Should you get turned down for a job because of bad credit?

[trumad]

Shit... I would have never worked when I was younger.

[shoelace414]

1. how can you improve your credit without a job?

[Deep13]

2. no

It has nothing to do with seeking credit. Working or getting an apartment are not borrowing. Credit is irrelevant. One should not have to prove loyalty to corporate America to make a living.

Whether it is legal or not to use a credit check for employment is not known to me.

[Love Bug]

3. NO

Unless you've been convicted of theft or embezzlement a bad credit history shouldn't be held against you, and frankly, is none of their damn business.

[kcwayne]

10. It may be their business.

As the owner of a small company, I would never hire anyone with bad credit to handle financial transactions or be in control of items that can be converted to cash, such as inventory or tools.

The pressure of the debts is such an inducement to steal that it does not warrant me taking the risk.

[Mika]

12. Huh/maybe, but..

.. I try to look at it w/a more positive spin.

An employee seeking to improve their credit could be the best worker you had. They need the job (possibly) more than others w/good credit.

[kcwayne]

13. It is easier to speculate when it is OPM

I am not a psychologist, don't play one on TV, and didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I don't like making decisions that put my livelihood in jeopardy.

While a person under duress may act as you suggest, if that person walks out with the company's cash or empties the warehouse and sells it on Ebay, I cannot make payroll, pay my suppliers, or get the tools I need to the job. I am at risk of having my life's work destroyed.

If I know the person well, and fully understand the circumstances of their credit problem, such as a health disaster, I would take that on board for the decision, but would still act cautiously.

Larger companies have the luxury of more controls, but small companies can be put out of business by taking these risks.

[Solon]

37. Unless the report is inaccurate,

as in my case, right now my credit sucks. This is because back about 5 years ago, my roomate broke the water heater in his closet at our apartment, flooding it and the apartment downstairs(unoccupied). We got kicked out within a week(think that was illegal, but young, stupid, no lawyer). Then, about 4 months later, got a summons for court, being sued by the landlord for damages totalling over 2,000 dollars, to replace all the carpeting he never actually replaced. We ended up settling for about 600 dollars because of the comment above. At the time, I was forced to move back in with my parents, because I had NO notice and couldn't save up for a new deposit or get my old deposit back(obviously). So I paid the debt, thought everything was great, go to get a different apartment, with different roommates this time around, and low and behold, almost couldn't do it, because, according to my credit report, I owe someone over 2 grand that I already paid, had to go to the courthouse and get the documents to prove I paid off all my debts(only one but hey).

The thing that kills me, I refuse to get a credit card, never had one, still don't intend to get one, hate being in debt. I paid off two cars already, both early, and also a student loan, also early. Never one late payment in all that time, and now, I'm continually being punished for something that wasn't even my fault, except for putting my name on a lease with an idiot. The thing that kills me is that it will cost me money I should never have to pay to get it erased from my credit report, and even that may not be successful, so I'm waiting right now. This fucking sucks, and now I may not be able to even get a fucking job because of it? What type of Bullshit is that?

[kcwayne]

43. Life is not guaranteed to be fair

and sometimes you just have to hit curveballs. But in the end, to get what you want, you need to look at it from the perspective of the person who is going to grant you what you want, and determine what will make them see their benefit in taking action that benefits you.

[progressivebydesign]

55. Actually paying cash for everything also screws up your credit.

Completely eschewing credit is almost as bad as screwing it up. How messed up is that? In order to function in our new reality, it's wise to open a few small credit accounts and pay them dilegently but not keep them at zero. Lack of credit history will keep you from eventually buying a house or anything you may need later on credit.

It's completely stupid... yes.

[Solon]

57. Shit, at this point in time, I really don't care...

Don't want the interest rates of a home loan either, that plus the HIGH interest rates for credit cards are why I will never have either. If I can, I'll bank the money and buy a home in cash, probably won't be able to live in my own home for a decade, but will probably pay less than someone with a 20-25 yr. mortgage.

[progressivebydesign]

53. Wow people with bad credit steal? Are you sure? n/t

[Zorra]

73. Of course they do! Just like all poor people and minorities steal!

:shrug:
:sarcasm:

[earth mom]

86. Sorry but your attitude is biased and wrong.

Look at someones criminal record if you need to, or get a personal reference; but judging someone on their PERSONAL finances (which is really not an employers business) has ZERO to do with a persons ability to be a good and trustworthy employee. It's this kind of judgmental attitude that is so pervasive these days such as when insurance companies run credit checks in addition to driving history. What the F does a credit check have to do with a driving history-NOTHING! This attitude is so destructive to many peoples lives and livelihood and has kept many a good person down-forever cursed by bad choices or bad luck they had in the PAST, that for all intents and purposes is OVER and DONE WITH. No one is perfect. And no one should be forever hung out to dry for their own personal mistakes that hurt no one but themselves.

[kcwayne]

95. The reality is that when you do public financing, your finances are no

longer personal, whether you want them to be or not. Corporations share transaction data about individuals and businesses to assess risk. If they did not do this, they would have to raise the cost of performing all services to cover the higher risk of providing capital or services to unknown customers.

If you really want your finances to be private, borrow from private sources. No fuss, no muss, unless you are borrowing from the mob.

And your framing is off. People do not live with their mistakes forever. People that go bankrupt will ultimately be able to restore some measure of financial trustworthiness through time. Credit histories are rolling calculations, and most businesses will look at the last 2-3 years for good history, and subdue the past unless it is particularly onerous.

[Solon]

105. I say that small companies need to have their credit history...

be revealed by all prospective employees. I've had paychecks bounce, which is a fucking pain, and I should have owned the fucking place I worked for(I quit instead), because of their irresponsibility. Where is the company's responsibility to the employee in this case?

[Horse with no Name]

16. But if you also look at it from the other side

Thieves generally don't have bad credit because they will steal what they need to maintain it.
Honest people are the ones who take the fall.
A guy I worked with years ago was a wonderful air conditioning repair man. He and his wife had a child with leukemia.
They ended up losing everything they had and being stuck with bad credit to pay for her treatments.
By your criteria this man would have stolen everything to make ends meet. But if he had, he might have been able to keep a roof over his family's head.
Instead, he ended up the way he started. An honorable man.
Not an honorable man who stole.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. But what if the job did not involve handling

your company's money?

[uncle ray]

48. then you're probably not hiring some good people

you must know the old tale of the cobbler's children having no shoes? it doesn't just apply to the cobbler, but average people as well. there are many people who give 110% at their job, whatever it is, only to slack off on their personal responsibilities. some people, after working a 14 hour day, then taking care of the kids, household chores etc. can be just to worn out to balance the checkbook or make sure the credit card payment got sent, or just maybe their tight assed employer will not pay them a living wage? an employer not paying what his employee is worth is more likely to cause stealing than debt itself is.

[mermaid]

51. God-DAMN, You Just Hit The Nail On The Head!!!

"an employer not paying what his employee is worth is more likely to cause stealing than debt itself is."

Bingo!!
That is all I can add.

No, I personally would not steal from an employer, that is plain stupid...but I can understand what might motivate an employee to do it...and being a cheap-ass that won't pay a living, decent wage to your employees...that seems to me to be the most likely motivator in creating an employee who will steal, if he thinks he can get away with it!

[uncle ray]

62. sometimes it amazes me how it seems most business owners

think that everybody that is contempt to work for an hourly wage is lazy and out to do as little as possible, and that they are doing us a favor by LETTING us work for them. it's a complex relationship between employer and employee, but it's the employer who is the lazy one to base such decisions of how valuable an employee is by their credit report. attitudes like that are hurting America much more than the lazy proles.

[kcwayne]

65. And how do you reach this august decision about me based on what I have

posted? You have no idea what I pay, what the company's employees think about their work and reward system, or how I treat people in the company.

Yet you feel free to cast aspersions on my character and suggest my attitude is "hurting America". You are ignorant of my attitude, but yet you have no qualms about letting loose your degrading opinion of me. It is despicable.

[The Straight Story]

78. In the same way you assesed risks of others

People used their experiences and applied those to how they would guess you run or will run your business.

Not always fun to be on the end where people judge you based on knowing so little about you. A credit report is very little about people (and it seems like the biggest theives in business are the white collar folks with good credit - ala Ken Lay and so on down the line).

[kcwayne]

79. Clever twist of logic, but still wrong

If I look at a credit report that shows a serial history of writing bad checks, loan foreclosures, car repossessions, and wage garnishments to make a decision with, I am basing it on evidence at hand.

Someone that speculates I am a scumbag that parties with Ken Lay and oppresses the working man by not paying enough and then calling them lazy on the basis that I am a business owner is making unwarranted projections based on absolutely no evidence.

[The Straight Story]

80. Ah, but that is more clear

Specifying certain types of bad credit vs simply having bad credit. Like mine - was hosed for sometime after divorced because X used my name to get things. No one had my new address (she used hers) and I never got the bills.

But specifying the things you did does clear up your views.

[earth mom]

88. Exactly! Well said! eom

[KansDem]

91. You got that right!

I've worked several jobs with small business owners and the only thing more contemptible to them than the hourly employee is the customer. I also have to laugh when I hear folks say how this country runs on small businesses and how small businesses employ the most workers. That may be true, but I'm constantly amazed at the attitude of the small business owners toward their employees and especially their customers: As long as you come into the store, buy something and leave without complaining or demanding too much, you're O.K. But the very instant you have a complaint; BAM! You're a "problem customer."

And the small business owners I've encountered believe their problems are not of their own making, but due to the Japanese, the Germans, the Democrats, the Unions, or the Government. It's amazing to hear them bitch and moan about how bad their business is doing while neglecting it at the same time!

[kcwayne]

93. So shop at Walmart if you hate small business so much

How many small business owners do you really know? If your neighborhood has so many poor operators, maybe I should expand there.

[KansDem]

98. I never said I hate small business...

I just said I'm constantly amazed at the attitude that some of the owners have toward their employees and customers. This is based on 35+ years working part-time jobs, second jobs, summer jobs, etc.

For example:
1) I worked for two years as a bartender in a comedy club. The owner did not want to talk to complaining customers and instructed me to "handle the complaints." Why? Why should I, an hourly-paid employee, handle complaining customers, especially if they specifically ask for the owner?

2) One season I worked at a garden center. Along with other duties, we sprayed chemicals on lawns. I was told by another crew member that I should wear rubber gloves and boots when we did this. I asked why and was told that "this stuff is nasty." I wondered why I wasn't warned by the owner? I asked one of his managers about this chemical and was told "Once it gets in your system, it's hard to get rid of..." I expressed concern about this. The resolution? I was laid off a short time later.

3) One summer I worked as a messenger. My job was to pick up ad copy and payment for an organization's newsletter, usually from the owner of the company solicited. I spent many times looking for someone in the office to help me. I mean, I could have easily walked off with all kinds of office equipment since no one, NO ONE, was anywhere to be found. I thought "How does this business stay in business?" And occasionally I had an owner chastise me for not making an appropriate sales pitch as I couldn't fully explain to them about the service/product (I wasn't suppose to, they had already agreed to the deal but forgot about it. They would tell me, "you're wasting my time!"). I would have to explain that (a) I wasn't there to make a sales pitch, that (b) I was there to pick up a check and ad copy for a service the owner had already agreed to. Usually they'd shut up after learning their mistake, but I still sense some acrimony toward me, the lowly messenger.

4) Another summer I worked at a used furniture warehouse. We would bring in used furniture and appliances (usually due to loan agreements with finance companies). Anyway, many of the stoves we had to handle came right out of the homes/apartments and were filthy and caked with grease. We got this stuff on our clothes and hands and the sink at the warehouse didn't work properly. This was occasionally reported to the owner, but nothing was ever done. For the whole summer, whenever we encountered a greasy appliance, we had to work with that grease on ourselves for the rest of the day (did you ever work an entire day with bacon grease on your hands, arms and clothes?), unless we were able to get away (say, at lunchtime) and wash up at a nearby fast food place.

These are just a few of the many experiences I've had. I will say that most of the owners were good to work for, but when I hear of owners requesting credit checks or drug testing as a prerequisite for employment, I doubt very much if these owners would make good bosses. It seems they would be too suspicious of their employees to value their work effort. Any "guilty till proven innocent" attitude would surely undermine any mutual respect so essential for a good, productive employer/employee relationship.

Oh, and incidentally, I don't shop at WalMart due to their shitty attitude toward their employees.

[Madrone]

50. I completely disagree with your assumption.

As someone that had poor credit for a loooooong time - and someone who got a job as a cashier at a ski resort only because they forgot to get the paper from me that I "forgot" to give them for a credit check....

I think that your attitude about trustworthiness and credit is stupid. If I were a THIEF I could have had excellent credit. PERFECT credit, in fact. Because I'm honest - it took me a long time to fix my credit - especially on minimum wage.

FYI - I would have failed the credit test for employment, but the people I worked with that PASSED stole the place blind. Money, product, equipment, whole kegs of beer - you name it. As for me - my cash drawer balanced to the PENNY more often than anyone else on the mountain - and I was absolutey mortified by the blatant theft I saw going on all around me.

Think about what I've said - poor credit does not equal high risk for employee theft, and good credit definitely does not equal the reverse.

[kcwayne]

64. Are you speaking as someone who has never signed a company check

on the front side, and has never been ripped off by an employee? I have done both, and have learned by experience over 20 years of being in business.

Indicators are not laws. Judging someone's ethics is not about algebraic equality, it is about using what you know to make a decision, and balancing the risks based on what is always an assumption.

The fact that you had bad credit but are still honest puts you in the majority of people. Most people do not steal. But those that do have some common traits, and bad credit is one of them, along with drug abuse, psychological issues and marital problems.

Your assertion that theives have perfect credit is counter-intuitive, and I doubt you can point to any source of confirmation of that.

On another topic, this is the internet, where keyboard warriors feel free to fling insults with no concern for reciprocity, but calling me stupid is very ill mannered on your part. My guess is that you wouldn't dare do that in person, and if you would, I wouldn't hire you for that a whole lot faster than I wouldn't hire you for your credit record.

[Madrone]

72. I didn't call YOU stupid.

I said that I think the attitude about credit and determining trustworthiness is stupid. There IS a difference - and I am sorry if you are offended, it was not my intent to offend you.

Personally, I find it insulting to insinuate that because I had bad credit I was prone to seeking out ways to defraud an employer - :shrug:

I also never made an assertion that thieves have perfect credit. I'm saying credit does not determine someone's likelihood to be an honest person or employee.

And no, I've never signed a company check "on the front side" - but I've watched MANY employers be robbed blind both by coworkers and management. And I mean robbed hand over fist. I know a little something about the subject - from first hand observation. You know, the kind of first hand observation the person signing checks "on the front side" isn't likely to be privvy to.


According to ChoicePoint, credit isn't an accurate indicator of employee theft risk -

“Credit has not turned out to be a good predictor of workplace theft. This is what our customers are telling us, anyway,” Lee said. “A better predictor is a criminal history involving bounced checks.”

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/Yourcreditrating/P87306.asp

[UdoKier]

82. That's bullcrap.

Being in debt does NOT make people more dishonest.

And thieves like Ken Lay and Kozlowsky were not in debt. That is BIGOTRY, plain and simple.

Checking criminal records is fair - credit histories should be kept PRIVATE. Mind your own business!

[kcwayne]

92. Sure, want to split my losses with me?

I lost $50,000 in hard cash and a client that was generating $500,000 a year in business due to a couple of bad hires that I did not do background screening on. It turned out they had a long history of scamming people, employers, banks, and lenders. I have not had that problem since I starting checking backgrounds and staying away from people with a long road of bad transactions irresponsible financial behavior.


If you don't want your good or bad credit transactions to be transparent, just borrow privately. Or I guess you could work to get laws passed to make financial transactions completely private, and watch credit dry up like the Sahara, jobs much harder to find, and the economy collapse like the Graf Zeppelin.

[UdoKier]

96. How do you equate indebtedness with con artists?

I'm sure a ton of con artists have great credit. I'm not arguing against background screening. It's checking people's credit that's beyond the pale. If your hires were "scammers" they more than likely had criminal records, and verifying their revferences would have been a good idea too.

The VAST MAJORITY of people with high debt levels and/or bad credit are 100% honest, law-abiding citizens. Why do you continue to smear them?

[kcwayne]

99. Your framing is off target

I have stated elsewhere that a majority of people do not steal, and I have never said high debt was an indicator that I consider. I never equated indebtedness with con-artists, but don't let that stop you from making a falacious argument and touting your superior morality.

The people that scammed me did not have criminal records but they had awful credit histories. Had I seen their credit history prior to engaging them, I would have been spared a whole lot of grief.

We disagree about credit. When you seek credit in the public market, it is a public transaction. You may not like it, but that is the reality. You are free to seek private credit if you don't like it. But when you borrow money from a public entity that establishes the criteria by which they will loan you the money, it is normally in the contract that you agree to their terms of disclosure of the transaction. Again, if you don't like that, see the local loan shark and see if you like their terms better.

[mermaid]

107. No YOUR FRAMING Is OFF TARGET

I'm not looking to borrow money from you when I am asking you for a JOB!! I am asking for an ability to earn a fucking livlihood!! what I do with my private life, especially, my own personal finances...are none of your fucking business!

I'm not looking to borrow money from you, so why should you have any right to look and pry into my credit, just because I want a job?

[mermaid]

106. Sure, Make Me A FUCKING PARTNER

And split your goddamn PROFITS with me, too, then...cheapskate!!

No, you want to pay shit wages, and then suggest I, or other employees ought to split the LOSS...but when there's a really GOOD YEAR...do you pass on some of that to the people whose backs you made it off of? I fuckin' doubt it!

[kcwayne]

111. With your attitude you will go far

The depth of ignorance in your reply is breathtaking.

You have absolutely no idea in the world what I pay, and how I reward performance, and how profits are distributed. None. Yet you have the audacity to be rude, crude, and accusatory, in spite of being completely ignorant about what you are talking about.

[mermaid]

112. No...YOU Are The IGNORANT One

suggesting that ANY employee out to share your LOSSES...but not your PROFITS. That makes you ignorant, greedy, and selfish. Just like all American businessmen...who are out to screw American workers every way they can.

There are no ethics in business anymore. The ends justify the means, now, in American business...and it is ALWAYS, ALWAYS the WORKER who gets the short end of the stick, and who takes it on the chin!

Maybe if you understood some of what I have been through, at the hands of so-called ETHICAL BUSINESSES...you might understand why I feel as I do, and why I hold businessmen in the utmost contempt.

So let me try to explain it in a very short story...I will highlight just the salient points of this, and answer any questions you might have.

In 2002, I was just an average, everyday person. I had a good, 40-hour a week job, with occasional overtime...I had health insurance, paid holidays, paid vacations, paid sick days, the ability to participate in a 401k plan for my retirement. In short, I had a good job, life was fair, and I respected my boss. He was a good man.

All that changed in 2003. That is when the shit started hitting the fan, and I have been walking through the shitstorm ever since! In 2003, we were informed our company had lost the State contract on which I worked...that we had about 10 months left to work, and then a new company was going to be working the contract.

Shortly after that announcement, the new company held an open house just for employees of the old company, where we were actively recruited to come work for them when the new company took over. We were PROMISED...verbally, of course...that our salaries were in no danger of being lowered...in fact, we were led to believe they would likely be HIGHER.

They explained that they paid on a piece-rate. They said that when they determined what the piece-rate would be, it was their intention that the average worker would make between 11 and 13 dollars an hour. Well, since, at the time, I WAS making 10 bucks an hour with the old company, this sounded okay by me.

Needless to say, I, and most of my co-workers, were in fact hired in by the new company, shortly after this meeting. We would start with them when the contract transition occurred, eight months hence. So, I had eight months left with my old company, and a job waiting for me at the end of it that would pay me at least as well, if not better, than the one I currently had. Life's good, right?

Wrong! When the new company set the piece rate, they set it far too low, and no amount of complaining, appealing or anything would get them to raise it...in fact, they reviewed it twice, and both times they LOWERED it. In the end, the average employee was making just under SEVEN bucks an hour (at that time, my own average was just under EIGHT bucks an hour...so my pay cut had nothing whatever to do with any inability on my part, I was well ahead of the company curve!!)

When confronted with the promises they'd made us way back when, their reaction was "prove it...prove it....prove we said that...where's it in writing??"

You know, after working on a job for three years, one usually expects a RAISE...not a fucking PAY CUT. And I took an over two-dollar an hour pay cut...after having been PROMISED no such thing would happen! And then to have them deny the very words they said when recruiting us!!

Had I known, at the time of that recruitment meeting...what I knew once I started in with the new company...that the rate of pay was going to be so low...I would have had eight months of time during which I was working...to look for another job...and, failing to find one, I'd have had a nice, safe layoff, and unemployment benefits. Instead, by LYING to all of us...this company basically took out of my hands...the ability to make an informed, reasoned decision about my own career future, by giving me false and misleading information...and then denying having done so!

So, here I am, now...working mandatory overtime to the tune of over 20 hours a week...on top of the 40 hours standard...all for two bucks an hour LESS than I had been making...to do the exact same job!! since when did I become worth two dollars less?!?! And why should I work all that overtime for sub-standard rates of pay...especially at a time in which gasoline prices were beginning to go thru the roof!??!

It cost me more than ever to get to and from work, and here I am, making LESS than I had ever made before in my life...and all because I was LIED TO...

Now...here comes the kicker...

Part of being employed by the new company was that all employees had to attend a training in BUSINESS ETHICS...taught by, and administered by...the new company! WTF?!?! The company that lied to all of us about our salary is going to teach US fucking BUSINESS ETHICS?!?!?

Anyway, for me that was the final straw, and I submitted my two-week notice, with no job lined up, and knowing I would not get unemployment. I'd saved up some, and was hopeful I could manage until such time as I earned enough on part-time or temp jobs...to be eligible for unemployment despite quitting.

This was April, 2004. Since then, I have not had a decent job. Not one. Every place I have gone has progressively paid me less...or taken away my benefits...it has been a downhill ride ever since. Now, it has gotten so bad I was forced to move back home with Mommy...a 34-year old failure at life...after having made it all my working life on my own, I could no longer manage.

Now...I work as a permanent temp. That seems to be the NEW way in which companies have learned how to treat employees in an unfair manner. As a permanent temp...I get no paid holidays, no paid sick days, no vacations, no health benefits, no 401k, no nothing. In fact, on Memorial Day...when 95% of America got to sit on their collective lazy ASSES...and get PAID, to boot...where do you think I was?? I was AT WORK...for straight pay. Not overtime pay. No extra pay for working a holiday. No nothing.

And NOW...maybe you understand why I hold businessmen in such bitter contempt. I hate and despise every single one of the cheap bastards! They are all out to screw workers.

Oh, and the original company in this whole story?? The one who LIED to me...and wanted to teach me business ethics?? That company WAS, at the time, Number 447 on Fortune 500's list. I haven't looked lately. I hope that company falls on it's ass and goes fucking bankrupt!!! Couldn't happen to a nicer, more deserving bunch of fucking assholes, if you ask me!

Believe me, Bucko...you'd feel the same way I do...if you had to swallow the shit sandwich that Corporate America has fed me!!

[kcwayne]

114. See post 111

You are making claims about me that have nothing to do with what I have said, and again disparaging my character with no knowledge whatsoever of who I am, what I do, or how I operate. Your attacks on me are juvenile and ignorant. This conversation is over, as I am not interested in dealing with obnoxious fools.

[losdiablosgato]

20. Bad credit get people fire all the time where I work

There are 50 people in my office and 3 have been fired this year so far for having bad credit as long as 7 years ago. More and more employers are looking at ones credit, which is one more reason to be responsible with it.

[elehhhhna]

24. When will companies divulge THEIR credit standing to prospective

employees? HA!

Cuts both ways.

[losdiablosgato]

25. Yes it does

[King Coal]

34. Bingo City Bingo, Elehhhhna.

So many, many people forget that it is a two-way street. That is and essential tenet to making capitalism work.

[DavidFL]

31. Out of curiosity, what's the name of the company? n/t

[losdiablosgato]

33. Can't say on line sorry.

[elehhhhna]

41. Enron? lol

[chalky]

109. Responsible?

Sure. Just don't do something irresponsible like:

-Get divorced.
-Get laid off.
-Have a medical crisis.

[SarahB]

4. Another invasion of privacy.

I haven't had to do this yet for a job, but I know it takes place. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

[sui generis]

5. absolutely not

that and pissing, shitting or jerking off in a cup are unacceptable violations of your privacy.

It's funny - I have refused to do piss tests, hair snip tests, lie detector tests, and London House, personality profile, IQ tests (as a consultant, no less) and by and large I've discovered that if you push back, sometimes they give, and the ones that don't aren't worth working for anyway.

[noiretextatique]

69. i refuse all tests too

i once did an incredibly long personality test for a job. the owner of the company turned out to be a complete luantic (surprise!) and a control freak. i agree with you...push back, or find another company.

[Modem Butterfly]

6. Depends on the job, depends on the credit

[AspenRose]

85. Banking

I had one run on me when I was applying for a job at a bank. I got the job, but mentioned to HR that it didn't seem fair that a hypothetical woman who had ruined credit because of a divorce and would need a job to support her family, wouldn't be given an opportunity to work at said company.

They didn't say anything. Just shrugged.

[leftofthedial]

7. Unequivocally NO

[Cash]

8. It's not just a coporate thing.

Here in NC, if you apply for a Mortgage Brokers License or even desire to be a Loan officer for a mortgage company, the Commissioner of Banks Office will review your credit before they determine whether you are eligible to be issued a Loan Officer License. You can be turned down for bad credit. This was signed into law by Gov. Mike Easley (D) around 3 years ago.

[rodeodance]

9. supposedly it is a sign of your character.

[tblue37]

45. When my son worked for a company subcontracted by the INS

to take Spanish language calls, several people who had gone through the intensive (and expensive) training were booted after their credit check, even though they had a shortage of workers who could take Spanish calls. Now, how would a credit problem affect one's ability to recite INS prefab BS to a hopeful immigrant?

[losdiablosgato]

66. Possibley these people can access the tax returns on their workstations

These have all kinds of info that can be used for ID theft.

[hector459]

11. No. And this happens to mostly minorities. n/t

[Democrat 4 Ever]

14. Well, you can't get car insurance with bad credit. either

My ex left me with a bad credit history on several bills he was ordered by the courts to pay. Had absolutely nothing to do with me except I was a spouse to a guy who embezzled his own business to fool the divorce court, etc. The courts have ordered him to clean this mess up. (I have no resources to begin to make this right. He even admitted under oath in front of the judge that he falsified the tax returns to hide monies from the court and me! I should have called the IRS and collected the reward. Didn't for the kids.)

Now I have my car insurance with a company I thought might be a little high. My age, no tickets, accidents, always pay my premiums well ahead of time, etc. Perfect insurance customer. Decided last month to just check around and see if I could get a better rate. Well, imagine my surprise when I found out that the only company to consider me was twice what I was already paying - thanks to the ex's refusal to settle old business debts. (I'm with a company that has been insuring my car, home, etc. for the last 15 years.) I can prove that these bills had nothing to do with me (official court documents) but no go. I've got bad credit because of him so I can't change insurance companies. I probably will never be able to own a home, not sure about what a job would ask, and the myriad of other situations that depends on good credit. (We have been separated for six years - divorced for four, yet, the a$$wipe is still like an old ghost haunting the house. (Meanwhile, he is living the good life on the credit of the girlfriend - just bought a new Harley motorcycle, house and new truck. He can buy any damn thing he wants but just keep your mess out of my life. End of rant.)

[Mnemosyne]

17. My ex- destroyed my credit, also after a court order

to pay bills he ran up in my name. 8 years later I am just rebuilding my credit.
Good rant!! I definitely feel your frustration!

:hi: :hug:

[Horse with no Name]

21. Been there, done that , ot the T-shirt.

It sucks. Very same scenario.
The only good that came out of it was the advice that I was able to give my daughters.
Keep your finances separate.
Have your own source of income.
Don't buy anything jointly for the first 10 years.
In the short term, they may have to do without some things, but in the long term, if the guy turns out to be a loser, then they can pick up their lives and move on without being saddled with someone else's burden.

[etherealtruth]

39. Seems to be a shared experience ...

... A few details changed, but the same story.

Stay at home mom who relocated as husband "climbed corporate ladder"------Divorced, he was assigned most of the debt in lieu of higher spousal support, in "Family court"------Despite specific court order NOT to discharge debt in bankruptcy, ex decided to do consulting work (at lower pay) filed for and was granted bankruptcy-----with-in 2 weeks of judgment Ex was once again gainfully employed (with well "above-average" salary)-----the debt reverted to me.

Credit destroyed.

Despite my extremely honest nature, my successes in the work place (prior to stay at home mommydom) ... My "poor credit" can and will be used against me ...

[BiggJawn]

70. Or a loan to fix your teeth!

The topic of the joint car loan came up during "Negotiations"...
Couldn't get my name off the note, and she refused to re-finance solely in her name.

So 3 years later, guess who's finance company dunning ME for the default? Yep.

4 more years down the road, guess who's still getting fucked on credit reports by a repo'd car? Yep.

That's why I have to pay 17% on my truck.

[sweetheart]

15. Its the new vogue for criminalizing poverty

The government wants to make poverty a crime, and is set about it
using all the mechanisms at its disposal, from sensebrenner's stupid
rat-grass law, to bankruptcy reform, credit checks and drugs testing.
All of these mechanisms are part of criminalizing and disenfranchising
poverty.

[lectrobyte]

26. What's the sensebrenner's law you are referring to? Thanks! nt

[sweetheart]

29. Its called: HR 1528

Here's some links... the law is a rider on an income
tax thing.... and its attempting to criminalize all persons who are
associated with anyone who does drugs (cannabis). As many aid and
charity workers are in exactly this situation, the law is an attempt
to criminalize and destroy all social outreach programmes to persons
related with drugs abuse... it is really a sick travesty.

http://www.rense.com/general64/fdei.htm
http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2005/04/ussc_speaks_out.html

I sent that senseless-brenner a note calling him a nazi thug... i hope
he gets it, that fucking asinine dirtbag.

[lectrobyte]

49. Just when I thought things couldn't any worse... Thanks for the info.

[noiretextatique]

67. more compassionate conservatism

hwo can they even say that with a straight face? what about those "communities of faith" and all the other nonsense they keep talking about? these folks really just want slaves to fill their corporate prisons.

[etherealtruth]

40. Exactly ...

Thanks for the concise statement.

[xmas74]

18. Absolutely not.

The past year has been hard for me. My full-time job has dramatically cut my hours. I have had to take on a part time job which does not pay as much just to survive. I don't always have enough money so my credit has taken a hit.
I applied at places like Lowes and Ace Hardware the other day. They not only demanded a credit check but wanted permission to speak w/ my neighbors if need be to check on my "morality and personal values". Personally, I think that your work record should speak for itself. Many of the employers do not look at the contributing factors as to why your credit may not be perfect. And, let's face it, most people w/ excellent credit are not applying for jobs as clerks at places like Lowes or Ace Hardware.
It's just another way to make sure that the poor stay poor.

[Obamarama]

32. "Morality and personal values" check? Are you SERIOUS!!??

Are you pulling our legs??!! I'm quite sure you're NOT, but I am completely agog at this invasion of privacy. I'm relieved to know, however, that the doofus cashier at Lowe's who shortchanged me $10 last week has impeccable morals (insert sarcasm here). What a load of SHIT.

If ANYONE asked for my permission to do a background check for "morality ane personal values" for a retail job I'd laugh, rip up my app and throw it in their fucking faces and say something like "My personal values are to circumvent insidious invasions of privacy to assess IRRELEVANT "moral issues," like the fact that I'm a big, ole HOMO, simply for the chance to work in your retail rat-race. Now fuck off and die."

[mermaid]

38. My Reaction Exactly!!

This is as bad as the reaction I had when a new company outbid my old company for a State contract, and offered most of us, including me, jobs with the new company...promising (verbally) that they would not lower ouur salaries.

The first thing they did was to change our salary structure in a manner that caused the average employee to lose two and a half bucks an hour! Usually, after working at a place for three years, you expect a fucking RAISE...not a PAY CUT...

And then, to be told..."where's your proof we said that...where's it in writing??"

And now HERE comes the kicker...
This new company required all employees to take a Business Ethics couse, taught and paid for by the employer! Great...the company that just fucking LIED to me about not cutting my pay...is gonna teach ME about BUSINESS ETHICS?!?!!? :wtf:

[elehhhhna]

102. y'all had rights to collective action on them through the DOL , maybe EEOC

You must know your rights. (so ya can watch them erode...)

[xmas74]

46. Nope.

Not pulling your leg. I would go back and pull up the application from Lowes where you have to give consent for that but I don't want to mess w/ giving my social security number just for that. I wish that I had saved it to a file but was too angry to think.
The only reason I applied at Lowes was because they are building one in my town. I walked into Ace and started to fill out an application but became angry when I saw the "morality and personal values check" on the application. I walked out but I gave them an earful first.
I can understand a certain aspect of it in some jobs (I work in a police department. You don't want an officer who is a wife beater so we technically have one. But ours seems more lax than Lowes was). You don't want someone who beats their wife and children working in public safety, you don't want someone who steals cable working for the cable company, etc. But the wording lead me to believe that it was much more than this. And at Ace they flat out said (per a manager) "What church do you go to?" None of their business!
Right now I am looking around for something w/ better pay. My department has had budget cuts so there aren't as many hours to go around. But I will not allow someone to nose into my private life, even though most people would say that I have done nothing wrong. Most of the time "personal morals" are not easily defined. The RR's could argue that being a single mother makes me morally bankrupt. The military fanatics in my area could say that protesting the war makes me a traitor.
I don't bring my politics to work (good thing since I work for a Republican-and he knows exactly what I do. I've never hidden it. On a personal level we get along well and on a political level we have agreed to disagree.). I don't expect others to either. Allowing a personal morals check gives consent for a company to bring their agenda to the workplace w/ them-even though it may not be work-related. And I will not work for a place like that.

[Obamarama]

56. Ace Harware asked you what CHURCH YOU GO TO?

I can only wonder what their reaction would have been if you told them you attended synagogue or mosque, not a church. That is a highly illegal question to ask a job applicant. I would have reported their lame asses.

This is really enlightening. I had no idea it was that bad out there. For the last fifteen years, I was in the corporate rat-race and the most I ever had to do was pass a drug test. I think even that is an invasion of privacy, but I can understand the employer's side to drug testing.

I dropped out of corporate life this year and have gone back to school full-time for a career change into nursing. I'm lucky enough not to have to work while I do this, but I was thinking about getting a part-time job in retail or something to have a little more fun money. I will DEFINTELY be checking the apps to see if they have a "morality/personal values" clause.

If they do, I'm going to be returning them to their corporate headquarters with a scathing letter, but not without letting the local branch having a piece of my mind first.

[xmas74]

68. This is a right to work state.

They pull all kinds of crap around here.
A friend of mine had a job interview where they asked her how many more children she was going to have.

[elehhhhna]

103. The proper answer to "what church do you go to" is:

"Could you repeat that? I'm recording this conversation."

[Lannes]

22. In this economy?

The worst in decades? That would be wrong.They should look at their work history and whether they were caught stealing from an employer.

[elehhhhna]

42. employers almost NEVER report embezzelment.

That goes for Fortune 100's to Mom & Pop shops, btw.

Hard to check unless there's a conviction.

[Lannes]

71. Thats what Im talking about

Whether they have been convicted of stealing,not just accused.

[elehhhhna]

77. I know. Employers almost NEVER press charges, thus no conviction to check.

So who's fault is THAT? Employers!

They could have you red-handed and if there's no police report, etc., there's no conviction. Employers MAY NOT (legally)say "Don't hire him, he stole from us" UNLESS there's been a conviction.

I managed temp accountants for years. My advice now? NEVER hire a temp. accountant/bookkeeper/payroll person, etc., unless you plan to monitor them FULLY. A temp can rip you off and gone through 3 subsequent assignments before you notice it. (BTW, we --the temp staffing co.--ALWAYS prosecuted, even if the client company would not.)

[Jamison]

23. Never

It's just unfair, plain & simple.

I wonder what's next...being turned down for a job for not having X amount of dollars in one's bank account?

[undeterred]

27. I think its unethical do do that unless you are in a job which handles $$

People have bad credit for millions of reasons other than being irresponsible, such as unemployment, obviously.

There was one company I worked at which required you to sign to allow it- they said it was because one of their state clients required it. I thought it was pretty lame to make everyone in the company sign it because of 3 people going to a state office once in a while.

[progressivebydesign]

59. Most people who steal at work don't need the money..

the things they find is that they are either:
1) personality problem. Can make ends meet but have a lopsided sense of entitlement and use the money to buy luxury items for themself and friends.
2) passive/aggressive. People who steal from their employers are often bitter about some aspect of the job and feel entitled to what they are stealing.

It is rare that someone steals from a company because they need more money to live on. A thief is a thief, regardless of credit history.

[Ilsa]

28. My brother has almost NO credit. He lives on what he makes

and I don't think he even has a credit card. He's never wanted one. He's purchased vehicles on credit, paid for dental work on credit (I shudder to think what the implicit interest was in that deal), and paid his apartment rent. He has always paid his bills. It really bugs me to think he would be denied credit or a job for not having enough debt!

[DavidFL]

30. A big HELL NO

Consumer finance companies already have a scary amount of control over people's lives in that they can report erroneous, false, incorrect, or sometimes just made up, information to people's credit reports, which in turn makes the person's life hell because it almost literally requires moving heaven and earth to get fixed. The credit reporting agencies do a horrible job ensuring whether the information they receive is correct or not, sometimes its placed on the wrong person's report, and their "investigations" often consist of calling the company who reported the information and asking whether it's correct. Often people have to end up hiring a lawyer in order to light a fire under agency's seat and get the problem fixed. And both entities basically have Congress as their trained seals, so they know nothing will be done in the near future to fix the real problems with these industries.

I say this somewhat in jest -- well, maybe not -- but if anything, there should be a reverse system where people can record problems they've had with these companies and CRAs that screwed up their credit and each complaint knocks a certain number of points off the company's and CRA's total score. As their scores fall, the company and CRA are progressively restricted from doing business, until they clean up their respective acts. And then, only 7-10 years later.

Further, I don't think the meme that a person's "good credit" is the be all end all of everything in life is being pushed by accident, but by design. What better way for corporations to keep a tight reign over the masses than to create an overreliance on credit reports for everything but what they were originally intended for, than create a system where they can make a person jump through hoops with the threat of making you a non-entity if you don't comply. It's totally ridiculous and I would love to see backlash and a movement of consumers against it.

[DemBeans]

35. no

For years, two items sufficed when employing someone who handled cash or easily liquidated inventory: a criminal background check, and verification of past employment. Thieves have patterns, and they'll almost always show up in one of the two above checks.

The credit check is doing little more than driving poor people further into the underground economy, which, in the end, probably presents more of a crime problem than it prevents.

[mermaid]

36. Hell Fucking NO!!!

No one here has yet mentioned the possibility of being the victim of IDENTITY THEFT...and having some criminal fuck up your credit...and then that costs you the ability to earn a fucking livelihood??

What horseshit!! You end up being victimized multiple times...first, by having your good name destroyed...second, by being saddled and harrassed for bills which you didn't create...three, you have a new part-time job now, just TRYING to straighten out the mess some asshat criminal just made of your life...four, you end up being denied the ability to make a livelihood...and so now your LEGITIMATE credit gets fucked up as well, because you can no longer pay the fucking bills!!

What the FUCK is this country coming to??

Jesus Christ, take me now, before it gets even MORE insane and intolerable down here!!!

I know for a fact when I die I am going to Heaven, because we are all spending our time in HELL right here on GWB's Earth.

[progressivebydesign]

60. I just had an experience with that..

I was about to pay my property taxes and doublechecked to see that the money was there. It wasn't. Somehow someone had gotten ahold of my account number and charged over 700 dollars worth of vitamin supplements.!!! The bank reversed the charge after waiting 30 days.. and I had to pay an additonal 200 bux in interest penalties while I waited for the money to pay the taxes.

[luvLLB]

89. Identity theft...my point exactly. I think the whole

credit report thing will have to go by the wayside. I just wont work anymore.

[Mizmoon]

44. I read about a guy who had filed for bankruptcy

he had to show his credit report to get a job at IBM. He still got the job, but he always felt bad that his boss knew about his long-ago money problems. I felt bad for him.

[patcox2]

101. There is a federal law prohibiting discrimination against bankruptcy debto

debtors, is the term.

[theboss]

47. Depends on the job

There are certain jobs where I would not want someone who was personally bad with money to do.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

83. That's My Take as Well

But in most jobs, bad credit should not be a barrier, IMO.

DTH

[theboss]

90. I agree

But I don't think I would want an accountant or attorney who had gone bankrupt. But an auto mechanic? Sure...why not?

[progressivebydesign]

52. No. I feel strongly against this.

Bad credit is no indicator of anything.Seriously. There will be the inevitable posts by some DUers that say proudly that THEY have never used a credit card, paid cash, perfect credit, etc. Okay... whatever.. For the REST of us mortals, bad credit can happen for a variety of reasons. It's not always that people are out charging vacations and boats and jewelry and big screen tvs. Sometimes.. it's just a matter of survival after a financial mishap (through no fault of one's own), like a health crisis, downsizing, divorce. Americans have unfortunately just accepted that we are no more than a number, the credit score, a number which is calculated in a way that is completely secret to us. People who need work don't always have great credit. Duh. That's why they need jobs.

My relative is trying to get into senior low income housing... because of a health issue for the past 10 years she has bad credit because of medical bills. Guess what? You can't get into housing designed for low income, disabled, seniors if your credit is not spotless. She has never missed rent payment..never evicted..nothing. Has glowing landlord references. Do you think that a credit score should keep her out of low income housing? Ironic, isn't it.

It's all just another way to turn us into a freakin' number. It makes life so easy for employers, landlords, and banks, to dismiss us immediately. It's all bullshit.

[RiDuvessa]

54. In the military,

You have to have a credit check for clearance purposes. If you have bad credit, it can preclude you from getting high-level clearances. This can limit the type of jobs you have. The idea is that you are more vulnerable to subversive elements if you are having money problems. Also, it supposedly speaks to you personal responsibility.

Also, you can be separated for "fiscal irresponsibility." Having too many unpaid bills etc. etc.

[Horse with no Name]

63. My little brother is in the Marines

Early in his career he bounced a check.
They threatened to put him in the brig for it.

[htuttle]

94. Yup, I got the boot before boot camp for being $2k in debt

..to the Student Loan corp, who'd gotten a judgement against me.

I needed a security clearance for my job (air force intel).

They apparently thought I would sell out my country for two grand. I told them that since I've been in debt for so long (had a lot to do with why I signed up in the first place, actually), that it didn't bother me. Therefore, I wouldn't do anything stupid just because I was in debt.

They didn't buy it.

Their loss. :shrug:

[Redstone]

58. This bullshit of anyone being able to check your credit rating

for any purpose they feel like, and use the information to make any decision they want to, is going to have to cease.

An insurance agent told me yesterday that with his company, if you have a good credit rating and two speeding tickets you get a lower rate than someone with a clean driving record and a lower credit score.

Does this make any fucking sense at all? No.

This doesn't affect me personally, because Ihave the kind of credit score that makes lenders of all kinds drool. But that doesn't make it any less wrong.

Redstone

[Kansas Wyatt]

75. Just another excuse to fuck people over.

With businesses crawling up our asses with microscopes, they cannot figure out why so many identities are stolen and defrauded.

[mermaid]

108. Yep...And The Companies

keep all that information in unsecure files, and then yours gets stolen by who knows what asshat, and the next thing you know, YOU'RE fucked!! And the company that allowed your info to be stolen??
Usually held harmless!!

Load of horseshit.

Recently, 32 million credit histories were stolen from a company my mom works for. That's potentially 32 million people who will now be victims of identity theft, and have their lives fucked up. But will the company be held accountable for having rotten security in place that allowed the info to be stolen in the first place?? Bet fucking not! They, like all other businesses...will always be "held harmless."

[Zorra]

76. Wow. That is really incredible. Basically every adult is required to

have vehicle insurance.

So this is a multiple-edged sword of a scam: Banks get to punish people with bad credit. Insurance companies get to make more money by charging people with bad credit higher rates for insurance. Folks with bad credit then have a more difficult time paying off their credit bills because they have to pay exorbitant amounts of money for the insurance which they are required to have. etc. And none of it is directly related to driving records, driving ability, or vehicular responsibility.

Wow. This almost seems to border on un-Constitutional.

[Gormy Cuss]

84. It would make sense

if credit ratings had been proven to corollate with other behaviors. The fact is, employers using credit ratings as a proxy for honesty and insurers using them as primary risk assessment tools are both based on anecdotal observation of outlier behavior, not scientifically proven connections. It's just a cheap way to make a decision. Many loyal hard working people with iffy credit get turned away in favor of manipulators who know how the game is played.
I will not allow a potential employer to do a credit check. If I really want the job I might allow the employee permission to access the score only but I'll be damned if I'm going to have my employee know my bank balances, mortgage amount, or where I shop unless it is directly relevant to the job. Such info can backfire even with good credit --- an insecure boss won't want to hire you if your assets put you in a position to quit without another job in the wings.
If I could get away without credit checks by insurance companies I would, but in California at least they all require it.

[dogday]

61. Ever occur to Employer that you have bad credit, because you

have no job? What a revelation? This is crap, plain crap.. Another way to help the helpless corporations get their money....

[Not_Giving_Up]

74. I have had several instances

where prospective employers ran my credit. Years ago, my credit was awful, and I didn't get jobs because of it. Can someone explain to me how I'm supposed to fix my credit without a job? I've never stolen or embezzled money from anyone, and certainly not from an employer.

[UdoKier]

81. No. And employer has no business knowing your credit history, IMO.

But that's just my opinion. Under the law, they can check. I don't think they have any business doing drug tests on people other than those jobs where safety is a factor.

I think a person's criminal record is relevant, though. I wouldn't want to hire a thief to run my cash register...

[river2]

87. It depend on what you're asking for - nt

[killbotfactory]

97. being out of a job makes maintaining good credit near impossible

unless you want to keep poor people poor, then no.

[napi21]

100. It depends on what job.

I had a boss, who was CFO of our company, who was fired because his house was about to be sold for nonpayment of real estate taxes.

The rational' was if he couldn't manage his own money, we can't trust him with the company money.

I think, if the job requires some kind of money management, then an employee's credit rating is pertinent.

[elehhhhna]

104. GW probably has excellent credit scores, and he's not so good with $$$..

[HEyHEY]

110. Someone is seriously doing this?

That's terrible.

Your credit has nothing to do with wether or not you are a hard worker.

[dogday]

113. Let's Not Stop At Credit Reports, Let's Get Dr.'s Records and see

if they have any illness that would cause them to miss work. The corporations act like they have all the rights and we have none. This is a slippery slope of the worst kind. The minute we allowed drug testing, we opened up the door for corps to rape our private lives just to get a job...HOpe they never start using DNA