So maybe I'm not really "liberal"?

[lildreamer316]

I just finished watching Penn & Teller's Bullshit episode about colleges. Yes, I know they are more on the conserviative side sometimes; I have my points where I agree with them and when I don't but I love the show anyway. However, when they said that many colleges are very "leftist" and that PC was rampant at Democratic-led colleges, it made me question again the definition of being liberal and Democratic. I believe in free speech. I do not believe in discrimmination(duh). I do believe that things like Medicare and a national health plan are a good idea. etc. etc. I also believe government should stay out of our personal life--I STRONGLY believe this. Exactly where does this put me on the scale? I know some of this is Libretarian. Any help? I'm confused. I don't mind being a little of both, but maybe I am more one than another? Why is Libertarian associated with the right? Sorry if these are dumb questions...I didn't graduate college}(

[Radical Activist]

1. Don't listen to how conservatives define the left.

Their intent is to confuse people and make them disassociate themselves with liberalism. I don't see anything you posted that indicates you might be conservative at all.

[serryjw]

2. This will answer your question

www.politicalcompass.org/

[lildreamer316]

11. Here we go:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.46

I'm down in the lower left quadrant smack in the middle. Thanks for the help!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

23. Sounds like you're a Libertarian Socialist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialist

If you want to know more.

[Catma]

3. Libertarians

are associated with the right because of their hands of government policy in dealing with economics.

[Extend a Hand]

4. this cool little quiz

will show you where you are compared to other people
when it was posted a while back most of of the DU'ers posting were in the lower left quadrant of the grid
www.politicalcompass.org.

I'm looking for a link to that thread.
I was a -7.?? social; -5.?? economic.

[jobycom]

5. Dump the labels, believe what you believe

I hate labels. They force people into beliefs they may not otherwise hold. If I'm a liberal, i have to believe a set of ideas and rules, if I'm a vegetarian, or an atheist, or a Texan or a southerner or a man I have to be and act and believe a certain way.

Beieve what you believe, vote for who you feel is right, and follow your heart. Let statisticians worry about what to call you.

[Selatius]

6. You sound like a libertarian leftist to me

There's a crapload of those types in colleges. Libertarians dislike the idea of government inside your home, but they're leftist in that they understand that social programs and regulation of the markets do serve a purpose but that they can be done in a way that doesn't violate civil rights or be done in a way that preserves one's freedom.

I will readily admit I take libertarian leftism very far out. I'm an anarcho-socialist. I'd like to see what is known as "voluntary socialism" where people freely come together and decide to pool their resources of their own accord without state intervention. It's quite libertarian in nature, but state democratic socialism is okay with me with a few conditions. I'm less happy with state socialism, but I'd rather ally myself with state socialists than with Republicans any day of the week provided they do it in a democratic fashion.

My only criticism is that state power has often been used to persecute and crush people like me with such ideas. As a result, I have a hefty fear of consolidating power into the hands of a few who get to decide all of our fates.

While I do realize that systems like Social Security and Medicare are good, I also realize that it isn't voluntary either. That's the thing I chafe against a little bit because they are ultimately coercive in nature.

[not systems]

7. No real big L Libertarian believes in a "national health plan" or...

Medicare.

You may be a libertarian or just believe in liberty and freedom.

To find out what you are try:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

I'm a center left anarchist myself.

[Fone Book]

18. I did that too

I'm (-8.88,-5.54).

I guess that makes me a democratic socialist or something.

[Selatius]

30. You're definitely some form of libertarian socialist

Although both democratic socialists and anarcho-socialists (libertarian socialist) usually advocate democratic means to reform, anarcho-socialists tend to be socialists with a very large libertarian bent who often advocate change through education and direct popular organization of people as opposed to seeking state power to legislate change.

Democratic socialists are usually more mild as far as libertarianism goes, so they are a little more comfortable seeking state power to bring about change. Most of them usually advocate change through representative democracy, hence the term "democratic socialist" as opposed to those who butcher their way to power, the authoritarian socialists like Stalin.

Anarcho-socialists are usually more direct. They usually advocate a model much closer to direct democracy. The other usually tries to work within the system. They advocate a model closer to representative democracy instead.

The entire school of socialism itself is divided between state socialists and anarcho-socialists and all the shades of gray between the two. I consider myself an anarcho-socialist, btw. This is me:

Left/Right: -8.88
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.03

As you can see, I'm a huge libertarian.

We go by many names. Anarcho-socialist, libertarian socialist, liberal socialist, and simply anarchist refer to the same ideology. Anarcho-syndicalism is a subset of libertarian socialism that advocates change by utilizing worker unions. Everyone else in this camp is less specific on the point. Enjoy your company!

[jobycom]

8. I'm curious, though, on the PC thing

How did that fit in with the rest of what you said? Were you agreeing with them that it somehow limits free speech?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Much of the fuss about "political correctness" is based on a

few examples that were either jokes to begin with ("vertically challenged" for "short") or were invented by well-meaning people supposedly to spare the feelings of groups of people who were not offended by the original terms anyway (e.g. "hearing impaired" for "deaf.")

The rest of the fuss about "political correctness" comes from bigots who get mad when people point out their bigotry.

The original meaning of "political correctness" on the left was insistence on following an ideology to the letter, even some other course of action was more practical. For example, when I was in the Central America movement in the early 1980s, a Marxist member of the group argued that it was not "politcally correct" to cooperate with the Catholic anti-interventionists, even though Catholic priests and nuns were being murdered in El Salvador.

In the late 1980s, Republicans started using the term to bash anyone who called them on their racism and sexism.

[ElkHunter]

9. Rest easy...

...most good liberal, free speech lovin', card carring ACLU members also have concerns about 'political correctness.' As a matter of fact, if the ACLU can be defined as a 'liberal organization' then ACLU liberals are actually the antithesis of political correctness.

And if you believe in things like Medicare, a national health plan, and Social Security then you are certainly no libertarian.

[NYCGirl]

10. An old saying: "Libertarians are Republicans who don't want

their drugs taken away."

:evilgrin:

[Singular73]

12. I know some of this is Libretarian.

Not at all. Libertarianism is based upon no social programs at all.

[lildreamer316]

13. See, that's what I thought.

But I do like some of the ideas they espouse. Guess I need to do a little more research.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Here's the story on Libertarians:

Their bumper sticker message is "Libertarians: pro-choice on everything."

But that's not true. While they overlap with the left in their espousal of choice on reproductive and sexual issues, drug laws, assisted suicide, and other strictly behavioral issues, their economic "pro-choice" stance amounts to "back to the nineteenth century." They maintain the fiction that business owners and employers have equal power and that "the market" (that great all-knowing god) will punish any business that sells or makes a shoddy product or endangers its workers or the public. (Yeah, whatever.)

In their minds, the only legitimate functions of the government are maintaining a military and maintaining a criminal justice system. Yes, for all their talk of "freedom," the only government functions they want to fund are the coercive ones, the ones that "keep people in line."

That's because any government that followed a strictly Libertarian program would see skyrocketing crime rates and riots in the streets as those left behind by the great god Market found that there was no, zero, not any social safety net.

[Extend a Hand]

24. I don't know...

libertarians also believe that shareholders of corporations should be *personally* responsible for the actions of the company...

this one idea could level the playing field alot

though personally, I still think there are some things (like health insurance) that would be better and more efficiently handled by government.

[kenny blankenship]

14. Just remember:

before there were "libertarians" there were civil-libertarians.
Let's not let the right hijack the terms, libertarian and liberty.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. before there were civil libertarians

there were libertarians and they were and are 'left' anarchists. This term is still used in europe, where 'american libertarians', as in the Libertarian Party are 'Liberals' as in economic free trade small government liberalism and american 'liberals' are 'social democrats'.

[Fone Book]

17. Take your political compass!

http://politicalcompass.org

I'm 8.88 to the left on economics, 5.54 down on social issues.

So I guess I'm an extremist?

[ElkHunter]

20. Took my political compass...

...Economic: Left -6.50 Social: Libertarian -4.05

I guess I'm even to the left of Ghandi. But I can live with that.

[MisterP]

19. are you familiar with the CATO Institute?

P&T are with them, and the Institute receives millions from chemical, cigarette, oil, fast-food, and other corps, and repeats their lines. The book "Trust Us, We're Experts" shows how these "independent" PR gangs provide Limbaugh-style talking points (e.g., DDT bans killed millions--never mind that not only is this pulled out of Dow's rear but also that DDT was banned only in a few countries, mosquitoes become resistant, etc., etc.)

[Dr Ron]

21. Liberals--Open To Various Ideas

If we go by any single definition of liberal, must others here will be excluded.

There are many ideas which might be considered liberal, and some might even be mutually exclusive.

There are some ideas which most will share, such as support for free speech and other civil liberties.

Liberals may vary as to the role of the government, but at least will support programs such as Medicare where the case for their need is quite clear.

There are many possible ways to change, and liberals may not agree. Another common characteristic is being open to new ideas.

The conservative control of the government and news media makes many of the differences in opinion between various liberals less important. Many of us at DU might disagree on what we ultimately believe should be done politically, but these disagreements are trivial compared to the need to stop the rightward direction we are now in. If we manage to move the country in a more liberal direction, then we can argue over exactly what to do.

[hvn_nbr_2]

22. Libertarians ARE what Republicans CLAIM to be.

All the "small government" horseshit that Republicans spew is what Libertarians actually believe.

Republicans believe in getting government "off the backs" of giant corporations and getting government into the pants of individuals, and into their bedrooms, libraries, bookstores, wombs, etc. Personal liberty is a liberal (note the root word) value that Republicans like to talk about theoretically, but hate in actual practice. Some of the paleolithic conservatives like Goldwater believed in individual liberty, but only a tiny handful of conservative Republicans today do.

[Texas_Kat]

25. Find a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand and read it

Though she refused to call herself a libertarian, (and the libertarians weren't fond of her either) the ideas she espoused were the epitome of their philosophy.

Once you've read it, don't jump to conclusions. Consider the implications of the society she advocates before deciding if you agree with her philosophy.

It is often personally seductive, but disasterous for the community.

[lildreamer316]

27. See, now

I knew I should have read it before I sold my 1st edition (!!$$) but the ppl I knew who espoused her disgusted me so much I was turned off to the book. I'll try again....

[Texas_Kat]

31. The libertarian model pretty much seems to say

"I can take care of myself" the rest of you are on your own.

Smug, Imso. Abridged Dictionary of Political Labels. Confusion, MS: Iconoclast Press 1889

[leftofthedial]

26. you are a terrorist

who hates us for our freedoms

[lildreamer316]

28. Oh. Glad to know that.

:evilgrin:

[leftofthedial]

29. you're either with us or against us

don't confuse "civil liberties" with libertarians.

Libertarians are primarily interested in their own property rights, not in civil liberties.

"Republicans who have smoked pot" is a pretty good description.

You sound pretty liberal to me . . .