War on terrrr comes uncomfortably close -- what should I do?

[HamdenRice]

The day before yesterday, an old friend from college called, upset and beside himself, because a close friend of his had been detained in Bush's war on terrrrr. My friend is a jazz musician, here in New York. We went to college together over two decades ago, and we had recently reconnected in late winter during one of his shows. My step son is a budding jazz musician, and I took him to see my friend Salim, lead his jazz band at a jazz club in Harlem.

Salim is also a professor of music, and hence, the club is always packed with eager music students who are allowed to sit in on sets after midnight. That night, during an intermission, Salim talked to my step son about chord changes and how to prepare himself as a musician, and after the intermission, Salim called my step son (only 15) up to the band stand to sit in and improvise during a blues number. My step son was absolutely thrilled, and after successfully playing, he had such an amazing resolution to practice. We went to one of Salim's jazz lofts a few weekends ago as well.

Salim called me a few evenings ago, frantic, because a jazz bass player he knows had been detained as a terrorist. You may have read the news about a doctor in Florida and a "martial arts expert" in the Bronx, New York, being arrested for pledging loyalty to bin Laden. The so-called "martial arts expert" actually is a world renown jazz bassist, Tarik Shah, with whom Salim was familiar through the small community of serious jazz musicians in New York. Salim wanted to know where the arraignment might be, and I advised him that it sounded like it would be in the US District Court for the Southern District of New York.

The newspaper accounts paint a chilling account of an Islamic extremist who has used jazz music career as a cover for terrorist proclivities. But it also hints that the entire conspiracy was set up by a government informer in a sting.

This morning, when we woke up, we turned on the TV to watch NY1, the local all news cable station. There was Salim in front of the federal courthouse explaining to news crews that it seems to be impossible that Tarik Shah could be a terrorist. He had never discussed political Islam, but was well known as a great musician, who has played with the legendary Betty Carter and Abey Lincoln.

This evening, we will discuss a lot of difficult issues, that I wish I didn't have to discuss with a 15 year old in early 21st century America. Given the administration's Orwellian desire to put everyone under suspicion, can we go to a jazz performance or a jazz loft put together by a friend who has dared stand up for an accused terrorist? What if the penalty for going to Salim's jazz lofts is not being able to fly, because through guilt by association -- association with someone who has stood up for an accused terrorist -- we may all be on no fly lists? Will the jazz loft be under surveillance by the Department of Homeland Security?

These are very strange days we live in.

[MountainLaurel]

1. Keee-rist

Keep us updated, will you?

[The Magistrate]

2. An Interesting Account, Sir

Perhaps you could enlighten me on an element that has seemed absent from the reports on this matter: did any of these persons arrested ever speak in their purported "material assistance" to anyone who was not an agent of the U.S. government?

[HamdenRice]

5. To the best of my knowledge this was purely a sting ...

that is to say, the person instigating the proposed assistance to al qaeda was a government informant. But they did not know that, so if the press reports are correct, they were offering assistance to what they thought were real terrorists.

But whether the press reports (undoubtedly based on press releases by the US Attorney) are in fact accurate is something we have to wait to learn.

[The Magistrate]

Thank You, Sir

That had been my impression as well. Such manufactured crime sits ill with me, and seems a damned poor use of resources....

[leftofthedial]

3. first, they came for the bassists

keep us posted.

These are outrageous times. Outrageous.

[HamdenRice]

6. I don't mean to make light of this, but when the come for the ...

violists, we are in real trouble!

[SmokingJacket]

15. Actually... we're in treble!

An irresistable bad joke, but I nominated this thread.

They have to keep arresting "terrists" -- even if they can't find any. I hope we've hit bottom now.

[HamdenRice]

22. I can't believe you are making me laugh under these horrible circumstances

But thanks, I needed a chuckle.

[Jim Sagle]

39. A very bass joke if you ask me.

;-)

[Karenina]

31. BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

MY KEYBOARD!!! :rofl:

First they came for the bass players... the FOUNDATION of the rhythm section... Then the violists, OH, THE INTONATION...

It's good to laugh because the reality is appalling.

Many musicians here are eschewing tours to the U.S. The stench of fascism is so easily detected.

Tarik Shah played with Abbey Lincoln, (pick up a copy of "People In Me" to hear where she comes from). If he had a murderous bone in his body, he'd have long since MELTED INTO SLAG from his exposure to her. ;-) This is a VERY disturbing development.

[Stephanie]

4. You know who sounded unconvinced by the charges? Bloomberg

Did you hear his statement today?

[HamdenRice]

12. I had not heard this -- what did he say ?

I will look for it on NY1.

[Stephanie]

19. posted below

[BurtWorm]

14. No, what did Bloomberg say?

(My gut knew something stank about this.)

[Stephanie]

21. here

It wasn't made any clearer by the U.S. attorney's office releasing the complaint whether Shah and Sabir were terrorists in the making or just talk.

"I don't know if they're terrorists," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. "They clearly have said that they wanted to destroy our way of life and hurt the people of America. And if that's your definition of terrorism, I guess that certainly qualifies. How serious it was, whether it's just two misguided people ... whether they really had ties to al-Qaida, that we will have to see as the investigation goes forward."

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/nyc-terr0531,0,1674190.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

[progressoid]

28. He seemed a bit vague to me

"They clearly have said that they wanted to destroy our way of life and hurt the people of America.

Hell, Bush wants to destroy our way of life, does that make him a terrorist?

And then, "And if that's your definition of terrorism, I guess that certainly qualifies... GUESS? Now we have to guess?

[Stephanie]

29. well I heard it first on the radio

and his tone made him seem a little dubious about it

[progressoid]

30. Well, good.

The whole thing sounds dubious.

[HamdenRice]

34. I think what Bloomers is getting at is this:

That these guys may have had very bad thoughts, but until the war on tourism, that has not been a crime. He is saying that, yes, these guys said some bad, bitter, even violent, things about America, but that is not, or should not be, a crime -- as long as it's all talk and no action.

Think of all the times people even on DU have wished evil outcomes for evil political leaders. On the one hand, the Secret Service is likely to investigate public ill wishes for dear leader; on the other hand, is that really a crime?

[wicket]

7. Thanks for the info

Kicked and nominated

:kick:

[gman16]

8. Interesting

On a local TV report they interviewed a neighbor of the guy who lives in Brooklyn and he stated:
'everyone knew the FBI was watching someone on the block, we just did not know who it was'
Now, if the neighbor knew this, how is it that the target didn't know it?
Sounds to me like a set-up.

[babylonsister]

16. Maybe the 'target' knew but had nothing to hide. ??? nt

[Mr Rabble]

9. Well, I love conflict with authorities

so I would probably go. After all, this is still America, right?

Of course I dont have a son to think about, so I dont have your perspective.

It is incidents like these which will eventually be the catalyst for change.

[bicentennial_baby]

10. I heard this story on the radio last night

Doesn't sound good for him, that's for sure. I think it was on ABC Radio.

[Just Me]

11. That's,...very disconcerting.

I can understand your reaction.

[BurtWorm]

13. That story sounded very fishy to me.

It sounded like a set-up. The whole case is based on what these guys were made to say to an informant and an undercover agent. That stinks.

[HamdenRice]

17. Here's the really pathetic part about living through the war on terrr

The main reason the musicians went to the court house to protest is that they didn't want Shah to be simply "disappeared" into Guantanamo or some other place, as an enemy combantant, which the Bush administration has actually done to at least one US citizen.

BTW, Shah is an African-American Muslim, so there is no country to send him to for "rendition."

[Stephanie]

18. Here's what Bloomberg said:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/nyc-terr0531,0,1674190.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

It wasn't made any clearer by the U.S. attorney's office releasing the complaint whether Shah and Sabir were terrorists in the making or just talk.

"I don't know if they're terrorists," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. "They clearly have said that they wanted to destroy our way of life and hurt the people of America. And if that's your definition of terrorism, I guess that certainly qualifies. How serious it was, whether it's just two misguided people ... whether they really had ties to al-Qaida, that we will have to see as the investigation goes forward."

[wakeme2008]

23. If in fact they really did say as Bloomberg said

""They clearly have said that they wanted to destroy our way of life and hurt the people of America."

then they are in deep dodo....

[BurtWorm]

32. They're already in deep shit.

The question is do they really deserve to be there, or were they entrapped? This govt. would be happy to keep them in deep shit whether they truly deserve to be there or not.

[HamdenRice]

36. They were entrapped, but ...

given the circumstances, I suspect they will be railroaded for a long time.

[Stephanie]

38. Bush needs a trophy - can't be bothered with Osama bin Forgotten

Much easier to entrap an American-born Muslim jazz musician. Something to show the people that we're winning the war on terra.

[BurtWorm]

42. I suspect you're right.

The suspicion of terrorism is like the kiss of death. There's a whole built in supply of talking heads who will convict you in the marketplace of ideas before a word is heard out of your mouth. The line will always be to anyone skeptical about this operation, "Why do you support terrorism? Do you hate this country?"

[Horse with no Name]

20. I don't know what to say I would do

because I am not in your situation.
I'm sorry you are though. However, I had an opportunity to be in a political activist group that consisted mainly of Muslims.
I attended one meeting and then decided to disassociate myself because of fear for my family.
I don't believe they were advocating terrorist activities, but they were angry.
I fear that this cabal will round people up in time. The terrorist watch lists will be the first manifests they use to do so.
If it were me, I'd advocate flying under the radar a little.

[HamdenRice]

24. I think you are right ...

As cliche as it sounds, I think they are making it seem "OK" to most Americans to round up certain groups. Then they will move on to others.

In fact, at the jazz lofts and jazz clubs, there is a lot of "artsy" political discussion, that is overwhelmingly anti-Bush. Now that everyone in that scene thinks he is being watched or phone tapped, this will completely dampen those discussions.

That's the real goal here, isn't it?

[sui generis]

25. write an LTTE on this to the NY Times

that's the first thing

the second thing is to hold this trial in the public eye, with everyone who knows anything about him telling what they know and qualifying it. It's exactly what the government does NOT want, but doesn't have a choice about in a free society. If he is a terrorist I imagine the gummint will love talking to the wingnut who claims he knew him from terrorist kindergarden back in the old country, otherwise they better play nice.

Unless they're manufacturing evidence, it sounds highly unlikely that a jazz musician would have the kind of interests that intersect political and holy wars in any meaningful way.

It is possible he was in a "sting" where some zealous agent got him to confess that if he were given a chance he might not pick the American side to support.

I would do and say the same if we invaded Europe and you can quote me on that.

[HamdenRice]

26. Great advice -- one thing, there is no old country ...

He's an African American who grew up in Islam here. The next group to target as the expand from foreign born Muslims.

[sui generis]

27. heh heh heh and us gay married terrorists

I'm going to knock the shit out of someone with a spatula and my gym bag.

[bobbieinok]

33. target/attack well-known professors, artists. actors, writers, etc

this makes the rest of us think 'their status didn't protect them; guess I'd better not say or do anything'

[HamdenRice]

35. You are sooooo right...

At the last jazz loft, there was a slide show of progressive images and a few announcements about meeting and rallies. Even if we might agree that the announcement, "there is a meeting of the Communications Workers of America in New Jersey next Saturday," is not terrorism, are you willing to pay $30,000 to a criminal lawyer to get yourself out of jail if some over zealous, RW, ignorant, 26 year old, repug prosecutor decides that it is, and has you arrested???

It's called chilling free speech.

[snot]

37. Here's your answer

United we stand, divided we fall.

If every person who disagrees with Orwellian authority REFUSES to be silent, REFUSES to back off, and instead STANDS UP against them, then we will win quickly and easily.

It is only because so many have found it easier to be silent, back off, and do nothing, that the Orwellians have gotten so far.

We MUST speak out, we MUST show our support for the oppressed, and we MUST act, before it's too late.

(Otherwise, they'll simply pick us off one by one.)

[EFerrari]

40. I'm sorry your friend is being abused in this way.

My bro is a jazz guy, I guess I better warn him not to blow that horn too loudly when alone in the company of government agents.

We can't allow them to frighten us or they win.

[Robeson]

41. This type of thing has happened before.....

...if you haven't already, read Walter Bernstein's "Inside Out" about the blacklists in America. McCarthyism has returned. This time, in the form of fighting "terror".

[Swamp Rat]

43. kick and recommended! n/t

:mad: