Battle Hymn of the Republic at a Public High School Graduation?

[progressoid]

At a graduation last weekend at a small public school in Iowa, I heard their choir perform two songs. The first was a song about the future or dreams or some such sappy fluff. It received the typical, cordial applause.

This was followed by a "jazzed up" version of The Battle Hymn of the Republic. While the performance didn't exceed the previous song, it received a lengthy & thunderous applause. Yikes.

My first thought was "welcome to Dumbfuckistan".

How do we win back our country when it is filled with morans?


------------------------------

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He has loosed the fateful lightening of His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps
His day is marching on.

CHORUS

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnish`d rows of steel,
"As ye deal with my contemners, So with you my grace shall deal;"
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel
Since God is marching on.

CHORUS

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

CHORUS

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

CHORUS

[El Supremo]

1. I hate that damn song.

Jimmie Carter and I refuse to sing it.

[FreedomAngel82]

2. You got me too

I've never really paid attention to the lyrics. There are some patriotic songs I like such as the anthem, "God Bless America" and "God bless the USA". That's one I've recently become not fond of due to recent situations.....

[progressoid]

7. Yea for you and Jimmy

[fishwax]

8. Wasn't it performed at Jimmy Carter's inauguartion ceremony?

[GarKeeper]

26. I thought it was

n/t

[fishwax]

28. Here's a link

it mentions it in the 1st paragraph ...

Welcome to DU :hi:

[GarKeeper]

32. Thank you fishwax

n/t

[wicket]

17. Why does Jimmy refuse to sing it?

n/t

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

34. "He's from Georgia, you %#&*&!"

Thanks :eyes:

[Catherine Vincent]

36. You don't have to call names, he was only asking a question.

[wicket]

40. I think you meant to reply to the other poster

I think?

[Catherine Vincent]

50. Yeah, I did. So sorry.

You're not getting a break in this thread eh?:-):hi:

[wicket]

51. LOL!

No worries :) Thanks for sticking up for me! :hi:

[fishwax]

45. I don't think he objects to the song

I think he objected to the context. If he objected to the song, why did he have it played at his inauguration?

There's no reason to be so rude to be another poster just b/c he asked a question about your post. Sheesh

[wicket]

52. thank-you

:)

[Deep13]

63. Do you prefer Albert Pike's Dixie?

SOUTHRONS, hear your Country call you!
Up, lest worse than death befall you!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Lo! all the beacon-fires are lighted,
Let all hearts be now united! 5
To arms! To arms! To arms! in Dixie!
Advance the flag of Dixie!
Hurrah! hurrah!
For Dixie's land we 'll take our stand,
To live or die for Dixie! 10
To arms! To arms!
And conquer peace for Dixie!
To arms! To arms!
And conquer peace for Dixie!

Hear the Northern thunders mutter! 15
Northern flags in South winds flutter!
Send them back your fierce defiance!
Stamp upon the accursed alliance!

Fear no danger! Shun no labor!
Lift up rifle, pike, and sabre! 20
Shoulder pressing close to shoulder,
Let the odds make each heart bolder!

How the South's great heart rejoices
At your cannons' ringing voices!
For faith betrayed and pledges broken, 25
Wrongs inflicted, insults spoken.

Strong as lions, swift as eagles,
Back to their kennels hunt these beagles!
Cut the unequal bonds asunder!
Let them hence each other plunder! 30

Swear upon your Country's altar
Never to submit or falter,
Till the spoilers are defeated,
Till the Lord's work is completed.

Halt not till our Federation 35
Secures among earth's Powers its station!
Then at peace, and crowned with glory,
Hear your children tell the story!

If the loved ones weep in sadness,
Victory soon shall bring them gladness; 40
To arms!
Exultant pride soon banish sorrow,
Smiles chase tears away to-morrow.
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Advance the flag of Dixie! 45
Hurrah! hurrah!
For Dixie's land we take our stand,
And live or die for Dixie!
To arms! To arms!
And conquer peace for Dixie! 50
To arms! To arms!
And conquer peace for Dixie!

[LibInternationalist]

3. I'm torn

as an atheist, I don't like the god stuff, obviously...

but I do appreciate the fact that the song was sung in the past in opposition to treason and slavery

and "As he died to make men holy, let us die to make men free" is a pretty moving sentiment

[fishwax]

5. I agree with you on that last line. I've always liked the song

As a young student I studied the Civil War a lot, and that last line always gave me chills.

I'm not sure how it fits in to a high school graduation ceremony, though ... :shrug:

[progressoid]

9. These people still think Sadam has WMDs (in his underwear I guess)

If Sean Hannity had come in the gym, there would have been a mass orgasm.

[fishwax]

14. I'm not surprised

I figured that's why you objected and to me it just seems like a strange pick for a high school graduation, and plenty irritating in the context of a group of iraqwarmongers, though I do like the song.

[malmapus]

54. Yup Sherman's men were said to of broken out in it

When they started their march out of Atlanta and through the rest of Georgia.

I still prefer Blood on the Risers :)

[paineinthearse]

4. I see the lyrics akin to a prayer

I understand the significance of this being a civil war-era call to battle, but to use it at a graduation, where the emphesis should be on the childrens' hopes and dreams is just wrong.

[SaveElmer]

6. Believe it was written as an anti-slavery song...

And as an anthem for Union soldiers. Julia Ward Howe herself was a feminist and abolitionist...and a Unitarian.

I don't really see anything wrong with singing it. When I was in the high school orchestra we used to play the Messiah every year.

Battle Hymm of the Republic, despite its lyrics, has been kind of secularized through the years...it has more historical significance than religious in my opinion.

[progressoid]

13. Umm

but even if one accepts that it is "secularized" (which I don't - some people were looking to the ceiling for the rapture), why play it at a graduation? How does it address any secular concerns of a high school graduate?

[SaveElmer]

22. It doesn't...

Maybe that's what they were working on in chorus...we played all sorts of things, some otensibly religious. For me, and maybe I am way out there, that song has always represented the northern effort in the Civil War. It was the most popular song among northerners, hated among southerners, and has always seemed more a patriotic, than religious song to me.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. I'm a southerner and don't hate the song

because of the anti-slavery theme. I like that part because I don't like slavery either. I'm just a lil weary now days with anything where it's really over-religious with all the patriotism now days and demonizing of other religious beliefs. This song is clearly a Christian song with refrences to Christ. What about those in the audience who are Jewish or children in the choir who are Jewish? Or Muslim or anything else for that matter?

[progressoid]

44. Strangely one of the two student speakers was Muslim!

That's probably why everyone clapped so loudly. Just to make sure the "heathens" got the message!

[SaveElmer]

59. Well actually I was referring to Southern soldiers

During the Civil War. I'm old, things may have changed...when I was growing up in public school I always thought of it as a patriotic rather than religious song.

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. It speaks to those who are wavering in the decision to enlist.

To Arms! To Arms! War is Good!

[El Supremo]

10. John Brown's Body

The original lyrics, equally repulsive:


John Brown's Body
by Anonymous

John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave,
John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave,
John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave,
But his soul goes marching on.

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah,
Glory, glory, hallelujah,
Glory, glory, hallelujah,
His soul goes marching on.

He's gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord,
He's gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord,
He's gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord,
His soul goes marching on.
(Chorus)

John Brown's knapsack is strapped upon his back,
John Brown's knapsack is strapped upon his back,
John Brown's knapsack is strapped upon his back,
His soul goes marching on.
(Chorus)

John Brown died that the slaves might be free,
John Brown died that the slaves might be free,
John Brown died that the slaves might be free,
But his soul goes marching on.
(Chorus)

The stars above in Heaven now are looking kindly down,
The stars above in Heaven now are looking kindly down,
The stars above in Heaven now are looking kindly down,
On the grave of old John Brown.
(Chorus)

[fishwax]

20. why's that one repulsive?

I mean, I'd be shocked if it were played at a high school graduation ...

[AntiCoup2K4]

31. Well, now I see why they changed the lyrics

....that's more repetitive than a disco song!

[immoderate]

11. It's a classic!

A great piece of music. Music gets special dispensation under doctrine of "artistic license."

Yes it may have religious or other references that are not everyone's sensibility. But you'd throw out many great classics on that basis. It's just a song!

BTW, Lalo Shiffrin did a really great jazz version of it, so did Oscar Peterson.

BTW, I'm an atheist, and I collect Christmas albums. Love Bobby Timmons version of "We Three Kings."

--IMM

[progressoid]

24. Sure, there a LOTS of classics

And many that don't evoke the glory of war and god in the same song.

BTW, I'm also a nonbeliever, but I don't think this song was chosen for historic or artistic reasons. This was playing to the right. I doubt they would have applauded as loudly for "Morning has Broken".

[immoderate]

39. Morning Has Broken?

Did Oscar Peterson or Dizzy Gillespie do that one? I am not familiar with it. It could be subjective, but is it really as powerful and evokative and historical a work as the Battle Hymn?

A little perspective here. I have an old friend and when we are on a road trip, we traditionally break out a rousing version of "God Bless America." Written by Irving Berlin, who was also an atheist. Should we avoid the dramas of Euripides, which are about gods?

By the way, that same old friend once in a college class was asked to expound upon the classic Greek playwright, and said, "Euripides -- ya pay for 'dese."

--IMM

[progressoid]

47. evocative - that's the key word

I doubt if two percent of the audience even knows the history of this song. All they hear are its implied meanings; patriotism, god and the glories of war. Gee, who else conveniently mixes these themes? And why would these themes be relevant today? This is the kind of event that makes Karl have Rovegasms.

OK - maybe "Morning has Broken" was poor alternative. How about "This Land is Your Land"

Heck, I have no problem with Euripides or even Godspell being performed for it's artistic purpose. But I can't see any aspect of Battle Hymn that has any relevance to a supposed secular high school graduation other than its political/religious implications.

[immoderate]

58. We would probably agree on most things. It's context.

I hear the Battle Hymn -- I hear the hook. I get swords and glory; the song has majesty. I'm not running off to war, but these things are strong in our human culture. I'm not relating it to current events.

But you are out there, and perhaps that's how it rung for you. It's like I cringe when I see a flag on a car. It's different than a flag on a podium because of the context.

You gotta listen to the Lalo Schiffrin version of the Battle Hymn -- it's funky.

--IMM

[progressoid]

61. Yeah, I'm feeling better - I ate a sandwich

I'll keep an eye out for Lalo's version

[immoderate]

67. On one of the albums he did with the London Synphony

Some good stuff.

--IMM

[karlrschneider]

12. In grade school we sang different lyrics to the music,

nearly all of which I've forgotten but it started out something like

"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord,
He was weaving down the highway in his '47 Ford
With one hand on a bottle and the other on the throttle,"
....that's all I can recall

;-)

[wicket]

16. our version was this:

"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured every teacher and broken every rule
We have hung the janitor and barbequed the principal
Our troops keep marching on!"

It's evil, but we were just kids of the Reagan 80s ;)

[El Supremo]

23. I remember the chorus in this version.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the downfall of the school
We have bothered every teacher, we have broken every rule
We tore into the office and we tickled the principal
Our truth is marching on

Glory, glory hallelujia
Teacher hit me with a ruler,
So I bopped her on the bean
With a rotten tangerine
And the juice came dripping down

Glory, glory hallelujia
Teacher hit me with a ruler,
So I hid behind the door
With a loaded 44,
And the teacher don't teach no more

[wicket]

25. oh yeah!

I had almost forgotten about that! :)

We actually sang the last part as:

Glory, glory hallelujia
Teacher hit me with a ruler,
Met her in the attice
With a loaded automatic,
And she ain't my teacher no more

:evilgrin:

[AntiCoup2K4]

33. Yeah, I remember that!

Except for the tangerine part. We didn't have that verse.

As for the original "Battle Hymn", I prefer the 80's hair metal version by Jesus' favorite band of transvestite bees.....

[William769]

15. History of the song

As a result of their voluntary work with the Sanitary Commission, in 1862 Samuel and Julia Howe were invited to Washington by President Lincoln. The Howes visited a Union Army camp in Virginia across the Potomac. There, they heard the men singing the song which had been sung by both North and South, one in admiration of John Brown, one in celebration of his death: "John Brown's body lies a'mouldering in his grave."

http://womenshistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa013100c.htm

[wicket]

19. I didn't know it was the Civil War song of the North

interesting.

:kick:

[NoPasaran]

18. I don't find anything wrong with it

AT least it's not that ghastly Pomp & Circumstance

[madinmaryland]

21. Goddam earworms!

Now I got that song going thru my head, probably for the rest of the afternooon.
:mad:

[Rowdyboy]

30. Its a beautiful song celebrating the end of slavery....Its uplifting

to me-sorry you find it offensive

[progressoid]

49. I agree - It is a beautiful song celebrating the end of slavery

But I doubt many (if any) in the audience appreciate it for that reason. They hear: God. War. Patriotism. Just like on Rush and Foxnews.

[Rowdyboy]

64. Its hard for me to understand because when I was a kid, they actually

taught us in class about the song and the context in which it was written. The image of men marching off to fight and die to end slavery really stuck with in my mind. Schools have changed so much that, sadly, you may well be right.

[Blue_In_AK]

35. I kind of remember us singing this song at my graduation

from high school in 1964, along with "Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor," which, of course, nobody would sing these days since we're no longer encouraging immigration. "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore"? F*** 'em. "The homeless, tempest-tossed." Please. Send 'em back to Haiti. /Sarcasm off.

[wicket]

38. Lou Reed has a great line in his song "Dirty Boulevard"

"Give me your tired, your poor, I'll piss on 'em. That's what the Statue of Bigotry says, Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death and get it over with"

[Blue_In_AK]

42. You can count on Lou Reed to get it right. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

41. We sang it at a Chistmas Pageant in Elementary School.

At the time, the kids were all Christian (more or less). Everybody but the Jehovah's Witnesses kids participated. It was the last number, sung as we left the room (the recessional?)

We only sang the last verse & a chorus. The music teacher included it because the Civil Rights movement was very much in the news. Don't know how many of the rural Texas audience knew that little fact.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

[patcox2]

43. You want to ban U-2s "mysterious ways?"

How about George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord?"

At least the battle hymn is the song of those who opposed slavery and fought against it.

[progressoid]

48. Have you ever heard "My Sweet Lord" sung by a public school choir?

[Johonny]

46. It's certainly

a more moving song to hear than the stale God Bless America. Given the civil war context and the views of the world in 1860s the song seems to capture a clear mood of America in those times.

[DARE to HOPE]

53. Give it a rest, everyone...this is HISTORY and TRADITION

Some of us are glad that Iowa schools still do teach music, and music that has something to do with who we are and where we've come from.

Iconoclasts who want to destroy everything from our nation's past will LOSE us many MORE elections BTW. I have been as modern and forward thinking as anyone, but I am tired of the ignorance that would throw out the whole culture. Human beings can only tolerate so much change. It is high anxiety that is putting pressure on the "Christian right," and many in the middle and left as well.


Me, I cry whenever our little preschool and kindergarten kids sing "The Ants Go Marching Two By Two" to the Civil War dirge, "When Johnny Comes Marching Home"--for ALL the lost young lives.

[bklyncowgirl]

55. I agree. Give it a rest.

This is ths sort of silly shit that gives the right wing ammunition to paint progressives as a bunch of athiestic nutcases.

This is an historical song. Understanding the context in which this song was written and sang should be a part of education. Abolitionists were in part motivated by thier religious beliefs. To deny that would be to deny history.

[ZombieNixon]

56. My graduation (yesterday) was the first time in four years that my school

HASN'T played and sung BHR.

[progressivebydesign]

57. We did this thread last year here. Must be a school tradition. n/t

[Deep13]

60. Sorry, but it's my favorite song.

Whether any 'hymn' is appropriate in public school is another matter. Still, it is steeped in history. As mentioned, it evolved from John Brown's Body and was written by the women's sufferage activist, Julia Ward Howe, and 100s sang it at her funeral.

I am aware of an eclesiastical version that ends, "As he died to make men holy, let us LIVE to make men free." The lyrics quoted in the first post is the original marshall version.

[ArtVandaley]

62. Dude, I love that song

It's so powerful and moving! It actually is probably the most liberally-based patriotic song in the country, given that it was written as an anti-slavery song for the Union soldiers.
I say keep it coming.

[Rowdyboy]

65. The only other liberally based patriotic song I can even think of is

Woody Guthrie and "This Land"

[ComerPerro]

66. Interesting choice