I ran into an old buddy of mine at the commissary yesterday.

[MrScorpio]

When we last saw each other, he was a civilian that I used to work with, when I had a part time job at the Base Exchange a few years back.

Turns out that he joined the Army and became a Combat Cameraman. Tough job. You're in the shit. But instead of first shooting back at the enemy with your weapon when they're shooting at you, you have to take shots with your camera. That takes a lot of guts.

After ragging him about not joining the Air Force and noticing that we were wearing the same shirt, I asked him what he was up to. He told me that he had just gotten back from a tour in Iraq.

One thing that I always remembered about my friend was that he was always extremely chipper. Almost annoyingly so. He was a great worker, but with that hyper attitude of his it was always a little grating at times.

Well yesterday as we talked, I noticed that the Army had changed him. He had buffed out a little, his fashion sense had improved and he had mellowed out a little. In short, he had matured somewhat. I asked him about Iraq... How was it? He told me it was fucked up. Things are not pretty over there at all and he was glad to be out. I made my standard complaint that we need to pull our troops out and let the Iraqis fend for themselves and he agreed.

I sensed that he was resentful about all the lies that we were told in order to invade Iraq, because he recited what they told us and what we instead found.

There's only so much discontent that troops can openly profess in a public place on base, like the commissary. So I thought it best to cut that part of our conversation short. Open ears and all. But I was sure that we were both on the same page. When we finished our very pleasant conversation, we both went our separate ways to continue our shopping, but not before we gave each other a solid handshake.

Fact is that the troops over there see what a fucked up thing was done to give the Neocons their Operation Bush Vendetta. They know that they've been given a raw deal, and if they're coming home alive, they're coming back with their eyes wide open.

If you can, please do me a favor when meet a returning troop. First, thank him or her for their service. Second, tell them that you're glad that they made it back home. Third, tell them that despite your opposition to Bush and his war of aggression, you want what's best for the troops... For them to all come home.

I'm sure that they will understand that that whole exercise was not worth all the grief and the lives that were lost. And perhaps you'll gain an informed ally to help make things right.

[NewHampshireDem]

1. Well said n/t

[MissHoneychurch]

2. thank you MrScorpio

just thank you.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. We're all being shafted,

all of us. Thanks for this.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. I always thank veterans

My father was a veteran of WW2, Korea, and managed to stay stateside as a missile technician and technical trainer during Vietnam. I got to see first-hand what the Military was all about, for both bad and good, when I was growng up.

Most of the guys I knew from the base thought that Vietnam was just plain FUBAR. Dad encouraged me to love my country but to not mistake patriotism for blind obedience. That message, fortunately, was easier to hear in the 1960s and 1970s than it is today.

In spite of painful experience, we continue to make the same mistakes every 20-40 years or so. Iraq is turning out to be amazingly similar to Vietnam, except that while (the) Vietnam(s) had been cut loose by its various patron states, the "message" of Iraq is resonating throughout the Islamic world.

--p!

[Wright Patman]

5. Did anyone see the letter

from the "dead soldier" which made the news on Memorial Day? I think * mentioned it in some speech.

I am amazed someone dead could write a letter. I have to conclude that he must have written it just before he expired from his wounds.

Anyhow, he made the argument that we must continue the war and can never pull out short of total victory (what exact;u would that look like?) or else he would have died in vain.

It took a while, but I knew I would hear reprised this old argument from the Vietnam era which was repeated over and over again from about 1966 on until the helicopter evacuated the embassy in Saigon in 1975.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. Does anybody know what

that letter actually says?

[nonconformist]

6. I agree.

As an aside, every first-hand account from a soldier on the conditions in Iraq I've heard have said it was "fucked up" or "a total mess" over there.

We should all be respectful and supportive of them, god knows the right doesn't give two shits about them beyond meaningless symbols. These folks have been through hell and back, and THEIR voices might be the ones that finally end this quagmire.

[MrScorpio]

7. During last year's campaign when he used the troops as a backdrop

I wonder how of them understood how they were being manipulated for his political gain, and if they did, how many didn't appreciate it in the least.

Those of us who served know what a mandatory formation is.

I'm sure that when the CinC shows up on base the troops were ordered to look enthusiastic. Ostensibly to make him look as if the troops overwhelmingly supported him.

Then right after that, they were shipped right off to fight and die in his war.

[FreedomAngel82]

18. I remember a few weeks ago

on BradBlog's radio show (his second or third one) he had a solider on there who had just returned from the middle east (I believe Iraq or Afghainstain). The solider got hurt in combat and was recovering at a veteran hospital. They used leeches to help his wounds and Bush was at the hospital and went around seeing people. He came into this soliders room and was very disrespectful of him. This solider didn't like it at all you could tell in his voice (I think BradBlog might still have it up in their archives). Bush didn't call him by his rank (sergent) but by a nickname only friends call him by. He also was disgusted by his wound and didn't even say anything about it except for "ew." A few moments later a photographer popped in and took their photo and then he left. Go figure! I think Bush is doing a fine job on his image with the middle east, the world and our own troops. Once they learn the truth and they see for themselves how bad things are they aren't going to be happy campers. I know I wouldn't if I was going over there. I'm glad this guy made it back. I just wish we could leave today.

[MrScorpio]

20. I've seen right through Bush since day one.

To him, the troops are nothing more than a prop that he uses to exploit for political gain.

Frankly, I believe that he has nothing but contempt for the military, because he has gone out of his way to stock it with yes men and rid it of independent thought.

Just ask Gen. Shinseki.

[Nothing Without Hope]

8. Thank you for this. I felt I could almost see him. You shook his hand

for all of us.

[Wilms]

9. Thanks n/t

[WMliberal]

10. Ft. Eustis?

[MrScorpio]

11. No, we went shopping at Langley yesterday

So how are you doing, guy?

[deadparrot]

12. Scary stuff.

Thanks for sharing. You couldn't pay me enough to be over there. :scared:

Sounds awful.

[Eloriel]

13. Excellent advice -- and I'm grateful for it

I've seen a couple of uniformed and ex-military in my little rural area over the last several months and I didn't QUITE know what to say to them. I didn't JUST want to do the "rah rah, troops, go, go, war, war" type greeting (wanted to be more honest than that), but didn't quite know how to do it. I think your point #3 covers that well -- doesn't

[MrScorpio]

14. I think Nonconformist's thread says it much more eloquently

Check it out

[FreedomAngel82]

15. What I think is so wrong

is how they can't critize their boss, aka Bush. If you were an employeer some place and knew your boss was doing something illegal and caught him wouldn't you want to tell? What's so different from now then Vietnam with the thousand's who protested Nixon? Why can't they protest Bush more? Maybe if more of them spoke out to rightwingers they'll see what's going on in this country.

[MrScorpio]

19. Well in my curent status, I've regained my free speech rights

But you're right. Those in uniform are prohibited from badmouthing the CinC.

But don't think that it doesn't happen between like minds.

The Air Force has a lot of people who tend to mouth off from time to time. The brain washing is much less prevalent.

[IChing]

16. thanks man good point