
http://www.rz.tu-clausthal.de/realvideo/event/peak-oil.ram

Lecture notes for above Campbell presentation:
http://energycrisis.org/de/lecture.html

Lecture by Julian Darley "US Natural Gas: When Crunch Becomes Crisis" presented June 17, 2003 to the enter for Strategic and International Studies, Washington DC (Requires Real Player)
http://ram.postcarbon.org/RAM/2003/06/JulianDarley.DC-CSIS.NatGasCrisis.2003-06-17.P1.ram

Discussing oil depletion, natural gas, gov't reaction and ramifications an interview with Dr, Colin Campbell
http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/INTERVIEWS/COLIN.CAMPBELL/

Why Hydrogen is No Solution - Scientific Answers to Marketing Hype, Deception and Wishful Thinking
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/081803_hydrogen_answers.html

www.postcarbon.org
www.hubbertpeak.com

Regards
xxxx
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. very informative reply....
Thanks for posting it-- bookmarked.
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