Why are Blue Collar Workers Republicans?

[pippin]

Have never understood why anyone from a working class background would be republican. Considering how everything on the republican agenda is anti-workers, pro-corporations and generally pro-class separatism I would like to find some plausible reasons as to why so many blue collar people are gung ho repukes??? :think:

[Maple]

1. Because it appeals to the

'tough, strong, 'be-a-man', self-reliant image.

[RichV]

2. Perhaps

some of them favor gun rights, low taxes, and/or are socially or economically quite conservative for whatever reason and see the GOP as the party that furthers those goals. I'm not sure how many of them really appreciate or understand the extent to which the rabidly pro-business, anti-worker segment of the GOP seeks goals contrary to their own. Particularly union members.

[Jaybird]

13. gun rights

my wife is UAW amd works with a married couple who are hunters and told her they voted for dubya.....somehow they have the idea that us democrats wanna take their guns away....just goes to show that people believe what they hear if they hear it enough (right or wrong)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

24. Patriot Act II Could Take Guns away

in certain circumstances. The Repubs talk about gun rights, but they'd take them away in a heartbeat.

[Jaybird]

31. i agree rose n/t

[Brian Sweat]

39. I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I'm proud to say it.

I also like guns. shhhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone.

[Upfront]

57. Gun Rights

Without question gun rights is the biggest reason. It could also be threads such as this which inply the blue collar worker is stupid. Some are, most are not. Kind of like the general population.

[leesa]

94. Well if they would vote for shit like Bush simply for one propaganda

issue like guns, then they are stupid.

[PAMod]

81. Definitely gun rights for my bro-in-law

When his union endorsed Harris Wofford in PA (I was working on his first campaign) I gave my bro-in-law a lawn sign and I thought he was going to have a stroke.

Position on the 2nd Amendment is the first thing he and his buds look at for any candidate to any office.

[RandomUser]

103. Well said

Many of them live in states that tend to be very socially conservative.

[KCDem]

3. religion, hon.

Remember, if you're a Christian, you MUST vote Republican. :eyes:

[Nashyra]

5. Stupidity?

I gues that just refers to Repukes who are blue collar and doesn't vote the man or woman but the "party"

[bluestateguy]

4. Culture issues

Gays, Guns, God, Patriotism (symbolic displays of patriotism, that is), "macho" foreign policy and sometimes racial resentment.

[QC]

Yep, those are the reasons.

And I would point out that when neither party is willing to talk about class issues, so-called cultural issues fill the vacuum. That's why the goopers are hoping to make the 2004 election a referendum on same-sex marriage.

[KaraokeKarlton]

30. Let them do that...and they WILL lose

The one thing that will offend middle America worse than the ideal of gay marriage is the open hatred and ugliness they will see from people who hate gays. I saw this play out right here in Vermont in 2000 when Dean had to run for re-election just 6 months after signing Civil Unions into law. It was the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life, but in the end, the majority of the state now supports Civil Unions and respect gay rights. In the beginning about 70% of Vermonters opposed Civil Unions. IF the general election turns into a battle over gay rights, not only will Bush lose, but it will lead to MASSIVE progress for gay rights in this country.

[QC]

34. I agree that it's a dumb issue to base a campaign on,

but all signs point to it.

And, as I said before, I think it's very important to keep in mind that when "kitchen table issues" are taken out of the debate, such as when both parties are pushing for so-called "free trade" (i.e. job exportation), cultural issues naturally dominate.

That's why we get campaigns based on flag-burning, same-sex marriage, "family values," etc.

The Democrats need to stop letting the Republicans frame the debate.

[jackcgt]

48. Wrong. Vermont is NOT the same as middle America. n/t

.

[salin]

72. but in my part of middle america

the people for whom this would be the deal breaker on the vote for pres - would never vote for a democratic candidate under any circumstance.

I have also witnessed those who harbor some prejudices (more race than anything else) be tremendously effected by witnessing very ugly and public racism. It seems to move some over towards much greater tolerance. One small town in SOuthern Indiana was so offended by an anti-gay church group that travels from town to town screaming at people (sort of like Phelps but with little attention beyond the communities they assualt), got SO upset that they tried to enact anti protesting ordinances that rather crossed the line of free speech (and the Indiana chapter of the ACLU has gotten involved, on behalf of the rabid church members). This was a very conservative small town. That became distressed by the ugliness of the protestors. And this is middle america, so the premise of the earlier post, may not be all wet.

[RandomUser]

109. You're forgetting tactics

In order for revulsion to turn the tide of the campaign, the candidate need to be successfully tied to it. I suspect Bush (or rather Karl Rove) is smarter than that. He'll have the Limbaughs and O'Reilly's stir up the ugly mess. Then Bush will be above the fray, with a tolerant and kindly expression, saying he's not against gays but he believes in the sanctity of marriage. He'll say he believes the right-wing fanatics are wrong to speak of anger, but he understands how someone can be excited by such an issue that touches on the god-given sanctity of marriage. So he'll appear to be tolerant and kindly and gently chastising the fanatics (thus not alienating the middle), while standing firm on his ground of "protecting marriage". He'll have the fanatics do the dirty work for him, and he'll appear to chastise them. Triangulation -- positioning himself as the tolerant, compassionate, but resolute middle between the ugly right and the "liberal, gay-loving, marriage destroying" democrats.

He'll say gays are god's children and we should be tolerant of them and use compassion and kindness to get them to repent, but that he doesn't believe they have the right to destroy the sanctity of marriage. Tactics will win the day for him.

[InkAddict]

43. I agree

and there's also a hubristic defense mechanism at work. Those that created that single cog see their cogs as part of the Republican machinery that "worked" for the big business of work. Idleness, in the form of time taken away from business for "soft" arts, to question the authority of time, disrupt the flow of time by diverting to it toward the real "idle" that don't work, won't work, can't work, is the devil's tool...(back to that fundamentalism and Bible literal black/white thinking that can be extrapolated to diversity discrimination in whatever category. Regardless of the facts, they believe that this "purity of purpose" got them through the bad times, never mind the reason there were bad times). Heck, this is America where one can be anything with hard work. The white collars know more about fixing what's causing the line to crash, and we're glad we got the best part of that deal, just make the cogs, make the cogs, make the cogs. Punch in, clock out, make the cogs, make the cogs...there is nothing "outside the box" into which the cogs are packed or wouldn't be if people, just like us, would work instead of just talk and sit around thinking how to spread the good time around. That's idleness, a scheduled SHUT-DOWN, and leads to, oh no, BAD TIMES (back to fundamentalism again)! Quite a protective circle and so easy to lead!

With so much physicalness in their jobs, they see Dems as disruptors of the timed status quo. They come to a single-mindedness about EVERYTHING, relating it all to their achievements in creating that "tally of bricks." With great pride, our family motto was: Bill (retired inside long-distance call router troubleshooter)can fix it, but Andrew (plant floor supervisor) can make it!

Many of these "industrial revolution" types actually are highly skilled and knowledgeable about their "soft" avocational endeavors, but don't let it get around.

[catzies]

89. And that's why they stay conservative, too

Where else are they gonna go, the people who think like that. :shrug:

[cally]

6. Just to keep the converstation rolling

I think it's because they want to see themselves as part of the upper class. I mostly see it as racism, sexism, and class warfare. It's much more fun to align yourselves with white male rich power elites than to accept that you have more in common with the rest of the working class. :evilgrin:

I'm as curious as you, I would love input and ideas to my thesis.

[QC]

10. Pick up a copy of C. Vann Woodward's book

The Strange career of Jim Crow. It details how the post-Civil War Southern elite promoted racial solidarity between rich and poor whites in order to prevent poor whites and blacks from making common cause against them.

That's still going on, and not only in the South, so the book is very relevant even if you're not much interested in 19th century history.

[frank frankly]

99. you got it right, cally

it's all about the color of their skin

but I think bushco has ripped off too much $$$, so we will see how long those making under $250,000 still love him.

[Octafish]

7. Racism, IMO.

The kkkonservatives have many, too many blue collar workers believing that a "minority" will take their place on the job if Democrats have their way with Affirmative Action. These kkk members have taken over the GOP and consolidated their base of hate. Fueled by Flush Lie and now Faux Nut Noisework and the rest of cable, they have labeled the Democrats as the party of "the special interests" — their code for "minority." The truth is unspoken on the air — the Democratic Party works for ALL Americans.

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. Married to a Blue Collar Liberal minded man. Can't really call him

Democrat, but he is definately not a Republican. And there are a lot of us out here. To me it's just another media generated stereotype. We have to stop falling for them and think for ourselves.

[JVS]

9. Do you have any evidence that they are?

The Republicans might like to claim them to seem like they are in touch with the common man, but my hometown Pittsburgh is Democratic and Blue collar. I could see Republicanism among independent contractors since they tend to view things from the perspective of a business owner rather than that of a blue collar worker which, to an outsider, they resemble. Otherwise I have some doubts about the premise that they are Republicans.

[roughsatori]

11. There tends to be a classism on the Liberal Democrat Side

That puts some off. I come from a very poor working class family. I am in a different class then the one I was raised. I remember my fury when people here would post about "trailer-trash freepers," since I grew up in a trailer park raised by Democrats. Even now, people sometimes post things titled: "Look at the Freeper," and when you click on it there is a picture of a fat white person with no teeth--imagine the outrage if the post said: "Picture of Welfare Recipient" and there was a picture of a fat black person with no teeth.

I got out of that hideous rat-hole and was able to buy my parents a condo and move them out of the trailer park about a year ago. Many who live that way are not so lucky. They try and work hard but can not escape, it is a life that most of my Friends today could not even imagine. My father use to pull out my brother and sister's teeth because we could not afford a dentist. We use to drain our septic tank right beside our trailer because we could not afford to empty it. My father was a WW2 Veteran.

I have a multi-multi-multi-millionaire brother who told me he may start voting Republican. When I flipped on him he said," The Democrats like to string along the class of people we come from, but they hate us too."

My upper-middle class sister works with all liberal Democrats.she told me she hates them because of how they are always mocking poor-white trash.

Just some quick thoughts.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

16. Rich White Republicans Mock Poor White Trash Too

It goes both ways. Class prejudice is the last acceptable bigotry, and it drives me crazy too. I come from a blue-collar family too and living in Cambridge, I definitely saw the limousine-liberal attitudes at Harvard and MIT. My experience in Mass. though is that most liberals aren't this way.

The difference is rich Repukes would never interact with the lower classes, unless they're waiting on them at the country club.

[roughsatori]

21. Yes I know they do too, but it would be too easy to blame the Republicans

when I am on a Democratic forum where I have seen the classism that I thought might answer the original poster's question in part. I have made it a mission to reply to all poster who use the terms, "white-trash," and "trailer-trash." It is not appropriate to use such classist language on a progressive board.

[spinbaby]

52. I regard "white trash" as an attitude

I think that where some of the confusion comes in is that some people seem to think "white trash" means poor and some think it's it's an attitude. I tend to think it's a mind set that has little to do with income. White trash are people who don't pick up after themselves, shop at Wal-Mart, buy those four wheeler things, don't own books, watch fox news on big-screen TVs, etc. I know poor people who are definitely NOT white trash and wealthy people who ARE white trash.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. "shop at Wal-Mart"

ROTFLMFAO

[spooky3]

53. Class-ism AND religion-ism are both

acceptable bigotries still. An openly atheist or agnostic person could never get elected to the presidency.

[QC]

20. True. Look at how we generally discuss blue-collar people at DU--

as though they are some strange, distant, and vaguely threatening subculture. Like in this thread, for example.

The interesting thing is that the pre-60s Left in America was mostly made up of blue-collar workers. Even the intellectual elite of the Left at least professed to have great sympathy for the working class--consider writers like John Steinbeck and Erskine Caldwell. In 1930, Leftists would not have been sitting around discussing the working class as though they were a South Pacific cargo cult, the way we are right now.

With the coming of the 60s "New Left," the American Left became a bourgeois institution, and consequently middle-class attitudes and prejudices came to dominate it. That's why so many nice liberals can dismiss millions as rednecks and trailer trash and see no contradiction in it. I can assure you, though, that blue-collar types do see the contradiction between liberal ideals and liberal attitudes toward people like them.

[roughsatori]

26. discussing the working class as though they were a South Pacific cargocult

Apropos and funny! It echoed my own thoughts and caused me to burst out laughing. Thanks

[QC]

69. Thanks--I'm glad you liked it!

[mitchum]

75. Q, that is historically accurate, well said, and absolutely true

[QC]

77. Thanks!

[jiacinto]

41. I agree with you

I see statements that deride people as "sheep" on this board. So I fully understand what you are saying.

[Occulus]

65. Um, as I understand it,

the term 'sheep' is specific to that huge number of people who just believe what they hear, see, and read because they're too whistle-ass lazy to do a bit of digging for themselves.

'Whistle-ass lazy'. I like that term. It's..... appropriate somehow.

[RowWellandLive]

12. I have to ask

What exactly do you mean by anti-worker? Anti-union is not the same since the vast majority are not in unions. Being against a higher minimum wage would be one example but what really is the difference between 5 something and 6 something an hour? Both are unliveable wages. Most blue collar folks don't feel too affected by that as they make more.

Lots of people just want less taxes. The recent overtime/comp time battle doesn't affect most people I know. We don't get either when you're on salary. Both parties are for free trade. For the most part in the situation I'm in I don't find either party doing much for the average worker. One exception would be the Family Medical Leave Act which was good. I wish we would get behind mandatory more vacation time and do something about how companies abuse workers with forced unpaid overtime but neither party addresses these issues.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

47. But alot of that could get legislated through your state

Californians have greater protections than many states on labor issues and HAVE HAD SO for a while. In response to your post down below about programming..while I don't think I would use that language...the repeated memes on TV DO work their way into people's reality and then preclude them from actually considering which party does more towards their interests.

[RowWellandLive]

49. What greater protections do CA workers have?

and please be specific. I am almost positive these worker protections do not cover the average non-union worker such as myself.

My point is that neither party and no major candidate addresses the needs of the average middle class struggling worker. To most, both parties are irrelevant. The only thing appealing and concrete is tax cuts. It is the only proposal that directly affects most. The reality is that the Dems refuse to be bold and propose laws that really have an impact upon working people, like mandatory 3 week vacations and a true crack down on non-paid overtime. Everyone I know is forced to work 45-60 hours a week for 40 hours pay. Refusal means you lose your job. Overtime pay or comp pay, sounds like a luxary in fantasy land. Who gets either?

The Dems seem as out of touch as the Pukes in the everyday life of the real worker. If you're not a teacher or a member of a major union forget it. You don't count. NO ONE addresses the needs of the average Joe. The default position is tax cuts which equals more take home pay. However little it is, it's better then nothing. I understand that. Stop calling these people ill-informed and programmed and start addressing their needs. Until that time the tax cutting Republicans will win. It's no wonder.

Edited for really poor spelling!!!

[bread_and_roses]

82. I agree

The Democrats stopped fighting for real change for "blue-collar" (for lack of a better term) working people, and have not fought hard for any of the things that would really make a difference in their lives, like Universal Health Insurance, protecting rights to organize, unpaid overtime, higher mimimum wages, after school care, universal full-day Kindergarden, college aid, protecting pensions. I could go on and on. I realize SOME individual Dems have been active on these issues, but the party as a whole abandoned them. And as several other posters have pointed out, that leaves a vacuum that the Rs fill with tax cuts and fear issues. And those small tax cuts make a difference. I believe if the Dems were bolder on the economic issues that affect this group, many would vote their pocketbook. And although I believe that people can speak to working class issues even if they have no experience of them, I will clarify that my own family is working class, currently including people working in construction, retail, telemarketing. This is why I gape at the casual attitude so many here have about raising the retirement age: how many 60 year olds do you see with the stamina and strength to work on a garbage truck or a road crew?

[Occulus]

66. Just

revoke corporate personhood. Oh, wouldn't that be fun?

Ya know... that issue is raising its ugly head to me again and again and again lately.......

[jiacinto]

14. Some theories

They are conservative on cultural issues like guns. I also think a lot of it has to do with the perception that Democrats offer them little except higher taxes.

[roughsatori]

18. You may be right about the guns

I come from a poor working class family. My entire family is pro-gun rights (except some of the women). I was given a rifle and taught how to shoot at a very young age. I think that some of the anti-second amendmenters would shoot my father if I said the age. (My parents and their parents were Democrats.)

[jiacinto]

25. Ok

Also a lot of things have to deal with their view that the Democrats offer them little but higher taxes.

[roughsatori]

32. The kind of poor folk I come from NEVER talked about taxes

Most of them were too poor for it to matter. It is Republican nonsense that the poor want a tax break. The poor know they don't make enough to get one.

In all my years of growing up the Republican tax silliness was treated as a joke.

[RowWellandLive]

51. Not only are you right about guns Carlos,

more importantly the Dems don't offer much else to the average worker then higher taxes then the Republicans. It's not merely a perception, just realtiy. We need to think and propose bold or we deserve to lose.

I know you get lots of abuse here, but I for one appreciate your pragmatic and realistic views on all matters. Especially Israel. Thanks for bring a breath of fresh air and a realistic voice of the obvious thruth.

If not for people like you here, I would desoair greatly for my party and either withdraw or switch. Thanks so much Carlos!!!

[jiacinto]

79. You're welcome

Also remember that DU isn't the Democratic Party.

[Occulus]

67. Cultural conservatism,

from a Constitutional POV, means allowing multiculturalism. I wonder why so-called 'conservatives' don't understand this?

[RandomUser]

104. For many of them

cultural conservatism means anti-gay rights and abstinence before marriage...basically conservative social values. So while they may like the fact that democrats are suppose to fight for the working class, they don't like the liberal social mores that come with "liberals," at least as far as they understand the term. That's why many democrats have a hard time running in the south. It's not because the south is richer and thus automatically going to side with the republicans, it's because they're very conservative in their social values.

[WillyBrandt]

15. Not right

That's not as true as you'd think. My father is a blue collar worker, and is as liberal as you can get.

What about working class blacks? They are very heavily Democratic, and very often on the liberal side of the spectrum. Likewise with Hispanics.

How about working class people in the center of cities? Very often Democrats.

Working class women? Democrats disproportionately.

Unionized blue collar workers? Dems.

The Republicans have confused "blue collar worker" with "rural white male." The latter really is pro-Republican. But don't let the GOP mix up the terms.

[quaker bill]

17. There is an explanation out there

A recent psychological study of conservatism provides some substantial insight.

It is mostly fear of change or the unknown. This is results in the drive toward simple answers and black and white based thought patterns and moral structures. Republicans have made great hay of this.

The fundamentalist churches provide this sort of structure to life. Thus it is no coincidence that adherents to these churches vote republican. Republicans paint all things up as either "good or bad". They say "we have the good values" "they are immoral and corrupt"... I call this a form of arrested spiritual / psychological development. These churches and the repubs work hard at maintaining folks in this state.

Interestingly, as one who has studied the actual christian message fairly deeply, Christ was well to the left of even most folks who come to this site. He was a radical who proposed social reform to the extent that they killed him over it, in public, to make the strongest example.

"From each according to his measure to each according his needs"

A halmark of the early christian church was each member sharing his wealth equally among the members. A rather socialist / communist notion.. Modern fundie churches do touch this stuff, even though you have to be fairly selective to avoid it.

[RandomUser]

112. I've seen that study

and I think it's bull. If you examine what the "conservatives" want, in many cases, it's not to stop change, but rather to make radical changes. Hence the term "radical right."

With respect to the black/white based patterns, I think there may be something to that. I don't believe it's arrested social development, but rather a type of simplistic outlook on life. A preference for clean cut right/wrong choices rather than shades of gray. But this is as much an aspect of personality (like the type A and type B personality discussions in psychology) as anything else. But that's hardly arrested development. And I think we do them a disservice by saying that. Disparraging their ability to think blinds us to fundamental differences between our position and theirs, and is counterproductive. Because there are genuine differences in opinion and worldview (such as pro-choice/pro-life) that we can't and shouldn't ascribe to arrested mental development on their part. It's false, unproductive, and just stupid of us if that's how we think of our opponents.

[WillyBrandt]

19. Southern Strategy

But what brought the rural white males into the GOP flock? Many of them were formerly part of the New Deal Coalition that dominated American politics for a long time.

Well, more than anything, the 1964 Civil Rights Act. LBJ, the great and very flawed man, said that passing the act would bury the Party for a generation.

As Dixiecrats became Republicans, the GOP got a hold on a huge section of these folks. At this point, it has largely become cultural identification.

However, if you read The Emerging Democratic Majority, you'll see that ever so slowly the working class over all spectrums, including I believe rural white males, is leaning ever more Democratic as time goes on. Racism continues its long, slow death. The Democratic Party is finally beginning its long, slow rebirth.

[jiacinto]

28. Well

I think that you are right to some extent. But the problem for the GOP is that the suburbs and the cities are unifying as political voice that will dominate the rural areas.

[MrPrax]

22. Deep Programming...

Theh may not be able to buy the bimbo, drive the luxury import...BUT they can buy a piece of the lifestyle for a couple of hours in front of the set with a bottle or two...

Freedom means living in a society where at least you get to see a 70k car roll by and knowing he and I are related at least at the of the ballot box, sports and taxes.

Males especially will sacrifice to the alpha male--it's called team and that is why 'sports' saturation is so important to class indoctrination.

Freedom means you might have went to the same school as a million ballplayer...you didn't make it, but they did...so why rain on his parade.

We are not very enlightened if that is what your thinking...

Walkbys by the suits in the factory (suits being in sport pools, giving hams at xmas) go a lot farther than most leftist think...

[KAZ]

29. Man! MrPrax nails it.

Please do not read any of my posts! You'll probably figure out that I like ABBA. :)

Good stuff.

[RowWellandLive]

46. To say people vote R because they are programmed

is not only insulting to them, but it is a sure presciption to lose their votes forever. It's condecending and unproductive. People vote for the party/person that addresses their needs, period. The Dems have a lock on minorities and special interests like specific unions, but in what way do they appeal to the average white working class non-union voter? It seems they've stopped trying. They want their guns and low taxes. They want their children to attend good schools. They mostly have decent health care coverage, not great, but single payer will probably make it worse. They do not want illegals to have drivers licenses and therefore be able to vote.

The Dem party is not addressing what average people who do not belong to a specific vote rich group care about. If we don't care about them, they will not vote for us. They are not programmed, just more aware then you give them credit for.

[ComerPerro]

70. I really don't think that is it

You say that people vote for the party that serves their intersts. Well, you must realize that the Republicans don't serve ayones interests unless they make over $300,000 a year.
So you are partly on the mark, because the Republicans are doing something to make these people belive that they are looking out for their intersts. But to say that the Dems don't care about these people is bullshit.
We do, however, need to make a strong effort to show these people that we are looking out for them.

"They are not programmed, just more aware then you give them credit for."

If thats true, if they really were "aware", then they would not vote Republican.

[QC]

71. Not all interests are economic.

It's easy to assume that economic interests are the only ones that motivate people's voting, but there are cultural interests, too, and for some people they might even count more than money.

And, of course, when people perceive that neither party really cares much about their finances anyway, then those cultural issues become the only ones. I mean, if you believe that neither party will help you materially but one at least claims to respect your values, which one will you go with?

[ComerPerro]

86. Good point, but

These people are still not very well informed if they think that republicans represent their values.

[QC]

92. I quite agree.

The Republicans give lip service to their values, but their main interest is the same as it always was--funneling as much money as possible to the very top.

[RandomUser]

105. Wrong

Many of these blue-collar workers have socially conservative values. They don't like feminism, gay rights, or abortion. So while we dems may be in their best interest economically, they see us liberals as being against their social values. And we are.

Like when that idiot republican Santorum blasted gays, guess what? His popularity in the state rose, especially amongst republicans. They didn't like him because he was helping them economically, but because they saw him as supporting their social values. We dems may be in their economic interest, but they see republicans as being in their "cultural" interest of upholding conservative social values.

Why do you think the southern democrats vote with republicans so often? Because they're socially conservative.

[KAZ]

23. It's easier.

I understand what you getting at, but it's not just "blue collar". Jingoism, flag waving, and AM inspired rah-rahing, is just so much easier than thinking about the serious issues. Who wants to dissect the failures of our country. Who wants to sit down over a couple of beers and talk about how we can overcome poverty, teenage pregnancy, and health care, etc. "Morning in America" makes them feel better about themselves. If all you do is talk about our problems, they will tune you out, like a bad radio station. Raygun made them feel good about themselves. I think we can make them feel good about themselves by focusing on what made us great. Good schools, good unions, good government. They have nothing, plus the grace of God, except that which came from this.

Man, I write like crap. Frikin wine. :)

[KaraokeKarlton]

27. Guns

If the Democrats didn't have a reputation for being bad on gun rights, you'd be hard pressed to find many blue collar workers supporting Republicans, with the exception of bible thumping blue collar workers.

[BiggJawn]

33. Cargo Cult and Guns...

The way I understood it, if you vote ReTHUGlican, even though you don't have a pot to piss in, some day, when the scourge of Liberalism has been wiped from the planet and you get to keep all of "your" money, instead of "having it ripped from you at gunpoint and given to lazy Welfare Queens", then you too will be wealthy beyond your dreams. Rush said that (all praise the Word of RUSH!)

That and Al Gore was gonna have Janet Reno flash you until you gave up your guns.

I think guns was the bigger part of it. I actually SHOCK some ReTHUGs when they find out I'm a Liberal and once could qualify "Expert".

[Cat Atomic]

35. Why not just ask one?

Am I the only blue collar person here?

I have a Republican cousin who drives a truck for a living. He's well informed and well read. He's not a gun nut, he's not a macho idiot, he's not a racist, and he's not religious.

He likes conservative fiscal policies. Well... I should say that he likes what they SAY about their fiscal policies. I've done my best to show him the error of his ways, but he's not having any.

[QC]

36. There's a few of us here, but not many.

Go take a look at the what's your income poll and you'll see why so many people here think blue-collar people are something strange and distant.

[Cat Atomic]

37. Wow. Interesting chart.

Congratulations to those doing well in this shitty economy. It's certainly not the best business environment I've ever seen.

[BiggJawn]

54. Ain't that the truth....Class Warfare starts at home....

I saw that poll. Talk about depressing. Now I know why the flaps on "The Big Tent" beat me half-silly and I get wet when it storms...

Yeah, I have a Degree, I work in a "technical trade", but my paycheque screams "BLUE-COLLAR!!!"

[Another Bill C.]

38. The workers went Republican because

(in no particular order):

A. Clinton's NAFTA

B. Guns

C. A large increase in college graduates who tend to see themselves as professionals even when they're chopping lettuce in the restaurant kitchen.

D. Pro-life Catholics and Hispanics (who tended to be working-class) were heckled out of local caucus meetings. George Bush won a huge Mexican-American constituency on this one issue alone. (The Democrats drew a lot Republican pro-choicers but they tended to be yuppie types with some disdain for the people with dirty fingernails.)

E. When their companies discontinued pension plans and went to 401ks, they became "big investors" and started identifying with the big guys.

F. Heterosexualism

G. Miscellaneous

[InkAddict]

44. Backfired upon!

To reply to:
"(The Democrats drew a lot Republican pro-choicers but they tended to be yuppie types with some disdain for the people with dirty fingernails.)"


I think my childhood home was probably Republican leaning, though voting and politics were not openly discussed at our dinner/supper (I'll explain later)table; then again, neither was sex or family finances.

This pro-choice person was labeled as a "yuppie" simply because spouse worked and I worked too, outside the home, and called the late meal, "dinner", obviously a slip into leisurely urban arrogance, mea culpa. I finally just got worn out dealing with the small, closed minded, secretive value system of the fundamentalist mentality and gravitated toward support of the Democratic platforms.

But, it's ironic that the joke seems to be on us - IT and Allied Health persons (both substantially underemployed,out of our fields, at present, thank you. And I think we worked doubly hard, since Mom never was employed outside the home or drove a car - The gaul of these regressive Republicans to label us as ungrateful yuppies that require being shocked and awed into an unecessary foreign war and domestic instability because it was expedient and profitable for some Republicans. Well, I've had enough and I'm coming out shooting (mostly "off my mouth" about the misplaced mindset of the Republican thugs in the WH and their single-minded, fundie, staged manipulations of the American citizenry.

Sorry, if I seem a bit defensive, but I remember turning and laughing the very last time the bathbrush busted in half on my ass for no good reason! I just hope we can come together for a team that will whomp Bu$h or whomever soundly next year.

[UTUSN]

60. No, Yes, No

A. They were gone LONG before "Clinton's NAFTA". They went with RAYGUN over their perception of CARTER's weakness and the humiliation of the hostage taking and the lines at the gas pumps. They wanted "TOUGHNESS" (brute force, DOMINANCE, PRIDE).

C. If this means their being ANTI-P.C.ism, yep. Plus anti-Limo-Lib-ism.

D. Not true. HARD CORE Catholics of all stripes vote as single-issue Repukes, while swallowing the scores of social justice policies they share with Dems. But most LAPSED Catholic types, like most Hispanics, are not single-issue and stay Dems. "Huge" numbers of Hispanics did not vote for Shrub because of anti-choice. I forget the numbers but it was 24%(?) OF THOSE WHO VOTED. The HUGE numbers of Hispanics DON'T VOTE and would vote DEM if SOMEBODY would understand how to unleash their voting power, the way RFK did through Cesar CHAVEZ. Whatever Hispanics Shrub got came from his TEXAS understanding of the White Boss of the laboring underclass, PLUS the small business Hispanics who REALLY ARE Repukes for their wanting cuts in taxes, minimized regulations, and maximized profits.

[Yupster]

40. Look at exit polls

They tell some interesting things.

Regardless of income, there are some issues that cleave the two parties sharply.

If you go to church every week, or even more, if you go to church more than once a week, you vote very heavily Republican. If you never go to church, you vote very heavily Democratic.

If you have a gun in the house, you vote heavily Republican. If you don't have a gun in the house, you vote heavily Democratic.

[InkAddict]

45. Yep, Godless and Gunless

Peace and Quiet!

[mitchum]

42. The Politics of Exclusion...they're republican because of what the...

republican party is presumably against, not what it's for

[einsteins stein]

50. Because Blue collar workers are nationalistic, by default

and the only party that offers any variety of nationalism is the Repuke party.

I started a thread on this before, and I didn't hear much support, but I believe that nationalism should be swiped by the Dems, redefined on progressive terms, and given back to the voters as a reason to support the Dem party.

If we do not, we will never recapture the blue collar vote, and the neocon fascists will have an excellent tool for eroding our values, liberties, and way of life.

We MUST steal nationalism, re-design nationalism, before it becomes a club with which to beat Democratic heads

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. Cool

It's ok to love your country and respect other countries...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

58. All Republicans have one thing in common:

Fear.

Fear of anything, or anyone, that is different. It is the party of homogeneity for that reason. All other issues are moot and disregarded.

[arendt]

59. Nobody has mentioned "The Mass Psychology of Fascism"...

by Wilhelm Reich

This book explains the working class psychology of Germans
in the 1920s-30s, and it sounds just like today's Americans -
very macho (virgin or whore) guys, subservient women and
children, thrown out of their middle-class life by economic
disaster, and looking for someone to blame (rich, liberal Jews).
Explains how they projected all their frustrations and phobias
outward and demonized the Jews. Sound familiar, liberals?

Also, the most marginal "Aryans" were the most outspoken
Nazis. They had to prove their purity by their bigotry. Today,
the most outspoken fundies are usually the ones with some
horrible moral lapses (affairs, homosexuality - for them a sin,
child molestation, gambling addiction).

The problem with Reich is that just before he died, he had a
UFO contactee experience and went totally off the deep end.
(Now, UFO contactee stuff is a whole 'nother post.) Plus, the
book's take on sex was so radical (puritanical sex enslaves,
open sexuality is good) that it was too hot for the 1930s, and
is becoming too hot again as we march backwards into the
medieval mindset of fundamentalism in America.

Anyway, thanks to all for a great discussion without any flame-
fests. Sorry to come to this so late, I think the thread has already
covered what I am referencing with Reich (psychology, religion),
but nobody mentioned this book, which is still considered the
best report on the mindset of the average Nazi.

arendt

on edit - restored phrase in brackets removed by posting

[BlueCollar]

61. God, Guns and Gays

Republicans have taken the message to the floor that Democrats are Godless, they want to take your guns and favor "special" deals for Gays...

They also work the deal well to insinuate that all minorities are either illegal or on welfare...

I walk the hangar floor daily and hear nothing but right-wing talk radio spewing forth...

No way to get through to them until they start being laid off although I'm noticing a resentment building now amongst the veterans. I tell them things like the 1.8 billion being cut out of the VA while Cheney/Halliburton/B&R rake in billions...

Not many Bush/Cheney bumperstickers on toolboxes, lunchboxes and cars these days...

I'm working hard on it but it seems so hopeless sometimes.

We can't stop though, because that is exactly what the Republicans want...to reduce Democratic party turnout

[doc03]

74. ALSO NAFTA AND WTO

AL GORE WOULD BE PRESIDENT TODAY IF HE WOULD HAVE CARRIED WEST VIRGINIA. BILL CLINTON GAVE US NAFTA AFTER PROMISSING TO
STOP THE UNFAIR STEEL DUMPING.

[gdwill]

62. Because corporation are pro-workers...

...where else would they work?

And by the way, I don't think that Republicans are nearly pro-corporations enough.

[uptohere]

63. premise is flawed but the answer is...

... that for the non-union blue collar guys the dems have not done much for them. Name something that benefitted them if you can. I can't.

With nothing else to show, the left goes into a number of social issues that they don't care about (not racism typically, more like apathy) that gets paid for out of their pockets. Again no benefit.

Among the union folks who have watched Penn. steel jobs go to Japan and Detriot area jobs go to Canada and Mexico etc etc etc, some will question just how much help they've gotten. Nice contracts are nice but not if you've been laid off.

Either we're not doing a very good sales job or we've failed them. Take your pick but we had better not ignore this.

[dusty64]

64. Ignorance and 24/7

rethug media propaganda.

[CWebster]

68. Because they sense their own powerlessness

they identify vicariously with the bravado and bully of the Right.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. Two factors came together

Both the Democratic and Republican parties changed. The old New Deal coalition was founded on economic justice and equal opportunity. Many retired blue collar workers who remember the Depression are staunch Democrats.

But in the 1960s and after, the Dems lost the more racist blue collars types with their advocacy of civil rights. In addition, the riots at the Chicago convention and the social upheavals of the late 1960s and early 1970s allowed Nixon to campaign on a platform of "law and order." (A mayor of Minneapolis at that time spoke often of "discipline and religion.") Humphrey probably lost because the anti-war activists wouldn't vote for him, but McGovern was tarred as the "hippie candidate," and the Repiggies were successful in linking him with the counterculture that had the socially conservative working class so upset.

Reagan got in because of the Iran hostage crisis and because the Federal Reserve raised interest rates to unbearable levels at a time when the effects of the oil crises were still being felt in high inflation. Reagan ran on "the misery index," interest rates times the rate of inflation. Of course, neither the high oil prices nor the high interest rates were Carter's fault.

Once in office, Reagan did his Repiggie thing, but too few Dems mounted any effective opposition when he began the anti-union crusade by firing the air traffic controllers or when thousands of farmers lost farms that had been in their families for generations. Too many of them believed the Republican hype about Reagan as "the most popular president since World War II" (not true) and just caved in as the Repiggies began their version of class warfare.

From what we heard in the media, all the Dems were concerned with was abortion and affirmative action.

The Republicanites were mean and clever, and the Dems, with few exceptions, shot themselves in the foot by abandoning their commitment to economic issues and at the same time adopting social positions that were offensive to many blue collar and rural workers.

The Republicans discovered the fundamentalists and began catering to them. I suppose that many blue collar workers looked at the two parties and thought, "The Dems are for immorality and lower standards and special favors for minorities and they hate America, and they've done nothing for me. The Republicans are rich bastards, but at least they respect my beliefs."

That's my take on it.

[laura888]

78. I think you're dead on

well put.

[Tesha]

76. I think you're seeing a sub-set

of blue color folks who MAY fall into any or all of these types:

-have no confidence in themselves as individuals
-don't go out in search of their own answers
-when fed fear, cower behind the biggest and most powerful
-listen to their religious leaders without question
-have never made a decision on their own
-have a lower IQ
-have one position that they follow to the exclusion of all else
-have been trained to follow or belong or blend in
-etc. etc. etc.

No matter how you say it, the republicans have a ready pool of people to manipulate and use and count on for every election.

[The Lone Liberal]

80. Because the elite intellectual wing of the Democratic Party wrote them off

Back in the 60s it became fashionable to beatup on the blue collar, i.e. Archie Bunker. That has carried forward to this day. Until we stop the bullshit of out-of-hand demeaning of the blue collar because of their life style and understand that most of them did not have the opportunities that a lot of us have had, then they are going to continue to go with those who at least pretend to respect them.

[Iris]

83. Greed - same as any other Republican

[ikojo]

84. I am working-class and have NEVER, EVER identified with the

pugs. I have ALWAYS had a strong class consciousness bore out of experiencing life in the US.

For an analysis of why the Democrats may have a difficult time communicating their message to working-class people read this article in the American Prospect...

I agree with the article when it says that working-class Americans tend to support the war effort because PEOPLE THEY PERSONALLY KNOW are fighting it. Not many Ivy leaguers or other well situated folks are on the ground in Iraq that's for sure. I think we REALLY need to address the class divide regarding WHICH class makes the sacrifices both physically (by dying) and psychologically (the effects of having fought a war).

http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/8/levison-a.html

Class and Warfare
Democrats and the rhetoric of patriotism

By Andrew Levison
Issue Date: 9.1.03

[QC]

95. Excellent article--everyone should read this one.

It's relevant not only to this thread but also to the countless "support the troops" discussions.

[kath]

85. RACISM is a major part of it, IMHO

[DemVet]

91. How so?

Please explain.

[the_sam]

87. They Don't

Actually, I suppose it depends on what you consider "blue collar". But most union workers vote Democratic -- especially female and minority union workers. Half of white male union workers vote Republican.

What keeps many working class people from voting for progressive candidates is ideology. I use the term "ideology" in the Marxist sense -- that is, a false consciousness like racism, religious fundamentalism, nationalism, or sexism, which keeps workers from acting politically in their class interest.

White supremacy is very much a cornerstone of white working class ideology, and has been throughout history (see J. Sakai's "The Mythology of the White Proletariat"). Christian fundamentalists make up anywhere from a quarter to a third of the country. Working class men feel threatened by the gains women have made. And of course, nationalism is more a factor at this time than it has been at any time since the Cold War, maybe since World War II.

The question to ask is: why are workers susceptible to ideology? Because the bourgeoisie have effectively captured the means by which culture is transmitted. By controlling the media, the schools, the arts, etc., they have established cultural hegemony.

If there's any hope for truly progressive change, leftists must fight to capture the culture and establish cultural hegemony for their ideas.

[burr]

88. Same reason so many DINO's in the south switch parties...

many don't care about solutions or even about their problems. And they will not care until they lose everything they have, as it happened to nearly all Americans during the depression.

All they want now is to have somebody to blame...that damned welfare mom sitting on her rear end, those damned illegals who keep taking our jobs away, and those goddamned tax and spend liberals that take money out of paychecks while causing 9/11!

Forget cause and effect, forget the fact that liberal Democrats have mostly been out of power since 1968, and forget the fact that immigration is providing the only boost for our economy while welfare has more or less been abolished.

These people don't care about facts or their fellow man, and the only day they will vote Democratic is when their life depends on it!!!

[Southsideirish]

90. "Social" conservatives - hate changes that have occured in last 25 yrs.

My relatives who are right-wing first generation males have all done very well (not millionaires but very comfortable) yet have their panties in a knot over gays, affirmative action, abortion and feminism. For all of which they blame the Democrats.

[DragonflyX]

93. "Why are Blue Collar Workers Republicans?"

I am the son of liberal parents. My Dad is an out of work coal miner/musician/mover/contruction worker and my Mom works at Target. My folks don't even bother to vote. I am a registered Republican but am turned off by both the Democrats and Republicans for the most part. I am currently a white collar worker who has done a lot of blue collar work. I spent time in the Army so I could go to college on the GI Bill and most of the liberal kids I went to school with were upper middle class. In my experience is it the the upper middle class kids who didn't work for anything they had (cars, cloths, apartments, etc) who are the left wing democrats. The poor kids who had to work a full time job (I worked as a janitor) tend to be more conservative. When you work for what you have instead of having it handed to you on a silver platter you tend to value it more. You also tend to resent it when your hard earned money is taken away by force and givin to others who didn't earn it (taxes.)

The Democrat hand in my pocket is why I vote Republican. Other than that, most hard line Republicans disgust me as much as hard line Democrats. Both of these types will tell you they hate the other for almost the same reasons.

[fortyfeetunder]

98. Dragonfly, just need clarification here....

"You also tend to resent it when your hard earned money is taken away by force and givin to others who didn't earn it (taxes.)"

So Dragonfly, are you incensed that your taxes went to Halliburton for that sole source contract in Iraq, knowing that Cheney is financially in bed with them?

[ikojo]

110. I don't now and have never voted Republican but I totally

understand what Dragonfly is saying.

I have had to WORK for EVERYTHING I have. I have friends who are in their 40s and have NEVER worked a FULL TIME job in their lives. They cannot even begin to imagine the anxiety I feel whenever layoffs are mentioned. Their comment is "don't worry, you'll find another job." Yeah I might but generally at a lower salary. One friend brags that she has never earned more than $20k a year. Easy to live on $20k per year when you have a HUGE trust fund on which to rely. This same person will brag about all the tax breaks given to the wealthy and say that while it's unethical and immoral that they exist at the expense of the poor, they are available so it's OK to find loopholes and pay fewer taxes.

This is why I cannot fully identify with many Deadheads. Demographically Deadheads come from privileged backgrounds. As much as I really wanted to just chuck it all and follow a band it was outside my consideration because I had to keep a job and work. Since I worked (at a corporate job no less) I was looked down upon by many a trustafarian (those Deadheads with dreadlocks) as a weekend warrior. Yeah without mommy and daddy's money those tour rats would also be slaving away for the corporate dollar.

I dislike entitlement among the poor but I especially loath it among rich spoiled brat kids who do not know what it is to live without food, electricity or heat.

Easy to be a hard core leftist/hippie/deadhead when ALL of your physical needs have always been provided for. Perhaps this explains why my siblings are Republicans, even though it is against their class interests (they are all dependent upon a paycheck to survive).

[hedgetrimmer]

96. er... how do you define "blue collar worker?"

i identify my family, a strong catholic family... six brothers, one died, my fathers a recovered alchoholic, they all live in n.y. or n.j. ( one of those states <of confusion> )...

anyway... is a trucker blue collar? is a paper pusher for the city of n.y. a blue collar? is a customer service rep a blue collar? is a telephone mgt guy for alliance capital blue collar? is a cop a blue collar? is a computer technician for cantor fitzgerald blue collar? is a inter-office communications programmer a blue collar? is a coffee guy (barrista/mgt.) blue collar?

can one draw the line... is it really a "blue collar" job description or "blue collar" financial situation?

as far as i know my brothers and my parents all are democrats by description... yet they have a mentality that places them along the idealogy that democrats are wrong in the hustpa factor...

the cop, myself and my parents vote.... the rest of them just like to complain...

generally i think it is more of a social-economic-'merica background that sets the stage for general idealogy but what lump-sum were you putting a catergory of people into?

what is a "blue collar worker"?

[ikojo]

111. One of my friends, a guy with a PhD, defines working class

as someone who does not own the means of production and is dependent upon a paycheck to survive.

This allows for well paid people to be defined as working-class.

I have tended to view class based upon income. Someone who makes $100k is experiencing a completely different world than one who earns $30k that is for sure.

[Dr Fate]

97. The media convinced them that Liberal = "sissy"...

The media has also packaged their conservative values as "common sense", while Liberals are "radical" and "wild-eyed"...

Also- rather than educate folks on the tradition and importance of the "wall of seperation" between church and state- the media distorted the issue, claiming that Liberals are "taking God out of our schools"...

etc,etc...

[Myra]

100. I agree

Gun control is an issue that the Dems lose
lots of votes on. It's probably too late
for gun control in the US anyway (unfortunately),
and tons of folks vote on that one friggen issue.

[RandomUser]

106. To an extent

that's true. But only to an extent. What we need to recognize is that there are real fundamental differences that are not the result of the media. Many of these blue collar people are anti-abortion or anti-gay rights, and guess which party sides with them? The truth is that they don't side with us, not because the media is spinning "liberal" as being bad, and not because the republicans are lying and keeping them from getting the message that democrats are for working folks. They side with the republicans because they agree with republican social values, if not economic ones.

For instance, take the hispanic population. Although traditionally, dems have counted on the minority vote, many blue-collar hispanics are becoming republican. Why? Because the latin american immigrant majority of them come from a catholic background, and they believe that abortion is wrong. Guess which party sides supports their view and will work to outlaw abortion?

It's true we dems say we better represent the economic interest of the working class, but they can't stand for any liberal who would vote for abortion.

[Classical_Liberal]

101. They are more likely to be democrats actually

but less so since the Democrats are less inclined to be proworker, pro corporate, and generally apathetic to class separtism, and since the UNions have weakened.

The gun issue cuts across class, but is affected by rural vs urban America issue.

Also certain elements of the working class actually do better under republicans. Prison related unions and and Defense contractor related unions most certainly do better with Law and Order war hawks.

[imax2268]

102. im not...

[SCDem]

107. Guns and God

My husband is a union member at a manufacturing plant. He of course is a democrat. However, so many of the guys he works with who are also part of the union, in the last presidential election, voted for Bush over Gore because "Gore is going to try to take my guns away." People are being sold horse crap and being told it is politics and integrity.

And this plant is in a "right to work" state so those that are in the union don't have to be if they don't want to.

[maxanne]

108. many people don't think

beyond what they're told - and the right wing propaganda machine has told them for years about "tax and spend" liberals, who want to teach their public school kids to become homosexuals, and ride around in limosines. Those liberals want to take their guns away and the Pledge of Alliegence....you get the idea.

Certainly there are some thinking people who vote Republican, based on what they see as fiscal conservativism. There are a lot of people who just believe the propaganda. Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, and Savage spew their propaganda and people take it as gospel. I was talking to a friend last night who said she was upset because she's been listening to Savage, who apparently is yammering about GI's not being able to say the Lord's Prayer. I simply asked her if, in the big picture of things, that was really an important issue. She looked at me blankly. I said that the projections are that in the next year over a million children will be homeless. She looked horrified. I said something about how that's the stuff these people never talk about, because they want to keep us divided - and whipping people into a frenzy over issues that aren't really important, is the way they accomplish it. She was at least thinking, by the time she left.

A lot of people are working hard and not paying attention. The Republicans tell them they are the party of fiscal and sexual responsibility. How about that tax cut? The Democrats want to take your money and give it to welfare recipients and illegal aliens. Propaganda is a huge tool - and the right wing has wielded it most successfully.